What Is A Molokan II

[SHVEYA 0]

I attend Molokan church because it suits me to.

Are you new to the Scriptures?

 

I have grown up and enjoy the holidays and most of the people. I enjoy my heritage and within the church I attend I am finding spiritual growth and experiencing for the first time encouragment to grow in Christ.

As you wish. Like many you will die like a Molokan. Is being Molokan a good way to die?

 

I grew up going to bible classes, learning scriptures but never studying them really. It wasnt till about 6 years ago I decided it was time, actually way beyond time to grow up and get serious about learning and about not only my salvation but my childrens. Shame on me, what had I done. My children new Christ but that was about it.

 

I will die a Molokan because I am a Molokan. But I will greet the lord as a Christan becuse that is who I am.

If you die just a Molokan there is no salvation.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

What is a molokan?

NO ONE has EVERY given a straight answer and backed it up Biblically

Maybe you could be the first...

<br />

I attend Molokan church because it suits me to.

Are you new to the Scriptures?<br /><br />

I have grown up and enjoy the holidays and most of the people. I enjoy my heritage and within the church I attend I am finding spiritual growth and experiencing for the first time encouragment to grow in Christ.

As you wish. Like many you will die like a Molokan. Is being Molokan a good way to die?<br />

<br /><br />I grew up going to bible classes, learning scriptures but never studying them really. It wasnt till about 6 years ago I decided it was time, actually way beyond time to grow up and get serious about learning and about not only my salvation but my childrens. Shame on me, what had I done. My children new Christ but that was about it. <br /><br />I will die a Molokan because I am a Molokan. But I will greet the lord as a Christan becuse that is who I am. <br />If you die just a Molokan there is no salvation.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Could you answer my question...?

 

 

What is a molokan?

 

NO ONE has EVERY given a straight answer and backed it up Biblically

 

Maybe you could be the first..

[SHVEYA 0]

Seeking~

I appologize that I have not answered you. I have had quite a week (see ****** posting). I will research this and get back to you shortly.

 

 

Steadfast~

If you truly came with an open mind and heart I would be thrilled to have you!

 

~Shveya

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Fair enough regarding your Biblical definition of a molokan

 

Seeking~

I appologize that I have not answered you. I have had quite a week (see ****** posting). I will research this and get back to you shortly.

 

 

Steadfast~

If you truly came with an open mind and heart I would be thrilled to have you!

 

~Shveya

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Still waiting for an answer

[LTTBT 0]

Fair enough regarding your Biblical definition of a molokan

 

Seeking~

I appologize that I have not answered you. I have had quite a week (see ****** posting). I will research this and get back to you shortly.

 

 

Steadfast~

If you truly came with an open mind and heart I would be thrilled to have you!

 

~Shveya

 

What is the Biblical definition Calveryiest seeking???

Show me in the Scriptures where the Apostles set up your order of worship?

Show me in the Scriptures where God told you how and where to build your worship palace?

Why do you have an icon everywhere at your place of worship?

Show me in the Scriptures where your paid clergy was established.

Show me in the Scriptures where God commanded to pass an offering plate?

Show me in the Scriptures where God told you to have a service where everyone can't participate, and just sit and watch the

stage show?

Edited August 4, 2008 by LTTBT

[Guest CCA211]

Fair enough regarding your Biblical definition of a molokan

 

Seeking~

I appologize that I have not answered you. I have had quite a week (see ****** posting). I will research this and get back to you shortly.

 

 

Steadfast~

If you truly came with an open mind and heart I would be thrilled to have you!

 

~Shveya

 

What is the Biblical definition Calveryiest seeking???

Show me in the Scriptures where the Apostles set up your order of worship?

Show me in the Scriptures where God told you how and where to build your worship palace?

Why do you have an icon everywhere at your place of worship?

Show me in the Scriptures where your paid clergy was established.

Show me in the Scriptures where God commanded to pass an offering plate?

Show me in the Scriptures where God told you to have a service where everyone can't participate, and just sit and watch the

stage show?

 

 

LTTBT,

 

Please show me in the scripture where the Apostles mention Maxcim being the ladder to heaven?

Please show me where in the scriptures where Christ told you to speak only Russian in church?

Why do you have icons such as the white hankerchiefs and prayer rugs in every Molokan Church?

