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B) My kid's had a great time. I also know that they look forward to next year too!

I also think that one of my kids might have found their future spouse :) The kid's enjoy meeting new kids every year. This is good....some kids do not come around very often and my kids have befriended many. Camp is a good thing for our kids....

Anyone else?????

Your comments may help us with our future campers.

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Hello...

 

Camp is July 31 - August 6!

 

Sada _vti_cnf

woohoo! I think i need to start saving money!!! I wanna go again!!!

 

Sarah

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Sarah,

 

Me too! Hopefully my schedule will allow me to attend this year....remember 'the' speech :unsure: I thought that it was cool that we sat near each other. :rolleyes: It always amazes me how God is in control of our lives....even the simplest little detail (like where you sit during speech ;) ) is a glory to Him. :D

 

Tsotsa Sada

 

ps...tell your Mom I said..."Wassup!?"

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Totsya Sada...

 

Ha...I knew it was you!!! ;) Yes I remember the speech...and I just got a chill when you mentioned it. Wow....I was telling my mom that I thought I was talking to you on here...and she already beat you to the Hello!!! I thought that was great that you were near by...I needed that there...and its weird how at camp something like that would happen!

 

Sarah

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For those of you who were'nt able to attend the Camp Fundraiser, we missed you!

 

It was a lot of fun (and hard work) bar-b-queing all that shash-lik, hope everyone who attended enjoyed it.

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For those of you who were'nt able to attend the Camp Fundraiser, we missed you!

 

It was a lot of fun (and hard work) bar-b-queing all that shash-lik, hope everyone who attended enjoyed it.

Hey...sorry I missed it...Shashlick...mmmmm yummy...now im hungry....how was the turnout!?

 

Sarah

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When I peeked inside the main assembly, it wasn't a very large crowd, but looked like it was about the same as some previous camp fundraiser lunches. I think they had good sales on the "take-out" meals. We'll find out at the UMCA meeting tonight (5/7/05 7:30p.m. hint-hint) how well they did, if they have all their numbers (receipts/expenses) together yet.

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    Like always here comes seeking again...
     
    Going to put a Bible spin on this...
     
    Where will they just quit it?

I have a real problem with fund raisers

 

It seems to me that the people needing to continually raise funds possibly serve a god (lower case g) that's broke

 

Putting the "bite" on families after "surveys" to the tune of 6 grand to do "god's" work

 

The God I serve isn't broke... In fact quite the opposite -

    10 For all the animals of the forest are mine,and I own the cattle on a thousand hills.
    11 Every bird of the mountainsand all the animals of the field belong to me.
    12 If I were hungry, I would not mention it to you,for all the world is mine and everything in it. (Psalm 50:10-12 NLT)

 

He doesn't need my money or does He want me to beg to "pump life" into something that's needs to die

    1 Unless the LORD builds a house,the work of the builders is useless. Unless the LORD protects a city,guarding it with sentries will do no good.
    2 It is useless for you to work so hardfrom early morning until late at night, anxiously working for food to eat;for God gives rest to his loved ones. (Psalm 127:-2 NLT)

 

There are examples of needs being met in the Bible. In the Biblical examples it was never through raffles and "fund raisers" - A "give to get" arrangement

 

When Moses was given the command to build the Tabernacle, he found the 2 Spirit filled craftsmen to act as project coordinators. Then put the word out to the people regarding the need. Moses did chage the group "dues" or a "special assesment". He instructed the people to give as they were lead of God.

    5 Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever [is] of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,
    6 And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' [hair],
    7 And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,
    8 And oil for the light, and spices for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense,
    9 And onyx stones, and stones to be set for the ephod, and for the breastplate. (Exodus 35:5-9 KJV)

 

Notice it's out of a willing heart...not out of compulsion or guilt. No raffle tickets or chance to win a new car, just a willing heart to give to the Lord's work.

 

I say

  • If you have to compel people to give with gimmicks, your god is broke
  • If you give out of compulsion, it's better to keep it than to waste it on the works of men

The Bible states

    7 You must each make up your own mind as to how much you should give. Don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. For God loves the person who gives cheerfully.
    8 And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. (2 Corinthians 9:7-8 NLT)

Again notice the giving should not be reluctantly or in response to pressure

 

I say give as the Lord leads and for the right reasons... I you cannot give like that, keep your money...God doesn't need it

 

As a parting question: If no one from the community got shahlik (or anything), would anyone give? If you then did give, what is your motivation?

