King Of Spirits, And God

[anakainosis 0]

Please note the following when reading the S&L:

"Capitol letters, which are hardly distinguishable in the original manuscripts of the authors, have been added wherever the context is clearly in regard to Deity, the Word, the Holy Spirit, the Savior, the Paradise and the Kingdom. Pronouns also are capitalized when the reference is clearly to the above items. The definite and indefinite articles (a, an, the) which do not exist in modern Russian, have been added throughout the translation for a smoother flow of reading." Pg. 8, Eng. S&L

I was asked to explain in further detail what I currently have at the bottom of every one of my posts.

 

It is a quote from the "Preface to the Translation" in the English translation of the Spirit and Life. Specifically the black book translated by John W Volkov and edited by ***** H *****************.

 

This is proof that some, not all, but some elders of the Russian Molokan Churches based in Los Angeles, Fresno, Oregon, and Australia are liars and continue to deceive the common folk. Most Molokans do not know what they believe or why they believe. They do not take the time to study their religion, let alone the bible.

 

Most people think that because they hear the repeated words "Jesus", "Lord", "God", and "Holy Spirit" during a Molokan Church service, it`s all good. During most speeches attempts are made to sound Christian, right?

 

What about this king of spirits guy? You will hear about him and sing praises about him. A lot of people jump a little louder when the "King of Spirits" term is sung. They will raise their hands in praise and act all spiritual, while other people get all goose pimply. Often they will claim that the spirit is strong at that moment¦

 

But who is this guy? What is he about? What does he claim about himself? When you ask elders they are not really sure, because some will fess up and say I don`t read his writings, I just stick to the bible. Others will have some esoteric explanation that leaves you even more confused, and at that point they`ll say that you are not ready to understand yet. But you know, when you reach a certain age you are able to sense the BS when you hear it.

 

The crux is this man makes a claim about himself in writing and the people who worship this guy are not really being straight forward about it. And I know there are some that are, and they are called the clarkies. But most of you out there that seem to have no issue with this book or this man, because you believe that the elders of your Church cant possibly be corrupt by the flesh . You would think that the spirit would come out and worn the people of heresy right. You hear it all the time how the boogie man is out there and 666 churches are out to get you, blah, blah, blah. Or you would think how can so many people be wrong.

 

Well¦

 

This guy Maxcim, Claims to be God and King! Not "a god", but GOD! Now my proof of this has always come from his writings that are so venerated they are held equal to scripture and sit next to the bibles on the front table.

 

But you as a so called Christain may bark back, "I have only one King and Lord, Jesus Christ"

 

Do You?

 

Your Holy Scripture on the prestol of your Church teaches otherwise. Why your elders do not preach this, I`m not sure. I know that if everyone found out there would be revolution.

 

The editor chose to add capitol letters in the English translation to distinguish deity. He stated that pronouns when the context clearly refers to deity, they will be capitalized.

 

Example:

 

My brothers and my sisters of faithful and steadfast heart. Look upon this banner and its construction, the manner it will be erected in the new city Jerusalem, in full radiance near the new tabernacle on Mount Zion, in the court of the anointed one the king of spirits. Praise to our God and Lamb. Amen, Alleluia.

 

Zion speaks, "God is my glory. He shall glorify me before all the nations with inexpressible glory."

 

His third appearance shall be with glory, that is, as a man and God.

 

Then all the people shall tell him that, there has appeared in the name of the Lord upon the throne of glory, the King and God of the new Israel. Amen.- Pg 260-261 Article 25

 

With this example it is clear that the editor chose to distinguish the "third appearance" as God. Not "a god", but God the one and only. If the editor clearly saw in the original context that this man was to be just a god he would have added the indefinite article "a" in front of the word god. Also he would have put the "G" in lower case, but he chose not to.

 

Clearly from the context this person is MGR, not Jesus, not the Father or Holy Spirit. In the last verse this man/God MGR will sit on the throne of glory and be called the "King and God of the new Israel."

 

Again the editor, due to context chose to capitalize "King" and "God". Meaning that this was not just "a king", but "The King". The editor chose to leave out the indefinite article and capitalize the "k" to distinguish the title. Also the word "God" is emphasized.

 

Capitol letters, which are hardly distinguishable in the original manuscripts of the authors, have been added wherever the context is clearly in regard to Deity

 

And you thought Jesus was your King and God¦

 

 

Another example:

 

"The King of the new Israel, or King of Spirits!" Pg. 286 Book 4:11:22

Again capitol letters for "King of Spirits" denotes deity according to the editors.

 

Then there are spots where the editors did not capitalize the "King of Spirits" title.

 

"I Maxim Gavrilovich king of spirits¦" Pg. 287 book 4:11:28

 

or

 

"Therefore I Maxim am now called by His new name: King of Spirits and God of the faithful¦" Pg 465 Book 9:15:7

 

So how come our so called elders never teach that the Molokans have two Gods? Because it would be unbiblical and everybody would freak out; can you imagine everybody calling Maxim by his new name and title? They call him king of spirits, but why not finish it as he wished, and call him God of the faithful.

 

Hope this makes better sense.

[coffee 0]

.

 

This is proof that some, not all, but some elders of the Russian Molokan Churches based in Los Angeles, Fresno, Oregon, and Australia are liars and continue to deceive the common folk. Most Molokans do not know what they believe or why they believe. They do not take the time to study their religion, let alone the bible.

 

It has long been a mystery why the followers of Rudometkin, those zealots who insist that the writings in the Spirit and Life book are the inspired Word of God, are so dishonest about getting up in church and preaching what it is that they believe.

 

A good example are those individuals here on the forums who have actually been refreshingly honest enough to share exactly what the Rudometkinites believe.

 

Why are these individuals, especially their elders, not preaching in our Molokan churches that the Bible is full of errors, and that the Scriptures are responsible for leading people away from God, to false theology and false worship? Why are they not preaching that only portions of the Bible are God breathed, and that a good majority of the recorded "Word of God" was written by man, in an attempt to establish religious legacy for future generations, and that those portions of the Scriptures which ARE from God are able to be "truly" discerned ONLY by those who have received the revelation of Rudometkin's newly promised spirit and his new pathway to heaven which are both written about at length in the Spirit and Life book?

 

Why do we not hear about where and when Rudometkin's new spirit was "newly promised" by God?

