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Guest newname,

In the process of providing an “accurate” English translation of mgr’s claim in book 10, namely, that the decree/edict originated with and was commanded by---THE SPIRIT of CHRIST---it would be greatly appreciated if you would be kind enough to provide an “accurate” English translation of the decree/edict itself.

Here is mgr’s original said decree/edict (two pages---page one: 002.bmp & page two: 003.bmp):

002.bmp

003.bmp

Edited book 10 (between articles 17 & 18).docx

Accompanying mgr’s originals above is the preceding page (Edited book 10 between articles 17 & 18.docx) from the---published 1928 Russian [second] edition with dhs’ editing “markings.”  Please NOTE dhs’ “marking”---SECTION MISSING---between articles 17 and 18 on this page, which SECTION MISSING is of course, mgr’s originals above, confirmed by dhs himself in his 1971 work copy in his preface to this particular section (seen in mgr's originals of the decree/edict above)---

Quote

"In the originals of M.G. Rudometkin this section is found in the tenth (10) book, between the seventeenth (17) and eighteenth (18) chapters.”

Guest newname may wish to ask himself the question---what does this say about the published 1928 Russian edition from which dhs translated the published English editions (1983; 2005)?

If he is honest with himself, he will see and need to admit that obviously the published 1928 Russian edition was altered/edited, and some sections [of mgr’s originals] were entirely omitted (as seen in this one example of many) by spin doctors prior to dhs’ involvement.  The purpose of dhs’ 1971 work copy, expressed in his own words on the cover page of his 1971 work copy, confirms this:

005.bmp

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“These pages are the completed efforts of D a n i e l  H. Shubin to compare and correct the published writings of the prophet Maxim Gabrilich Rudometkin with the existing available original manuscripts, in order that a complete error-free copy would exist for those desiring to read and study. (DHS) September 1971”

dhs’ mission was to---compare---the published 1928 Russian [second] edition with---the existing available original manuscripts, and correct---the published writings of mgr, which of course, was the published 1928 Russian [second] edition (shown on the cover page of dhs’ 1971 work copy above), on which dhs made his own editing markings, and from which he translated his “compared and corrected” edited version into English.  It is also obvious that dhs’ translated English editions are not “complete error-free” copies by any means, as they too, have been altered/edited and the---SECTION MISSING---text has been completely omitted.

So when Guest newname makes reference to the published 1928 Russian [second] edition and/or the published English edition(s) (1983; 2005) as proof text for his argument(s), as he did below---

Quote

3) In the following Article 18 (within the published text - MGR 10:18)....[as stated in the originals....]

---it becomes obvious that he does not know of what he speaks since what he speaks of is not, repeat, not mgr’s unaltered/unedited originals, but the altered/edited forgery that is the published 1928 Russian [second] edition and/or the published English editions (1983; 2005).

But translating mgr’s originals above is an opportunity for Guest newname to actually learn the truth concerning mgr’s claims, including but not limited to, the claim in question---that the decree/edict in book 10 came from and was commanded by---THE SPIRIT of CHRIST.  And if courageous enough, be willing to compare mgr's claim and the details of the decree/edict with THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, and share his findings with the readers here on this forum.

However, unless Guest newname is truly a believer and follower of---THE TRUTH/JESUS (John 14:6a), and HIS SPIRIT (THE SPIRIT of CHRIST aka THE SPIRIT of TRUTH) resides within him, he too, like his predecessor spin doctors aka so-called “elders” (including the “elder-by-default,” dhs), and his maximist brethren---will deny/reject, continue to make excuses, and attempt to camoflauge the ugly facts concerning their beloved hero/leader/mentor/shepherd, etc., etc., etc.---to the extent of disbelieving, spinning, and suppressing the truths of THE HOLY SCRIPTURES ([Western] Protestant and/or [Eastern] Orthodox [minus the Apocrypha]). 

 

P.S.  Here is a bit of background info from book 10 that may provide Guest newname with some insight into the decree/edict above.  These sections are not as lengthy as the decree/edict (with the exception of book 10, article 15, beginning with verse 8---which is three pages of mgr's originals), and shouldn't prove to be a problem for Guest newname to read and provide "accurate" translations of these---SECTION(S) MISSING---into English before he embarks on doing so with the decree/edict itself.

Here, in the following format, is:

1)  Book 10, article 10, verses 1-2

011.bmp --- altered/edited 1928 Russian [second] edition with dhs' editing "marking"---SECTION MISSING* (*mgr's originals)

005.bmp --- mgr's originals

2)  Book 10, article 11, verse 6 & article 12, verse 1

012.bmp --- altered/edited 1928 Russian [second] edition with dhs' editing "marking"---SECTION MISSING* (*mgr's originals)

013.bmp --- mgr's originals

3) Book 10, article 13, verses 2-5

014.bmp --- altered/edited 1928 Russian [second] edition with dhs' editing "marking"---SECTION MISSING* (*mgr's originals)

015.bmp --- mgr's originals

4) Book 10, article 15, verses 8-10

016.bmp --- altered/edited 1928 Russian [second edition] with dhs' editing "marking"---SECTION MISSING* (*mgr's originals)

017.bmp --- mgr's originals

018.bmp --- mgr's originals

001.bmp --- mgr's originals

Happy reading and translating, Guest newname....looking forward to your "accurate" translation(s) into English.