 

Honest answers please

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You have made a relevant point!

 

"But I won`t do anything unless you agree to it first. I want your act of kindness to come from your heart, and not be something you feel forced to do." (Philemon 14, CEV)

 

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Ok, here I go, I wanna put in my 2cents. I personally like the camp fundraisers cause both my teens go to camp. The purpose of the fundraiser is to keep the camper fee low for parents like myself who find it hard to send 2 teens to camp. Without fundraisers the fees would be way out of my price range.

 

Sometimes it's easier for people to give when they are getting something in return, like a meal. And it's nice to get together with the people to visit and have a good time.

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Seeking, good point I guess I would have to say no, BUT if it was to put a roof over a poor family or help someone sick that would be diffrent in my book. B)

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Seeking, good point I guess I would have to say no, BUT if it was to put a roof over a poor family or help someone sick that would be diffrent in my book.  B)

That a portion of my point

 

You most likely wouldn't give for a "fund raiser" if there wasn't a direct benefit to you

 

That's an honest reply

 

However, you would give sacrificially when you saw a true need where someone was sick or poor

 

This is EXACTLY what Jesus taught

    34 Then the King will say to those on the right, ˜Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
    35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
    36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.`
    37 "Then these righteous ones will reply, ˜Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink?
    38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing?
    39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?`
    40 And the King will tell them, ˜I assure you, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!`" (Mathew 25:34-40 NLT)

 

Your motivation is correct because you see a true need and you are moved with compassion toward another to help out. You are not giving because you "have to" or get something in return.

 

Jesus taught that when you give to those in true need with the proper motivation it's as if you did that kind deed unto Him

 

Shouldn't that always be everyones motivation to give

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Thanks TK1...

 

As I was reviewing my posts from earlier I left out one point

 

If you compel people to give through guilt/intimidation/gimmicks etc... You'll have to do it with even greater fervor the next time and the next...Until you can no longer motivate anyone to do anything anymore.

 

At than point the whole thing system just breaks down and nothing is left

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I agree, and I also disagree, with your line of thought seeking_truth.

 

We, as believers, should all search out where the "needs" are and put all of our resources (what we have to give) toward helping the needy. It is a believer's responsibility to give, for what we have is truly not ours, but God's. It's God's money that we have, and we are to responsibly use it toward His goals.

 

But in your example of Moses and the temple, Moses did instruct the people to give. He told them of a need. They didn't automatically come forth with the funds. So, leadership has a responsibility to instruct the people as to the "where and when".

 

As a social people, Molokans have a gathering together for whatever, usually (but not always) with a meal. A meal, or even a gathering is not necessary. People would still give. Some give without attending. Is it wrong to gather together people for fellowship over a meal ? Is a "fundraiser" a bad reason to gather people together ?

 

I agree, there are some things that "should" be done away with, like raffles and prizes. But, if unbelievers are invited to these functions also, some do not understand the Christian view of - giving without getting something in return. Are we not allowed to use the money of unbelievers for the work of good ?

 

I also don't agree that the people attending these fundraisers are put under any pressure to give, they don't have to come. All that come, as far as I know, come of their own free will, with the intent to give.

 

The only mandatory attendance that I know of, is for the Molokan Elementary School parents, who are required to participate in thier school fundraisers. I have found this to be true in other private schools also.

 

I don't think UMCA or camp fundraisers fit exactly in what you are condemning. I do see some weak practices involved within some of these events though.

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Hello everyone!

 

To Agree or Disagree {with fundraisers} ;) ...that is the question!?

 

Whatever your belief....thank you for your prayers and your support in helping us bring the word of the Lord to the youth. :D

 

Sada

 

ps...the food was good! :p

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Before I reply, I want to explain again I'm NOT molokan bashing

 

There are the 3 groups within the molokan community we have discussed before

    Group 1 - 66 Book, Jesus died on the Cross for my sin, can't make on my own efforts Christians (I have no problem with them - how can I?)
     
