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Clean/unclean Foods.

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We as Molokans and maybe some who are not must know that the law of

our God (Alkhayim) God of Israel and Father of his Son our Lord

Jesus Christ is not abolished. Many false Christians claim this as

fact but here I will try to prove them wrong. First we will start

off in Leviticus where the food law's are located.

 

Levi 11:3 (NKJV) 3 Among the animals, whatever divides the hoof,

having cloven hooves and chewing the cud--that you may eat. 4

Nevertheless these you shall not eat among those that chew the cud

or those that have cloven hooves: the camel, because it chews the

cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 5 the rock

hyrax, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is

unclean to you; 6 the hare, because it chews the cud but does not

have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 7 and the swine, though it

divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud,

is unclean to you. 8 Their flesh you shall not eat, and their

carcasses you shall not touch. They are unclean to you. 9 'These you

may eat of all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins

and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers--that you may eat.

10 But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and

scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in

the water, they are an abomination to you. 11 They shall be an

abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall

regard their carcasses as an abomination. 12 Whatever in the water

does not have fins or scales--that shall be an abomination to you.

13 'And these you shall regard as an abomination among the birds;

they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, the

vulture, the buzzard, 14 the kite, and the falcon after its kind; 15

every raven after its kind, 16 the ostrich, the short-eared owl, the

sea gull, and the hawk after its kind; 17 the little owl, the fisher

owl, and the screech owl; 18 the white owl, the jackdaw, and the

carrion vulture; 19 the stork, the heron after its kind, the hoopoe,

and the bat. 20 'All flying insects that creep on all fours shall be

an abomination to you. 21 Yet these you may eat of every flying

insect that creeps on all fours: those which have jointed legs above

their feet with which to leap on the earth. 22 These you may eat:

the locust after its kind, the destroying locust after its kind, the

cricket after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind. 23 But

all other flying insects which have four feet shall be an

abomination to you.

 

 

God is our Creator. He also created all the animals and every living

thing on earth. Some animals were created to CLEAN the earth and

sea. Primarily, these are the animals that God does not want us to

consume. God clearly in his law, tell's us what and what not to eat.

With these standards in mind God says that "Among the animals,

whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves [and] chewing the

cud--that you may eat." Truly, God knows what is best for us. One

animal that God and all of our forefathers seemed to link with

unclean, evil and filth was the swine. Even in those days, swine

were often eaten just as they are today, sadly many would claim that

since we have now domesticated the swine and the swine is fed grains

and such, that it is a clean food. But the pig still does not chew

the cud. Therefore it is unclean according to the word of God. Also,

all the other animals that don't meet the critica in the above

passage are not to be consumed. As we go on I want you to remember

that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit:

 

 

1Cor 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the

Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not

your own?

 

If the body we have is not our own, but rather given to us by God,

then we must take care of it and not defile it. We must present our

bodies as holy and acceptable to God:

 

 

Roma 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,

that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to

God, which is your reasonable service.

 

Knowing this, let's consider some other scriptures that speak of the

importance of not eating unclean animals. Here is a passage that has

yet to be fulfilled:

 

 

Isai 66:16 For by fire and by His sword God will judge all flesh;

And the slain of God shall be many. "Those who sanctify themselves

and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the

midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall

be consumed together," says God.

 

Checking the context, we find that it is very clear that this is yet

future:

 

 

Isai 66:18 "For I [know] their works and their thoughts. It shall be

that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and

see My glory. 19 "I will set a sign among them; and those among them

who escape I will send to the nations: [to] Tarshish and Pul and

Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, [to] the coastlands afar

off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall

declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 "Then they shall bring all

your brethren for an offering to Yahweh out of all nations, on

horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My

holy mountain Jerusalem," says the Lord, "as the children of Israel

bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of God. 21 "And I

will also take some of them for priests [and] Levites," says the

Lord. 22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make

shall remain before Me," says the Lord, "So shall your descendants

and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass [That] from one

New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh

shall come to worship before Me," says the Lord.

 

So, judging by the context we see that this proclamation of God

destroying those who eat pig is yet future. Why then do so many

believe that it is now acceptable to eat unclean animals? Many

believe that our Lord Jesus Christ declared all foods clean in Mark

7:19. Let's take a look at the context.

 

 

Mark 7:1 Then the Pharisees and some of the scribes came together to

Him, having come from Jerusalem. 2 Now when they saw some of His

disciples eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they

found fault. 3 For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless

they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the

elders.

 

Note that this is a tradition of the elders and not a commandment

from God. Although it is not evil to eat with washed hands, it is

not a commandment from God either. This is Jesus's point. He

mentions that their priorities are wrong in whom they choose to

obey. Let's go on.....

 

 

4 When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they

wash. And there are many other things which they have received and

hold, like the washing of cups, pitchers, copper vessels, and

couches. 5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, "Why do Your

disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat

bread with unwashed hands?" 6 He answered and said to them, "Well

did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: `This

people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 7

And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments

of men.'

 

Here it is saying that it is vain to worship Him with the doctrines

and commandments of men.