 

In the past, these individuals, or those who at least share the same belief system as them, have been invited to the annual Molokan Camp anyway, most of the time as guest speakers to "teach" the youth and impress upon them about what it means to be a "Molokan". So why is it that they don't preach what they really believe? Why are they so dishonest? Why do the young people who go to Camp not learn these wonderful "spiritual truths"?

 

When was the last time anyone heard in church that one of the primary reasons that Jesus came to earth was to bring people out of the "dead letter" of the Scriptures? When was the last time anyone has heard in church that God is a hypocrite? Or that the Lord Jesus Christ is a liar? Or that the Apostles and the Disciples of Jesus were just a bunch of sanctimonious fools, leading others to believe what amounts to mere nonsense?

 

Why is it that our "Molokan people" have to come here to the internet to learn these pearls of wisdom that these elders believe, instead of in the churches?

 

When was the last time one of these individuals got up in church to preach that we are now supposed to go to "the Church" to receive forgiveness of our sins, instead of directly to Jesus Christ as our intercessor? Or that because Rudometkin "bound" on earth that he was God of the faithful on earth, that it was therefore "bound and loosed also in heaven, that Rudometkin had been given the power and authority to forgive sins and "reward" with salvation and eternal life, everyone who would bow down to Rudometkin as the New Jewish / Judean Messiah"? After all, is it not written in the Bible that whatever is "bound and loosed" on earth is also bound and loosed in heaven?

 

Since those who are the dominant, political elders and church leaders in today's Molokan churches believe either a portion, or all of this anyway, why does one not hear it in any of their sermons? Why do these men "hide" behind the name of Jesus, in an effort to present the Jumper "Molokan" churches as if they are all Bible based followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, when in reality, they believe that the Scriptures are full of errors and contridictions, but that Rudometkin's writings in the Spirit and Life book are all true, all inspired by God Himself, and are "deep spiritual mysteries" that are intended for our "Molokan people" ONLY?

 

That is why inviting these individuals to share what they believe here on the forum is a good thing. It demonstrates the true condition of today's "Molokan" brotherhood, that not all "Molokans" are Bible based followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, nor are all "Molokans" indwelled by the Holy Spirit of the Scriptures, even those who "jump and leap in the spirit".

 

There is a new spirit alive an well in the teachings that come from the Spirit and Life book, which is NOT "holy".

 

.

[lastinline 0]

Thanks for your clarification, quite compelling and gives me great pause and further cements my disdain for the s&l.

 

Your other quote from Spurgeon is also great to ponder,

 

"Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven."- C.H. Spurgeon

 

I recently heard a similar statement; "No one goes to heaven deservedly and no one goes to hell unwillingly."

 

Thanks again,

 

lastinline (undeserving & oh so appreciative)

 

Please note the following when reading the S&L:

"Capitol letters, which are hardly distinguishable in the original manuscripts of the authors, have been added wherever the context is clearly in regard to Deity, the Word, the Holy Spirit, the Savior, the Paradise and the Kingdom. Pronouns also are capitalized when the reference is clearly to the above items. The definite and indefinite articles (a, an, the) which do not exist in modern Russian, have been added throughout the translation for a smoother flow of reading." Pg. 8, Eng. S&L

I was asked to explain in further detail what I currently have at the bottom of every one of my posts.

 

It is a quote from the "Preface to the Translation" in the English translation of the Spirit and Life. Specifically the black book translated by John W Volkov and edited by ***** H *****************.

 

This is proof that some, not all, but some elders of the Russian Molokan Churches based in Los Angeles, Fresno, Oregon, and Australia are liars and continue to deceive the common folk. Most Molokans do not know what they believe or why they believe. They do not take the time to study their religion, let alone the bible.

 

Most people think that because they hear the repeated words "Jesus", "Lord", "God", and "Holy Spirit" during a Molokan Church service, it`s all good. During most speeches attempts are made to sound Christian, right?

 

What about this king of spirits guy? You will hear about him and sing praises about him. A lot of people jump a little louder when the "King of Spirits" term is sung. They will raise their hands in praise and act all spiritual, while other people get all goose pimply. Often they will claim that the spirit is strong at that moment¦

 

But who is this guy? What is he about? What does he claim about himself? When you ask elders they are not really sure, because some will fess up and say I don`t read his writings, I just stick to the bible. Others will have some esoteric explanation that leaves you even more confused, and at that point they`ll say that you are not ready to understand yet. But you know, when you reach a certain age you are able to sense the BS when you hear it.

 

The crux is this man makes a claim about himself in writing and the people who worship this guy are not really being straight forward about it. And I know there are some that are, and they are called the clarkies. But most of you out there that seem to have no issue with this book or this man, because you believe that the elders of your Church cant possibly be corrupt by the flesh . You would think that the spirit would come out and worn the people of heresy right. You hear it all the time how the boogie man is out there and 666 churches are out to get you, blah, blah, blah. Or you would think how can so many people be wrong.

 

Well¦

 

This guy Maxcim, Claims to be God and King! Not "a god", but GOD! Now my proof of this has always come from his writings that are so venerated they are held equal to scripture and sit next to the bibles on the front table.

 

But you as a so called Christain may bark back, "I have only one King and Lord, Jesus Christ"

 

Do You?

 

Your Holy Scripture on the prestol of your Church teaches otherwise. Why your elders do not preach this, I`m not sure. I know that if everyone found out there would be revolution.

 

The editor chose to add capitol letters in the English translation to distinguish deity. He stated that pronouns when the context clearly refers to deity, they will be capitalized.

 

Example:

 

My brothers and my sisters of faithful and steadfast heart. Look upon this banner and its construction, the manner it will be erected in the new city Jerusalem, in full radiance near the new tabernacle on Mount Zion, in the court of the anointed one the king of spirits. Praise to our God and Lamb. Amen, Alleluia.

 

Zion speaks, "God is my glory. He shall glorify me before all the nations with inexpressible glory."

 

His third appearance shall be with glory, that is, as a man and God.

 

Then all the people shall tell him that, there has appeared in the name of the Lord upon the throne of glory, the King and God of the new Israel. Amen.- Pg 260-261 Article 25

With this example it is clear that the editor chose to distinguish the "third appearance" as God. Not "a god", but God the one and only. If the editor clearly saw in the original context that this man was to be just a god he would have added the indefinite article "a" in front of the word god. Also he would have put the "G" in lower case, but he chose not to.

