Ladder, Ladder...who Is The Ladder?

[seeking_truth_1 0]

mgr makes this claim

 

"And I am the 7 story heavenly ladder, by which the prayers of the holy ones forever ascend and descend" mgr 8:14:32

 

Yet Jacob has a vision in Genesis regarding a ladder

"10 Now Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Haran.

11 So he came to a certain place and stayed there all night, because the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of that place and put it at his head, and he lay down in that place to sleep.

12 Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder [was] set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.

13 And behold, the LORD stood above it and said: "I [am] the LORD God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants.

14 "Also your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you shall spread abroad to the west and the east, to the north and the south; and in you and in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

15 "Behold, I [am] with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have spoken to you."" (Genesis 28:10-15 NKJV)

 

Is Jacob having a vision of mgr as this ladder?

 

Now wait a minute...Let look a bit further in Scripture to see

 

"47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!"

48 Nathanael said to Him, "How do You know me?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."

49 Nathanael answered and said to Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!"

50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you, I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You will see greater things than these."

51 And He said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man."" (John 1:47-51 NKJV)

 

Is mgr again claiming to be the Messiah?

 

I again ask the question to the "Christians"...

 

Why are you or that book still there?

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Here's a more overt references to himself

 

In Book 10:12 MGR as spirit (v1) king (v1) and prophet (v1), the palm-tree pillar (v3) , the gates of Zion (v5) , the seven-story ladder (v7), the white steed (v8), and the Divine messenger the two-winged falcon (v11).

 

Not sure how much more clearly you need this shown that mgr is claiming to be Jesus

[seeking_truth_1 0]

No one has any thing to say about these claims?

[GoodDay 0]

Thanks for looking Seeking,

 

The ones you pointed out have a lot of good (bad) stuff and I can get info from each one. That will work for now.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Here mgr claims to be the ladder as does Jesus

 

There aren't enough rungs for both

 

It's One or the other

[Guest Sought and Found]

Here's a more overt references to himself

 

In Book 10:12 MGR as spirit (v1) king (v1) and prophet (v1), the palm-tree pillar (v3) , the gates of Zion (v5) , the seven-story ladder (v7), the white steed (v8), and the Divine messenger the two-winged falcon (v11).

 

Not sure how much more clearly you need this shown that mgr is claiming to be Jesus

 

 

Dear Seeking:

 

In all of these years, whenever the questions have ever been brought up about what MGR wrote, you most frequently get this answer (and it really blows my mind): "You don't understand, he's speaking about SPIRITUAL things"...or, "You don't understand, he's speaking IN THE SPIRIT."

 

 

Well, after years of study, I "sought" and I "found". OF COURSE IT IS SPIRITUAL AND OF COURSE HE IS SPEAKING IN THE SPIRIT BECAUSE SATAN IS A SPIRIT!!

 

Satan wants glory for himself IN THE SPIRIT/SPIRITUAL WORLD!!!!!!!! That's the only place it really matters for him.

 

In reference to your quotes above, MGR, IN THE (SATANIC) SPIRIT, is wanting the place of Jesus. But, as is his modus operandi which must include his "hoofprints" or his "signature", he also calls himself the two-winged falcon because the SATANIC SPIRIT is also the same spirit of the falcon-god HORUS. "Uzghoris" in ancient Hebrew is "my strength is Horus".

 

So, in summary....MOLOKANS!!!!!!! MGR was possessed by a demonic spirit (yes, he is writing "in a spirit" and what he writes IS SPIRITUAL) and that demonic spirit was seeking glory for Satan.

 

Keep "coddling" those Makcimisti who promote this book and keep making "excuses" and when Jesus comes to gather His Bride, the one who has kept herself clean and unspotted, you will stand with your mouths gaping open. Your own words will convict you: "But, but, it's spiritual!!!" Yep, it surely is spiritual and of a spirit--a demonic spirit!

 

Sought and Found

(I've seen the Light -- and I want nothing to do with the darkness!)

[lastinline 0]

COOL !!

 

lastinline (& on the wings of a dove)

 

Here's a more overt references to himself

 

In Book 10:12 MGR as spirit (v1) king (v1) and prophet (v1), the palm-tree pillar (v3) , the gates of Zion (v5) , the seven-story ladder (v7), the white steed (v8), and the Divine messenger the two-winged falcon (v11).