 

 

8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition

of men--the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things

you do." 9 He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment

of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 "For Moses said, `Honor

your father and your mother'; and, `He who curses father or mother,

let him be put to death.' 11 "But you say, `If a man says to his

father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me

is Corban"--' (that is, a gift [to] [God]), 12 "then you no longer

let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 "making the

word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have

handed down. And many such things you do." 14 When He had called all

the multitude to Himself, He said to them, "Hear Me, everyone, and

understand: 15 "There is nothing that enters a man from outside

which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those

are the things that defile a man. 16 "If anyone has ears to hear,

let him hear!" 17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd,

His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18 So He said to

them, "Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive

that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him,

19 "because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is

eliminated, thus purifying all foods?"

 

Other translations end this verse with "[This he said], making all

meats clean. (ASV)" But this is not in the majority of Greek

manuscripts, as well as the Aramaic. This is obviously a note added

to the book of Mark that someone will have to answer for on judgment

day. First of all, it is not a correct statement. Christ was not

talking about clean / unclean foods but whether or not God commanded

us to eat with washed hands which He clearly did not.

 

 

20 And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man.

21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts,

adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 "thefts, covetousness,

wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride,

foolishness. 23 "All these evil things come from within and defile a

man."

 

Consider the parallel of Jesus's saying here in the book of Matthew:

 

 

Matt 15:19 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders,

adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

20 "These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with

unwashed hands does not defile a man."

 

Therefore, it is clear that God's perfect law was not changed here.

Many believe that this commandment was abolished in Acts chapter 10.

Once again, let's take a close look at the context below.

 

 

Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a

centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man

and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms

generously to the people, and prayed to God always. 3 About the

ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God

coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" 4 And when he observed

him, he was afraid, and said, "What is it, Master?" So he said to

him, "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before

God. 5 "Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is

Peter. 6 "He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the

sea. He will tell you what you must do." 7 And when the angel who

spoke to him had departed, Cornelius called two of his household

servants and a devout soldier from among those who waited on him

continually. 8 So when he had explained all [these] things to them,

he sent them to Joppa. 9 The next day, as they went on their journey

and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about

the sixth hour.10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but

while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven

opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners,

descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds

of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things,

and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill

and eat." 14 But Peter said, "Not so, Master! For I have never eaten

anything common or unclean."

 

Now consider this, I find it very interesting that Peter has never

eaten anything common or unclean before. Yet this is many years

after Christ's resurrection and ascension. If Jesus had declared all

foods clean in Mark 7:19 then why does he (Peter) still hold to the

commandment not to do so? And even go a step further and reject the

voice that told him to do so !?

 

 

15 And a voice [spoke] to him again the second time, "What God has

cleansed you must not call common." 16 This was done three times.

And the object was taken up into heaven again. 17 Now while Peter

wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant,

behold, the men who had been sent from Cornelius had made inquiry

for Simon's house, and stood before the gate.

 

Now many would like to stop right here and say that now it is ok to

eat unclean animals. But according to the previous verse, Peter

himself didn't even know what the vision meant. How then can we

interpret the vision? We must read on..

 

 

18 And they called and asked whether Simon, whose surname was Peter,

was lodging there. 19 While Peter thought about the vision, the

Spirit said to him, "Behold, three men are seeking you. 20 "Arise

therefore, go down and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have

sent them." 21 Then Peter went down to the men who had been sent to

him from Cornelius, and said, "Yes, I am he whom you seek. For what

reason have you come?" 22 And they said, "Cornelius [the] centurion,

a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all

the nation of the Jews, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to

summon you to his house, and to hear words from you." 23 Then he

invited them in and lodged [them]. On the next day Peter went away

with them, and some brethren from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And the

following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for

them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As

Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and

worshiped [him]. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I

myself am also a man." 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and

found many who had come together. 28 Then he said to them, "You know

how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to

one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call

any man common or unclean.

 

So this vision was not God trying to show Peter that it is now okay

to eat unclean foods, but rather it was God showing Peter and the

rest of the disciples that they are to go unto the gentiles (Ten

lost tribes) too! Jesus had commanded the disciples to "Go therefore

and make disciples of all the nations.." But they had not done so.

So God sent a vision to Peter to show that it is not against the

commandment of God to go unto the gentiles (Ten lost tribes).

 

28 Then he said to them, "You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish

man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has

shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

29 "Therefore I came without objection as soon as I was sent for. I

ask, then, for what reason have you sent for me?" 30 So Cornelius

said, "Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth

hour I prayed in my house, and behold, a man stood before me in

bright clothing, 31 "and said, `Cornelius, your prayer has been

heard, and your alms are remembered in the sight of God. 32 `Send

therefore to Joppa and call Simon here, whose surname is Peter. He

is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea. When he

comes, he will speak to you.' 33 "So I sent to you immediately, and

you have done well to come. Now therefore, we are all present before

Yahweh, to hear all the things commanded you by God." 34 Then Peter

opened [his] mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no

partiality. 35 "But in every nation whoever fears Him and works

righteousness is accepted by Him.