 

Clearly from the context this person is MGR, not Jesus, not the Father or Holy Spirit. In the last verse this man/God MGR will sit on the throne of glory and be called the "King and God of the new Israel."

 

Again the editor, due to context chose to capitalize "King" and "God". Meaning that this was not just "a king", but "The King". The editor chose to leave out the indefinite article and capitalize the "k" to distinguish the title. Also the word "God" is emphasized.

 

Capitol letters, which are hardly distinguishable in the original manuscripts of the authors, have been added wherever the context is clearly in regard to Deity

 

And you thought Jesus was your King and God¦

 

 

Another example:

 

"The King of the new Israel, or King of Spirits!" Pg. 286 Book 4:11:22

Again capitol letters for "King of Spirits" denotes deity according to the editors.

 

Then there are spots where the editors did not capitalize the "King of Spirits" title.

 

"I Maxim Gavrilovich king of spirits¦" Pg. 287 book 4:11:28

or

 

"Therefore I Maxim am now called by His new name: King of Spirits and God of the faithful¦" Pg 465 Book 9:15:7

 

So how come our so called elders never teach that the Molokans have two Gods? Because it would be unbiblical and everybody would freak out; can you imagine everybody calling Maxim by his new name and title? They call him king of spirits, but why not finish it as he wished, and call him God of the faithful.

 

Hope this makes better sense.

[NAD923 0]

When was the last time anyone has heard in church that God is a hypocrite? Or that the Lord Jesus Christ is a liar? Or that the Apostles and the Disciples of Jesus were just a bunch of sanctimonious fools, leading others to believe what amounts to mere nonsense?

 

Why is it that our "Molokan people" have to come here to the internet to learn these pearls of wisdom that these elders believe, instead of in the churches?

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

It's pretty easy...

 

God is not a hypocrite...

Jesus as part of the Tri-Hypostasis cannot lie

The Apostles were feeble men yet they ALL knew the Only Way, the Only Truth and the Only Life

 

That's not the case with the cult of molokanism

 

It's man in his own pride who will deny the ONLY Way so they can chase after false gods

 

The elders are not teaching from the Bible from from a religion of men made of of bits and pieces of a whole bunch of junk that has NOTHING to do with the Bible

 

As to why it's being taught on the internet instead of the Churches is because it's a cult

 

It's the old fashioned, "you better do it our way or the ne-nash boogie man will get you when you are thrown out for making trouble" kind of cult

 

Control trhough intimidation, fear, the idea of "being special" etc...

 

Also the people are too lazy to check up on the "elders" to make sure they are teaching the truth

 

Add to that a dash of man's pride because they like the notion they are "special" like as in a "new israel" so why look for the Truth beacuse the lie is appealing to the flesh

 

3 ¶ Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction.

4 He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.

5 Don't you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you?

6 And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes.

7 For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way.

8 Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming.

9 This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles.

10 He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save

11 So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies.

12 Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth. (1 The 2:3-12)

 

The Spirit of Anti-Christ is alive and well within the cult of molokanism

 

 

You said it very well in another post

 

You don't care if you end up in Hell for believeing what you believe regardless if it's right or wrong

 

That's the pride part

 

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, and haughtiness before a fall.

 

If you died tonight, do you know where you would end up?

 

What about your family?

 

Where would they end up?

 

What have YOU been teaching them?

 

Is your pride that huge you would take your family down the wrong path?

 

You will be held to account for deceiving them

 

1 ¶ One day Jesus said to his disciples, “There will always be temptations to sin, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting!

2 It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin. (Luke 17:1-2)

[NAD923 0]

When was the last time anyone has heard in church that God is a hypocrite? Or that the Lord Jesus Christ is a liar? Or that the Apostles and the Disciples of Jesus were just a bunch of sanctimonious fools, leading others to believe what amounts to mere nonsense?

 

Why is it that our "Molokan people" have to come here to the internet to learn these pearls of wisdom that these elders believe, instead of in the churches?

 

 

COFFEE, wrote that, I just thought it funny! And sad!

 

If I choose to get my fill in a molokan church, is that making me hell bound?

According to you yes!

If I choose not to partake of the other christian faiths, I'm a racist?

 

Really Tim, is that christian? Paul didn't try to convert anybody,

he made them stronger in what they believed.

 

All you guys are after is blood, to destroy molokans.

"If you're not with us, you're against us" mind set.

 

If you want to bring people to Jesus, great!

Do that! Why bring all the other ###### into it?

 

There are a lot of people not happy with their churches, the elders (and members)

have a lot of work ahead of them, if they want to stop people from leaving!

 

Why don't you stop these gossip/bitch sessions and feed the people with

proper scriptural food, you sound like you know it all, so lets see some fruits!

 

Unless you're happy with the way things are(?).

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Being a rascist make you a racist

Excluding others based solely upon their ethnicity is not Christianity is racism with a "christian" label

As I stated in the other post this morning, you continue to make the "leap" the cult of molokanism is a Christian faith

Unfortunately that's not true

Maybe at one time back a LONG TIME ago it was but not as it exists today

The s&l negates anyones claim the cult of molokanism is Christianity

Have you done your homework?

If you had, you would not be clinging to the s&l as "scripture"

 

Denying Jesus for who He says He is will make you Hell bound

Actively participating in the cult of molokanism simply greases the skids down

 

Your idea about bringing people to Jesus is correct

 

Which Jesus?

 

The One as found in Scripture or the "jesus" of the cult of molokanism

 

Accepting the Biblical Jesus as you Lord and Savior is not "lumping" that on top of your religion, it requires turning from the wrong way and going in the right Way

 

One cannot comingle Chrsitianity and the cult of molokanism with the s&l

 

It will not work

 

If you have the s&l anywhere in a "christian church" that's not Christianity nor is it gossip

 

The cult of molokanism still still has the s&l on the prestol don't they?

The cult of molokanism still excludes people based upon ethnicity or race don't they?

The cult of molokanism still prays for their dead don't they?

The cult of molokanism still practices infant baptism don't they?

The cult of molokanism still denies Jesus for who He says He is don't they?