 

Not sure how much more clearly you need this shown that mgr is claiming to be Jesus

 

 

Dear Seeking:

 

In all of these years, whenever the questions have ever been brought up about what MGR wrote, you most frequently get this answer (and it really blows my mind): "You don't understand, he's speaking about SPIRITUAL things"...or, "You don't understand, he's speaking IN THE SPIRIT."

 

 

Well, after years of study, I "sought" and I "found". OF COURSE IT IS SPIRITUAL AND OF COURSE HE IS SPEAKING IN THE SPIRIT BECAUSE SATAN IS A SPIRIT!!

 

Satan wants glory for himself IN THE SPIRIT/SPIRITUAL WORLD!!!!!!!! That's the only place it really matters for him.

 

In reference to your quotes above, MGR, IN THE (SATANIC) SPIRIT, is wanting the place of Jesus. But, as is his modus operandi which must include his "hoofprints" or his "signature", he also calls himself the two-winged falcon because the SATANIC SPIRIT is also the same spirit of the falcon-god HORUS. "Uzghoris" in ancient Hebrew is "my strength is Horus".

 

So, in summary....MOLOKANS!!!!!!! MGR was possessed by a demonic spirit (yes, he is writing "in a spirit" and what he writes IS SPIRITUAL) and that demonic spirit was seeking glory for Satan.

 

Keep "coddling" those Makcimisti who promote this book and keep making "excuses" and when Jesus comes to gather His Bride, the one who has kept herself clean and unspotted, you will stand with your mouths gaping open. Your own words will convict you: "But, but, it's spiritual!!!" Yep, it surely is spiritual and of a spirit--a demonic spirit!

 

Sought and Found

(I've seen the Light -- and I want nothing to do with the darkness!)

[seeking_truth_1 0]

All the debate about not exposing the s&l for the satanic heresy it represents I believe is misguided

 

Some within molokanism would have you believe the issues facing the cult of molokanism are benign or nominal doctrinal issues at worst

 

Nothing could be further from The Truth

 

Since the s&l plays such a prominent role in ALL aspects of the cult of molokanism, albeit at times unwittingly, it does need to exposed

 

You tell people about who Jesus is and yet they want to cling to the lies propagated by the elders as put forth in the s&l

 

The "you're the new israel...a special people not part of the ecumenical 666 church" blah blah blah is all rooted in the s&l and ultimately Hell by proxy

 

This thread CLEARLY illustrates mgr as one who is looking to replace Jesus as the Only Way, therefore the need to REMOVE the s&l from EVERY aspect of molokanism is requisite if molokanism is to survive

 

The deception is clear yet there are people who believe they can participate in the occult AND still think they are a "christian"

 

Scripture does not allow for this

 

Revisit the ramblings of mgr and his desire to usurp the the authority rightfully possessed by Jesus

 

Prayerfully consider your continued participation with ANYTHING to do with the s&l

[seeking_truth_1 0]

This is again more evidence of molokanism being a cult

 

As long as the extra book is there, molokanism will remain a cult regardless of what the members say

[Guest El Scorcho Grande]

The S&L = Death. It is no different than leaving a loaded gun on the coffee table in a room where your kids are playing. What do you think the message being sent to all and especially children is when the S&L is kept on the Prestol, when it is always given such respect and reverence? Is it possible that they may grow up thinking that this book is special? That this book makes us special. What happens when they do pick it uo and read it? With the background of their whole life telling them that it is right? Should you be shocked when some twist everything else around including the Bible to make it fit? What MGR wrote in the S&L is evil, let there be no doubt about that, he fully sought to have others venerate him, he set himself up as a king and god over the Molokan people and was furious when some didn't follow his every command, to the point of asking that people be killed. The S&L doesn't contain any spiritual wisdom from the Holy Spirit. The S&L is indistinguishable from a satanic bible, both are designed to lead one away from God, both have had their impact. Would you stay one second in a Church that had the satanic bible as it's cornerstone? It shouldn't be any different with the S&L. Those of you who are called to minister from within, the discussion needs to be started, if we truly have love then we can't allow people to be lied to any longer, we can't allow people to be mislead. So many think that they have to wait for the Holy Spirit to lead them, but if the Holy Spirit has lead you to read and study the Bible, then isn't that the same thing, isn't that like listening to God's voice. If God took all that trouble to give us his words, then we should probably listen.