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This has to be one of the top ten jokes of the century---

Quote

I have to admit, I'm puzzled by this. How are these comments "disparaging (derogatory)" in any form? The fact is, you do indeed have "your own kind." Your kind are former disgruntled Spiritual Molokans, who continue to misrepresent, spew falsehoods, twist, misconstrue and slander the faith that they were born in, effectively taking the place of those of the Orthodox persuasion back in mother Russia, as well as the Apostate (there's that word again) Molokans in the early history of Прыгунства, who turned in their own people based on false/made up reports. The definition for the word "Apostate," when used as an adjective is: Abandoning a religious or political belief or principle. Do you deny that you have abandoned the faith of your forefathers? It is clear by your writing on this forum that you have, and not only that, you have embraced an American form of Protestant Christianity in its place. Therefore your kind are indeed -- APOSTATES.

Guest newname must be jesting---“the faith that they were born in….abandoned the faith of your forefathers”?

If that is the case, Simeon Uklein and every person who is a member of the molokan community and considers himself “molokan,” including Guest newname, are "apostates" who have “abandoned the faith of their forefathers,” namely---Russian Orthodoxy.

And according to Guest newname’s way of thinking, if a Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, Mormon, etc., who was “born into” his respective belief system (Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, Mormonism, etc.), but at some point in life, accepts JESUS as LORD and SAVIOR, is born again by THE HOLY SPIRIT/SPIRIT of TRUTH, thereby converting to CHRISTianity, he is an “apostate.”

Really….Guest newname’s intelligence has been overestimated---he’s beginning to sound like f/m/p even though a tad more articulate.

Goodness, the foolish ideas maximisti foster and entertain….simply incredible.

 

P.S.  BTW, those "sinistral molokans," as Guest newname's beloved hero/leader/mentor/shepherd referred to them in his memoirs, were those individuals who opposed (and did the right thing to report him to the authorities) the pedophilic megalomaniac's lewd/sinful behavior and demands made upon the young "chaste maidens" and their parents (threatening and cursing both the daughters and parents if they didn't comply with his wanton ways) on whom he cast his eyes for his fantasy fiefdom aka "New Israel" aka his "Zion" which he attempted to model after King Solomon along with his multiple wives and concubines.  That---was the reason for the authorities' involvement and consequently, his incarceration.  He went to prison and "suffered" for---women, two in particular (his first two "spiritual wives") that he himself names in his memoirs---his "first" wife---Marafina, and his "second" wife---Stenya/Sterafina (the so-called "prophetess"---if so, who was Marafina?  Another "prophetess"?  And then there were---Varya, Leksya, Vasilisa, Manya, and Grunya---"prophetesses" as well?), as he so lovingly refers to them in his unaltered/unedited memoirs---until---they (and the other [new] seven girls) married normal young men (whom he referred to as "sons of satan incarnate")---then all hell broke loose (literally), and this too, he spewed in filthy language in his unaltered/unedited memoirs, cursing them, their husbands (whom he called "sons of satan incarnate"), and their children.  And to his perverted way of thinking, he believed that in his incarceration [which in truth, was for his lascivious behavior which he attempted to masquerade as "spiritual," and terrorizing families], he was "suffering" for---the truth.  It is also the reason he was livid with his two so-called "prophets," Emilian and Fetice, who allowed the girls to marry normal young men in his absence, especially after his specific instructions to save them for him since he was their "eternal husband"---all this and more contained within the unaltered/unedited memoirs of an arrogant narcissistic pedophile aka mgr. 

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Here is text from both---mgr’s unedited/unsanitized originals, and---dhs’ “sanitized” second edition of his translation of the 1928 Russian edition---for comparison:

This is book 4, article 11, from the beginning---in mgr’s [unedited/unsanitized] originals:

Quote

It is also necessary to remind you, my beloved wives, Marafina and Sterafina, that you are my own bone and flesh. God has joined us and no man can separate us. Stand upon this foundation. I am your eternal husband. Seek in no one else a husband for yourself. Where can you find anyone who can separate our eternal wedlock, inspired union and my precious love? Would he escape alive from my flaming hot jealousy over you, which you yourselves heard with your own ears? I said unto you in Alexanderpol, before all the people, that you are my wives. Because I was twice born, I married twice. I showed you to all the people saying, ‘This is my first wife, named Marafina, and this is my second wife, named Sterafina.’ I said this by inspiration and not of myself. You must remember this and tell all others about it. You are to say, ‘We are his wives eternally and his queens for the grace-filled 1000-year kingdom of Christ on earth.’ Not man, but God himself shall reveal, throughout every place under heaven, this, our new enlightenment.” (4.11, from the beginning, mgr)

And here is book 4, article 11, from the beginning---in dhs’ edited/sanitized second edition (2005) of his 1928 Russian edition translation from Russian into English (black book):

Quote

Also I remind you, my beloved, that you are of one flesh and bone with me.  God Himself has joined us, man cannot sunder us; stand firmly upon the one foundation.  Do not look for someone else in another feature to sunder our eternal tie of spiritual union and precious love.  God Himself, and not a man, will reveal our radiance to all under heaven.”