    Group 2 - Traditionalists: You "make it" to Heaven through a "hodge-podge" of ceremony, good works, lineage etc...
     
    Group 3 - Occultists: The 2 book, we're of the woman of the seed, we have our "special" way to Heaven by MGR + ceremony, good works, lineage etc...
     
    Group 2 has placed ceremony, good works, lineage etc.. instead of Jesus
     
    Group 3 has placed rudometkin/S & L instead of Jesus

I'm directing ALL of my attention to groups 2 & 3

 

Group 1 should know what is proper (scripturally speaking)

 

To continue...

 

Please understand that I'm not condemning funding worthwhile endeavors

 

I'm taking issue with the methodology

 

 

I agree, and I also disagree, with your line of thought seeking_truth.

 

We, as believers, should all search out where the "needs" are and put all of our resources (what we have to give) toward helping the needy. It is a believer's responsibility to give, for what we have is truly not ours, but God's. It's God's money that we have, and we are to responsibly use it toward His goals.

 

"and you say, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat well"”but then you don`t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?" (James 2:16 NLT)

 

This is true... We should seek God`s will for our giving and when a need arises we should assist, but in addition, we need to give with the right attitude

 

"You must each make up your own mind as to how much you should give. Don`t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. For God loves the person who gives cheerfully." (2Corinthians 9:7 NLT)

 

 

But in your example of Moses and the temple, Moses did instruct the people to give. He told them of a need. They didn't automatically come forth with the funds. So, leadership has a responsibility to instruct the people as to the "where and when".

 

Again this is true. But did Moses offer the change to win bike or casinka lace?

 

Did he require each family to kick in a specific amount (Like the 6,000.00/family tax)

 

Giving should be as each person has purposed in their own heart. It`s not the amount that matters, rather the intent

 

 

"1 And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, 2 and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. 3 So He said, "Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; 4 "for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had."" (Luke 21:1-4 NKJV)

 

 

As a social people, Molokans have a gathering together for whatever, usually (but not always) with a meal. A meal, or even a gathering is not necessary. People would still give. Some give without attending. Is it wrong to gather together people for fellowship over a meal ? Is a "fundraiser" a bad reason to gather people together ?

 

Again it`s not the event it`s the methodology

 

I don`t agree that some (or more) people would give without some upside benefit¦

 

If this were true there wouldn`t be fundraisers in the first place

 

They are resorting to this because the exact opposite is true

 

The money isn`t there

 

So is it God`s will being effected or is it the will of men trying to fund their own efforts?

 

As to being a social people, therein lies a part of the problem too

 

Again for some, not all, molokans are a social/cultural club first and Christians second.

 

Emphasis is on cultural identity (language, food, dress etc¦) and there a de-emphasis on solid Bible teaching

 

I agree, there are some things that "should" be done away with, like raffles and prizes. But, if unbelievers are invited to these functions also, some do not understand the Christian view of - giving without getting something in return. Are we not allowed to use the money of unbelievers for the work of good?

 

Define good work and unbeliever

 

I also don't agree that the people attending these fundraisers are put under any pressure to give, they don't have to come. All that come, as far as I know, come of their own free will, with the intent to give.

 

The only mandatory attendance that I know of, is for the Molokan Elementary School parents, who are required to participate in thier school fundraisers. I have found this to be true in other private schools also.

 

I don't think UMCA or camp fundraisers fit exactly in what you are condemning. I do see some weak practices involved within some of these events though.

 

Sure they`re put under some pressure and that`s why they are so poorly attended

 

I`ve been to fundraisers and seen all the preparations that went into it only to have 20-25% of the seats filled

 

Why is that?

 

There are supposed to be 50,000 ethnic molokans nationally.

 

What percentage of those are in regular attendance? 5% perhaps?

 

If all 50,000 felt that what was going on was worthwhile and they all gave (let`s say) 200.00 annually (not a large amount) there wouldn`t be a need to fundraise

 

Even better if they gave that monthly, wow!

 

So is the need for continual fundraisers and assessments a symptom of a much deeper issue?