The cult of molokanism still has a "prophet" who claimed to be the "king of spirits" don't they?

The cult of molokanism still has a "prophet" who claimed to be the "new jewish messiah" don't they?

 

You're "christianity" is not Christianity

 

No gossip

 

 

COFFEE, wrote that, I just thought it funny! And sad!

 

If I choose to get my fill in a molokan church, is that making me hell bound?

According to you yes!

If I choose not to partake of the other christian faiths, I'm a racist?

 

Really Tim, is that christian? Paul didn't try to convert anybody,

he made them stronger in what they believed.

 

All you guys are after is blood, to destroy molokans.

"If you're not with us, you're against us" mind set.

 

If you want to bring people to Jesus, great!

Do that! Why bring all the other ###### into it?

 

There are a lot of people not happy with their churches, the elders (and members)

have a lot of work ahead of them, if they want to stop people from leaving!

 

Why don't you stop these gossip/bitch sessions and feed the people with

proper scriptural food, you sound like you know it all, so lets see some fruits!

 

Unless you're happy with the way things are(?).

[stevepiv 0]

If I choose not to partake of the other christian faiths, I'm a racist?

 

What other Christian Faiths??? Molokans love to use the coined phrase "you were born into this faith".

 

Totally un-biblical and a way to control and put fear into anyone who would dare go anywhere outside of "molokanism". It elevates the teaching of "molokanism", the "elders", the "obryat", the "clothes", the "brotherhood".

 

The Bible states:

 

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

 

Paul didn't try to convert anybody,

he made them stronger in what they believed.

 

Book and Chapter to prove your opinion. Because, there is lots of Scripture to prove your opinion false.

 

 

"If you're not with us, you're against us" mind set.

 

NAD,

 

I am not against you as a person. Someday, I would like to sit with you and not across a computer monitor.

 

If you are not for Jesus Christ, you are against Him. There is NO room for another, our righteousness is found in Christ.

 

I am against the man made traditions that are put above the Commandments of God, the mind-set, the s&l, which advocates racism, salvation by works, a mere man proclaiming and damning people to hell for not agreeing with him (maxim), the "molokans are superior than all" attitude, the "work amongst your own people", a man (maxim) claiming to forgive sins, new jewish messiah, king of spirits, the man-child, and all the other titles he gives himself, not to mention the glory that he wanted. Singing songs about a man and praising a man, claiming to be the "first and last", the new "king".

[seeking_truth_1 0]

steve...?

 

mgr also claims to be the "First and the Last? The Alpha & Omega?

 

I'm curious as to where that is found

 

 

Thanks

[lastinline 0]

'NAD923' date='Mar 3 2010, 07:35 PM' post='50583'

If I choose to get my fill in a molokan church, is that making me hell bound?

According to you yes!

If I choose not to partake of the other christian faiths, I'm a racist?

 

Hell bound? No not necessarily, unless you continue in the heretical belief system that is "new israel."

 

If your choice of non-participation is based on the belief that in doing so, you would be sining is not racist, but if indeed that were true, it would make the God of the Holy Scriptures a lier!

 

'NAD923' date='Mar 3 2010, 07:35 PM' post='50583'

There are a lot of people not happy with their churches, the elders (and members)

have a lot of work ahead of them, if they want to stop people from leaving!

 

Why don't you stop these gossip/bitch sessions and feed the people with

proper scriptural food, you sound like you know it all, so lets see some fruits!

 

Unless you're happy with the way things are(?).

 

Actually the ONLY ones that are not happy with the status quo are people that have had a life changing experience through the cleansing Power of the Blood of the Lamb. This nearly ALWAYS happens apart from influence of Molokan belief system as it presently is being proclaimed.

 

lastinline (4 the time being)

[stevepiv 0]

steve...?

 

mgr also claims to be the "First and the Last? The Alpha & Omega?

 

I'm curious as to where that is found

 

 

Thanks

 

Page 558 verses 6,7,8,9 (MGR Book 12 Article 2 verses 6-9)

 

Also- page 680 verse 2

[Guest calling all heresy hunters]

Nothing there that mentions Alpha and Omega, or first and last.

 

You people must be really desperate.

 

 

steve...?

 

mgr also claims to be the "First and the Last? The Alpha & Omega?

 

I'm curious as to where that is found

 

 

Thanks

 

Page 558 verses 6,7,8,9 (MGR Book 12 Article 2 verses 6-9)

 

Also- page 680 verse 2

 

[NAD923 0]

steve...?

 

mgr also claims to be the "First and the Last? The Alpha & Omega?

 

I'm curious as to where that is found

 

 

Thanks

 

Page 558 verses 6,7,8,9 (MGR Book 12 Article 2 verses 6-9)

 

Also- page 680 verse 2

 

580 v 2

 

read 12:3;4 & 6,7 this is happening now.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

You obviously cannot read

 

By the way, mgr also calls himself the EXACT image of "child of the woman clothed in the sun"

 

Also the one from which the millennial kingdom is from

 

If you knew your Bible you would CLEARLY see mgr is calling himself "Christ" or "Messiah"

 

1 ¶ Then I witnessed in heaven an event of great significance. I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

2 She was pregnant, and she cried out in the pain of labor as she awaited her delivery.

3 Suddenly, I witnessed in heaven another significant event. I saw a large red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, with seven crowns on his heads.

4 His tail dragged down one–third of the stars, which he threw to the earth. He stood before the woman as she was about to give birth to her child, ready to devour the baby as soon as it was born.

5 She gave birth to a boy who was to rule all nations with an iron rod. And the child was snatched away from the dragon and was caught up to God and to his throne. (Revelation 12:1-5)

 

Who is the Boy ruling with a Rod of Iron?

 

13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God.

14 The armies of heaven, dressed in pure white linen, followed him on white horses.

15 From his mouth came a sharp sword, and with it he struck down the nations. He ruled them with an iron rod, and he trod the winepress of the fierce wrath of almighty God.

16 On his robe and thigh was written this title: King of kings and Lord of lords. (Revelation 19:13-16)

 

You really DON'T know your Bible at all or you must be insane to believe this garbage

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing there that mentions Alpha and Omega, or first and last.

 

You people must be really desperate.

 

 

steve...?

 

mgr also claims to be the "First and the Last? The Alpha & Omega?