Please show me where in the scriptures God commanded you to have a service where everyone can't participate. You know halfers, or quarter Molokans, or other Christians. Don't forget the stage show, going Na Krook, only the pure need apply.

 

It might surpirse you to find out that not all Christian churches are the same, there are actually many that are small and simple, where everyone can participate. For the record I find it a bit distracting when the church is outfitted with klieg lights, and audio visual equipment, but that is why there are other churches. If a particular church doesn't fit find one that does. What is important is the Word and knowledge of Jesus Christ, if you aren't getting that by all means go to another church.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Have you lost your mind?

 

What is the Biblical definition Calveryiest seeking???

Not sure what his means?

Show me in the Scriptures where the Apostles set up your order of worship?

Acts 2:42

Show me in the Scriptures where God told you how and where to build your worship palace?

Uh, you are kidding right...? A building is a building...It serves the purpose of affording protection from the elements. Why do you live in a structure? Are you somehow inferring that it's more "spiritual" to be outdoors?

Why do you have an icon everywhere at your place of worship?

Because there's no Biblical prohibition. Why does Taco Bell or a no parking sign have a logo (icon)? It's for identifiction...We're certainly not worshipping an logo as an idol yet molokans DO worship an idol in the form of the s&l on the prestol.

Don't believe me..? Try and remove it from the table and see what happens

Show me in the Scriptures where your paid clergy was established.

You really do not know...?

10 Wasn`t he actually speaking to us? Yes, it was written for us, so that the one who plows and the one who threshes the grain might both expect a share of the harvest.

11 Since we have planted spiritual seed among you, aren`t we entitled to a harvest of physical food and drink?

12 If you support others who preach to you, shouldn`t we have an even greater right to be supported? But we have never used this right. We would rather put up with anything than be an obstacle to the Good News about Christ.

13 Don`t you realize that those who work in the temple get their meals from the offerings brought to the temple? And those who serve at the altar get a share of the sacrificial offerings. (1 Corinthians 9:10-13 NLT)

 

Also

 

17 Elders who do their work well should be respected and paid well, especially those who work hard at both preaching and teaching.

18 For the Scripture says, "You must not muzzle an ox to keep it from eating as it treads out the grain." And in another place, "Those who work deserve their pay!" (1 Timothy 5:17-18 NLT)

 

By the way, our pastor will shortly no longer be receiving any pay from the Church...

Show me in the Scriptures where God commanded to pass an offering plate?

Would you prefer a bucket...? How about leaving it on a table with your right hand...? Does it make a difference how offerings are taken?

The Bible is full of instances where God established offerings... Does it matter how they are collected?

 

There's even an account where offerings were requested and there was so much, Moses had to tell the people to stop giving

 

2 So Moses summoned Bezalel and Oholiab and all the others who were specially gifted by the Lord and were eager to get to work.

3 Moses gave them the materials donated by the people of Israel as sacred offerings for the completion of the sanctuary. But the people continued to bring additional gifts each morning.

4 Finally the craftsmen who were working on the sanctuary left their work. 5 They went to Moses and reported, "The people have given more than enough materials to complete the job the Lord has commanded us to do!"

6 So Moses gave the command, and this message was sent throughout the camp: "Men and women, don`t prepare any more gifts for the sanctuary. We have enough!" So the people stopped bringing their sacred offerings.

7 Their contributions were more than enough to complete the whole project. (Exodus 36:2-7 NLT)

 

Show me in the Scriptures where God told you to have a service where everyone can't participate, and just sit and watch the stage show?

Not sure what you mean by this...? No stage shows, just a Bible study with some worship...See Acts 2:42

 

The thread IS what is a molokan in Biblical context

[seeking_truth_1 0]

What happened?

 

Did your plan little backfire?

 

Do remember this was an opportunity for someone to define in Biblical terms what a molokan is

 

Is it a cultural identifier, a religion, a church or a patchwork of all ?

 

Shveya was going to and perhaps lost their way

 

You decided to try and deflect attention away from the topic and failed

 

You then tried to inflame the dialog by using hyperbolic traditionalist rhetoric like "stage show" and "worship palace"

 

It's well past April 1 so I would have to imagine you are serious

 

ALL of the "issues" you brought up are distinctives and are Non-Salvation issues

 

Why is that?

 

Are those things that important?

 

I recently had a dialog with someone who has come to faith and they called those types of things baggage

 

Are you regarding all of the cultural elements of molokanism as more important that an unencumbered relationship with the Lord?