[stevepiv 0]

D a n i e l M B or NAD923,

 

More of your beliefs:

 

S&L pg. 476 Book 9 Article 25 verses 5-7

 

5. For this reason each believer of the spirit of truth must quickly and before all accept him, our Maxim as the King personified.

6. And bow down at his feet with gifts, whatever any person gives sincerely from his soul.

7. For this each will receive a blessing from him to last for ages. Amen,truth amen.

 

This is interpreted as of being on your knees in front of the presbyter, personifying or symbolizing Jesus as high priest, and asking for your offering to be accepted, which is symbolized by the bread and salt, and then a blessing from the Holy Spirit thorugh the laying-on of hands. Or even placing charity on the table, with the book Spirit and Life (symbolizing Maxim Gavrilovich sitting on the prestol - the throne), with the New Testament (symbolizing Jesus, next to him), to represent our spiritual community. No reason to make texts complex.

 

Is Jesus pleased with these words? Is He Glorified in these words? If the Lamb of God is not The Center of Attention, He's NOT THERE!!!!!

 

 

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

The S&L = Death. It is no different than leaving a loaded gun on the coffee table in a room where your kids are playing. What do you think the message being sent to all and especially children is when the S&L is kept on the Prestol, when it is always given such respect and reverence? Is it possible that they may grow up thinking that this book is special? That this book makes us special. What happens when they do pick it uo and read it? With the background of their whole life telling them that it is right? Should you be shocked when some twist everything else around including the Bible to make it fit? What MGR wrote in the S&L is evil, let there be no doubt about that, he fully sought to have others venerate him, he set himself up as a king and god over the Molokan people and was furious when some didn't follow his every command, to the point of asking that people be killed. The S&L doesn't contain any spiritual wisdom from the Holy Spirit. The S&L is indistinguishable from a satanic bible, both are designed to lead one away from God, both have had their impact. Would you stay one second in a Church that had the satanic bible as it's cornerstone? It shouldn't be any different with the S&L. Those of you who are called to minister from within, the discussion needs to be started, if we truly have love then we can't allow people to be lied to any longer, we can't allow people to be mislead. So many think that they have to wait for the Holy Spirit to lead them, but if the Holy Spirit has lead you to read and study the Bible, then isn't that the same thing, isn't that like listening to God's voice. If God took all that trouble to give us his words, then we should probably listen.

The goal of discipleship is to teach ALL of Jesus commandments.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matthew 28:19-20 AV

Not just some of Jesus' teachings, and not just the warnings.

And, although this would include warnings of evil, evil is not and should not be the focal point.

 

There are so many molokan people who have never ever read that book.

Why subject them to religion, when you can preach and teach Jesus Christ?

 

Your focus on battling that book must be kept in its proper perspective.

 

Our focus should be on Jesus first, second and last.

 

And to those who feel they have been called to do battle with maxim, don't assume that that is the only work to be done in the molokan brotherhood.

 

Kevin Nazaroff

Edited November 10, 2010 by KevinPolyaNazaroff

[stevepiv 0]

The goal of discipleship is to teach ALL of Jesus commandments.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matthew 28:19-20 AV

Not just some of Jesus' teachings, and not just the warnings.

And, although this would include warnings of evil, evil is not and should not be the focal point.

 

There are so many molokan people who have never ever read that book.

Why subject them to religion, when you can preach and teach Jesus Christ?

 

Your focus on battling that book must be kept in its proper perspective.

 

Our focus should be on Jesus first, second and last.

 

And to those who feel they have been called to do battle with maxim, don't assume that that is the only work to be done in the molokan brotherhood.

 

Kevin Nazaroff

 

Kevin,

 

EVERY MOLOKAN has been subjected to the heresy in that book. If you went to a spevka class, or a Molokan Bible Class, there was theology from that evil book the Spirit & Life.

 

And, YES YES YES, Jesus Christ IS the MAIN FOCUS POINT, NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!

 

There are times when the grounds need to be cleared and the junk needs to be thrown out as well.

 

The racism comes from the S&L, the infant baptismal regeneration theology comes from the S&L, DENIAL of the deity of Jesus Christ comes from the S&L, a hint of Necromancy comes from the S&L....

 

And, Christians still go there and "blend in".

[stevepiv 0]

Why subject them to religion, when you can preach and teach Jesus Christ?

 

Kevin,

 

You do make an excellent point here and for anyone who is wintessing to Molokans, Catholics, Mormon's, etc....