 

We'll stop here but later in the chapter, God works a miracle when

He pours out His spirit unto the gentiles in the presence of the

Jews by having them speak in tongues. So by reading this vision, we

gain understanding of what it means. Another place that some point

to to say that God has changed His mind on his commandment not to

eat unclean foods is in 1 Timothy:

 

 

1Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some

will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and

doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own

conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, [and]

[commanding] to abstain from foods which God created to be received

with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

 

Now if what Paul is speaking of here is the doctrine of abstaining

from eating unclean animals then why does he refer to this doctrine

as one of the 'doctrines of demons' ? Is it not a doctrine of our

living God? It is a doctrine of God, not a doctrine of demons. Can

you see the difference?

 

 

4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing is to be refused

if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the

word of God and prayer.

 

Some have mistakenly thought that as long as they pray before they

eat an unclean animal, that God cleanses it for them. This is not

true. First we must identify what is food. According to God's word,

unclean animals never were, aren't now and never will be "food." We

are told in verse 5 that all the creatures of God are sanctified by

His word. Sanctified means "Set apart". God set apart which animals

are clean and which animals are unclean in His word. God's creation

is to be "received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know

the truth." What is truth? God's word. Which in part was given to us

through his Son Jesus Christ his son our King of Kings. And also of

whom Jesus sent our Leader the King Sprits, наше новое ЮлиÑ, the final

conqueror of the Beast who will rule rule with Christ for a thousand

years in the fields of Sardarabat near mount Ugvair, Amen.

 

Isai 52:11 Depart! Depart! Go out from there, Touch no unclean

[thing]; Go out from the midst of her, Be clean, You who bear the

vessels of God.

 

Paul quotes this verse in 1 Corinthians 10:11 and 2 Corinthians 6:17-

18. This I will leave for you to look up. Let it be known that God

desires a clean people. People who live clean, think clean and eat

clean so that we are a fit temple for God's Holy Spirit.

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Will you go to Hell for eating a ham sandwich?

 

Will you go only half way to Hell if you have just half?

 

Are you required to follow the dietary laws to obtain Salvation and avoid Hell Fire?

 

What about the 10 Commandments?

 

What if you cannot keep them perfectly, are you going to Hell?

 

Jesus expanded on them in Matthew

 

21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, ˜You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.`

22 "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ˜Raca!` shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ˜You fool!` shall be in danger of hell fire. (Matthew 5:21-22 NLT)

 

If you called someone a fool, are you going to Hell?

 

"You have heard that the law of Moses says, ˜Do not commit adultery.`

28 But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:27-28 NLT)

 

If you have had lust are you going to Hell because you've committed adultry?

 

So are the food law requisite to obtain Salvation or a personal choice that has no bearing on your Salvation?

 

hint:

 

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9 NKJV)

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Will you go to Hell for eating a ham sandwich?

 

Will you go only half way to Hell if you have just half?

 

Are you required to follow the dietary laws to obtain Salvation and avoid Hell Fire?

 

What about the 10 Commandments?

 

What if you cannot keep them perfectly, are you going to Hell?

 

Jesus expanded on them in Matthew

 

21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, ˜You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.`

22 "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ˜Raca!` shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ˜You fool!` shall be in danger of hell fire. (Matthew 5:21-22 NLT)

 

If you called someone a fool, are you going to Hell?

 

"You have heard that the law of Moses says, ˜Do not commit adultery.`

28 But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:27-28 NLT)

 

If you have had lust are you going to Hell because you've committed adultry?

 

So are the food law requisite to obtain Salvation or a personal choice that has no bearing on your Salvation?

 

hint:

 

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9 NKJV)

 

Rom 2:21

You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?

2:22

You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?

2:23

You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

 

You tell me what happens when you dishonor God.

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Will you go to Hell for eating a ham sandwich?

 

 

Eve ate a simple apple and what happened? If God tells you NOT TO CONSUME you must obey. However if you didn't know, you still sinned but in this case you can plead your case with God.

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Will you go to Hell for eating a ham sandwich?

 

 

"Eve ate a simple apple and what happened? If God tells you NOT TO CONSUME you must obey. However if you didn't know, you still sinned but in this case you can plead your case with God."

 

God commanded Adam and Eve not eat the apple. In that same way we were commanded by him to not eat of certain animals, fruits and bugs. God will punish us in the same way that he punished Adam and Eve for breaking his commandment. You tell me seeking, what do you do to end up in Hell?

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Will you go to Hell for eating a ham sandwich?

 

Why take the risk?

Do you absolutely need to eat a ham sandwich?

Or are their other foods more nourishing?

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Will you go to Hell for eating a ham sandwich?

 

"10 Then Jesus called to the crowds and said, "Listen to what I say and try to understand.

11 You are not defiled by what you eat; you are defiled by what you say and do."

12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said?"

13 Jesus replied, "Every plant not planted by my heavenly Father will be rooted up,

14 so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch."

15 Then Peter asked Jesus, "Explain what you meant when you said people aren`t defiled by what they eat.""

16 "Don`t you understand?" Jesus asked him.

17 "Anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes out of the body.

18 But evil words come from an evil heart and defile the person who says them.

19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all other sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander.

20 These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands could never defile you and make you unacceptable to God!" (Matthew 15:10-20 NLT)

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Will you go to Hell for eating a ham sandwich?

 

"10 Then Jesus called to the crowds and said, "Listen to what I say and try to understand.

11 You are not defiled by what you eat; you are defiled by what you say and do."

12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said?"