How about that omission and revamping job---everything in RED in mgr's originals has been entirely omitted, and the partial sentences in RED in dhs' perversion [of mgr's originals] have been reconstructed to give them a completely different meaning than that of the author. 

Deceitful, deceitful, deceitful---shameful, shameful, shameful....  

 

P.S.  If “regurgitation” is what Guest newname thinks of his beloved hero/leader/mentor/shepherd’s [unaltered/unedited original] memoirs---okay---although it is a tad disrespectful and hypocritical of his faithful one to do so, but again, his prerogative.

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ADDENDUM to the above previous post---

Almost forgot---here is a copy of the page containing book 4, article 11 from the altered/edited 1928 Russian edition (001.bmp), on which page are dhs' own editing "markings"---and again, please NOTE dhs' marking---SECTION MISSING---specifically, verse two (2) under article 11, which---SECTION MISSING---of course, is mgr's original (002.bmp) for Guest newname's "accurate" translation into English.

001.bmp

002.bmp

 

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Without reservations well done. 

I sincerely pray and hope that those who rely on a heart felt desire too always be in a search for Sola Scriptura Biblical Truth to enrich their Spiritual life are open to dreadful sin that DHS has perpetuated on the Molokan Community. 

As you seeming say DHS's original mission to hold to the original text of MGR's writhing's turned into the sin that he continues too perpetuate to this day.  Unless he confesses and asks for forgiveness for this grievous sin, in death he will receive his just reward for its results. 

I am curious to know if you have the originals in photograph form, especially of interest to me Book 4 article 11?  If not, I have a great deal of much of the originals which may contain Book 4 article 11 and would gladly share them with you, if you desire.

last/least/foundinline ©™® (where it cannot be proclaimed enough "Yeshua Hamashiach is Lord to the glory of God the Father")

 

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:13 PM, anonymous said:

Here is text from both---mgr’s unedited/unsanitized originals, and---dhs’ “sanitized” second edition of his translation of the 1928 Russian edition---for comparison:

This is book 4, article 11, from the beginning---in mgr’s [unedited/unsanitized] originals:

And here is book 4, article 11, from the beginning---in dhs’ edited/sanitized second edition (2005) of his 1928 Russian edition translation from Russian into English (black book):

How about that omission and revamping job---everything in RED in mgr's originals has been entirely omitted, and the partial sentences in RED in dhs' perversion [of mgr's originals] have been reconstructed to give them a completely different meaning than that of the author. 

Deceitful, deceitful, deceitful---shameful, shameful, shameful....  

 

P.S.  If “regurgitation” is what Guest newname thinks of his beloved hero/leader/mentor/shepherd’s [unaltered/unedited original] memoirs---okay---although it is a tad disrespectful and hypocritical of his faithful one to do so, but again, his prerogative.

 

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:48 PM, anonymous said:

ADDENDUM to the above previous post---

Almost forgot---here is a copy of the page containing book 4, article 11 from the altered/edited 1928 Russian edition (001.bmp), on which page are dhs' own editing "markings"---and again, please NOTE dhs' marking---SECTION MISSING---specifically, verse two (2) under article 11, which---SECTION MISSING---of course, is mgr's original (002.bmp) for Guest newname's "accurate" translation into English.

001.bmp

002.bmp

 

  

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Quote

I am curious to know if you have the originals in photograph form, especially of interest to me Book 4 article 11?  If not, I have a great deal of much of the originals which may contain Book 4 article 11 and would gladly share them with you, if you desire.

No, the originals are not in photograph form---they are typewritten from the handwritten---and thank you for your offer regarding the originals, however, no need.

And yes, dhs, along with the initial spin doctors (all of whom are more than likely deceased by now), will most definitely give answer to THE LORD GOD for such a heinous misdeed---more so dhs, as he continues to brazenly perpetuate the deceit to date.  Woe unto him....

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I do have in my position in the photographed form of what is supposedly the originals of MGR's writings of which I would hope contains the Book 4 Article 11 which is what DHS transcribed from with the help of Volkov.  I have had them for numerous years and were given to me by the person that actually photographed them on the hood of a car in the parking lot of the old Freeway Church. 

I would be willing to share with someone with the expertize/ability/desire/time who could verify their authenticity.

last/least/foundinline ©™® (where faithfulness to the Gospel is always desired)

 

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RE:  dhs’ editing of the previously altered/edited published 1928 Russian [second] edition

To give Guest newname an idea of how much and the type of editing that was done by the [initial] spin doctors of the published 1928 Russian [second] edition prior to dhs’ “compare and correct” translation project (which included dhs' own editing), here are some examples seen in dhs’ editing markings of the already altered/edited 1928 Russian [second] edition.

In book 13, dhs crossed out article 9 completely (containing verses 1-6) with an arrow pointing to his notation which reads:

Quote

“goes between Ch. 15 + 16, Bk 10.”

Obviously, this means that what is article 9, which the spin doctors placed in book 13, did not belong in book 13, but in book 10 of the originals, between articles/chapters 15 and 16.

In the same book (13), under article 10, regarding verses 1-5, dhs’ notation reads: 

Quote

“vrs 1-5 go between Ch 15 + 16 Bk 10.”

Obviously, this means that verses 1-5 of article 10, which the spin doctors placed in book 13, did not belong in book 13, but in book 10 of the originals, between articles/chapters 15 and 16.

