The Flesh And The Spirit

[Disciple 0]

And I am, Oh So, Still in the flesh!

 

lastinline (4 the time being)

I hope not.

 

(Disclaimer: This is not speaking of being "dead in trepasses in sin", these verses are all speaking of and to believers.)

(Disclaimer 2: Longer post, please give it a good read and let me know what you think.)

 

Sin dwells in the flesh, so to conquer the actions of sin, God had to get rid of the flesh.

 

Romans 7:16-17a

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:

 

We are crucified with Christ, buried with him, resurrected with him and seated with him in heavenly places. Therefore we should set our affections on things above.

 

Colossians 2:20 & 3:1-3

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

 

And Ephesians 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

We have been planted with Christ in death, and in that death of the flesh and of the old man, we are freed from sin.

 

Romans 6:3-8

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

 

We were in the flesh, past tense. We are delivered from, and dead to the law; because "that being dead wherein we were held." "That" is speaking of the flesh. Why so we can now serve in newness of Spirit, not in oldness of letter.

 

Romans 7:4-6

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

We believers are no longer in the flesh, we are in the Spirit. Though it may not fit our experience, we are told to believe it; to reckon it to be so. The body is dead, the old man is dead, therefore we are no longer bound to what the flesh was bound to (the law), we are now bound to that what the new man is bound to (The Spirit).

 

Romans 8:8-10

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

Ye have put off the old man, past tense.

 

Colossians 3:9-10

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

 

What does all this mean?

 

Romans 6:11-15

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

 

Conclusion:

We are dead with Christ. So to God it is real, we are told to believe it. God told Abraham, "You are the Father of many nations," it was real to God, and when Abraham believed it, God considered it righteousness.

 

Likewise, we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and were saved. Also we are to believe that we have been crucified with Christ, although I look down and still se my flesh sitting in this chair, I am to believe otherwise.

 

Why? So that I would no longer fight sin, but "let not sin reign" in my mortal body. Nor should I yield my members (hands eyes ears feet, etc) to unrighteousness; but yield my members as instruments of righteousness, just give them up to he who created them anew. If I as a believer am fighting against sin, then I am not yielding myself to God.

 

Believe what he did for you and me. You have been saved from the penalty of sin, let yourself be saved from the power of sin, and when The Lord Jesus Christ returns we will be saved from the presence of sin.

[steadfast 0]

Sin dwells in the flesh, so to conquer the actions of sin, God had to get rid of the flesh.

Lucifer and 1/3 of God's angels were not born of the bag of waters (flesh) yet God condemned them for their transgression against God's will (sin). Your opinion needs to be documented with Scripture.

[steadfast 0]

"Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."¦.. Why did God hate Esau? He did something before being born that transgressed against God's will¦.. Esau was elected to serve God and he refused. Romans 9.11 which is not in harmony with your opinion of sin dwelling in the flesh, so to conquer the actions of sin, God had to get rid of the flesh.

 

Thank You Disciple, I never read up on the Jacob and Esau caper¦.Have a good evening.....SF

[Disciple 0]

"Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."¦.. Why did God hate Esau? He did something before being born that transgressed against God's will¦.. Esau was elected to serve God and he refused. Romans 9.11 which is not in harmony with your opinion of sin dwelling in the flesh, so to conquer the actions of sin, God had to get rid of the flesh.

Thank You Disciple, I never read up on the Jacob and Esau caper¦.Have a good evening.....SF

 

Just a quick response, the full answer is coming. I just have to write it as soon as I have time.

I don't quite understand what you believe on this topic, based on your post. You disagreed with me, but didn't state what in fact is the truth if I am in error. Also, getting your response would help me to understand your thinking; and would help me to respond to you properly.

 

Thanks.

[steadfast 0]

"Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."¦.. Why did God hate Esau? He did something before being born that transgressed against God's will¦.. Esau was elected to serve God and he refused. Romans 9.11 which is not in harmony with your opinion of sin dwelling in the flesh, so to conquer the actions of sin, God had to get rid of the flesh.

Thank You Disciple, I never read up on the Jacob and Esau caper¦.Have a good evening.....SF

 

Just a quick response, the full answer is coming. I just have to write it as soon as I have time.

I don't quite understand what you believe on this topic, based on your post. You disagreed with me, but didn't state what in fact is the truth if I am in error. Also, getting your response would help me to understand your thinking; and would help me to respond to you properly.

 

Thanks.

Signs of a cultist;

 

Step 1. Blame shift to avoid answering.

Step 2. If still pursued, rant then terminate all dialogue.

[lastinline 0]

'Disciple' date='Jan 22 2009, 02:08 AM' post='16392'

 

Likewise, we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and were saved. Also we are to believe that we have been crucified with Christ, although I look down and still see my flesh sitting in this chair, I am to believe otherwise.

 

Visited a "Christian Science Reading Room" lately??

 

When does this inheritance take place?