13 Jesus replied, "Every plant not planted by my heavenly Father will be rooted up,

14 so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch."

15 Then Peter asked Jesus, "Explain what you meant when you said people aren`t defiled by what they eat.""

16 "Don`t you understand?" Jesus asked him.

17 "Anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes out of the body.

18 But evil words come from an evil heart and defile the person who says them.

19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all other sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander.

20 These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands could never defile you and make you unacceptable to God!" (Matthew 15:10-20 NLT)

 

Acts 10

14 But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean."

 

If Christ declared all foods clean in Matthew and Mark then why is Peter still following the food laws here in Acts? The answer is because Christ was not talking about unclean/clean foods. He was talking about eating clean food with unwashed hands.

 

Matt 15

20 These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands could never defile you and make you unacceptable to God!"

 

Christ says "You are not defiled by what you eat" because the food was clean in the first place.

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Will you go to Hell for eating a ham sandwich?

 

Why take the risk?

Do you absolutely need to eat a ham sandwich?

Or are their other foods more nourishing?

 

Matthew 5:

 

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

 

18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

 

19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

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Will you go to Hell for eating a ham sandwich?

 

Why take the risk?

Do you absolutely need to eat a ham sandwich?

Or are their other foods more nourishing?

 

Matthew 5:

 

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

 

18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

 

19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

 

Just to add to your post, Paul in Galations calls the gentiles "The Israel of God". If thats the case then you must follow Israels laws which is the Torah.

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I cannot make the decision on Hell or Heaven. God did not give me that authority.

 

Is a person that willfully eats a ham sandwich after reading the laws breaking the law?- YES.

 

Will that person be judged? Yes- The same way I will be judged for my sins.

 

Matthew 7:

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

John 5:

26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.

27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

 

 

Did Jesus eat a ham sandwich?

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I cannot make the decision on Hell or Heaven. God did not give me that authority.

 

Is a person that willfully eats a ham sandwich after reading the laws breaking the law?- YES.

 

Will that person be judged? Yes- The same way I will be judged for my sins.

 

Matthew 7:

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

John 5:

26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.

27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

 

 

Did Jesus eat a ham sandwich?

 

Steve, according to Paul there are two types of sins. The first type is forgivable. The second is unforgivable. Eating a ham sandwich would qualify as unforgivable because you broke God's law. It's basically a slap in God's face. In other words "I don't give a hoot what you say God, I want to eat a ham sandwich."

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I cannot make the decision on Hell or Heaven. God did not give me that authority.

 

Is a person that willfully eats a ham sandwich after reading the laws breaking the law?- YES.

 

Will that person be judged? Yes- The same way I will be judged for my sins.

 

Matthew 7:

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

John 5:

26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.

27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

 

 

Did Jesus eat a ham sandwich?

 

Steve, according to Paul there are two types of sins. The first type is forgivable. The second is unforgivable. Eating a ham sandwich would qualify as unforgivable because you broke God's law. It's basically a slap in God's face. In other words "I don't give a hoot what you say God, I want to eat a ham sandwich."

Do you guys hold to the whole law? Or do you pick and choose which laws you follow?

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I cannot make the decision on Hell or Heaven. God did not give me that authority.

 

Is a person that willfully eats a ham sandwich after reading the laws breaking the law?- YES.

 

Will that person be judged? Yes- The same way I will be judged for my sins.

 

Matthew 7:

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

John 5:

26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.

27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

 

 

Did Jesus eat a ham sandwich?

 

Steve, according to Paul there are two types of sins. The first type is forgivable. The second is unforgivable. Eating a ham sandwich would qualify as unforgivable because you broke God's law. It's basically a slap in God's face. In other words "I don't give a hoot what you say God, I want to eat a ham sandwich."

Guest Somebody, The thief on the cross who was crucified along with Jesus and went into heaven, do you suppose he ate any unclean food or was all his meat kosher butchered? Scripture states to believe upon Him and you will be in His heavenly kingdom not by your works, let no man boast, why doesn't that verse mention anything about clean or unclean foods as you assert.

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Guest Guest_somebody_*

I cannot make the decision on Hell or Heaven. God did not give me that authority.

 

Is a person that willfully eats a ham sandwich after reading the laws breaking the law?- YES.

 

Will that person be judged? Yes- The same way I will be judged for my sins.

 

Matthew 7:

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

John 5:

26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.

27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

 

 

Did Jesus eat a ham sandwich?

 

Steve, according to Paul there are two types of sins. The first type is forgivable. The second is unforgivable. Eating a ham sandwich would qualify as unforgivable because you broke God's law. It's basically a slap in God's face. In other words "I don't give a hoot what you say God, I want to eat a ham sandwich."

Guest Somebody, The thief on the cross who was crucified along with Jesus and went into heaven, do you suppose he ate any unclean food or was all his meat kosher butchered? Scripture states to believe upon Him and you will be in His heavenly kingdom not by your works, let no man boast, why doesn't that verse mention anything about clean or unclean foods as you assert.

 

 

Remember Guest.....Christ say's that the path to the kingdom of heavon is narrow and not all will make it.

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Guest priskuniaminyeh
We as Molokans and maybe some who are not must know that the law of

our God (Alkhayim) God of Israel and Father of his Son our Lord

Jesus Christ is not abolished. Many false Christians claim this as

fact but here I will try to prove them wrong. First we will start

off in Leviticus where the food law's are located.

