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Is There Any Jewishness In Us?

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Hello. I am new to this site and blown away that one even exists.

 

We seem to celebrate many of the Jewish High Holy Celebrations and I have often wondered if the Molokans have any Jewish blood?

 

I was raised Molokan, broke away from the tradition, got "saved" attended American churches and now feel a real pull to the Jewish faith although I have a problem with them not accepting Jesus, but its the same God and many of the Molokans are counting salvation on works rather than what was acomplished at the cross.

 

Anyway, does anyone know??? I am desperate to know.

 

Thanks, Kitten

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From all the research and history I've read or seen, there is no direct link of Hebrew blood in the Russian Molokan lineage.

 

Israeli / Hebrew / Jews are very lineage "oriented", as a people. They keep track of that stuff.

 

Although I'm no expert.

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Hello. I am new to this site and blown away that one even exists.

 

We seem to celebrate many of the Jewish High Holy Celebrations and I have often wondered if the Molokans have any Jewish blood?

 

I was raised Molokan, broke away from the tradition, got "saved" attended American churches and now feel a real pull to the Jewish faith although I have a problem with them not accepting Jesus, but its the same God and many of the Molokans are counting salvation on works rather than what was acomplished at the cross.

 

Anyway, does anyone know??? I am desperate to know.

 

Thanks, Kitten

 

 

I would like to answer your question. This is what Uncle Bill told me once. "Abraham is not the father of those who have been circumcised: he is the father of those who make the same act of faith in God as he made". If you accept God at his word as Abraham did than you are Abraham's descendant, because you trust in God as he did. Molokan or not has nothing to do with it, it is your faith and your trust in God which brings you into a right relationship with God.

 

EGK

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"31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham`s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How [can] you say, ˜You will be made free`?"

34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.

35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, [but] a son abides forever.

36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. 37 "I know that you are Abraham`s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you." (John 8:31-37 NKJV)

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"31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham`s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How [can] you say, ˜You will be made free`?"

34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.

35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, [but] a son abides forever.

36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. 37 "I know that you are Abraham`s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you." (John 8:31-37 NKJV)

 

 

"For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath wherof to glory; but not before God.

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." (Romans 4:1-2)

 

"And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness." (Genesis 15:6)

 

"In thee all the families of the earth shall be blessed." (Genesis 12:3)

 

Through Jesus Christ, of the line of David from the patriarch Abraham all the earth has been blessed.

 

"The descendants of Abraham are not the members of any particular nation, but those in every nation who belong to the family of God". William Barclay

 

EGK

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Hello. I am new to this site and blown away that one even exists.

 

We seem to celebrate many of the Jewish High Holy Celebrations and I have often wondered if the Molokans have any Jewish blood?

 

I was raised Molokan, broke away from the tradition, got "saved" attended American churches and now feel a real pull to the Jewish faith although I have a problem with them not accepting Jesus, but its the same God and many of the Molokans are counting salvation on works rather than what was acomplished at the cross.

 

Anyway, does anyone know??? I am desperate to know.

 

Thanks, Kitten

===============================

YES...WE DO HAVE AA CONNECTION THRU THE BIBLE AND A BLOODLINE CONNECTION....BUT WE ALSO HAVE A MIXED BLOODLINE CONNECTION TO MANY PEOPLE....IF YOU STUDY RUSSIAN HISTORY--PRE MOLOKON TIMES----WHEN RUSSIA WAS COLONIZED---AND THE MONGOLS CAME AND CONQUERED RUSSIA..AND THEN THE DANISH-SWEDES----AND OTHERS CAME AND RE-CONQUERED AND TOOK THE LAND BACK---THEN ESTABLISHED THE RUSSIAN KINGDOM--AND THE RUSSIAN CSARS...WERE ESTABLISHED---THEN THE ORTHODOX CHURCH CAME TO RUSSIA....WITH THERE TEACHINGS....

 

HERES A LINK TO ANCIENT RUSSIAN HISTORY----THIS WILL GIVE YOU A START TO DISCOVERING YOUR HISTORICAL RUSSIAN ROOTS----ITS A FASCINATING STORY AND JOURNEY OF SELF-DISCOVERY

http://www.geographia.com/russia/rushis02.htm

 

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1. Depends on how you define Jews. I find little genealogical evidence to suspect there are but a few close descendants of Jews who migrated to the US and continue to attend services.

 

2. The founder of the sect "molokane", S. Uklein, tried to merge his followers with the followers of a Dalmatov who were labeled "subbotniki" because they tried to be like the Jews, though they were ethnically Russians. See www.subbotniki.net Uklein had to compromise by adding a few Old Testament holidays to the Molokan holidays and eliminate pork in the diet.

 

3. Many such Sabbatarian movements appeared in Europe and many non-ethnic Jews believe in the Saturday sabbath and OT holidays. Do a search for "Sabbatarian" Some have evolved into Seventh-Day Adventists.