In book 14, dhs’ notations read:

Quote

“Book 14 manuscript begins at Chapter 7 verse 3-3/4 --- see Morning Star, page 271---or 1st ed. Pg. 204.”

Obviously, this means that the content in book 14 prior to chapter 7 verse 3-3/4 (when the originals of book 14 begin), was arbitrarily inserted by the spin doctors.

Following the above notations, the text that follows is the name and/or title---

Quote

ДАХТОРАЦЕЯ

---again with an arrow from that name/title to dhs’ notation which reads:

Quote

“follows after Chap 25.”

Obviously, this means that the above name/title was taken from its original place in the [original] manuscripts (i.e., after chapter 25), and inserted as a heading at the very beginning of book 14.

Following this name/title is article 1---under this article 1, were fourteen (14) Roman numerals (e.g., I, II, III, IV, etc.), and under each Roman numeral was a paragraph of text---dhs crossed out all the Roman numerals and instead spelled out the numbers (e.g., First.…; Second….; Third…., etc.), and inserted them to form the beginning of each paragraph.  In other words, rather than the Roman numerals, dhs elected to begin each paragraph with cardinal numbers, spelling out the cardinal numbers, followed by the text, which looks like this:

First, + (text).

Second, + (text).

Third, + (text).

Fourth, + (text).

The sentence that follows the above changes, is completely crossed out followed by dhs’ notations:

“BK 14 order in manuscript--- 

7:3-3/4 > 20

6:1 > 6:IV

5 all

21 > 25

1 all

26 all 3 and 4

2:1-XVII

7:1-3-3/4

27 all

Not in BK 14 manuscript---

28 XVIII

6: V

28, 29, 30

Obviously, the order of text in the altered/edited published 1928 Russian [second] edition was not the order in book 14 of the originals, and some text added in the altered/edited published 1928 Russian [second] edition which was not in book 14 of the originals.

A few more examples and we're done for now.

Under article 2 of the same book (14), there is an arrow that points to the notation:

Quote

“follows after Ch 4.”

Obviously, article 2 in book 14 of the altered/edited published 1928 Russian [second] edition, belongs after article/chapter 4 in the originals.

Under this same article (2), as with article 1---all eighteen (18) Romans numerals are crossed out with the notation:

Quote

“now go to Ch 7.”

Obviously, the content that is article 2 in the altered/edited published 1928 Russian [second] edition, belongs after and/or is part of article/chapter 7 in the originals.

The last paragraph under this article 2 has an arrow pointing to the notation:

Quote

“this verse belongs between Ch. 17 + 18 BK 10.”

Obviously, this last paragraph of article 2 in book 14, belongs between articles/chapters 17 and 18 in book 10 of the originals.

Article 3 of this same book (14) has an arrow pointing to the notation:

Quote

“follows after Ch 26---see typewritten copy with corrections.”

Obviously, this means that article 3 in book 14 belongs after article/chapter 26 in the originals, and with corrections.

And last but not least, article 5 of this same book (14) has this notation: 

Quote

“follows after Ch 6 #IV.”

Obviously, this means that article 5 in book 14, belongs after article/chapter 6, verse 4, in the originals.

NOTE:  Books 10 and 14 are the most heavily altered/edited of all the originals.  One guess as to the reason?  Correct---because the content in these two books in the originals is the most obscene/vile.

There you are, Guest newname---a little lesson in how much and the type of editing done by both the spin doctors of the altered/edited published 1928 Russian [second] edition, and the altered/edited published English translations (1983; 2005 second edition). 

(BTW, FYI---dhs' 1971 work copy consists of 204 pages---176 pages of his editing the already altered/edited published 1928 Russian [second] edition, and 28 pages of the "SECTION(S) MISSING" text, which is of course, mgr's originals.)

Oh what a tangled web was woven to ensnare gullible and naive individuals like Guest newname who, to date, remain bewitched and mesmerized by the vain imaginings of a self-deluded wannabe "Christ" aka "the new Jewish Messiah"---

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The Holy Scriptures also state the following:

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." (2 Tim 3:16.)

To sum up, the Bible is indeed inspired of God, and is inerrant in the original autographs. But unfortunately, as you well know, we do not have the original autographs, nor are we certain that we have an error free copy of the Bible in any form today. This is why our Lord, Christ Jesus, stated unto His Apostles:

"However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come." (John 16:13.)

It is ultimately God and His Holy Spirit that guides mankind unto all truth. The Bible as we have it today contains the words of God, and should be used for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, as it itself states. Therefore God is the ultimate authority. (Guest newname)

So if Guest newname isn’t certain that the copies THE HOLY SCRIPTURES we have today are error-free, how can he, with any certainty, believe and trust the SCRIPTURAL passages he presents as proof text for his statements?  And how, on what basis, does he determine which SCRIPTURAL passages are error-free (true/truth) and which are not (erroneous/false/untrue---if that were the case, but isn't)? 

Guest newname’s conclusion regarding his uncertainty with respect to the veracity of THE HOLY SCRIPTURES---

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This is why our Lord, Christ Jesus, stated unto His Apostles:

"However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come." (John 16:13.)