 

As a comparison, the Church we attend has NEVER asked for a dime yet they have purchased millions of dollars of property and all have all the funds for the construction to go along

 

All they do is teach the Bible (66 books, come as you are whoever you are) and the Lord is blessing the effort

 

If someone cannot afford camp or a retreat, there's ALWAYS extra dough to cover

 

 

No pitches, car washes, bake sales, thermometers in the foyer or assessments

 

Why is that?

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Seeking_Truth,

 

I believe you when you say you are not bashing in your post regarding fund raisers.

 

I personally enjoy the fund raisers, I partake in them and help any fundraiser that I can help in.

 

But I totally understood what you are trying to get across. I just gave me something else to think about and ponder.

 

Hey Seeking, this is a good post you started!!! :)

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Seeking, I don't see what you are saying as "molokan bashing" , I am just discussing the topic with you. Are you looking for discussion when you post ? Or, are you just expecting all to just accept what you write as the final word ?

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I don't understand what you are referring to as the "$6000.00/family tax" Seeking_Truth, what is this ?

 

Being in the "inside" of some of the fundraisers, I have personally seen giving without return. I know it happens, it happens "anonymously"(spelling ?). If you are not involved in the "working" of the fundraisers, you would never know that this exists. I don't feel it fair of you to "pidgeon-hole" ALL molokans into your view of "how and why" of the fundraisers, unless you were there to be involved.

 

I will define "unbeliever" as most of your category 2 molokan - people who attend church and follow-through completing the process of conducting church functions, but are not truly believing Christians.

 

I will define "good work" in this case (camp) as to creating an enviroment where the youth can be led to Christ, without the outside influences of the world having such a strong presence.

 

I would agree with your assessment that of the 50,000 ethinic molokans, that maybe 5% are in active attendence, and of those, MAYBE 10% are true Christians. But, do I turn my back on those people then ?

 

It's nice that you attend a perfect church, where every need is met and you have a 100% success rate with sinners repenting and coming to Christ. God obviously blesses your congregation, haleluah ! Glory to Christ Jesus !

 

I'm also curious to your "thermometer in the foyer" reference, what is this ?

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Me stinks seeking is refering to fund raiser thermometers, you know, the more donations, the higher the temperature.

 

Seeking, i'm also glad to read that your church is successful, but let me ask you, where does the money come from for all the remodeling projects, and property aquisitions? Does it grow on a tree? Were you assesed a fee when you joined your church? Do you give to your church, or are you just in for a free ride from past members?

 

The $6000.00 assesment was for the construction of a new church building for the church that moved from east L.A. which apparently you also have a problem with.

 

Seeking my freind, you seem to forget that you, and the rest of us are interpreting scripture with the human mind, which is fallable, we all fall short of the glory...even you..at times ;)

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'Sup Seek?!

 

Please clarify: {thermometers in the foyer} :huh:

 

Sada

It's a non-molokan thing I've seen in denominational style churches

 

There's a chunk of cardboard cut out and painted to look like a large themometer

 

At the low "temperature" is 0 and the top is the amount of money the church is trying to "raise"

 

So, your scale would be 1,000 5,000 10,000 all the way up to the "target"

 

I don't agree with this, it's just something I've in a church or 2 (that I don't attend)

 

Now for something funny (hopefully)

churchsign.jpg

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Me stinks seeking is refering to fund raiser thermometers, you know, the more donations, the higher the temperature.

 

Seeking, i'm also glad to read that your church is successful, but let me ask you, where does the money come from for all the remodeling projects, and property acquisitions? Does it grow on a tree? Were you assessed a fee when you joined your church? Do you give to your church, or are you just in for a free ride from past members?

 

The $6000.00 assessment was for the construction of a new church building for the church that moved from east L.A. which apparently you also have a problem with.

 

Seeking my freind, you seem to forget that you, and the rest of us are interpreting scripture with the human mind, which is fallable, we all fall short of the glory...even you..at times ;)

The church has no dues, no initiation fees, no set amounts, no assessments, no grandfather memberships because of other family - no nutin'

 

The people just give as they are lead of the Lord, period

 

As they have purposed in their heart

 

Yes I do have a problem with charging people to hear God's Word or limiting access to "god's house"

 

What if you didn't have the dough?