 

Levi 11:3 (NKJV) 3 Among the animals, whatever divides the hoof,

having cloven hooves and chewing the cud--that you may eat. 4

Nevertheless these you shall not eat among those that chew the cud

or those that have cloven hooves: the camel, because it chews the

cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 5 the rock

hyrax, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is

unclean to you; 6 the hare, because it chews the cud but does not

have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 7 and the swine, though it

divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud,

is unclean to you. 8 Their flesh you shall not eat, and their

carcasses you shall not touch. They are unclean to you. 9 'These you

may eat of all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins

and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers--that you may eat.

10 But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and

scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in

the water, they are an abomination to you. 11 They shall be an

abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall

regard their carcasses as an abomination. 12 Whatever in the water

does not have fins or scales--that shall be an abomination to you.

13 'And these you shall regard as an abomination among the birds;

they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, the

vulture, the buzzard, 14 the kite, and the falcon after its kind; 15

every raven after its kind, 16 the ostrich, the short-eared owl, the

sea gull, and the hawk after its kind; 17 the little owl, the fisher

owl, and the screech owl; 18 the white owl, the jackdaw, and the

carrion vulture; 19 the stork, the heron after its kind, the hoopoe,

and the bat. 20 'All flying insects that creep on all fours shall be

an abomination to you. 21 Yet these you may eat of every flying

insect that creeps on all fours: those which have jointed legs above

their feet with which to leap on the earth. 22 These you may eat:

the locust after its kind, the destroying locust after its kind, the

cricket after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind. 23 But

all other flying insects which have four feet shall be an

abomination to you.

 

 

God is our Creator. He also created all the animals and every living

thing on earth. Some animals were created to CLEAN the earth and

sea. Primarily, these are the animals that God does not want us to

consume. God clearly in his law, tell's us what and what not to eat.

With these standards in mind God says that "Among the animals,

whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves [and] chewing the

cud--that you may eat." Truly, God knows what is best for us. One

animal that God and all of our forefathers seemed to link with

unclean, evil and filth was the swine. Even in those days, swine

were often eaten just as they are today, sadly many would claim that

since we have now domesticated the swine and the swine is fed grains

and such, that it is a clean food. But the pig still does not chew

the cud. Therefore it is unclean according to the word of God. Also,

all the other animals that don't meet the critica in the above

passage are not to be consumed. As we go on I want you to remember

that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit:

 

 

1Cor 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the

Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not

your own?

 

If the body we have is not our own, but rather given to us by God,

then we must take care of it and not defile it. We must present our

bodies as holy and acceptable to God:

 

 

Roma 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,

that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to

God, which is your reasonable service.

 

Knowing this, let's consider some other scriptures that speak of the

importance of not eating unclean animals. Here is a passage that has

yet to be fulfilled:

 

 

Isai 66:16 For by fire and by His sword God will judge all flesh;

And the slain of God shall be many. "Those who sanctify themselves

and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the

midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall

be consumed together," says God.

 

Checking the context, we find that it is very clear that this is yet

future:

 

 

Isai 66:18 "For I [know] their works and their thoughts. It shall be

that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and

see My glory. 19 "I will set a sign among them; and those among them

who escape I will send to the nations: [to] Tarshish and Pul and

Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, [to] the coastlands afar

off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall

declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 "Then they shall bring all

your brethren for an offering to Yahweh out of all nations, on

horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My

holy mountain Jerusalem," says the Lord, "as the children of Israel

bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of God. 21 "And I

will also take some of them for priests [and] Levites," says the

Lord. 22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make

shall remain before Me," says the Lord, "So shall your descendants

and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass [That] from one

New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh

shall come to worship before Me," says the Lord.

 

So, judging by the context we see that this proclamation of God

destroying those who eat pig is yet future. Why then do so many

believe that it is now acceptable to eat unclean animals? Many

believe that our Lord Jesus Christ declared all foods clean in Mark

7:19. Let's take a look at the context.

 

 

Mark 7:1 Then the Pharisees and some of the scribes came together to

Him, having come from Jerusalem. 2 Now when they saw some of His

disciples eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they

found fault. 3 For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless

they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the

elders.

 

Note that this is a tradition of the elders and not a commandment

from God. Although it is not evil to eat with washed hands, it is

not a commandment from God either. This is Jesus's point. He

mentions that their priorities are wrong in whom they choose to

obey. Let's go on.....

 

 

4 When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they

wash. And there are many other things which they have received and

hold, like the washing of cups, pitchers, copper vessels, and

couches. 5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, "Why do Your

disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat

bread with unwashed hands?" 6 He answered and said to them, "Well

did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: `This

people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 7

And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments

of men.'

 

Here it is saying that it is vain to worship Him with the doctrines

and commandments of men.