 

There asre some people who have NO CLUE of the false in their religion, and it's not profitable to bring up the heresy.

 

Preach Jesus Christ Crucified for sinful men like us ALL.

 

Thanks for bringing that out!!!

[Guest jkornoff]

Why subject them to religion, when you can preach and teach Jesus Christ?

 

Kevin,

 

You do make an excellent point here and for anyone who is wintessing to Molokans, Catholics, Mormon's, etc....

 

There asre some people who have NO CLUE of the false in their religion, and it's not profitable to bring up the heresy.

 

Preach Jesus Christ Crucified for sinful men like us ALL.

 

Thanks for bringing that out!!!

 

 

I agree, preach the gospel of Christ Jesus. If God decides to convert him/her than HE will clean the person out/sanctify him/her.

We have our testimony and the Gospel.

 

Everyone deserves to hear the Gospel once!

 

[NAD923 0]

D a n i e l M B or NAD923,

 

More of your beliefs:

 

S&L pg. 476 Book 9 Article 25 verses 5-7

 

5. For this reason each believer of the spirit of truth must quickly and before all accept him, our Maxim as the King personified.

6. And bow down at his feet with gifts, whatever any person gives sincerely from his soul.

7. For this each will receive a blessing from him to last for ages. Amen,truth amen.

 

This is interpreted as of being on your knees in front of the presbyter, personifying or symbolizing Jesus as high priest, and asking for your offering to be accepted, which is symbolized by the bread and salt, and then a blessing from the Holy Spirit thorugh the laying-on of hands. Or even placing charity on the table, with the book Spirit and Life (symbolizing Maxim Gavrilovich sitting on the prestol - the throne), with the New Testament (symbolizing Jesus, next to him), to represent our spiritual community. No reason to make texts complex.

 

Is Jesus pleased with these words? Is He Glorified in these words? If the Lamb of God is not The Center of Attention, He's NOT THERE!!!!!

 

 

Matt. 21

 

42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

 

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

44And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

 

 

There maybe some over zealous out there, but this goes both ways,

 

but you do not know me.

 

 

 

Over the past year, I thought you guys might have matured a little.

 

I guess not.

 

Why can't we have a normal discussion?

 

Why do you keep turning me into your flogging pole?

 

Is this how your elders treated you?

 

Is that why you are upset with the molokans?

 

Then why are you doing the same thing to others now?

 

Just because I call myself a molokan, I am worthy of this kind of treatment?

 

 

By grace does it matter if I am a good person or not? As long as I have faith in Jesus, all is forgiven?

 

All the scripture and the teachings/opinions of those scholars that you guys quote,

You use to belittle the people that call themselves molokans.

 

 

I came back on to try and find out why?

 

 

I heard there is a main stream church that is going to take the S&L of the prestol.

 

Question is are you going to be there, supporting them, after they have done that?

 

Or are you all happy in your "amazing grace/bleeding hearts" churches.

 

If you are happy with were you're at, LEAVE US ALONE!

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

That certainly would be a very good start but, if it's not completely removed, it is a useless gesture

 

You want a "normal" discussion yet you won't answer questions a True Christian should have no problem openly answering

 

That's hardly conversational

 

You also advocate a book that is opposite of God and want to call yourself a "christian"

 

I'm sorry, but in no uncertain terms, you cannot do that

 

Scripture states

 

9 ¶ When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin.

10 But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that.

11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don't even eat with such people.

12 It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning.

13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you." (1 Corinthians 5:9-13)

 

Seeing as you claim to be a "christian" you are treated as an idol worshipper

 

If you were in a vacuum and only going down the wrong road, that would be one thing

 

What about all the others you will lead astray with your lies?

 

Who will speak up and defend them against the likes of you?

 

We are putting forth Biblical Truth and contrasting that against the tenets of the cult of molokanism

 

It's that simple and NO I'll not just leave it alone

 

I heard there is a main stream church that is going to take the S&L of the prestol.

Question is are you going to be there, supporting them, after they have done that?

 

 

Matt. 21

 

42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

 

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

44And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

 

 

There maybe some over zealous out there, but this goes both ways,

 

but you do not know me.

 

 

 

Over the past year, I thought you guys might have matured a little.

 

I guess not.

 

Why can't we have a normal discussion?

 

Why do you keep turning me into your flogging pole?

 

Is this how your elders treated you?

 

Is that why you are upset with the molokans?