 

I'm curious as to where that is found

 

 

Thanks

 

Page 558 verses 6,7,8,9 (MGR Book 12 Article 2 verses 6-9)

 

Also- page 680 verse 2

 

[GoodDay 0]

Nad,

 

I too as the others have nothing personal against you and no reason to.

 

Already posted from Steve, their is ONE faith. Ephesians has been posted a million times on here. Doesn't it mean anything to you?

 

We all have the right to go to whatever church we feel God calling us to.

 

See, God did not call me and all kinds of other Molokans to Molokanism of today. My parents did, the elders did, other people did. I had no say so in it. I cannot marry out, because my parents told me that, the elders told me that, other people told me that. I had no say in that. If I die before my parents do, it will be with-out reading the "Last Rights," as that is not of God. If they have pominkee it won't matter because Jesus and pominkee are not of the same faith. Are you being called to the exact place you are right at this moment? If so, are you open to Him calling you to spreading the Gospel to Ne-Nash? I bet if you can ask Apostle Paul if he knew what God had planned for him he would not have believed it? Wow, was he in for a surprise. BUT, he obeyed AND he was constantly persecuted but kept on converting anyone who came his way or at least did his part in planting a seed or watering. He could have wrote a secret book about a new way and gave himself a title and new names and all that and fooled a bunch of people back then BUT he was a man of God with a mission. If Maxcim was even a real person he only was in prison for 9 years or so. He may have had privilages in there, who knows. He had a pencil which means he must have had an eraser and a pencil sharpener. History says he died a terrible death. BUT, that's nothing new and there are endless amounts of Martyres dying in much more vicious ways. None of them want praise? They are dying for thier convictions and that's it. Many times they are sneaking Bibles to people or preaching the Gospel and what conviction they have a God Bless them for what they do and have done. Obeying God comes with persicution. I don't think Paul had many friends when he was put to death. I would bet the Pharisee Jews could not understand why he just didn't some back and take the "easy" way. Good position. Well learned, well known (Sound Framiliar?). Paul did not hang on to the traditions of his forefathers and speak in thier language (Hebrew I guess)He recieved mans glory for persecuting "Ne=Nash."He probably had the best horse and a great home etc.. he could have just took that "easy way"- BUT that "easy" way leads to hell! Simple as that; Hell! I didn't make that up, It's in the Bible. No chance to fix things and no chance to repent. The day and night )(Dark all the time)torment and being aware of every single little sin one did. Cut-off from the one who could have saved and did save. But no going back for them who are cut off for ever. Not a million years. but forever! One second would feel like a 1000 years. An eternity to think about what Jesus did on the Cross and reminders of how close one may have been, but picked a man instead because parents told them to, and elders told them to, and others told them to. To feel God tugging but running to a man out of fear of getting shunned or kicked out or lose friends. I think hell will really be bad. In hell, people will be able to try their traditions to see if it will help there and it will be like a night-mare and all in slow motion. Then one will wake up to reality and it will be hell, worse than one can even imagine and all the stuff we fear here will not just be around us but will pull us in and over and over and over for ever. People will be smoking and second hand smoke will be everywhere

 

I cannot believe how much power that book has over people. like Seeking said,, it's insane. It's blatantly full of the worse kinds of deceiving lies. It's so easy to just see it. BUT people will pick it over Jesus Christ. It's scary. And these people will teach it to there kids and these same lies and so on and so on.

 

Jesus leads to Salvation

Macxim leads to hell.

 

Thank God for Jesus Christ!

 

I would rather face judgement as one with no belief and never have hearing the Gospel rather than face the judgment that Maxcim has prepared for them that follow him.

 

Thank God for Jesus Christ!

 

Paul

 

 

When was the last time anyone has heard in church that God is a hypocrite? Or that the Lord Jesus Christ is a liar? Or that the Apostles and the Disciples of Jesus were just a bunch of sanctimonious fools, leading others to believe what amounts to mere nonsense?

 

Why is it that our "Molokan people" have to come here to the internet to learn these pearls of wisdom that these elders believe, instead of in the churches?

 

 

COFFEE, wrote that, I just thought it funny! And sad!

 

If I choose to get my fill in a molokan church, is that making me hell bound?

According to you yes!

If I choose not to partake of the other christian faiths, I'm a racist?

 

Really Tim, is that christian? Paul didn't try to convert anybody,

he made them stronger in what they believed.

 

All you guys are after is blood, to destroy molokans.

"If you're not with us, you're against us" mind set.

 

If you want to bring people to Jesus, great!

Do that! Why bring all the other ###### into it?

 

There are a lot of people not happy with their churches, the elders (and members)

have a lot of work ahead of them, if they want to stop people from leaving!

 

Why don't you stop these gossip/bitch sessions and feed the people with

proper scriptural food, you sound like you know it all, so lets see some fruits!

 

Unless you're happy with the way things are(?).

 

[mud 0]

What other Christian Faiths??? Molokans love to use the coined phrase "you were born into this faith".

 

Totally un-biblical and a way to control and put fear into anyone who would dare go anywhere outside of "molokanism". It elevates the teaching of "molokanism", the "elders", the "obryat", the "clothes", the "brotherhood".

 

The Bible states:

 

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

Hey Steven - I'm really hesitant to reply here on this site, but I wanted to address just a few things with you, and I guess I don't have the ability to just PM you yet. Maybe it's for the best so that others may read this as well. Firstly, I consider you a very zealous man for Jesus, and I admire you for that. You've done great work for the Lord over the years, and I pray God gives you the strength and opportunity to continue.

 

Now I'd like to address a few things. You're right. There is only ONE faith, as scripture writes. But there are many sheepfolds within this faith (John 10). Christ understands this, and is perfectly OK with it. As long as those sheepfolds continue to hear His voice and follow Him. We were born into our sheepfold for a purpose. I don't believe God randomly places us in the world. Maybe this purpose is to help keep our sheepfold on track, focused on Christ. Don't get me wrong, I'm totally for helping others, everywhere, in every way, and I'm NOT stating that we should only help our own. I'm just trying to bring clarity to what many Molokans miss-communicate when they say "other faiths". I prefer to use the term "other sheepfolds" just like Jesus himself used it. Christ does say that He will bring us to be ONE sheepfold... and that will happen in the God's kingdom. But for now, there are many.