 

 

8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition

of men--the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things

you do." 9 He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment

of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 "For Moses said, `Honor

your father and your mother'; and, `He who curses father or mother,

let him be put to death.' 11 "But you say, `If a man says to his

father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me

is Corban"--' (that is, a gift [to] [God]), 12 "then you no longer

let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 "making the

word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have

handed down. And many such things you do." 14 When He had called all

the multitude to Himself, He said to them, "Hear Me, everyone, and

understand: 15 "There is nothing that enters a man from outside

which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those

are the things that defile a man. 16 "If anyone has ears to hear,

let him hear!" 17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd,

His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18 So He said to

them, "Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive

that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him,

19 "because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is

eliminated, thus purifying all foods?"

 

Other translations end this verse with "[This he said], making all

meats clean. (ASV)" But this is not in the majority of Greek

manuscripts, as well as the Aramaic. This is obviously a note added

to the book of Mark that someone will have to answer for on judgment

day. First of all, it is not a correct statement. Christ was not

talking about clean / unclean foods but whether or not God commanded

us to eat with washed hands which He clearly did not.

 

 

20 And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man.

21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts,

adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 "thefts, covetousness,

wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride,

foolishness. 23 "All these evil things come from within and defile a

man."

 

Consider the parallel of Jesus's saying here in the book of Matthew:

 

 

Matt 15:19 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders,

adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

20 "These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with

unwashed hands does not defile a man."

 

Therefore, it is clear that God's perfect law was not changed here.

Many believe that this commandment was abolished in Acts chapter 10.

Once again, let's take a close look at the context below.

 

 

Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a

centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man

and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms

generously to the people, and prayed to God always. 3 About the

ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God

coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" 4 And when he observed

him, he was afraid, and said, "What is it, Master?" So he said to

him, "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before

God. 5 "Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is

Peter. 6 "He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the

sea. He will tell you what you must do." 7 And when the angel who

spoke to him had departed, Cornelius called two of his household

servants and a devout soldier from among those who waited on him

continually. 8 So when he had explained all [these] things to them,

he sent them to Joppa. 9 The next day, as they went on their journey

and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about

the sixth hour.10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but

while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven

opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners,

descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds

of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things,

and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill

and eat." 14 But Peter said, "Not so, Master! For I have never eaten

anything common or unclean."

 

Now consider this, I find it very interesting that Peter has never

eaten anything common or unclean before. Yet this is many years

after Christ's resurrection and ascension. If Jesus had declared all

foods clean in Mark 7:19 then why does he (Peter) still hold to the

commandment not to do so? And even go a step further and reject the

voice that told him to do so !?

 

 

15 And a voice [spoke] to him again the second time, "What God has

cleansed you must not call common." 16 This was done three times.

And the object was taken up into heaven again. 17 Now while Peter

wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant,

behold, the men who had been sent from Cornelius had made inquiry

for Simon's house, and stood before the gate.

 

Now many would like to stop right here and say that now it is ok to

eat unclean animals. But according to the previous verse, Peter

himself didn't even know what the vision meant. How then can we

interpret the vision? We must read on..

 

 

18 And they called and asked whether Simon, whose surname was Peter,

was lodging there. 19 While Peter thought about the vision, the

Spirit said to him, "Behold, three men are seeking you. 20 "Arise

therefore, go down and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have

sent them." 21 Then Peter went down to the men who had been sent to

him from Cornelius, and said, "Yes, I am he whom you seek. For what

reason have you come?" 22 And they said, "Cornelius [the] centurion,

a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all

the nation of the Jews, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to

summon you to his house, and to hear words from you." 23 Then he

invited them in and lodged [them]. On the next day Peter went away

with them, and some brethren from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And the

following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for

them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As

Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and

worshiped [him]. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I

myself am also a man." 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and

found many who had come together. 28 Then he said to them, "You know

how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to

one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call

any man common or unclean.

 

So this vision was not God trying to show Peter that it is now okay

to eat unclean foods, but rather it was God showing Peter and the

rest of the disciples that they are to go unto the gentiles (Ten

lost tribes) too! Jesus had commanded the disciples to "Go therefore

and make disciples of all the nations.." But they had not done so.

So God sent a vision to Peter to show that it is not against the

commandment of God to go unto the gentiles (Ten lost tribes).

 

28 Then he said to them, "You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish

man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has

shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

29 "Therefore I came without objection as soon as I was sent for. I

ask, then, for what reason have you sent for me?" 30 So Cornelius

said, "Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth

hour I prayed in my house, and behold, a man stood before me in

bright clothing, 31 "and said, `Cornelius, your prayer has been

heard, and your alms are remembered in the sight of God. 32 `Send

therefore to Joppa and call Simon here, whose surname is Peter. He

is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea. When he

comes, he will speak to you.' 33 "So I sent to you immediately, and

you have done well to come. Now therefore, we are all present before

Yahweh, to hear all the things commanded you by God." 34 Then Peter

opened [his] mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no

partiality. 35 "But in every nation whoever fears Him and works

righteousness is accepted by Him.

 

We'll stop here but later in the chapter, God works a miracle when

He pours out His spirit unto the gentiles in the presence of the

Jews by having them speak in tongues. So by reading this vision, we

gain understanding of what it means. Another place that some point

to to say that God has changed His mind on his commandment not to

eat unclean foods is in 1 Timothy:

 

 

1Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some

will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and

doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own

conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, [and]

[commanding] to abstain from foods which God created to be received

with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

 

Now if what Paul is speaking of here is the doctrine of abstaining

from eating unclean animals then why does he refer to this doctrine

as one of the 'doctrines of demons' ? Is it not a doctrine of our

living God? It is a doctrine of God, not a doctrine of demons. Can

you see the difference?

