Sins Forgiven For A Price?

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Excerpt from Cyclopaedia of biblical, theological, and ecclesiastical literature, Volume 2 By James Strong

 

It would appear mgr was taking money from the people to "forgive" sins...

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Not a comment on this?

[Guest the_truth]

He was a paid minister.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Really...?

 

That's what you take away from that?

 

What was he a minister of?

 

Certainly not the Gospel

 

It would appear mgr was taking money from the people to "forgive" sins...

 

Can you show me in Scripture where man can forgive THE PENALTY of Sin by paying money?

[seeking_truth_1 0]

I'm surprised that no "two book" molokan has been able to defend the practice of being paid to "forgive sins" by their "god" mgr

 

Anyone...?

 

To the "one book" molokans, why is that book still there and/or why are you?

 

There is no excuse (at least not a Biblical one)

 

By the way, does anyone know why mgr used the alias of "komar"?

 

What does that mean?

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Never mind...

 

Looks like "mosquito"

 

A blood sucking parasite that passes disease

 

How fitting

[Guest El Scorcho Grande]

Anyone need a "hanky" It's a nice one.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Nad:

 

See what others have written about Article 23 and how Komar (mgr) took money for the "remission of sin" from the people

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

By the way, does anyone know why mgr used the alias of "komar"?

 

What does that mean?

Yes Sir, I am interested to know why.

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

After re-reading the text posted above the molokans were infiltrated by the "Duchowny" sect lead by mgr

 

Hmmm...

 

Please re-read the copy

 

 

 

This is the beginning of the fork in the road from Christianity to Cult

[coffee 0]

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By the way, does anyone know why mgr used the alias of "komar"?

 

What does that mean?

 

Yes Sir, I am interested to know why.

 

 

 

Actually, Komar was not an "alias", but was Rudometkin's real last name that he was raised with among his fellow Khlysty people, which he changed to Rudometkin after he began to infiltrate the Molokan people. Apparently this was a quite common practice among certain men in that area of the Transcausasus, when they began to be regarded as "spiritual leaders" among the peasant people. Even Bulghakov, the writer known as David Yeseyevitch in the Spirit and Life book, is known to have changed his last name.

 

There is a folklore legend that Rudometkin was called Komar as a nickname because he allegedly resembled a mosquito, with a torso that had long dangling arms and legs. However, more reliable historical sources indicate that he was a short, stout man with red hair and ruddy complexion.

 

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[Guest guest]

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By the way, does anyone know why mgr used the alias of "komar"?

 

What does that mean?

 

Yes Sir, I am interested to know why.

 

 

 

Actually, Komar was not an "alias", but was Rudometkin's real last name that he was raised with among his fellow Khlysty people, which he changed to Rudometkin after he began to infiltrate the Molokan people. Apparently this was a quite common practice among certain men in that area of the Transcausasus, when they began to be regarded as "spiritual leaders" among the peasant people. Even Bulghakov, the writer known as David Yeseyevitch in the Spirit and Life book, is known to have changed his last name.

 

There is a folklore legend that Rudometkin was called Komar as a nickname because he allegedly resembled a mosquito, with a torso that had long dangling arms and legs. However, more reliable historical sources indicate that he was a short, stout man with red hair and ruddy complexion.

 

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What was Komar's ethnicity? Komar/Rudometkin said "I am the faith of the God of the Hebrews and the God of the Tartars. page 442 verse 4, the Tartars are Mohammedans and the Spirit and Life book has some curious Islamic similarities. In the light of your information, what is he really saying? I don't understand the meaning of that verse.

[fourvetta 0]

.

 

 

By the way, does anyone know why mgr used the alias of "komar"?

 

What does that mean?

 

Yes Sir, I am interested to know why.

 

 

 

Actually, Komar was not an "alias", but was Rudometkin's real last name that he was raised with among his fellow Khlysty people, which he changed to Rudometkin after he began to infiltrate the Molokan people. Apparently this was a quite common practice among certain men in that area of the Transcausasus, when they began to be regarded as "spiritual leaders" among the peasant people. Even Bulghakov, the writer known as David Yeseyevitch in the Spirit and Life book, is known to have changed his last name.

 

There is a folklore legend that Rudometkin was called Komar as a nickname because he allegedly resembled a mosquito, with a torso that had long dangling arms and legs. However, more reliable historical sources indicate that he was a short, stout man with red hair and ruddy complexion.

 

.

 

 

Wrong on all accounts.

 

The name Rudometkin means "Blood Letter."

 

The opening of veins and the application of leaches was a common remedy for all manner of illness and disease in Old Russia.