 

I am against the man made traditions that are put above the Commandments of God

I agree again. The commandments of God should be first. But that doesn't mean we just abandon all traditions. In fact Paul tells us to 'hold' to those traditions (2 Thessalonians 2:15). While I agree with you here, I've never noticed where, and I speak only for my experience at Milikoy church, where Milikoy has preached anything different.

 

the mind-set

Is there a general mind-set of Molokans? I wasn't aware of this. I'm sure there are a group of people that believe some pretty strange things, but there are also Molokans that believe strictly in the teachings of Christ.

 

the s&l, which advocates racism, salvation by works, a mere man proclaiming and damning people to hell for not agreeing with him (maxim), the "molokans are superior than all" attitude,

Seems here the issue is with ONE man, not an entire sheepfold. I wouldn't abandon everything just because it came through a sinner named Maxim. God uses sinful, awful people to do His will: a murderer lead Israel out of Egypt and in the end still sinned and was denied entrance into the promise land, a murderer and persecutor of the church wrote most of the epistles in the N.T., and one of the greatest kings in the eye's of God was a murderer and adulterer. But God used them all. The Molokan order and traditions were passed to us from God through a sinful man. It doesn't make us special, or righteous, or favorites... we're no greater than anyone else, but we are different.

 

Sure there are things that man has distorted and corrupted, so lets pray God blesses us with individuals who can work amongst us and help set things right with Jesus' help. But the general order of our worship services is quite Biblical. We sing songs and hymns (Colossians 3:16); we collectively set aside money for those in need (Matthew 25:40); we pray in one accord (Acts 1:14); our 'dyestviniks' reveal messages from God inline with how scripture dictates (1 Corinthians 14:29-33); we greet each other with a holy kiss (Romans 16:16); women are not allowed to give speeches or teach in church (1 Corinthians 14:34); we dress modestly by covering ourselves so as not to tempt one another in lust; our ministers are ordained, not by academia, but by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 3:7)... I could go on about the simplicity of our order of worship and how in tune with the Bible it is, but I'm sure you understand this having seen it yourself first hand.

 

the "work amongst your own people"

I understand your grief here. I defend time and time again your desire to help and serve others that are not Molokan. And I am truly sorry that there are Molokans who have criticized you for this. I hope that I stand as an example of Christ's love for you among the Molokan sheepfold.

 

a man (maxim) claiming to forgive sins, new jewish messiah, king of spirits, the man-child, and all the other titles he gives himself, not to mention the glory that he wanted. Singing songs about a man and praising a man, claiming to be the "first and last", the new "king".

And finally, again... Maxim. I cannot answer or attempt to explain the many difficulties the S&L presents, but I am searching for the truth in humility. I am seeking God-fearing elders for their wisdom and help. I pray everyday that God allows me to find and accept His truth, and that my pride and sense of all-knowing doesn't allow me to make quick and hasty judgments and come to false conclusions. And everyday God is providing me with His wisdom and understanding.

 

I pray everyone here heeds these words:

 

1 Peter 2:13-17

Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

 

May we help stop those who seek to malign others because of their "freedom".

 

[Guest El Scorcho Grande]

Mud,

 

You make it sound so innocent, just staying in our sheephold. But how is the separation maintained? How many parents, or grandparents no longer talk to their children or grandchildren because someone married out? How many people didn't attend a friends wedding because they married a Christian from another sheephold? How many cold shoulders, or harsh stares have been given? Children are often taught that if they go out with their nenash friends to a movie (don't even think about going to a Calvary youth group) be home by 10PM sharp, but if you are out at a Molokan party drinking with the narod try to be home by 3AM. Does this strike anybody as being of the example of Christ? Does this demonstrate God's love?

 

Galations 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." These are the words of God, it doesn't sound like he intends us to enforce a separation between Christians. Remember, though there might be different sheepholds, all of the sheep must still obey the Master's will, are we listening to his call.

 

By the way you mention that you sing songs, but to who? You mention that your dyestviniks reveal messages from God, but are they ever tested to see if they line up with Scripture? The Word of God? And finally you mention the difficulties the S&L presents, the S&L doesn't present difficulties, it presents heresies that are 100% antithetical to the Word of God found in the Bible. You don't "struggle with difficulties" with something that is against God, you get as far away from it as you can.

[GoodDay 0]

Mud,

 

I do truly see you as a Christian man and we have talk about the "other sheepfold" with you once and it made sense until I read John 10 closer.

 

BUT, John 10

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

He just says "sheep." Isn't Jesus talking about life hear on earth from then and now and until He returns, and every time a person becomes a believer he/ she becomes part of the the "One True Sheepfold" (Church). There are alot of different messages in John 10. It doesn't seem as though He is talking about going out to "groups" of people throughout the world and saving them as groups?

 

I read John 10 several times just now and I cannot see that.

 

There is only one Sheepfold and that's what He speaks of.

 

Can you please elaborate for us?

 

I know this post wasn't addressed to me but I just wanted to add this because we once talked about it on the phone and it made sense until I read it in the Bible.

 

Thanks Mud!

 

Paul

[GoodDay 0]

I forgot to add;

 

One Shepard, One Sheepfold.

 

If there were multiple sheepfolds then that would mean, multiple shepard's and that is what mgr claims to be also.

[stevepiv 0]

Now I'd like to address a few things. You're right. There is only ONE faith, as scripture writes. But there are many sheepfolds within this faith (John 10). Christ understands this, and is perfectly OK with it. As long as those sheepfolds continue to hear His voice and follow Him. We were born into our sheepfold for a purpose. I don't believe God randomly places us in the world. Maybe this purpose is to help keep our sheepfold on track, focused on Christ. Don't get me wrong, I'm totally for helping others, everywhere, in every way, and I'm NOT stating that we should only help our own. I'm just trying to bring clarity to what many Molokans miss-communicate when they say "other faiths". I prefer to use the term "other sheepfolds" just like Jesus himself used it. Christ does say that He will bring us to be ONE sheepfold... and that will happen in the God's kingdom. But for now, there are many.

 

Mud,

 

Thanks for your reply. If you don't feel comfortable conversing on the forum, you have my e-mail, cell & home #.

 

I would ask if you can please provide in John 10 where it states:

 

But there are many sheepfolds within this faith (John 10).