 

 

4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing is to be refused

if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the

word of God and prayer.

 

Some have mistakenly thought that as long as they pray before they

eat an unclean animal, that God cleanses it for them. This is not

true. First we must identify what is food. According to God's word,

unclean animals never were, aren't now and never will be "food." We

are told in verse 5 that all the creatures of God are sanctified by

His word. Sanctified means "Set apart". God set apart which animals

are clean and which animals are unclean in His word. God's creation

is to be "received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know

the truth." What is truth? God's word. Which in part was given to us

through his Son Jesus Christ his son our King of Kings. And also of

whom Jesus sent our Leader the King Sprits, наше новое ЮлиÑ, the final

conqueror of the Beast who will rule rule with Christ for a thousand

years in the fields of Sardarabat near mount Ugvair, Amen.

 

Isai 52:11 Depart! Depart! Go out from there, Touch no unclean

[thing]; Go out from the midst of her, Be clean, You who bear the

vessels of God.

 

Paul quotes this verse in 1 Corinthians 10:11 and 2 Corinthians 6:17-

18. This I will leave for you to look up. Let it be known that God

desires a clean people. People who live clean, think clean and eat

clean so that we are a fit temple for God's Holy Spirit.

 

Are you picking and choosing which Old Testament Laws to follow, then?

 

Exodus 23:19

19 "Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God. "Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk.

 

And

 

Deuteronomy 14:21

21 Do not eat anything you find already dead. You may give it to an alien living in any of your towns, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner. But you are a people holy to the LORD your God. Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk.

 

I understand that most Orthodox Jews follow the Old Testament Kosher food laws to the letter. That is why they do not eat "cheese burgers". They also keep two sets of dishes and have two refridgerators in their homes to follow these laws.

 

If you have had a "beef burger" with cheese, you are not Kosher.

 

If you are going to follow these Old Testament food laws, why not follow them like the Jews do - the whole way and to the letter. They also scour their homes prior to Holy weeks to eradicate any speck of leavining to follow the law. Does your family do the same?

 

If you eat bread with yeast in it during that time, you are not Kosher.

 

Exodus 20:1-17

The Ten Commandments

 

1 And God spoke all these words:

2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

 

3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.

 

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

 

7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

 

8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

 

12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

 

13 "You shall not murder.

 

14 "You shall not commit adultery.

 

15 "You shall not steal.

 

16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

 

17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

 

Have you ever fibbed or told a lie? (See verse 16). If you have done this, guess what - a commandment has been broken.

 

If we are supposed to follow the Old Testament laws to the letter, when was the last time you made a sacrifice? If you haven't made your animal sacrifices, you are breaking Old Testament laws.

 

Jesus came to save our sorry little butts from the lake of fire because we cannot follow the Old Testament laws perfectly to the letter - He is the only one capeable of that.

 

Let us know when you are ready to walk across a body of water - I will be the first in line to buy a ticket to see it happen.

 

Your thoughts?

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Guest Guest_stevepiv_*

So then priskuniaminyeh are you saying that since you accepted Christ everything is permissible? Where does the line get drawn? Who said Molokans are trying to fulfill all the law?

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So then priskuniaminyeh are you saying that since you accepted Christ everything is permissible?

 

What does Apostle Paul say about this in 1st Corrinthians ch 10 verse 23?

 

Where does the line get drawn? Who said Molokans are trying to fulfill all the law?

Somebody, yourself, and many others have made those assertions.

 

 

You guys never answered my question. Do you follow the whole law, or do you pick and choose which laws you will follow?

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Anyone please explain this to me.

 

1 Tim 4:1-5

 

4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

 

2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

 

4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

NIV

 

Does He mean that only certain foods can be eaten? Is this a "Health Advisory" and not a law from God to you? 1 Timothy is a new testament teaching. And that would mean it's meant for us in 2006.

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Guest Guest_stevepiv_*

Fulfilling the whole law has been done once by or Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

I personally try to live by God's commandment's from both the Old & New Testaments and what he commanded does not get erased. The Old Testament is not done away with. We are supposed to strive and fulfill all of God's laws. If we don't we are not being obedient.

 

Christ did say he came not to abolish the law but to fulfill the law.

 

If we are to be "Christ like", shouldn't we try to fulfill all of God's laws and commandments?

 

Or does the Morningstar not teach that?

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If we are to be "Christ like", shouldn't we try to fulfill all of God's laws and commandments?

Didn't you know that close only counts in horseshoes, and handgrenades! Apostle Paul tells us if you have broken one of the laws, you have broken them all!

 

 

Or does the Morningstar not teach that?

I don't know...i don't attend morningstar.

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So then priskuniaminyeh are you saying that since you accepted Christ everything is permissible? Where does the line get drawn? Who said Molokans are trying to fulfill all the law?

 

L i s t e n t o w h a t I a m s a y i n g ..

 

No, I am not saying that since I have accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior that everything is permissible, because it is not. I am a sinner (just like you) and I try to be a good Christian, but I am not perfect - I can ask Him for forgiveness, and continue on my path and strive to do better to be more like Him.