 

Back to the topic at hand

[seeking_truth_1 0]

What happened to this thread LTTBT?

 

Are you satisfied with the Biblical references that explain away your rant?

[seeking_truth_1 0]

By the way you never addressed this either

[LTTBT 0]

LTTBT,

 

Please show me in the scripture where the Apostles mention Maxcim being the ladder to heaven?

You will need to ask somebody who knows about Maxcim, I don't

 

Please show me where in the scriptures where Christ told you to speak only Russian in church?

You will need to ask somebody who knows russian, I don't

 

 

Why do you have icons such as the white hankerchiefs and prayer rugs in every Molokan Church?

They are not icons to me.

 

 

Please show me where in the scriptures God commanded you to have a service where everyone can't participate. You know halfers, or quarter Molokans, or other Christians. Don't forget the stage show, going Na Krook, only the pure need apply.

Ask the "leaders'" of that group why.

 

 

It might surpirse you to find out that not all Christian churches are the same, there are actually many that are small and simple, where everyone can participate. For the record I find it a bit distracting when the church is outfitted with klieg lights, and audio visual equipment, but that is why there are other churches. If a particular church doesn't fit find one that does. What is important is the Word and knowledge of Jesus Christ, if you aren't getting that by all means go to another church.

I agree with you

[Guest Guest steadfast]

You will need to ask somebody who knows about Maxcim, I don't.

You will need to ask somebody who knows russian, I don't.

They are not icons to me.

Ask the "leaders'" of that group why.

You don't know about Maxim, you can't speak Russian, what kind of Molokan are you? Sound like a typical Molokan in denial. Nice group of "No answer" answers.

 

You never answered my question; You stated in one of your posts, today's Molokans are not the Christians of Uklein's time and that we should get back to those beliefs. My question is....Then LTTBT what kind of Christians are we?....... And you never answered.......Still waiting.......So far it looks like you just shoot your mouth off with baseless statements and when asked about them you play the denial card like a New Israel minister.

[Guest B88011]

LTTBT,

 

Please show me in the scripture where the Apostles mention Maxcim being the ladder to heaven?

You will need to ask somebody who knows about Maxcim, I don't

 

Please show me where in the scriptures where Christ told you to speak only Russian in church?

You will need to ask somebody who knows russian, I don't

 

 

Why do you have icons such as the white hankerchiefs and prayer rugs in every Molokan Church?

They are not icons to me.

 

 

Please show me where in the scriptures God commanded you to have a service where everyone can't participate. You know halfers, or quarter Molokans, or other Christians. Don't forget the stage show, going Na Krook, only the pure need apply.

Ask the "leaders'" of that group why.

 

 

It might surpirse you to find out that not all Christian churches are the same, there are actually many that are small and simple, where everyone can participate. For the record I find it a bit distracting when the church is outfitted with klieg lights, and audio visual equipment, but that is why there are other churches. If a particular church doesn't fit find one that does. What is important is the Word and knowledge of Jesus Christ, if you aren't getting that by all means go to another church.

I agree with you

 

 

The questions given dealt with where in scripture would you find the answers to these questions, by scriptures I did not mean the S & L. You don't have to have any knowledge of MGR (better for your eternity if you don't) or russian in order to delve in and discover the truth for yourself.

 

As for Icons, you, yourself brought that up stating that other Christian chrurch's had them, has it ever occurred to you that people that attend these church's might not consider them idols either? In fact it is very unlikely that anyone worships the crosses, and steeples you may see in other churches.

 

As for asking the leader's of that group why, how would I, the practice is more widespread than one or two churches, besides I know enough of the bible to know that this is not a christian practice, there isn't anything they could say that will make it right, it really isn't up to them is it?

 

You owe yourself and your family better answers than these. This is a serious topic and demands serious thought, your life really does depend on it.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Growing up in Bible classes does not make a Christian like growing up in a barn make you a horse

 

You never answered the question...what is a molokan?

 

I grew up going to bible classes, learning scriptures but never studying them really. It wasnt till about 6 years ago I decided it was time, actually way beyond time to grow up and get serious about learning and about not only my salvation but my childrens. Shame on me, what had I done. My children new Christ but that was about it.

 

I will die a Molokan because I am a Molokan. But I will greet the lord as a Christan becuse that is who I am.

If you die just a Molokan there is no salvation.