---not only speaks volumes concerning his uncertainty in the inerrancy and infallibility of THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, but highlights his [unspoken but spoken] emphasis on what, within the molokan community, is believed to be---the “spoken” word of THE LORD GOD (recall f/m/p’s insistence on “spoken” versus “written” [word]) aka what is believed by its congregants to be “prophetic utterance”---that is, when an individual comes out purportedly “in THE SPIRIT,” and utters whatever he utters.  This is the reason Guest newname presented the SCRIPTURAL passages from John 16:13 above as proof text for that very perspective and belief.

But one must question---does Guest newname “test” these so-called “prophets” and their so-called “prophetic utterances,” and if so, how?

For example, suppose a “prophet” came out “in THE SPIRIT” during a wedding (as is typical in the molokan community) in the church Guest newname is a member of, and declared that every man in the congregation is allowed to have seven wives---as spoken by the prophet Isaiah---and even opened THE HOLY SCRIPTURES to passage 4:1 in the book of Isaiah, to “confirm” his “prophetic utterance.” 

How would Guest newname react?  Would he accept the “prophet’s” declaration as “inspiration by/of THE [HOLY] SPIRIT,” and believe it is acceptable and approved by THE LORD GOD to acquire six more wives (presuming he is married and has one wife already)?  Would he question and “test” the “prophet” and the declaration as to whether it was truly “by inspiration of THE [HOLY] SPIRIT”?  And if so, why and how?  How would he know if what the “prophet” declared was “of THE LORD GOD” thus true/truth?  And how would Guest newname view that so-called "prophet" when he discovered that the so-called "prophetic utterance" was a falsehood/lie/untruth?  Would he consider the person a "true" prophet [from THE LORD GOD] or a "false" prophet inspired by a spirit, yes, but which spirit---THE SPIRIT of TRUTH or a lying spirit? 

This would be no different than when mgr did it during his day, and what the spin doctors have done---and yet mgr's proponents accept and believe it to be true/truth, "oooohing" and "aaaahing" at what they have been brainwashed to believe is "spiritual profundity."

It must be pointed out that because of Guest newname’s (and his maximist brethen’s) uncertainty with respect to the written word(s) of THE LORD GOD aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES---as seen in his statements---it is perfectly understandable that he would underestimate and/or ignore the written word(s) of THE LORD GOD (JESUS) with respect to---prophecy (foretelling) as revealed by JESUS in the book of Revelation:

The revelation of JESUS CHRIST, which GOD gave HIM to show to HIS servants the things that must soon take place.  HE made it known by sending HIS angel to HIS servant John, who bore witness to the word of GOD and to the testimony of JESUS CHRIST, even to all that he saw.  Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.” (Revelation 1:1-3)

As well as the admonition for adding and/or “taking away from the words of the prophecy of this book,” including the consequences for doing so:

“I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, GOD will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this bookHE WHO testifies to these things says, ‘Surely I am coming soon.’ Amen. Come, LORD JESUS!” (Revelation 22:18-20)

It is THE SPIRIT of CHRIST aka THE SPIRIT of TRUTH aka THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO gives all those in whom HE dwells, the understanding concerning future events prophesied and revealed in the book of Revelation, as well as in the entire HOLY SCRIPTURES (Old and New Testaments).  In other words, all that is necessary for one to know concerning past, present, and future events with respect to THE LORD GOD’S---salvation and a right[eous] relationship with HIM---is contained in HIS written word(s) aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.

And if one is uncertain with respect to its contents aka inerrant infallible absolute truth, he is akin to a ship without a rudder carried about by every wind [of doctrine] and destined for disaster….(as are mgr's devotees).

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Guest Prijun

9 The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 

10 and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. 

11 For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, 

12 in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

 

The deception being the distorted scriptures themselves. You do not know what it means "to add or take away."

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Guest newname
On 3/21/2018 at 5:44 PM, anonymous said:

In other words, all that is necessary for one to know concerning past, present, and future events with respect to THE LORD GOD’S---salvation and a right[eous] relationship with HIM---is contained in HIS written word(s) aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.

Interestingly enough, this statement provided to us by Anonymous is nowhere found in the Bible, which one should expect if Anonymous was indeed consistent. But it is now obvious, that Anonymous, being influenced by Western Reformers, and their traditions, has essentially backed himself into a corner by claiming that “all that is necessary” with respect to future events is found in the words of the Holy Scriptures. I must ask Anonymous to provide Scriptural backing for such claims and indicate to us how and why the gift of “prophecy” (the foretelling of future events) is no longer valid for the modern believer in Jesus Christ. And why the Apostle Paul was wrong/incorrect when he stated clearly: That you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 1:7. When Anonymous, after a vigorous search for such a passage comes up empty handed, he must admit and fess up to the fact that it is really HE who has violated the words of the Book of Revelation found in Rev 22:18-20, which is based on his fallible interpretation of the passage, and is therefore one of those unto whom the plagues of the Book of Revelation will be added to. Also by using Anonymous’s logic, the entire New Testament is also invalid, due to the fact that it has been added to the Old Testament, which states: You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you. Deut 4:2.

There is an alternate view however, in that, nowhere does Scripture limit or constrain God’s revelations to a book. God can and does use and work with en-gifted individuals within His church to proclaim future events. As the Scripture states: “For the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets.”