 

and

 

Christ understands this, and is perfectly OK with it. As long as those sheepfolds continue to hear His voice and follow Him.

 

**

 

 

Christ does say that He will bring us to be ONE sheepfold... and that will happen in the God's kingdom. But for now, there are many.

 

mud,

 

This is from human interference that there are many religions and sheepfolds. There's One Body with MANY parts, but no part can say to the other you're not needed.

 

Before the elders here in America closed the doors on everyone, what sheepfold were their parents born in?

 

What sheepfold was Semeon Matveeivich or Matvei Semeonivitch or Maxim Havrilovich born into???

 

Each person has a calling from God, he has a plan for me for you for our neighbors... If God calls on someone, that person can listen to what God is telling him or her, or....

 

Listen to a message that has been relayed by men and replayed:

 

We were born into our sheepfold for a purpose.

 

 

 

Hebrews 13:20 May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, 21 equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

 

[stevepiv 0]

I am against the man made traditions that are put above the Commandments of God

I agree again. The commandments of God should be first. But that doesn't mean we just abandon all traditions. In fact Paul tells us to 'hold' to those traditions (2 Thessalonians 2:15). While I agree with you here, I've never noticed where, and I speak only for my experience at Milikoy church, where Milikoy has preached anything different.

 

mud,

 

In your studies, what are the traditions Apostle Paul is telling them to hold to?

 

 

 

[stevepiv 0]

the mind-set

Is there a general mind-set of Molokans? I wasn't aware of this. I'm sure there are a group of people that believe some pretty strange things, but there are also Molokans that believe strictly in the teachings of Christ.

 

There are ABSOLUTELY Molokans that follow strictly Christ.

 

However it's sad to say that many NOT ALL of the elders have a "we're special" or "There are other believers out there, but we're the chosen ones" or "we have something special that you don't have" type of attitude.

 

You hear it come out during speeches and so called "dyestviyas".

 

It's shown by many, more out of ignorance becuase they are scared to speak out against the grain. And, we have all been brainwashed with it.

 

Recently a lady who has been away from the brotherhood for years relayed me what she went through.

 

She married an American man and a few years later went to the Molokan Church for a funeral, everyone gave her the dirty look and no one came up to her and gave a hug, or a word of comfort.

 

Now, I wasn't there to witness it, but she seemed sincere.

 

Again, not ALL Molokans are this way.

 

And, not ALL Non-Molokans are saints.

 

[stevepiv 0]

I am against the man made traditions that are put above the Commandments of God

I agree again. The commandments of God should be first. But that doesn't mean we just abandon all traditions. In fact Paul tells us to 'hold' to those traditions (2 Thessalonians 2:15). While I agree with you here, I've never noticed where, and I speak only for my experience at Milikoy church, where Milikoy has preached anything different.

 

mud,

 

In your studies, what are the traditions Apostle Paul is telling them to hold to?

 

The title of this thread is: "King of Spirits and God"

 

In the same chapter of 2nd Thessalonians 2 where we are told to hold onto the traditions that were handed down by word or epistle we have this warning earlier in the chapter:

 

2nd Thessalonians 2: KING JAMES VERSION for mud

 

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

 

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

 

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

 

and...

 

 

2nd Thessalonians NIV version:

 

1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

 

 

And here from the s&l:

 

"Therefore I Maxim am now called by His new name: King of Spirits and God of the faithful¦" Pg 465 Book 9:15:7

 

The issue isn't with just One man, but against the un-scriptural content, and it just so happens that this ONE man wrote majority of it.

[mud 0]

Mud,

 

You make it sound so innocent, just staying in our sheephold. But how is the separation maintained? How many parents, or grandparents no longer talk to their children or grandchildren because someone married out? How many people didn't attend a friends wedding because they married a Christian from another sheephold? How many cold shoulders, or harsh stares have been given? Children are often taught that if they go out with their nenash friends to a movie (don't even think about going to a Calvary youth group) be home by 10PM sharp, but if you are out at a Molokan party drinking with the narod try to be home by 3AM. Does this strike anybody as being of the example of Christ? Does this demonstrate God's love?

 

Galations 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." These are the words of God, it doesn't sound like he intends us to enforce a separation between Christians. Remember, though there might be different sheepholds, all of the sheep must still obey the Master's will, are we listening to his call.

 

By the way you mention that you sing songs, but to who? You mention that your dyestviniks reveal messages from God, but are they ever tested to see if they line up with Scripture? The Word of God? And finally you mention the difficulties the S&L presents, the S&L doesn't present difficulties, it presents heresies that are 100% antithetical to the Word of God found in the Bible. You don't "struggle with difficulties" with something that is against God, you get as far away from it as you can.

 

I agree completely. There are problems. Rather than criticize and malign a group of people, I am choosing to allow Christ to use me, that through my well-doing, I may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men. With Christ, anything is possible.

 

Yes... I sing songs to praise Jesus and God every time I'm in church, not to mention when I'm on my own or with my family. And I would agree that 'no' we don't test our 'dystviniks' enough. Jesus states how simple it is (1 Corinthians 12:3). We should definitely do this more, but I wouldn't say that it's 'never' done. I just saw someone test the 'dyestvinik' two weekends ago, so it does happen.

[mud 0]

Paul and Steven - Thank you for bringing up your view on John 10. Quite honestly, I've never read it that way, and your points are very valid. You are right, Christ never states that there are other sheepfolds, but rather just other sheep. I love challenges in the Word! I had always put 2 and 2 together which seemed to really fit the reason why there are so many Christian religious sects out there. Here's my take on it:

 

John 10: 16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

Jesus is speaking to believers (they already hear His voice and follow Him) who belong to a certain sheepfold. And He tells them that there are other sheep (believers) that are not of this group of believers. Now if there are 'other believers' who hear Christ, then the saving has already been done, and I would ask, what is the point to bring them into this first sheepfold that He's talking to? They are already believers, right? Jesus is already their Shepherd. I believe He's specifically talking about the kingdom come. Christ is talking to one group of believers, while also referencing another group of believers. And then says "I must bring them". And in the kingdom, we'll finally be of one fold... because as you mentioned, man's 'interference' will no longer happen.