 

They would not let you use the church let's say for a wedding or funeral, correct?

 

Who's house is it then?

 

God's or men?

    35 And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. (John 6:35-37 NKJV)

God says that anyone that would come He will in no ways cast out, but in your system that could occur

 

How do you reconcile that?

 

God isn't a respecter of persons

    1 My dear brothers and sisters,* how can you claim that you have faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ if you favor some people more than others?
    2 For instance, suppose someone comes into your meeting* dressed in fancy clothes and expensive jewelry, and another comes in who is poor and dressed in shabby clothes.
    3 If you give special attention and a good seat to the rich person, but you say to the poor one, "You can stand over there, or else sit on the floor"--well,
    4 doesn't this discrimination show that you are guided by wrong motives?
    5 Listen to me, dear brothers and sisters. Hasn't God chosen the poor in this world to be rich in faith? Aren't they the ones who will inherit the Kingdom he promised to those who love him?
    6 And yet, you insult the poor man! (James 2:1-6 NLT)

As to interpreting Scripture with the human mind, there's your problem

 

Scripture interprets itself with the Holy Spirit giving direction

    26 But when the Father sends the Counselor as my representative--and by the Counselor I mean the Holy Spirit--he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I myself have told you. (John 14:26 NLT)

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If what you say is true, then your church is the exception, and not the rule. I have spoken with freinds who attend other churches, and yes they get assesed for various church needs, and i have heard that other churches will not bury a non member. So i guess that the Molokans are not the only no goodniks

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Again Seeking, I'm going to have to come at you from the angle of, since you're not there, you can only have an "outsider's" perspective of the situation.

 

If someone "didn't have the dough", it would be taken care of. Help comes to the needy. Access is not denied to the word of God.

 

You're view of the molokans seems to be that of a harsh, hard-hearted people who cut off from themselves anyone who is poor and needy. In the case of one church's assessment to it's members, they went into the situation knowingly. This wasn't "dropped" on them unexpectedly. It wasn't demanded of them to "cough-it-up or get out". They voted on and accepted this "duty" or "responsibility" for the betterment of their congregation. No one has been denied access to usage of the church for functions, based on their ability to pay.

 

Would someone have to rent part of the building, to use for a wedding or other occasion ? Are there rules as to when and where a member of your church can use the building and/or rooms ?

 

I am curious, and am only "counter-pointing" to your view to see how things are done where you are.

Edited by ligonier

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If what you say is true, then your church is the exception, and not the rule. I have spoken with freinds who attend other churches, and yes they get assesed for various church needs, and i have heard that other churches will not bury a non member. So i guess that the Molokans are not the only no goodniks

 

ligonier & Dz. Squally

 

To expand a bit

 

The Church isn't a building, rather it's the sum total of all Christians worldwide who together worship the one and only true Living God

 

Our particular group de-emphasizes ceremony and just teaches the Bible cover to cover

 

As people grow in the understand of who God is, His plans for us and His infinite love toward us, we begin to respond, not out of compulsion but out of our gratitude

 

It seems to work well

    "4 We are all one body, we have the same Spirit, and we have all been called to the same glorious future. 5 There is only one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 and there is only one God and Father, who is over us all and in us all and living through us all." (Ephesians 4:4-6 NLT)

Who is the us the above passage speaks about? It's speaking to all Christians

 

So if we are all supposed to be one, why can you attend a Bible study at another gathering (seeing as we're all one and all)

 

Or can we come over next Saturday and have a Bar-B-Que?

 

If not, why not?

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Seeking, first please check your spelling, I think your points might come out clearer, and we wouldn't have to guess. ;) Reread your post.

 

Second, I might be the wrong one to ask these questions to. I have no problem attending any Bible study, consience-wise. In other words, I would want to be compatible with the people who I would be studying with, but would not care which Christian religion they were associated with. And, if there weren't already things going-on Saturday, you'd be welcome to come over. B)

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I have a question for you Seeking. What if someone came to your church and wanted to have a complete Sunday service performed in Russian ? What if they wanted all speeches and singing done in Russian, and the service performed in the style of the molokan church ? What if this person was a regular attending member of your congregation and wanted to get married in the church you attend, but wanted to have the ceremony done exactly like the molokan style wedding ? Would this be allowed ? Would someone have to rent part of the building, to use for such an occasion ? Are there rules as to when and where a member of your church can use the building and/or rooms ? How does your church determine membership (who is a member, who is not) ?