 

P.S. Anonymous in his quotations of the Book of Revelation, chose to utilize the English Standard Version of the Bible (the ESV). Which is of no surprise in regards to Anonymous, for it was translated and edited by evangelically leaning scholars who translated the Greek Text using a very rigid form of Formal Equivalency, which Anonymous is apparently very keen on. According to the preface of the ESV, the textual basis for the New Testament Greek text is the “1993 edition of the Greek New Testament” (4th corrected ed.) published by the UBS, and Novum Testamentum Graece (27th ed.) edited by Nestle and Aland. Why is this important? Let us explain.

The ESV makes use of the Nestle and Aland Greek text, which is predominantly based on an Alexandrian text type. What this means is that these manuscripts mainly originate from Alexandria, Egypt, and deviate in many ways with other text types.

The King James Bible for example, is based on a Byzantine text type, more specifically called the Majority Text. This is why there are significant differences between the ESV and the KJV within the New Testament, due to the fact that they use two different Greek texts that differ with one another on wording.

Anonymous is going to have the very difficult task, of explaining away the following obvious textual variant found within the Holy Scriptures. It is commonly refereed to as the Comma Johanneum.

The King James Bible states: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

While the ESV states: For there are three that testify.

It is obvious and self evident that the two texts differ…

Remember, Anonymous is in line with the Western Protestant belief, that the Bible is error free. Therefore, why do we have in front of us, two different renderings, of the same verse? Anonymous will be forced to use a form of Textual Criticism in determining which reading is correct. Thereby making him, and his human/fallible intellect the arbiter of the truth. The onus is on Anonymous, to explain away the differences found within the Greek manuscripts of the Holy Scriptures, and explain how and by what standard does he determine and differentiate between the Words of God and the words of a scribe who added and/or subtracted words from the Bible, which he claims has no errors.

I choose to believe what the Bible actuality says about itself, that all Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." (2 Tim 3:16.) Which is consistent with the teachings of the Molokan forefathers, from which Anonymous has deviated.

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Guest newname
On 3/13/2018 at 6:47 PM, anonymous said:

It becomes obvious that he does not know of what he speaks since what he speaks of is not, repeat, not mgr’s unaltered/unedited originals, but the altered/edited forgery that is the published 1928 Russian [second] edition and/or the published English editions (1983; 2005).

Greetings Anonymous,

You state below that I do not know what I speak of because the section that I quoted (Book 10:18:4-6) was the altered/edited forgery. I must ask how you came to this conclusion? Last I checked, the text I quoted is indeed written in the originals and was included within the published text. The sections (of Book 10) omitted within the published 1928 Russian text were not always omitted. Most of them were included in their fullness, or in part, in a previous version published 13 years earlier. Since you claimed that I quoted from a forgery, and now realize that I did not, it becomes obvious that you goofed (again) and have no idea of what you speak. I also am very sorry you took the time and effort to scan and upload (which I know is very time consuming) these various pages from DHS’s work, only to realize that I have no need of them (having had possession of all of these documents for many years), which means that the time you consumed was a complete waste of your precious time. 

In regards to the translation, you very well know, as well as I, that the translation which you have constantly regurgitated from the pages of Paul Efseaff’s booklets is very poor. The fact that you have never publicly pointed this out is very telling (effectively hiding the fact that his Russian was very elementary at best). In fact, the Russian translation of the aforementioned work, sent to Russia within the last 10 years, did not even include the original wording of MGR but instead a translation of Efseaff’s English translation of the originals. For someone who claims to have the indwelling of the Spirit of Truth, aka the Holy Spirit, why not provide what MGR actually wrote, instead of distributing a pamphlet that was a translation of a faulty translation?

These facts are in themselves direct evidence of the spirit of deceit, aka the spirit of the antichrist, that dwells within your hardened heart.

NOTE: In my dealings with various other “Maximisti” located in various regions within Russia and Armenia, many pointed out the above facts and indicated that what was done by the pamphlet’s distributers was very dishonest and a work of poor sportsmanship (a blow below the belt as it were).

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Guest newname
On 3/17/2018 at 10:13 PM, anonymous said:

Here is text from both---mgr’s unedited/unsanitized originals, and---dhs’ “sanitized” second edition of his translation of the 1928 Russian edition---for comparison:

This is book 4, article 11, from the beginning---in mgr’s [unedited/unsanitized] originals:

And here is book 4, article 11, from the beginning---in dhs’ edited/sanitized second edition (2005) of his 1928 Russian edition translation from Russian into English (black book):

How about that omission and revamping job---everything in RED in mgr's originals has been entirely omitted, and the partial sentences in RED in dhs' perversion [of mgr's originals] have been reconstructed to give them a completely different meaning than that of the author. 

Deceitful, deceitful, deceitful---shameful, shameful, shameful....  

 

P.S.  If “regurgitation” is what Guest newname thinks of his beloved hero/leader/mentor/shepherd’s [unaltered/unedited original] memoirs---okay---although it is a tad disrespectful and hypocritical of his faithful one to do so, but again, his prerogative.

Greetings Anonymous,

The section that you quoted from Book 4, Article 11, was also published and included word for word in an earlier version, and was no doubt removed by the editors of the 1928 Russian edition. The manner in which you portray the interpretation of the text is also not correct.