 

Then why are you doing the same thing to others now?

 

Just because I call myself a molokan, I am worthy of this kind of treatment?

 

 

By grace does it matter if I am a good person or not? As long as I have faith in Jesus, all is forgiven?

 

All the scripture and the teachings/opinions of those scholars that you guys quote,

You use to belittle the people that call themselves molokans.

 

 

I came back on to try and find out why?

 

 

I heard there is a main stream church that is going to take the S&L of the prestol.

 

Question is are you going to be there, supporting them, after they have done that?

 

Or are you all happy in your "amazing grace/bleeding hearts" churches.

 

If you are happy with were you're at, LEAVE US ALONE!

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Amen SP!

 

Either it's Sola Scriptura or it's nothing

 

As long as the s&l is ANYWHERE within the confines of a molokan "church" it will be a cult

 

Kevin, the evidence is there yet you still want to place new wine in old wineskins

 

The Bible clearly states that will not work.

 

 

The goal of discipleship is to teach ALL of Jesus commandments.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matthew 28:19-20 AV

Not just some of Jesus' teachings, and not just the warnings.

And, although this would include warnings of evil, evil is not and should not be the focal point.

 

There are so many molokan people who have never ever read that book.

Why subject them to religion, when you can preach and teach Jesus Christ?

 

Your focus on battling that book must be kept in its proper perspective.

 

Our focus should be on Jesus first, second and last.

 

And to those who feel they have been called to do battle with maxim, don't assume that that is the only work to be done in the molokan brotherhood.

 

Kevin Nazaroff

 

Kevin,

 

EVERY MOLOKAN has been subjected to the heresy in that book. If you went to a spevka class, or a Molokan Bible Class, there was theology from that evil book the Spirit & Life.

 

And, YES YES YES, Jesus Christ IS the MAIN FOCUS POINT, NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!

 

There are times when the grounds need to be cleared and the junk needs to be thrown out as well.

 

The racism comes from the S&L, the infant baptismal regeneration theology comes from the S&L, DENIAL of the deity of Jesus Christ comes from the S&L, a hint of Necromancy comes from the S&L....

 

And, Christians still go there and "blend in".

[stevepiv 0]

D a n i e l M B or NAD923,

 

More of your beliefs:

 

S&L pg. 476 Book 9 Article 25 verses 5-7

 

5. For this reason each believer of the spirit of truth must quickly and before all accept him, our Maxim as the King personified.

6. And bow down at his feet with gifts, whatever any person gives sincerely from his soul.

7. For this each will receive a blessing from him to last for ages. Amen,truth amen.

 

This is interpreted as of being on your knees in front of the presbyter, personifying or symbolizing Jesus as high priest, and asking for your offering to be accepted, which is symbolized by the bread and salt, and then a blessing from the Holy Spirit thorugh the laying-on of hands. Or even placing charity on the table, with the book Spirit and Life (symbolizing Maxim Gavrilovich sitting on the prestol - the throne), with the New Testament (symbolizing Jesus, next to him), to represent our spiritual community. No reason to make texts complex.

 

Is Jesus pleased with these words? Is He Glorified in these words? If the Lamb of God is not The Center of Attention, He's NOT THERE!!!!!

 

 

Matt. 21

 

42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

 

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

44And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

 

 

There maybe some over zealous out there, but this goes both ways,

 

but you do not know me.

 

 

 

Over the past year, I thought you guys might have matured a little.

 

I guess not.

 

Why can't we have a normal discussion?

 

Why do you keep turning me into your flogging pole?

 

Is this how your elders treated you?

 

Is that why you are upset with the molokans?

 

Then why are you doing the same thing to others now?

 

Just because I call myself a molokan, I am worthy of this kind of treatment?

 

 

By grace does it matter if I am a good person or not? As long as I have faith in Jesus, all is forgiven?

 

All the scripture and the teachings/opinions of those scholars that you guys quote,

You use to belittle the people that call themselves molokans.

 

 

I came back on to try and find out why?

 

 

I heard there is a main stream church that is going to take the S&L of the prestol.

 

Question is are you going to be there, supporting them, after they have done that?

 

Or are you all happy in your "amazing grace/bleeding hearts" churches.

 

If you are happy with were you're at, LEAVE US ALONE!

 

Explain your beliefs then.

 

Seeking_truth_1 has asked you questions that every Christian can answer without hesitation.