 

1Corintians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. NKJV

 

1-е КоринфÑнам 15:50 Ðо то ÑкаРу [вам], братиÑ, что плоть и кровь не могут наÑледовать ЦарÑÑ‚Ð²Ð¸Ñ Ð‘Ð¾Ð Ð¸Ñ, и тление не наÑледует нетлениÑ.

 

lastinline (4 the time being, flesh & blood)

[Disciple 0]

"Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."¦.. Why did God hate Esau? He did something before being born that transgressed against God's will¦.. Esau was elected to serve God and he refused. Romans 9.11 which is not in harmony with your opinion of sin dwelling in the flesh, so to conquer the actions of sin, God had to get rid of the flesh.

Thank You Disciple, I never read up on the Jacob and Esau caper¦.Have a good evening.....SF

 

When I wrote that post asking you a question i re-read it several times so that it would come out as non-confrontational as possible, because I really wanted to know what you believed so that we could converse. I know your history of taking offense to questioning and such so I even put the little happy face guy so you would know I was asking a sincere question. I am sorry that I stirred you up, I really would like to continue this discussion. Maybe admin needs a bigger happy face for me to use.

 

Moving on, I'd like to answer your questions.

 

Why did God hate Esau?

The same reason God hates anyone.

 

God crushes in the face of the wicked, and breaks their teeth.

Psalm 3:7

7 Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly.

 

God hates sinners, he abhors those that worketh iniquity.

Psalm 5:4-6

4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. 6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

 

He is angry with the wicked every day, every morning he is in a bad mood towards the sinner.

Psalm 7:11-13

11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. 12 If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready. 13 He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors.

 

God's soul hates the wicked.

Psalm 11:5-6

5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. 6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

 

Now someone might say, "Esau was not yet born and was hated."

Let me answer this first.

Esau was elected to serve God and he refused.

Esau could not have been elect. If he was, he would have been justified, glorified and "predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son" as we believers are. This is referenced in Romans 8 (directly below). The word "elect" in the Old Testament was used for Israel, in the New Testament it is used for blood-bought sons of God, born-again believers in Christ Jesus. (Side Note: I am not talking replacement theology here, I know God has promises to Israel that will be fulfilled.)

Romans 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

Now I would like to answer the concern that, "Esau was not yet born and was hated."

We could apply the idea of God's election of his saints, born-again believers in Jesus. In 1 Peter (below) we are told that we were elect, not according to God's will, predestination, or his exertion of force upon us. But we are "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God ..."

 

1 Peter 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

God chose to elec us according to his foreknowlege, because we know that God is not confined by time and space.

Isaiah 46:9-10

9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

 

So God by his foreknowledge of Esau, because he is just and righteous had to hate Esau.

 

I will answer the 'angels' question in another thread.

 

Now I would like to ask you a question. I would like to know what you understand on this topic of where sin dwells in spite of Romans 7:16-17, and taking into account the rest of the verses that I posted.

 

Enjoy your afternoon.

[Disciple 0]

'Disciple' date='Jan 22 2009, 02:08 AM' post='16392'

 

Likewise, we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and were saved. Also we are to believe that we have been crucified with Christ, although I look down and still see my flesh sitting in this chair, I am to believe otherwise.

 

Visited a "Christian Science Reading Room" lately??

 

Maybe I should clarify myself. I am not saying we are floating in off neverland.

 

God has done a new thing in the life of every believer, he has created us anew. He baptised us into Christ himself, He crucified us, buried us, resurrected us, ascended us and seated us with him. That is not esoteric christian science claptrap, that is Truth according to The Word of God.

 

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. "

If our old man is dead, and we are no longer in the flesh as was shown above; whose body do we have? Whose body are we?

 

Romans 12:4-5 "For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. "

 

And again.

 

1 Corinthians 6:15 "Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. "

 

More specifically.

 

Ephesians 5:30 "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. "

 

The point is this.

 

Romans 4:17 "(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. "

Just as with Abraham, God called him the father of many nations, not having an heir. Abraham believed God and it was "imputed to him for righteousness."

 

This is the same Faith that we are called to, God calleth us dead, and that our "life is hid with Christ in God." According to my reckoning my life is in constant jeopardy, with cancer, heart disease, murderers, bombs and mack trucks at every turn. But God tells me to believe otherwise.

 

So our old man is dead. We are no longer in the flesh as it has been circumcised away with a "circumcision made without hands."

 

Because of that we are told to believe something, to know it, to reckon it. And to let not sin reign.

 

Romans 6:11-12 "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."

[steadfast 0]

Esau could not have been elect. If he was, he would have been justified, glorified and "predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son" as we believers are.

I agree with your comment because Esau never attained Election status because he (repeating) refused. He was asked, elected, selected, chosen, offered and given choice. I think my using the word "elected" added confusion, I was not referring to God's Elect.

 

Moving on; After the Elect have been justified, glorified and predestinated by God as you worded, why then would God's elect need to be brought through the flesh body? We know God does nothing in vane, why wouldn't the justified, glorified and predestinated by God go straight to Heaven?

[lastinline 0]

'Disciple' date='Jan 30 2009, 12:48 AM' post='16423'

Maybe I should clarify myself. I am not saying we are floating in off neverland.