[LTTBT 0]

You never answered my question; You stated in one of your posts, today's Molokans are not the Christians of Uklein's time and that we should get back to those beliefs. My question is....Then LTTBT what kind of Christians are we?....... And you never answered.......Still waiting.......So far it looks like you just shoot your mouth off with baseless statements and when asked about them you play the denial card like a New Israel minister.

 

Link the post where I said those things.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Still waiting

 

What happened?

 

Did your plan little backfire?

 

Do remember this was an opportunity for someone to define in Biblical terms what a molokan is

 

Is it a cultural identifier, a religion, a church or a patchwork of all ?

 

Shveya was going to and perhaps lost their way

 

You decided to try and deflect attention away from the topic and failed

 

You then tried to inflame the dialog by using hyperbolic traditionalist rhetoric like "stage show" and "worship palace"

 

It's well past April 1 so I would have to imagine you are serious

 

ALL of the "issues" you brought up are distinctives and are Non-Salvation issues

 

Why is that?

 

Are those things that important?

 

I recently had a dialog with someone who has come to faith and they called those types of things baggage

 

Are you regarding all of the cultural elements of molokanism as more important that an unencumbered relationship with the Lord?

 

Back to the topic at hand

[Guest Guest steadfast]

You never answered my question; You stated in one of your posts, today's Molokans are not the Christians of Uklein's time and that we should get back to those beliefs. My question is....Then LTTBT what kind of Christians are we?....... And you never answered.......Still waiting.......So far it looks like you just shoot your mouth off with baseless statements and when asked about them you play the denial card like a New Israel minister.

 

Link the post where I said those things.

It was either you or EGK, I'll work on it.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Still waiting on this

 

Seeking~

I appologize that I have not answered you. I have had quite a week (see ****** posting). I will research this and get back to you shortly.

 

 

Steadfast~

If you truly came with an open mind and heart I would be thrilled to have you!

 

~Shveya

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Over a year later and still waiting for an answer to this

[Guest Guest]

Unfortunately you chased them away with your witch hunt.

 

 

Over a year later and still waiting for an answer to this

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Witch hunt?

 

Ask me about my faith...

 

I can explain it and will give you a Biblical basis for what I believe

 

Nothing to hide... No skeletons...no vague answers veiled in psuedo-religious speak

 

Why can't ANYONE give a Biblical basis for molokanism?

 

The exclusion of people based upon race

The shunning of people because they went to a "ne-nash" Bible study

The acceptance of a book as "scripture" that is clearly contrary to the Bible

 

Not a witch hunt, a challenge and NO ONE can explain it to ANYONE

 

Shouldn't that call into question the basis for molokanism?

 

If you cannot explain it in terms of Biblical precedence, how can you explain it to ANYONE especially if you are affirming it to be "truth"?

 

Please provide a Biblical basis for molokanism and I will discontinue this line of questioning

 

Seems fair...

 

 

Unfortunately you chased them away with your witch hunt.

 

 

Over a year later and still waiting for an answer to this

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Disciple...

 

Been down this road a few times

 

NO ONE can give anyone a BIBLICAL reason for molokanism especially what it has turned into in the 21st century

 

Even if you got back to the "roots", I still do not think you'll like what you'll find

 

Do review the russian disseners book I posted

 

russian_dissenters.pdf

 

Not very flattering

[seeking_truth_1 0]

To The Top

[Guest A question]

What does "to the top" signify?

 

 

To The Top

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Usually when someone cannot find Biblical answers for their "true faith" they disappear and abandon the thread

 

"To the top" brings this point back to the top of the thread for discussion

 

This was an opportunity for someone to define in Biblical terms what a molokan is

 

So how about you?

[Guest guest]

Usually when someone cannot find Biblical answers for their "true faith" they disappear and abandon the thread

 

"To the top" brings this point back to the top of the thread for discussion

 

This was an opportunity for someone to define in Biblical terms what a molokan is

 

So how about you?

as described by scripture molokans and their guests are spiritual adulterers

 

[lastinline 0]

Usually when someone cannot find Biblical answers for their "true faith" they disappear and abandon the thread

 

"To the top" brings this point back to the top of the thread for discussion

 

This was an opportunity for someone to define in Biblical terms what a molokan is

 

So how about you?

as described by scripture molokans and their guests are spiritual adulterers

 

 

Come on, you can a be nicer than that.