 

Yet, you enjoy trying to play games and act as if you are the victim in this. As if you can stir up some sympathy.

 

I would really enjoy you being upfront.

 

Why do you think you are not a good person?

 

Thanks!

[stevepiv 0]

NAD923 aka D a n i e l M B,

 

You consider yourself to be a True Molokan, what do you think of Article 1:

 

Article 1 - God

 

We believe in only one God, who exists in Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, as Apostle St. Paul said in his epistle to the Ephesians, Chapter 2, verse 20, "Built upon the foundations of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone." And Christ said in Matthew, Chapter 28, verse 19, "Going therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

 

 

[NAD923 0]

[Guest guest]

How can anybody say that they follow Jesus and say that they are saved by Jesus but at the same time say that it is ok to add Macxim to the mix and that the spirit and life goes okay with the Bible? There is no such thing as going and getting Jesus with an added bonus king Maxcim included. Do they believe that just because somebody at the head or the side of the table told them it is okay? If anyone thinks that is okay they need to study the Bible a lot more. God says something else.

[Guest Guest]

Well here you have it NAD, Maxcim offering the only blessing that can last for ages, Salvation, and note the point of origin is from Maxim himself, notice he didn't write from Christ through Maxim. This is NAD's new path toward salvation that bypasses Jesus entirely.

 

Spirit and Life page 476 verses 5-6

5. "And, for this reason every believer of the Spirit of truth must quickly and before all accept him, our Maxim, as the King personified.

6. And bow down at his feet with gifts that whatever any person sincerely gives from his soul. 7. And for this each will receive a bless

ing FROM HIM to last for ages. Amen, truth, Amen."

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Really?

 

The King personified?

 

I heard he was good at lavishing gifts upon friends...but blessings?

 

I guess a mint '55 Cadi would be pretty sweet

 

 

 

 

 

Well here you have it NAD, Maxcim offering the only blessing that can last for ages, Salvation, and note the point of origin is from Maxim himself, notice he didn't write from Christ through Maxim. This is NAD's new path toward salvation that bypasses Jesus entirely.

 

Spirit and Life page 476 verses 5-6

5. "And, for this reason every believer of the Spirit of truth must quickly and before all accept him, our Maxim, as the King personified.

6. And bow down at his feet with gifts that whatever any person sincerely gives from his soul. 7. And for this each will receive a bless

ing FROM HIM to last for ages. Amen, truth, Amen."

 

 

[Guest Guest]

NAD923, somehow I pictured you much taller.

 

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

Amen SP!

 

Either it's Sola Scriptura or it's nothing

 

As long as the s&l is ANYWHERE within the confines of a molokan "church" it will be a cult

 

Kevin, the evidence is there yet you still want to place new wine in old wineskins

 

The Bible clearly states that will not work.

You make this misguided statement, but nowhere am I preaching religion or rituals.

You can continue to make ridiculous statements, that is your choice.

But you will be held accountable for what you say, you do realize that?

And blaming you loose tongue on Jonah by saying that he was a jerk too will not work with God.

That is called blame-shifting.

 

 

I preach Christ.

 

 

16 Let no man(including seeking) therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Colossians 2:16–17 AV

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

I'm not saying you are "preaching religion or rituals"

 

What I said was VERY clear

 

As long as the s&l is ANYWHERE within the confines of a molokan "church" it will be a cult

 

I also said placing new wine in old wineskins WILL NOT work

 

If you are attempting to meld "positive" aspects of molokanism with Christianity while the s&l is still there you also will not do well

 

If you are bringing along "front row" "two bookers" into your ministry, it will not do well

 

Both are foundationally flawed

 

Abraham brought along Lot and there was trouble (Genesis 13 & 14)

Moses brought along Aaron and there was trouble (Exodus 32)

 

 

 

 

Your regular presence there within the cult of molokanism is between you and God

 

I'm not "judging" anyone regarding their observance of distinctives (food laws, holy days etc...)

 

You certainly have freedom to do those things

 

However the regular involvement in a "church" that practices racism and esteems an extra book as on par with the Bible I do and will continue to question

 

There is a BIG difference between those issues

 

 

 

 

Amen SP!

 

Either it's Sola Scriptura or it's nothing

 

As long as the s&l is ANYWHERE within the confines of a molokan "church" it will be a cult

 

Kevin, the evidence is there yet you still want to place new wine in old wineskins

 

The Bible clearly states that will not work.