 

I am curious, and am only "counter-pointing" to your view to see how things are done where you are.

    Before I reply again , again , I want to explain again I'm NOT molokan bashing
     
    There are the 3 groups within the molokan community we have discussed before
     
    Group 1 - 66 Book, Jesus died on the Cross for my sin, can't make on my own efforts Christians (I have no problem with them - how can I?)
     
    Group 2 - Traditionalists: You "make it" to Heaven through a "hodge-podge" of ceremony, good works, lineage etc...
     
    Group 3 - Occultists: The 2 book, we're of the woman of the seed, we have our "special" way to Heaven by MGR + ceremony, good works, lineage etc...
     
    Group 2 has placed ceremony, good works, lineage etc.. ahead of Jesus
     
    Group 3 has placed rudometkin/S & L instead of Jesus
     
     
    I'm directing ALL of my attention to groups 2 & 3
     
    Group 1 should know what is proper (scripturally speaking)

To Continue...

 

Liggie-Baby (I guess you can't do that on MSN anymore) ;)

 

Why would they do that?

We live in America don't we?

 

Honestly, if there was a group of Russians who came and only spoke Russian, the group we attend would find someone who could teach them in their native language

 

However, the only Russians I've seen that come through the door all speak English better than they could speak Russian

 

Why teach them in a second language that they have less of a mastery of?

 

How can you get down (as it were) into the Greek & Hebrew when you can barely understand Russian?

 

It's the reason why we're going to be adding a Spanish service

 

Once again it comes down to teaching of God's Word above culture

 

There isn't ANY membership... Just show up, period.

 

No forms to fill out, no dues etc...Just come in, sit down and learn

 

No special clothing or anything like that. Come just as you are

 

As you hear the Word taught you will learn what's proper and appropriate

 

Now if I opened a Church group in Russian, you betcha' we'd do it in Russian

    "1 If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth but didn`t love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I knew all the mysteries of the future and knew everything about everything, but didn`t love others, what good would I be? And if I had the gift of faith so that I could speak to a mountain and make it move, without love I would be no good to anybody." (1 Corinthians 13:1-2 NLT)

I guess I could ask the same question of you if a Hispanic group wanted to worship with you

 

"And then he told them, "Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone, everywhere." (Mark 16:15 NLT)

 

They would be excluded because of race not language

 

Why is it when the boy prophet gave the prophecy for the Armenians and Russians to come to the United States and the Russians threw the Armenians out after a time?

 

Traditions and culture are in the way of the teaching of God's Word on a wholesale level within Group 2 & 3 molokan churches

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If someone "didn't have the dough", it would be taken care of. Help comes to the needy. Access is not denied to the word of God.

Actually, yes it is...

 

A Hispanic, Asian, Black, Green or Blue (a.k.a ANY non-Russian) person walking down the street would not be welcomed and could not become a member of a molokan church

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I guess the point of the questioning I was using was too vague. I'll have to rewrite my thought process so you might be able to understand where I tried to go with this. I'll try again in the morning when I'm fresh. :wacko:

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I guess the point of the questioning I was using was too vague. I'll have to rewrite my thought process so you might be able to understand where I tried to go with this. I'll try again in the morning when I'm fresh. :wacko:

peace ... Out

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whoa...what language are we speaking in here? Looks like some spanish...chinese..english...and possibly russian??? hehe

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Hate when this happens, spent some time writing a post, hit send, got "this page not available" screen - no more post. Makes me kranky. Will attempt again later. 4 paragraphs flushed....

 

Hey Seeking, "Peace, Out" ???? What, are you channeling Seacrest or something ? A little of the 90's popping up ? Later, dude..........

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Alright....BBQ on Saturday

 

 

We still need a place to meet and someone to purchase paper goods, beverages....oh yeah! I'll bring dessert.