Marafina (also known as Marfa) was the only lawful physical wife of MGR, the mother of his 3 children. Sterafina (Stenya) was MGR’s sister in law, a prophetess (more then likely the head prophetess) of the Nikitino church, which was held in the basement of the father of the prophetess known as Varya. Marafina and Sterafina were step sisters, one of whom was adopted into the others family (the records are not clear as to who was adopted and who was not).

Sterafina was representative of his spiritual community (Zion), the mother of all those who believe in the Holy Spirit, which he indicated earlier within the same booklet (MGR 4:2:7). The relationship between the two was a spiritual one, in that he through her, via the activity of the Holy Spirit within the congregation, via the holy kiss of matrimony (MGR 1:29:5), spiritually produced children (gifts/converts/reborn individuals) within the church (MGR 14:30:1-2). To imply and assume anything beyond this, places you in the same boat as the adversaries of the Jumper Molokans, from the time of their very birth, to the time of MGR and his headship over the Molokan Jumper community. These same adversaries (which were mainly composed of the Steadfast [Postoyan] faction of Molokanism) considered the kiss of love within Molokan Jumper prophetic activity to be adultery and polygamy (MGR 9:14:4). David Yesseyevich also mentions similar situations within his own writings at an earlier date (DY 2:1). Both deny any immoral activity, but instead testify that they were slandered by their own brothers, jealous of the activity of the Spirit that was upon them. 

In V. 4 of MGR 4:11 (following the edited unpublished portion), he instructs his wives (which consisted of his own physical family as well as his own spiritual family) to remain with him in one spirit, unlike other members who went after satan, a different spirit (such as yourself). These apostates, violated their vows of fidelity, blasphemed the Holy Spirit and made MGR’s enemies to rejoice. These enemies always wanted to steal his flock out of his hands. MGR in V. 12, identifies the daughter of Zion to be his flock, which consisted of his physical and spiritual families. One section earlier, he instructs his all of his followers to observe the wedding matrimony of the spiritual union towards him, including but not limited to Marafina his only physical wife, and Sterafina his spiritual wife/queen, who was representative of Zion, our spiritual mother, and acted as a prophetess within the Nikitino Molokan Jumper church.

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Guest newname
On 3/16/2018 at 11:06 PM, anonymous said:

P.S.  BTW, those "sinistral molokans," as Guest newname's beloved hero/leader/mentor/shepherd referred to them in his memoirs, were those individuals who opposed (and did the right thing to report him to the authorities) the pedophilic megalomaniac's lewd/sinful behavior and demands made upon the young "chaste maidens" and their parents (threatening and cursing both the daughters and parents if they didn't comply with his wanton ways) on whom he cast his eyes for his fantasy fiefdom aka "New Israel" aka his "Zion" which he attempted to model after King Solomon along with his multiple wives and concubines.  That---was the reason for the authorities' involvement and consequently, his incarceration.  He went to prison and "suffered" for---women, two in particular (his first two "spiritual wives") that he himself names in his memoirs---his "first" wife---Marafina, and his "second" wife---Stenya/Sterafina (the so-called "prophetess"---if so, who was Marafina?  Another "prophetess"?  And then there were---Varya, Leksya, Vasilisa, Manya, and Grunya---"prophetesses" as well?), as he so lovingly refers to them in his unaltered/unedited memoirs---until---they (and the other [new] seven girls) married normal young men (whom he referred to as "sons of satan incarnate")---then all hell broke loose (literally), and this too, he spewed in filthy language in his unaltered/unedited memoirs, cursing them, their husbands (whom he called "sons of satan incarnate"), and their children.  And to his perverted way of thinking, he believed that in his incarceration [which in truth, was for his lascivious behavior which he attempted to masquerade as "spiritual," and terrorizing families], he was "suffering" for---the truth.  It is also the reason he was livid with his two so-called "prophets," Emilian and Fetice, who allowed the girls to marry normal young men in his absence, especially after his specific instructions to save them for him since he was their "eternal husband"---all this and more contained within the unaltered/unedited memoirs of an arrogant narcissistic pedophile aka mgr. 

Greetings Anonymous,

 

I am grateful that you posted such a concise and limited summery of your incorrect and dishonest conclusions in regards to MGR. It allows for me to more easily break apart your slanderous accusations.

Despite your vile fantasies, which would put a good issue of the National Enquirer to shame, MGR was not arrested for “lewd and sinful” behavior (I didn't know sinfulness was a crime in old Russia?). Instead, what initially lead to his arrest, was a 70 foot flag pole that was erected in the village of Nikitino, which was later confiscated by the authorities. This banner/flag indicated that the regime of the Tsar was to soon end, and indicated that MGR’s kingdom was to take its place. Due to its political significance, and the fact that this banner was erected while the Grand Princes of Russia were traveling through the various villages, MGR was arrested very shortly thereafter and sent to a prison in Alexandropol. Efim Gerasimovich (who was around 15/16 years old at the time), the brother of some of the spiritual queens (prophetesses), wrote a letter to MGR which was delivered to him in Alexandropol:

Farewell, farewell, Maxim Gavrilovich! Here is our last meeting with you. They will exile you away from us to a distant and barbarous country; beyond the steep mountains, the tall and dark forests, into a difficult land. You will live there with serpents and pass throughout he gates of wolves. There will be no meetings except in meager letters, your happiness and joy will remain behind. The roads and trails awaiting you will weary you, and will travel according to their own intentions. Farewell, farewell, while we can yet see you. Today a voice is heard; they come to exile him away from us. With what shall he take delight? His tears shall overflow. His hour has come, he is exiled away from us. We saw him and we shined like lightning. He has departed int ears to receive his crowns. He will observe this, Christ will call him His brother. He has gone to bury the darkness of this age, to demolish the sinistral thrones. They have driven him into the dark forest where the demon himself resides. His militia is Angelic. His gaze is stern; he will have no mercy upon the enemy. And his Spirit, the Spirit of the storm, will agitate them like the sea.