 

What I was asking was, are the Old Testament laws being followed willy nilly? Let's see, we will eat kosher this certain way (by the way cheese burgers are okay, because we got the meat at *****************'s meat market), because if we don't, well we will go to hell if we eat shrimp or a ham sandwich, but we won't go to hell if we forget about doing animal sacrifices, or if we tell a little fib here or there.

 

It is more like - hey! Look at me! I follow some of the Old Testament food laws perfectly, but that guy over there - he eats pork chops, so he MUST be going to hell.

 

So if you want to follow all of the Old Testament commandments and laws perfectly, maybe someone can start with a class in Burnt Offerings 101 at Mt. Sac or Rio Hondo JC. Anyone up for the challenge?

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Fulfilling the whole law has been done once by or Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

I personally try to live by God's commandment's from both the Old & New Testaments and what he commanded does not get erased. The Old Testament is not done away with. We are supposed to strive and fulfill all of God's laws. If we don't we are not being obedient.

 

Christ did say he came not to abolish the law but to fulfill the law.

 

If we are to be "Christ like", shouldn't we try to fulfill all of God's laws and commandments?

 

Or does the Morningstar not teach that?

You're trying to mix Law with Grace, that's a biblically illiterate molokan doctrine. By doing so you reject Christ's offer of total grace. Now that's something Morningstar does not teach I'm sure. Do you have scripture to back up your belief?

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Fulfilling God's commandments is being obedient to our Heavenly Father. It shows that Christ is truly in us, because he fulfilled all the law and we are to be "Christ-Like".

 

Yes, it is impossible to fulfill all the law, that's why we have our Saviour Jesus Christ who came down on Earth, showed us the true path, established his Church, promised us a comforter, and our Heavenly Father Resurrected his Son like he promised.

 

I do not fulfill the law for salvation, because Christ is our new Covenant, he is our Saviour.

 

But we must be obedient to God, Believe in him, Believe in Jesus Christ, live by the Spirit, Love one another, fulfill his commandments from the Old & New Testaments.

 

Kapish?

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In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and there annointed, the King of Spirits Amen.

So, it's not the three that are one, but now at least for today anyhow, it's the four that are one! My how things change! It's no wonder the Molokan churches are emptying out.

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Guest_stevepiv_*

 

Please understand that somebody is adding a 4th the Trinity because that is what the SNL advocates

 

By embracing that book or at least turning a blind eye to it, you embrace heresy

 

You may say you do not advocate that book, yet it is present in a place of "honor" in all molokan churches

 

You, by your very presence in a molokan church with that book under roof, approve of it's contents

 

What if the "extra" book was the satanic bible...?

 

Would you ignore that too?

 

mgr calls for himself to be worshiped as god just as satan did

 

Don't you have a problem with that?

 

1 Then God instructed the people as follows:

2 "I am the LORD your God, who rescued you from slavery in Egypt.

3 "Do not worship any other gods besides me.

4 "Do not make idols of any kind, whether in the shape of birds or animals or fish.

5 "You must never worship or bow down to them, for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God who will not share your affection with any other god! I do not leave unpunished the sins of those who hate me, but I punish the children for the sins of their parents to the third and fourth generations." (Exodus 20:1-5 NLT)

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My how time just flies when you're having fun, another day has passed! Guest_stevepiv_* It's actually the five that are now one!...FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT, KING OF SPIRITS AND QUEEN OF SPIRITS STERAFINA "Perhaps because of this, you left my beloved wife, my Spiritual marriage, mother to all believers of the Holy Spirit, by the name of Sterafina---the enthroned queen of the Spirit, patently, my eternal alliance of love with her" (mgr - book 4, article 2, verse 7).

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Guest_stevepiv_*

 

Please understand that somebody is adding a 4th the Trinity

Looks like Guest somebody jumped off the ship, the post you mentioned has been removed.

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Hey where did Guest_somebody_* go? He took his post and his car is not in the parking lot. Got hungry, made a Lil Juan's Burrito run maybe.

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Guest past - present - future

Guest_stevepiv_*

 

Please understand that somebody is adding a 4th the Trinity

Looks like Guest somebody jumped off the ship, the post you mentioned has been removed.

 

Shake the dust off your shoes and move on.

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Guest_stevepiv_*

 

Please understand that somebody is adding a 4th the Trinity

Looks like Guest somebody jumped off the ship, the post you mentioned has been removed.

 

Shake the dust off your shoes and move on.

I would rather learn more about MGR's Penta God Head teaching. MGR - book 4, article 2, verse 7.

 

 

God the Father

God the Son

God the Holy Spirit

God the King of Spirits

God the Queen of Spirits

 

Guest_stevepiv_* Where is his new gospel in the scriptures?

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Romans 14:13-23

Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

 

Well said Apostle Paul. He is basically saying that we shouldn't argue about ham sandwiches. Verse 20 says that all food is clean, but don't eat something that will disturb your brother's faith. So when I'm around Molokans, I don't eat pork. When I'm around non-Molokans, I eat what is offered to me because it is permissible:

1 Corinthians 10:23-33 - 23 -

"Everything is permissible"”but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"”but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

25Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."[a]

27If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 30If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?

31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God” 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

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