 

Here is the list:

 

Anakainosis - ' Kasha Kismish'

Seeking - BBQ (hey, bring those cool baskets ;) )

Sadichka - dessert

*vacant* - paper goods

*vacant* - meeting place

*vacant* - beverages

 

 

Yo 'Seekie'....maybe those 'blue' and 'green' people that you were talking about can bring ice....

 

This is beginning to look like a fundraiser.... :crazy:

 

Sada _vti_cnf

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  • Like always here comes seeking again...

 

Going to put a Bible spin on this...

 

Where will they just quit it?

I have a real problem with fund raisers

 

It seems to me that the people needing to continually raise funds possibly serve a god (lower case g) that's broke

 

Putting the "bite" on families after "surveys" to the tune of 6 grand to do "god's" work

 

The God I serve isn't broke... In fact quite the opposite -

10 For all the animals of the forest are mine,and I own the cattle on a thousand hills.

11 Every bird of the mountainsand all the animals of the field belong to me.

12 If I were hungry, I would not mention it to you,for all the world is mine and everything in it. (Psalm 50:10-12 NLT)

 

He doesn't need my money or does He want me to beg to "pump life" into something that's needs to die

1 Unless the LORD builds a house,the work of the builders is useless. Unless the LORD protects a city,guarding it with sentries will do no good.

2 It is useless for you to work so hardfrom early morning until late at night, anxiously working for food to eat;for God gives rest to his loved ones. (Psalm 127:-2 NLT)

 

There are examples of needs being met in the Bible. In the Biblical examples it was never through raffles and "fund raisers" - A "give to get" arrangement

 

When Moses was given the command to build the Tabernacle, he found the 2 Spirit filled craftsmen to act as project coordinators. Then put the word out to the people regarding the need. Moses did chage the group "dues" or a "special assesment". He instructed the people to give as they were lead of God.

5 Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever [is] of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,

6 And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' [hair],

7 And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,

8 And oil for the light, and spices for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense,

9 And onyx stones, and stones to be set for the ephod, and for the breastplate. (Exodus 35:5-9 KJV)

 

Notice it's out of a willing heart...not out of compulsion or guilt. No raffle tickets or chance to win a new car, just a willing heart to give to the Lord's work.

 

I say

  • If you have to compel people to give with gimmicks, your god is broke
  • If you give out of compulsion, it's better to keep it than to waste it on the works of men
The Bible states7 You must each make up your own mind as to how much you should give. Don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. For God loves the person who gives cheerfully.

8 And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. (2 Corinthians 9:7-8 NLT)

Again notice the giving should not be reluctantly or in response to pressure

 

I say give as the Lord leads and for the right reasons... I you cannot give like that, keep your money...God doesn't need it

 

As a parting question: If no one from the community got shahlik (or anything), would anyone give? If you then did give, what is your motivation?

 

Honest answers please

 

 

=====================

 

IN A CHURCH SUCH AS OURS---WE DO NOT HAVE A STRICT----COLLECTION---OF CHURCH DUES-----LIKE A TAX---OR A TITHE----

 

WE ARE STRICTLY VOLUNTEER--WHEN IT COMES TO MONEY----AND I SAY---LET IT BE AS IT IS---DONT FIX IT IF IT AINT BROKE---

 

AND IF YOU HAVE A BETTER WAY---THEN YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT--LOL--BUT REALLY---THE LORD SHALL PROVIDE--

 

I AHVE A FIRM BELIEF----IF ANY THING REALLY---NEEDS TO BE DONE---THE LORD WILL APPOINT SOMEONE TO DO IT---

 

YEARS AGO----I REMEMBER THE UMCA---WAS ON THE VERGE OF BANKRUPTCY AND NO MONEY---AND EVERYONE WAS

 

BEING SELFISH AND STINGY ---- AWFULL ---JUST AWFULL---...WELL...--THE LORD LAID IT UPON SOMEONES HEART TO

 

DONATE A PROFIT WINDFALL-- TO THE CHURCH-- AND IT PAID OFF THE MORTGAGE---ON THE CHURCH---

 

AND THAT WAS THAT AND SETTLED THE STORM---AND CALMED THE NERVES OF THE PEOPLE---

 

SO----DONT WORRY---DONT HAVE ANY DOUBTS---ONLY BELIEVE UPON THE LORD OUR GOD-----AND HE WILL--PROVIDE!