You make this misguided statement, but nowhere am I preaching religion or rituals.

You can continue to make ridiculous statements, that is your choice.

But you will be held accountable for what you say, you do realize that?

And blaming you loose tongue on Jonah by saying that he was a jerk too will not work with God.

That is called blame-shifting.

 

 

I preach Christ.

 

 

16 Let no man(including seeking) therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Colossians 2:16–17 AV

 

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

I'm not saying you are "preaching religion or rituals"

 

What I said was VERY clear

 

As long as the s&l is ANYWHERE within the confines of a molokan "church" it will be a cult

 

I also said placing new wine in old wineskins WILL NOT work

 

If you are attempting to meld "positive" aspects of molokanism with Christianity while the s&l is still there you also will not do well

 

If you are bringing along "front row" "two bookers" into your ministry, it will not do well

 

Abraham brought along Lot and there was trouble (Genesis 13 & 14)

Moses brought along Aaron and there was trouble (Exodus 32)

 

 

 

 

Your regular presence there within the cult of molokanism is between you and God

 

I'm not "judging" anyone regarding their observance of distinctives (food laws, holy days etc...)

 

You certainly have freedom to do those things

 

However the regular involvement in a "church" that practices racism and esteems an extra book as on par with the Bible I do and will continue to question

 

There is a BIG difference between those issues

Ok, well maybe I misunderstood you.

I am sorry, please accept my apologies.

 

 

When I think of wine wineskin's, I think of law and rituals.

18 And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?

19 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.

20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

21 No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.

22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

Mark 2:18–22 AV

 

2:22. Bottles are wineskins, the old ones figuratively representing Judaism and the new ones, Christianity. Old wineskins lose their elasticity and would be burst open by the fermentation of new wine put into them. The point: the old faith of Judaism and the new faith of Christianity cannot be mixed, nor can the practices or traditions (e.g., the time of fasting) of Judaism be forced on Christianity. King James Version study Bible

 

 

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

We're good and no apologies necessary

 

The temptation is to mix molokanism with Christianity

 

As cited in Scripture, it will not work

 

Christianity with just a little "new israel" theology won't work

Christianity with just a little racism won't work

Christianity with just a little infant baptism won't work

Christianity with just a little prayer for the dead won't work

Christianity with just a little works based salvation won't work

Christianity with just a little "us versus not of us" won't work

 

What do you allow?

What do you remove?

 

Frankly things are so broken, I'd start over

Literally remove all aspects of molokanism that are not found in Scripture and just teach the Bible

 

Kind of a "cult turkey" approach

 

 

I'm not saying you are "preaching religion or rituals"

 

What I said was VERY clear

 

As long as the s&l is ANYWHERE within the confines of a molokan "church" it will be a cult

 

I also said placing new wine in old wineskins WILL NOT work

 

If you are attempting to meld "positive" aspects of molokanism with Christianity while the s&l is still there you also will not do well

 

If you are bringing along "front row" "two bookers" into your ministry, it will not do well

 

Abraham brought along Lot and there was trouble (Genesis 13 & 14)

Moses brought along Aaron and there was trouble (Exodus 32)

 

 

 

 

Your regular presence there within the cult of molokanism is between you and God

 

I'm not "judging" anyone regarding their observance of distinctives (food laws, holy days etc...)

 

You certainly have freedom to do those things

 

However the regular involvement in a "church" that practices racism and esteems an extra book as on par with the Bible I do and will continue to question

 

There is a BIG difference between those issues

Ok, well maybe I misunderstood you.

I am sorry, please accept my apologies.

 

 

When I think of wine wineskin's, I think of law and rituals.

18 And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?

19 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.

20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

21 No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.

22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

Mark 2:18–22 AV

 

2:22. Bottles are wineskins, the old ones figuratively representing Judaism and the new ones, Christianity. Old wineskins lose their elasticity and would be burst open by the fermentation of new wine put into them. The point: the old faith of Judaism and the new faith of Christianity cannot be mixed, nor can the practices or traditions (e.g., the time of fasting) of Judaism be forced on Christianity. King James Version study Bible

 

 

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Going though the Book of Genesis, the reference to the original vision of Jacob is found

 

10 ¶ And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran.

11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.

12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of. (Genesis 28:10-15 KJV)

 

Later in Scripture the Ladder is found and it's not ol rudi

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Here too ol' rudi makes more nutty claims