 

But I like your interpretations as well! Great stuff.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

I do have a bit of a hard time with the idea of them, they and us

 

Christians are Christians and the denominationalizitation (I think I just made up a word) of Christianity seems more devisive than of benefit

 

If the core tenets of Christianity are agreed upon nothing else should matter

 

12 ¶ The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ.

13 Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles, some are slaves, and some are free. But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit, and we all share the same Spirit.

14 Yes, the body has many different parts, not just one part.

15 If the foot says, "I am not a part of the body because I am not a hand," that does not make it any less a part of the body.

16 And if the ear says, "I am not part of the body because I am not an eye," would that make it any less a part of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, how would you hear? Or if your whole body were an ear, how would you smell anything?

18 But our bodies have many parts, and God has put each part just where he wants it.

19 How strange a body would be if it had only one part!

20 Yes, there are many parts, but only one body. (1 Corinthians 12:12-20)

 

This is one of the MANY areas molokanism falls down

 

There is no "nash & ne-nash" at least according to the Bible

 

There are only Chrsitians and Non-Christians regardless of race or even style of worship

 

Sure there can be preferences but not held on to and made doctrine

 

Make sure "those traditions" are found in Scripture and DO NOT run contrary to Scripture...If they do, they need to be removed

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

What other Christian Faiths??? Molokans love to use the coined phrase "you were born into this faith".

 

Totally un-biblical and a way to control and put fear into anyone who would dare go anywhere outside of "molokanism". It elevates the teaching of "molokanism", the "elders", the "obryat", the "clothes", the "brotherhood".

 

The Bible states:

 

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

Hey Steven - I'm really hesitant to reply here on this site, but I wanted to address just a few things with you, and I guess I don't have the ability to just PM you yet. Maybe it's for the best so that others may read this as well. Firstly, I consider you a very zealous man for Jesus, and I admire you for that. You've done great work for the Lord over the years, and I pray God gives you the strength and opportunity to continue.

 

Now I'd like to address a few things. You're right. There is only ONE faith, as scripture writes. But there are many sheepfolds within this faith (John 10). Christ understands this, and is perfectly OK with it. As long as those sheepfolds continue to hear His voice and follow Him. We were born into our sheepfold for a purpose. I don't believe God randomly places us in the world. Maybe this purpose is to help keep our sheepfold on track, focused on Christ. Don't get me wrong, I'm totally for helping others, everywhere, in every way, and I'm NOT stating that we should only help our own. I'm just trying to bring clarity to what many Molokans miss-communicate when they say "other faiths". I prefer to use the term "other sheepfolds" just like Jesus himself used it. Christ does say that He will bring us to be ONE sheepfold... and that will happen in the God's kingdom. But for now, there are many.

 

I am against the man made traditions that are put above the Commandments of God

I agree again. The commandments of God should be first. But that doesn't mean we just abandon all traditions. In fact Paul tells us to 'hold' to those traditions (2 Thessalonians 2:15). While I agree with you here, I've never noticed where, and I speak only for my experience at Milikoy church, where Milikoy has preached anything different.

 

the mind-set

Is there a general mind-set of Molokans? I wasn't aware of this. I'm sure there are a group of people that believe some pretty strange things, but there are also Molokans that believe strictly in the teachings of Christ.

 

the s&l, which advocates racism, salvation by works, a mere man proclaiming and damning people to hell for not agreeing with him (maxim), the "molokans are superior than all" attitude,

Seems here the issue is with ONE man, not an entire sheepfold. I wouldn't abandon everything just because it came through a sinner named Maxim. God uses sinful, awful people to do His will: a murderer lead Israel out of Egypt and in the end still sinned and was denied entrance into the promise land, a murderer and persecutor of the church wrote most of the epistles in the N.T., and one of the greatest kings in the eye's of God was a murderer and adulterer. But God used them all. The Molokan order and traditions were passed to us from God through a sinful man. It doesn't make us special, or righteous, or favorites... we're no greater than anyone else, but we are different.

 

Sure there are things that man has distorted and corrupted, so lets pray God blesses us with individuals who can work amongst us and help set things right with Jesus' help. But the general order of our worship services is quite Biblical. We sing songs and hymns (Colossians 3:16); we collectively set aside money for those in need (Matthew 25:40); we pray in one accord (Acts 1:14); our 'dyestviniks' reveal messages from God inline with how scripture dictates (1 Corinthians 14:29-33); we greet each other with a holy kiss (Romans 16:16); women are not allowed to give speeches or teach in church (1 Corinthians 14:34); we dress modestly by covering ourselves so as not to tempt one another in lust; our ministers are ordained, not by academia, but by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 3:7)... I could go on about the simplicity of our order of worship and how in tune with the Bible it is, but I'm sure you understand this having seen it yourself first hand.

 

the "work amongst your own people"

I understand your grief here. I defend time and time again your desire to help and serve others that are not Molokan. And I am truly sorry that there are Molokans who have criticized you for this. I hope that I stand as an example of Christ's love for you among the Molokan sheepfold.

 

a man (maxim) claiming to forgive sins, new jewish messiah, king of spirits, the man-child, and all the other titles he gives himself, not to mention the glory that he wanted. Singing songs about a man and praising a man, claiming to be the "first and last", the new "king".

And finally, again... Maxim. I cannot answer or attempt to explain the many difficulties the S&L presents, but I am searching for the truth in humility. I am seeking God-fearing elders for their wisdom and help. I pray everyday that God allows me to find and accept His truth, and that my pride and sense of all-knowing doesn't allow me to make quick and hasty judgments and come to false conclusions. And everyday God is providing me with His wisdom and understanding.

 

I pray everyone here heeds these words:

 

1 Peter 2:13-17

Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

 

May we help stop those who seek to malign others because of their "freedom".

 

Mark,

Good to see you on here.

Hope all is well with you guys.

 

You brought out some good points.

 

I have found this site to be a great place to "dig deeper" into biblical christianity.

 

I like the verse you posted from 1 Peter. I see it has to do mostly with submission to other christians, especially those in leadership.

Here is a verse that also explains biblical submission.

 

17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Hebrews 13:17 KJV

 

I have found that this type of biblical submission is one of the most difficult things to do in the molokan brotherhood.

I am not saying it is not possible.

Just very difficult to find a christian leader in the brotherhood that is willing to disciple somebody, from sin to salvation.

 

Kevin Nazaroff