 

NOTE: EGK did not rejoice that MGR was exiled away, which one would expect to be a natural reaction if MGR was indeed abusing his sisters. In fact, with him being removed from the equation, EGK mourns and speaks of him in a very positive manner. He clearly states that MGR’s happiness and joy would remain with them. Which is a very positive statement for a teenager to make to anybody, let alone someone who did what Anonymous claims MGR did. MGR did not suffer only for two women. But instead, for his entire spiritual community (which also included the two spiritual queens mentioned in MGR 10:10:3 in the originals) and his Lord, Jesus Christ. On a further note, Anonymous incorrectly identifies who the queens were in the above quoted passage. Marafina was not a spiritual queen, but his only physical wife. She is not mentioned within the text (maybe Anonymous needs to read more carefully).

 

The following passages should provide more then enough evidence to prove that MGR believed he was suffering for his community as a whole, and for his Lord Jesus Christ. 

Here I, Admeyil entrust this book of mine to that man who by it can truly serve me as well as all of my spiritual community, those who everywhere confess the Spirit of my suffering. MGR 1:1:1.

This is why I suffer such a long while for Him. Concerning this, He, who sits upon the throne says: “Behold, I make all things new.” MGR 2:14:6.

I also ask of you, show it to your own people and my brethren, and all the others who will heed you and me who suffers for you. MGR 3:1:4.

I suffer for you as did Jeremiah the prophet, - day and night I weep. MGR 3:2:3.

I ask you, my beloved friends, look at me with the eyes of your kind heart, upon your weeping sufferer. So many tears I have shed; day and night I do not cease from my lament. MGR 3:3:1-2.

I first thank God who created all; and second, this community which has not forgotten me, a fiery, ardent sufferer for the faith and love of the Holy Spirit. MGR 4:1:5.

There are of course numerous other passages indicating the fact, that MGR believed and stated that he was suffering for his Lord, and for his spiritual community, and not ONLY for two women. These passages will not be listed due to space. Anonymous’s conclusion is now proven false. 

The problem that we have here is that Anonymous is not using constant logic in his attacks on the writings of MGR. He chooses to use one set of rules for the Bible, and another for the Spirit and Life. This is the reason why every argument he uses against the writings of MGR, can be thrown right back in his face, thereby causing us to effectually waste our time, and turn blue in the face for no reason whatsoever. If Anonymous is to take his job seriously, he must begin using constant logic, by which we could both dialogue in a respectful and conductive way. But sadly, his heart is to hard to do such things, he will persist in attacking a straw man of MGR, an individual who did not exist. It is very disappointing indeed. For some, as long as you are attacking the words of “the enemy,” you can twist, distort, and misrepresent all you want. Which is what Anonymous does to MGR and the Molokan Jumper faith in general. 

 

The rest of Anonymous's incorrect assumptions and statements (mostly outright slanderous and false) will not be addressed here, due to time constraints, as I am afraid I have wasted enough time as it is. Good day to all. 

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Guest newname,

You may want to politely ask f/m/p to put a sock in it so that he stops embarrassing himself, you, and your kind every time he opens his mouth....

 

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Guest newname,

The time and energy put into your defensive (but inaccurate) responses, especially because of your “time constraints,” weren't necessary and actually a waste of your time and the readers’ time---all you need do is provide an “accurate” translation of mgr’s unaltered/unedited originals (“SECTION(S) MISSING” above) in English on this forum, and allow the readers to judge for themselves the content and context in which his memoirs were written.  Simple….

Thank you.

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Four (4) fairly lengthy posts, including repetitive complaints about the "elementary" and sloppy translation(s) of his beloved hero's "regurgitated" (in Guest newname's words) originals, but still no "accurate" translation from Guest newname of at least the two (2) short pages (paragraphs actually) of mgr's originals from book 10, the book wherein is found the infamous---указь (decree/edict)---which Guest newname was so worked up over. 

Makes one wonder concerning the credibility of Guest newname's reassurance that the Russian language would not be a hindrance to him---should be a snap for a person claiming to be proficient in Russian, yet here we are, still waiting....

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Guest newname’s silence and reluctance in providing an “accurate” translation of mgr’s originals (the ones he claims he has had for years) is deafening and speaks volumes---and it becomes even more obvious that he and his maximist brethren willfully choose to ignore the ugly truths concerning their beloved hero/leader/shepherd while continuing to lull themselves into the spiritual stupor that is their signature trademark.

With the truth staring them in the face, you'd think they'd finally "get it"---but no, they volitionally do not want to do so---and so be it, their choice.

Sad, very sad….

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