 

4. The merging of "milk-drinkers" (molokane) with "Saturday people" (subbotniki) caused a split. One group retained the original faith and holidays and became called "postoiiannie" (Sunday Molokans, constant, steadfast, unchanged ), the other was labeled "subbotniki molokane" (Saturday Molokans) who adapted the jewish-like holidays and day of worship. There may have been an in-between group of that met on Sunday but adapted the new holidays.

 

5. About 1820-1830, the Saturday Molokans, who migrated to New Russia (South Ukraine, Milky Waters area) met German Piests (Separatists) who were migrating from Germany to Israel, who jumped to the Holy Spirit and prophesied about the Apocalypse. The new information caused new sects to form. One group was called Jumpers (pryguny), former Molokans who followed about 10 holidays but met on Sunday. At this time it was illegal to met on Saturday.

 

6. After 1849, when Jumpers arrived in the Caucasus, those in central Erevan Governate (now Armenia) who were led by MG Rudomiotkin were told to abandon their original Molokan holidays, forming a new sect of Jumper-Maksimisty.

 

7. In 1928, the Book of Sun: Spirit and Life was published in Los Angeles, and the majority who were Jumpers were coerced to accept the new "obriad" (rituals, liturgy). No Molokan or Jumper "sobranie" (assembly) was allowed and all Molokan holidays had to be abandoned, which occurred by the 1940s. The UMCA kept some of the Jumper holidays, notably the Birth of Christ, for which they were severely criticized by the Maksimist Young Church formed 1/2 block away.

 

See: www.#############/#######/#######/#########.###

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Hello. I am new to this site and blown away that one even exists.

 

We seem to celebrate many of the Jewish High Holy Celebrations and I have often wondered if the Molokans have any Jewish blood?

 

I was raised Molokan, broke away from the tradition, got "saved" attended American churches and now feel a real pull to the Jewish faith although I have a problem with them not accepting Jesus, but its the same God and many of the Molokans are counting salvation on works rather than what was acomplished at the cross.

 

Anyway, does anyone know??? I am desperate to know.

 

Thanks, Kitten

 

 

I would like to answer your question. This is what Uncle Bill told me once. "Abraham is not the father of those who have been circumcised: he is the father of those who make the same act of faith in God as he made". If you accept God at his word as Abraham did than you are Abraham's descendant, because you trust in God as he did. Molokan or not has nothing to do with it, it is your faith and your trust in God which brings you into a right relationship with God.

 

EGK

 

 

UNCLE BILL WHO?

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The Molokan people are NOT Jews. I don't believe there is any Jewishness in us at all.

 

First off, the Jews are ONLY 2 of the 12 tribes of Israel: the tribe of Judah and Benjamin (The House of Judah). The other 10 tribes of Israel (House of Israel) are also NOT Jews. Any Christian of today is, I believe, from those 10 tribes. This of course is all found in the Old Testament.

 

Lets start with the blessing upon Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Manasseh:

 

Genesis 48:14-20

14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,

16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.

 

In Hebrew the exact translation of "Multitude of Nations" means "fullness of the non-Hebrews" implying that they will become Gentiles.

 

Now it is also prophesied of the House of Israel:

 

They will forget the name of God (Jeremiah 23:27)

How many Christians really KNOW God's name? Not too many, but more are learning everyday.

They will live among the Gentiles (Hosea 8:8)

Where do we live? Among Gentiles.

They will forget the law of God (Hosea 8:12)

How many Christians today actually follow the law of God? Very few.

They will be called "not My people" (Hosea 2:23)

Being a Gentile meant that we were not God's people.

They are called "far off" (Isaiah 57:19)

We were far off, but are 'close' now. Ephesians 2:13 - But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

They are the Lost Sheep (Jeremiah 50:6)

Who did Jesus come for? Matthew 15:24 - But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

This fits Christianity perfectly. It is also prophesied that Christ will gather us back to Him (Jeremiah 23:3-8). This began during Jesus' ministry. He made the apostles to be fishers of men. We are spreading the good news to call back those of the 10 tribes to Jesus. And the great thing is that all who believe on Jesus and obey God will be considered a part of those 10 tribes.

 

Following the law of God does not make us Jews. It makes us obedient to God.

 

Now for the Jews... they too will be saved.

 

Jeremiah 23:6

In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely:...

 

Christians (House of Israel) will live safely because we're already saved. But the Jews, in my opinion, will suffer through tribulation to then become believers... they 'shall' be saved. Jesus died for BOTH houses - the House of Judah and the House of Israel.

 

John 11:51-52

And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

 

The existing nation was Judah. The one's scattered abroad are the House of Israel (Deuteronomy 30:3).

 

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Hey mud,

 

You have got to look more into that Ephraimite thing, this has been going on for the most part about 100 years. It started with something called British-Israelism, and has been changed and revamped several times since then by different men.

 

Check out this link.

 

It is not gospel, just like Eddie Chumney and the rest, but it is a thorough look at this topic.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

d

Edited by Disciple

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Disciple,

 

Yeah, I believe that guy is off the mark. He tries to point to the thought that people are claiming inheritance because of blood lines. This just isn't so.