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

That's really not the issue

 

You "god" komar was taking money from the ignorant and promising them forgiveness of sin

 

Much like your willful ignorance acknowledging komar as "Christ" and not for who he really was as a heretic headed for Hell

[fourvetta 0]

That's really not the issue

 

You "god" komar was taking money from the ignorant and promising them forgiveness of sin

 

Much like your willful ignorance acknowledging komar as "Christ" and not for who he really was as a heretic headed for Hell

 

 

Have you not read the scriptures?

 

1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,

2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,”

3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

 

4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils.

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

my little wiggle worm....

 

You are equating taking money from ignorant peasants with a promise of forgiving of sins versus tithing

 

One is a lie created by an evil man to prey on the Biblically illiterate and the other is Biblical, giving a portion of your increase as you are blessed by God

 

The practice is akin to the catholic practice of indulgences

 

Two COMPLETELY different things

[fourvetta 0]

my little wiggle worm....

 

You are equating taking money from ignorant peasants with a promise of forgiving of sins versus tithing

 

One is a lie created by an evil man to prey on the Biblically illiterate and the other is Biblical, giving a portion of your increase as you are blessed by God

 

The practice is akin to the catholic practice of indulgences

 

Two COMPLETELY different things

 

 

Abraham payed tithes to Melchizedek, because he was a High Priest of God.

 

Have you not read the scriptures of the honor due to those who are in spiritual authority?

 

1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,

 

4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.

5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.

7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

 

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

The difference is mgr was a nut not a spiritual leader

 

my little wiggle worm....

 

You are equating taking money from ignorant peasants with a promise of forgiving of sins versus tithing

 

One is a lie created by an evil man to prey on the Biblically illiterate and the other is Biblical, giving a portion of your increase as you are blessed by God

 

The practice is akin to the catholic practice of indulgences

 

Two COMPLETELY different things

 

 

Abraham payed tithes to Melchizedek, because he was a High Priest of God.

 

Have you not read the scriptures of the honor due to those who are in spiritual authority?

 

1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,

 

4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.

7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

 

 

 

[fourvetta 0]

The difference is mgr was a nut not a spiritual leader

 

As Efim said, "Take heed of the one of whom we speak, that you bring not condemnation upon yourself."

 

For Jesus Christ Himself said speaking of another;

 

26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

27 He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’

as I also have received from My Father;

 

In another place;

 

21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

 

 

As King and Priest after the order of Melchizedek.

[coffee 0]

.

 

my little wiggle worm....

 

You are equating taking money from ignorant peasants with a promise of forgiving of sins versus tithing

 

One is a lie created by an evil man to prey on the Biblically illiterate and the other is Biblical, giving a portion of your increase as you are blessed by God

 

The practice is akin to the catholic practice of indulgences

 

Two COMPLETELY different things

 

 

In his book, in which he details the account of Rudometkin's life as a "christ" over his followers in the village of Nikitino, the Russian historian Ding'lshtedt specifically uses the word "indulgences" to describe what Rudometkin was demanding from his followers, for the forgiveness of their sins. Ding'lshtedt details how Rudometkin would literally drag people by their hair in front of the congregation, damanding that they repent of their sins and offer indulgences as payment.

 

Fourvetta is ignorant of the truth, as are the most zealous of Rudometkinites, and in their efforts to salvage the reputation of their spiritual leader, the Rudometkinites try to apply excerpts from the Bible in their attempt to offer some kind of explanation for Rudometkin's kooky spiritual revelations and activities.

 

Rudometkin's demands for payment as a way for his followers to receive forgiveness of sins from him (from Rudometkin) was the practice of indulgences, just like what has historically gone on in the Russian Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches.

 

It was NOT a willful, voluntary act on the part of Rudometkin's followers to give honor to their "christ" by tithing a portion of their blessings from God and giving them to Rudometkin.

 

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[fourvetta 0]

Ding'lshtedt details how Rudometkin would literally drag people by their hair in front of the congregation, demanding that they repent of their sins and offer indulgences as payment.

 

Have you not read the scriptures, how Dathan and Abriam withstood Moses and did not honor him?

 

Neither did they give him restitution according to God's Law.

 

As is written;

 

5 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,

6 “Speak to the children of Israel: ‘When a man or woman commits any sin that men commit in unfaithfulness against the LORD, and that person is guilty,

7 then he shall confess the sin which he has committed. He shall make restitution for his trespass in full, plus one-fifth of it, and give it to the one he has wronged.

 

Neither did the Israelites obey the voice of Moses when he said;

 

20 “Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him.

22 But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.

23 For My Angel will go before you and bring you in to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites and the Hivites and the Jebusites; and I will cut them off.

 

His angel which was Joshua, who did not forgive any sin of the adversary. Joshua did not forgive Achan and his whole family including animals of any trespass against God. But the earth opened her mouth and swallowed them up and their souls cast into Hell.

 

A tiny yank on the hair before the congregation of the Lord is a small rebuke, compared to being cast alive into hell.

 

Neither did Apostle Peter forgive Ananias and Sapphira for their sin against the Holy Spirit.