 

==========================================

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You seem to have left you finiancial record keeping at the door. All Molokan churches have levied tax obligation on it's members for ALL major improvments and/or land purchaces and building. Lake Avenue with it's beautiful parking lot which is only full when borsh is served and God's Truth is not proclaimed. Why are collections being collected to this day for the building of Milikoy? No membership assessment for the new Freeway Church? Come now?

 

lastinline (where the narrow path leads to the God-Man, Jesus Christ alone - Isaiah 9:6)

 

'thenarrowpath' date='Oct 19 2009, 05:54 PM' post='38078']

IN A CHURCH SUCH AS OURS---WE DO NOT HAVE A STRICT----COLLECTION---OF CHURCH DUES-----LIKE A TAX---OR A TITHE----

 

WE ARE STRICTLY VOLUNTEER--WHEN IT COMES TO MONEY----AND I SAY---LET IT BE AS IT IS---DONT FIX IT IF IT AINT BROKE---

 

AND IF YOU HAVE A BETTER WAY---THEN YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT--LOL--BUT REALLY---THE LORD SHALL PROVIDE--

 

I AHVE A FIRM BELIEF----IF ANY THING REALLY---NEEDS TO BE DONE---THE LORD WILL APPOINT SOMEONE TO DO IT---

 

YEARS AGO----I REMEMBER THE UMCA---WAS ON THE VERGE OF BANKRUPTCY AND NO MONEY---AND EVERYONE WAS

 

BEING SELFISH AND STINGY ---- AWFULL ---JUST AWFULL---...WELL...--THE LORD LAID IT UPON SOMEONES HEART TO

 

DONATE A PROFIT WINDFALL-- TO THE CHURCH-- AND IT PAID OFF THE MORTGAGE---ON THE CHURCH---

 

AND THAT WAS THAT AND SETTLED THE STORM---AND CALMED THE NERVES OF THE PEOPLE---

 

SO----DONT WORRY---DONT HAVE ANY DOUBTS---ONLY BELIEVE UPON THE LORD OUR GOD-----AND HE WILL--PROVIDE!

 

==========================================

 

 

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As I said before, My God IS NOT broke

 

The notion of mandating "giving" is not Scriptural

 

Have you even given it a thought that maybe you a propping up a dead entity?

 

You even can make a dead man do a little dance with enough current

 

As each person has purposed in thier own heart...not grudgingly

 

How can you cay something is "awful" when they don't give?

 

I thought you said it was all "voluntary"?

 

By the way, typing in ALL CAPS is akin to yelling online

 

FYI

 

 

=====================

 

IN A CHURCH SUCH AS OURS---WE DO NOT HAVE A STRICT----COLLECTION---OF CHURCH DUES-----LIKE A TAX---OR A TITHE----

 

WE ARE STRICTLY VOLUNTEER--WHEN IT COMES TO MONEY----AND I SAY---LET IT BE AS IT IS---DONT FIX IT IF IT AINT BROKE---

 

AND IF YOU HAVE A BETTER WAY---THEN YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT--LOL--BUT REALLY---THE LORD SHALL PROVIDE--

 

I AHVE A FIRM BELIEF----IF ANY THING REALLY---NEEDS TO BE DONE---THE LORD WILL APPOINT SOMEONE TO DO IT---

 

YEARS AGO----I REMEMBER THE UMCA---WAS ON THE VERGE OF BANKRUPTCY AND NO MONEY---AND EVERYONE WAS

 

BEING SELFISH AND STINGY ---- AWFULL ---JUST AWFULL---...WELL...--THE LORD LAID IT UPON SOMEONES HEART TO

 

DONATE A PROFIT WINDFALL-- TO THE CHURCH-- AND IT PAID OFF THE MORTGAGE---ON THE CHURCH---

 

AND THAT WAS THAT AND SETTLED THE STORM---AND CALMED THE NERVES OF THE PEOPLE---

 

SO----DONT WORRY---DONT HAVE ANY DOUBTS---ONLY BELIEVE UPON THE LORD OUR GOD-----AND HE WILL--PROVIDE!

 

==========================================

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