 

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Firstly, the lost tribes are not the Jews. Jews ONLY came from two of the tribes (House of Judah). Judah --> Judites --> Jews.

 

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Secondly, this is not about racism or blood-line inheritance as this writer tries to imply. It's about correctly understanding the power of God and His divine plan. Surely the 12 tribes did not consist of only anglo-saxon people as the writer tries to submit. We learn this from reading God's instructions to His people.

 

Exodus 12:48

And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

 

There are three importances for the people of God:

1. Sojourn with thee - Live by faith

2. Keep the passover - A reference to keeping God's laws (following the guidelines of the covenant)

3. Be circumcised - The sign of following God's covenant by faith

 

If these three things were fulfilled, then that person was surely a part of God's people no matter where they came from - no matter what race. Racism has nothing to do with this.

 

Leviticus 19:33-34

And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.

But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

 

Ezekiel 47:21-23

So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel.

And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.

 

Beautiful examples of God’s acceptance, and His requirements for becoming a part of His people. Again, the writer you presented is wrong in thinking this is about race.

 

Now as for the two Olive trees. Speaking to Israel, the LORD says:

 

Jeremiah 11:16

The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.

 

The olive tree then became TWO. The LORD broke it, split it into two trees. Now we have a cultivated olive tree on one side - House of Judah, and a wild olive tree on the other - House of Israel. They used to be one tree, but now are two.

 

The two sticks are to become one:

 

Ezekiel 37:16-22

Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah,and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:

And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

 

The word 'stick' above in Hebrew is 'ets' which actually means 'tree'. So the prophecy from Ezekiel is specifically about gathering His people from all the nations together with Judah. So He will bring us together with the Jews in the end times, and we will again become ONE people, ONE kingdom.

 

God was directly speaking with the 'son of man' concerning this prophecy. Who is the son of man? Jesus Christ, our one King.

 

This is God's mission given to His Son Jesus Christ; to reunite the tribes as one kingdom!

 

Ezekiel 37:23-24

Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

 

Now how was Christ supposed to do this? God divorced the House of Israel (Jeremiah 3:8). So by God's own law of divorce (Deuteronomy 24), He cannot take Israel (10 tribes) back again. The only way for that law to be removed is if the husband dies. Jesus came and died on the cross to remove THAT LAW. Now He can freely take us (the church, all 12 tribes) for a wife again.

 

Check out Romans 7:1-6! Paul is writing to believers, not Jews. And he's specifically referencing what I just wrote above. About how by Jesus' death, the law of divorce is removed. So putting two and two together... if Paul is writing to non-Jews about how they are no longer under the divorce that God gave them, then it goes to prove that all current day Christians are considered to be as the House of Israel.

 

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Thirdly, we can take a look at the lost sheep. The lost sheep are clearly defined in Matthew 10:6 as being the House of Israel... not the House of Judah, NOT THE JEWS.

The writer's explanation of John 10:16 is just confusing. Jeremiah makes it very clear that there are many 'folds' of sheep within the ONE flock.

 

Jeremiah 23:3-8

And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

 

This post is getting long, but ultimately, this writer's understanding isn't justified... and definitely not with clear explanations of scripture. We cannot deny the blessings given to Ephraim and Manasseh, or to the 12 sons of Jacob. They are very real and very specific to the end times. In fact just preceding the blessings, Jacob says this:

 

Genesis 49:1

And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

 

These blessings are prophecies of things that will happen in the last days. They are happening now. I think I've shown how anyone can become part of those 12 tribes by God's own commandments. So this rules out race. And I think I've explained the two olive trees, and the folds of sheep in Jesus' flock. I may have missed a few things, but here's a couple links to sources of great information.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR3QyHN-gXQ

http://stevenmcollins.com/index.html

 

One other thing. Take the characteristics of the House of Israel which I wrote in my previous post and see if they can be applied to the Jews today. It can't be done. The Jews did not forget God's name. They have always lived in groups together, not necessarily among Gentiles. They have not forgotten God's law. They are not 'far off' when the majority of them live directly in Israel. And finally, they are not the lost sheep.

 

I hope that helps explain my views and understanding.

 

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Could it really be all about Israel?

 

12 tribes with one king - 12 apostles with one Messiah

12 baskets left over full of bread

Jesus says in Matthew 19:28 "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

Jesus heals a girl that is 12 years old

Jesus starts teaching in the temple when He was 12

He says there are 12 hours in a day (John 11:9)

12 months in a year

In Revelation there are 12,000 members from each tribe that are sealed

12 angels

24 elders (2 from each tribe)

12 gates with 12 pearls

12 constellations in the heavens

A tree of life that produces 12 fruits for each of the 12 months

 

There is ONE GOD

There is ONE COVENANT

There is ONE LAW

There is ONE MESSIAH

There is ONE PEOPLE

 

~ Jim Staley

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