 

lastinline (& not stuck in a time warp)

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Steve sound like a Christian...

 

Could you define what a molokan believes and use The Bible as a basis for that "faith"?

 

I'm sure you'll fail at this but I'm going to continue to ask

 

You're supposed to be able to explain your "faith" yet NO ONE (molokan) has done so

 

Why is that?

 

Why would you want steve to leave this site?

 

It seems you should unless you can make a case for your cult faith from Scripture

 

Steve has tasted and seen The Lord is Good (Psalm 34:8)

 

You sound like sour grapes

 

27 ¶ "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and the seed of beast.

28 "And it shall come to pass, that as I have watched over them to pluck up, to break down, to throw down, to destroy, and to afflict, so I will watch over them to build and to plant, says the LORD.

29 "In those days they shall say no more: ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’

30 "But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge. (Jeremiah 31:27-30)

 

 

I will certainly give one thing Steven,

You don't sound like a molokan any more.

All you have to do is distance your self from all things molokan

including this site, and you will be a perfect "Christian"

 

 

I still question why a "Christian" is going to a Molokan church. You lastinline know that this is what you are going to get when you are putting yourself in a gathering that is controlled by the spirit of the anti-Christ.

 

Seeking_Truth_1 has exhorted, cautioned, warned, encouraged all the Christians that are Molokan to seek out and start attending a Bible Based Church.

 

This is not one of Seeking's suggestion, but a continuous message and pattern throughout the New Testament. It is a pattern that Christians wanted to join to a Church that would Glorify God and Exalt Jesus Christ.

 

At a Molokan church- lastinline: Do you submit to the elders of your Church? Do you consider yourself to be accountable to them? Are you being discipled? Have they gotten to know you and counsel you? Offer you Biblical counseling, encouragement, exhortation, correction? What current study is your Church offering to equip the Saints? Does the Molokan church you attend, regularly partake of The Lord's Table? Are there opportunities for new believers to be baptised? Are there community outreaches, in order to obey The Great Commission to go into ALL the World and Preach The Gospel? Do the Pastors, Elders, Deacons, Teachers, Evangelists qualify to hold that position according to Scripture?

 

[Guest A Russian Molokan]

By the way, what exactly is a molokan?

 

Molokan is defined by our Russian preceptors and forefathers who founded the denomination and this is recorded in the S&L.

 

These preceptors and forefathers accepted the Bible is the supreme rule of life and God's word, and they defined it's interpretation and application for the Molokan denomination and is recorded in the S&L.

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Sounds like double-speak

 

What IS a molokan?

 

What are the tenets?

 

By the way, what exactly is a molokan?

 

Molokan is defined by our Russian preceptors and forefathers who founded the denomination and this is recorded in the S&L.

 

These preceptors and forefathers accepted the Bible is the supreme rule of life and God's word, and they defined it's interpretation and application for the Molokan denomination and is recorded in the S&L.

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Hello?

 

No answers?

 

Funny how people can be so jealous for a cult and so very "sure" they are "right" yet they cannot explain themselves in light of Scripture

 

Sounds like GARBAGE not Faith to me

 

Sounds like double-speak

 

What IS a molokan?

 

What are the tenets?

 

By the way, what exactly is a molokan?

 

Molokan is defined by our Russian preceptors and forefathers who founded the denomination and this is recorded in the S&L.

 

These preceptors and forefathers accepted the Bible is the supreme rule of life and God's word, and they defined it's interpretation and application for the Molokan denomination and is recorded in the S&L.

 

[Guest Guest]

Jesus didn't remove sin but he took the sins of the world on himself.

OK lets see if I'm understanding your spoken and church commitments correctly. Your lips say, Salvation comes through Jesus, while your church commitment says forgiveness-removal of sin and the subsequent judgment of Salvation belong to the King of Spirits.

 

Your church commitment.

Rudometkin aka The Spirit of truth, page 604.2... "I proclaim justice and the judgment of salvation. Yes, verily. Amen."…….

 

Spirit and Life book page 476 v5. And, for this reason every believer of the Spirit of truth must quickly and before all accept him, our Maxim, as the King personified. 6. And bow down at his feet with gifts that whatever any person sincerely gives from his soul. 7. And for this each will receive a blessing from him for the ages of the age. Amen, truth, Amen."

 

Is this what is meant by the phrase Christian Molokan?