 

Neither is there any forgiveness for anyone of the nations that are left after the battle of Armageddon, not coming to Jerusalem to worship the King of the Lord God Almighty in celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles. Zechariah 14

 

Also Isaiah 66;

 

23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another,

And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.

24 “ And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

 

 

 

You make light of the Holy Prophets and the Anointed of God.

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Are there an english translations of Ding'lshtedt book?

 

.

 

my little wiggle worm....

 

You are equating taking money from ignorant peasants with a promise of forgiving of sins versus tithing

 

One is a lie created by an evil man to prey on the Biblically illiterate and the other is Biblical, giving a portion of your increase as you are blessed by God

 

The practice is akin to the catholic practice of indulgences

 

Two COMPLETELY different things

 

 

In his book, in which he details the account of Rudometkin's life as a "christ" over his followers in the village of Nikitino, the Russian historian Ding'lshtedt specifically uses the word "indulgences" to describe what Rudometkin was demanding from his followers, for the forgiveness of their sins. Ding'lshtedt details how Rudometkin would literally drag people by their hair in front of the congregation, damanding that they repent of their sins and offer indulgences as payment.

 

Fourvetta is ignorant of the truth, as are the most zealous of Rudometkinites, and in their efforts to salvage the reputation of their spiritual leader, the Rudometkinites try to apply excerpts from the Bible in their attempt to offer some kind of explanation for Rudometkin's kooky spiritual revelations and activities.

 

Rudometkin's demands for payment as a way for his followers to receive forgiveness of sins from him (from Rudometkin) was the practice of indulgences, just like what has historically gone on in the Russian Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches.

 

It was NOT a willful, voluntary act on the part of Rudometkin's followers to give honor to their "christ" by tithing a portion of their blessings from God and giving them to Rudometkin.

 

.

[coffee 0]

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Are there an english translations of Ding'lshtedt book?

 

 

None that we know of, and due to time restrictions and personal schedules, our progress in translating has been extremely slow, and will continue to be so.

 

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[coffee 0]

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The name Rudometkin means "Blood Letter."

 

 

In which language, Pig Latin? Or is this in one of Rudometkin's purported "holy celestial languages"?

 

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[Guest guest]

You make light of the Holy Prophets and the Anointed of God.

I think you are referring to Rudometkin/Komar, if that is the case, then using Scripture PROVE this Molokan godly worshiped sexual predator to be Holy!

 

[Guest Guest]

Komar/Rudometkin said "I am the faith of the God of the Hebrews and the God of the Tartars. page 442 verse 4, the Tartars are Mohammedans and the Spirit and Life book has some curious Islamic similarities. In the light of your information, what is he really saying? I don't understand the meaning of that verse.

The god of the Jews, of Rudometkin/Komar, of Uklein's Molokanye, and the God of the Tartars/Muslims is a god that did not come to earth in the flesh as the Divine Son Jesus. Uklein and Rudometkin denied the Divinity of Jesus, Uklien teaches his Molokanye that Jesus was just an inferior man and the Immaculate Conception and Jesus' flesh birth never took place.

 

Historian Fredrick C. Coneybaer, page 324. "Uklein's followers went so far as to exalt the Mosaic Law above the Christian, and taught that Jesus was no more than a man born of men, a prophet indeed, but inferior to Moses."

 

Historian Fredrick C. Coneybaer, page 319, "Uklein held a more or less docetic view of Christ and taught that the Son of the Virgin did not take from her real flesh, but resembled in this matter Tobit's friend and guide, the Archangel Raphael,"

 

 

 

And today's Molokanye still deny the Divine power of Jesus' ability to forgive all their sins beit past or future, their denial is demonstrated in their prosbas week after week when asking for their sins to be forgiven.

 

 

 

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

mgr "god" of the tartars?

 

What was Komar's ethnicity? Komar/Rudometkin said "I am the faith of the God of the Hebrews and the God of the Tartars. page 442 verse 4, the Tartars are Mohammedans and the Spirit and Life book has some curious Islamic similarities. In the light of your information, what is he really saying? I don't understand the meaning of that verse.

[lastinline 0]

Guest date='Feb 3 2010, 08:19 PM' post='47612'

 

And today's Molokanye still deny the Divine power of Jesus' ability to forgive all their sins beit past or future, their denial is demonstrated in their prosbas week after week when asking for their sins to be forgiven.

 

Sadly, for some this is true. But, not all.

 

Hebrews 10:16-18 (New King James Version) 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin

 

Евреям 10: 16 Вот завет, который завещаю им после тех дней, говорит Господь: вложу законы Мои в сердца их, и в мыслях их напишу их, 17 и грехов их и беззаконий их не воспомяну более. 18 А где прощение грехов, там не нужно приношение за них.

 

lastinline (where sins are forgiven and are not remembered)