 

God has done a new thing in the life of every believer, he has created us anew. He baptized us into Christ himself, He crucified us, buried us, resurrected us, ascended us and seated us with him. That is not esoteric christian science claptrap, that is Truth according to The Word of God.

 

Thanks for your clarification. Can I ask you if you make decisions on as you said, "Truth according to The Word of God", by using writings from the Spirit & Life?

 

lastinline (where the view is GREAT)

[Disciple 0]

Moving on; After the Elect have been justified, glorified and predestinated by God as you worded, why then would God's elect need to be brought through the flesh body? We know God does nothing in vane, why wouldn't the justified, glorified and predestinated by God go straight to Heaven?

Great question!

 

I think the answer would be an additional verse (if there was one) in Hebrews 11. It would go something like this:

 

"By faith, those who were washed in the blood of the lamb, though they walked the rest of their lives in their bodies of flesh, believed not what they saw with their eyes. But they believed God, that they were already crucified, buried resurrected and seated at the right hand of God. By their walk of faith they pleased God, and he counted it to them for righteousness as their father Abraham. They died in faith, not having received the promises in this world, but saw them afar off; having received a good report by faith."

 

The purpose, as with most things, is a life of faith in God. God did not tease Moses with the idea of the promised land, or Abraham with being the father of many nations, the point was that they believed God.

[lastinline 0]

Disciple,

 

Can you reply to my question concerning the use of the S&L for reaching definitive Truth? Thanks in advance!

 

lastinline

 

'Disciple' date='Jan 30 2009, 12:48 AM' post='16423'

Maybe I should clarify myself. I am not saying we are floating in off neverland.

 

God has done a new thing in the life of every believer, he has created us anew. He baptized us into Christ himself, He crucified us, buried us, resurrected us, ascended us and seated us with him. That is not esoteric christian science claptrap, that is Truth according to The Word of God.

 

Thanks for your clarification. Can I ask you if you make decisions on as you said, "Truth according to The Word of God", by using writings from the Spirit & Life?

 

lastinline (where the view is GREAT)

 

[steadfast 0]

Moving on; After the Elect have been justified, glorified and predestinated by God as you worded, why then would God's elect need to be brought through the flesh body? We know God does nothing in vane, why wouldn't the justified, glorified and predestinated by God go straight to Heaven?

Great question!

 

I think the answer would be an additional verse (if there was one) in Hebrews 11. It would go something like this:

 

"By faith, those who were washed in the blood of the lamb, though they walked the rest of their lives in their bodies of flesh, believed not what they saw with their eyes. But they believed God, that they were already crucified, buried resurrected and seated at the right hand of God. By their walk of faith they pleased God, and he counted it to them for righteousness as their father Abraham. They died in faith, not having received the promises in this world, but saw them afar off; having received a good report by faith."

 

The purpose, as with most things, is a life of faith in God. God did not tease Moses with the idea of the promised land, or Abraham with being the father of many nations, the point was that they believed God.

The Elect are predestined to do what? The Elect are overseers; .."Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son." (Acts 20.28 RSV)

 

And the Elect are to testify…. Luke 12:8-12 Confess Christ Before Men

 

8 "Also I say to you, whoever confesses Me before men, him the Son of Man also will confess before the angels of God.

9 But he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

10 "And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.

11 "Now when they bring you to the synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how or what you should answer, or what you should say.

12 For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

NKJV

 

And the Elect will be rewarded. ….The Elect will not bypass the Great White Throne Judgment because it is also a time of reward. Though the Spirit and Life Book teaches that event has now passed........

 

BTW, A question that I've been itching to ask someone, I'm sure you have someone close to you that you can ask and get back to us with an answer….The Spirit and Life book teaches the Rudometkin's Nikitino Millennium began while he was in prison during the late 1800's, so then why all the pahot prophesies in the America Molokan Churches, why did the Holy Spirit send the Jumper Leapers to Brazil, Australia, Mexico, Egypt, New Zealand, Iran, etc. etc. etc.….to Los Angeles then away from Los Angeles?........Molokanism is not Christianity..SF

 

 

 

 

 

[Disciple 0]

I'd like to clear out these questions and get this topic TTT.

 

Disciple,

 

Can you reply to my question concerning the use of the S&L for reaching definitive Truth? Thanks in advance!

 

lastinline

Already answered Here.

 

The Elect are predestined to do what? The Elect are overseers; .."Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son." (Acts 20.28 RSV)

 

And the Elect are to testify…. Luke 12:8-12 Confess Christ Before Men

 

8 "Also I say to you, whoever confesses Me before men, him the Son of Man also will confess before the angels of God.

9 But he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

10 "And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.

11 "Now when they bring you to the synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how or what you should answer, or what you should say.

12 For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

NKJV

There is a Response, sort of, Here.

And the Elect will be rewarded. ….The Elect will not bypass the Great White Throne Judgment because it is also a time of reward. Though the Spirit and Life Book teaches that event has now passed........

Amen! Semi-Off topic, but True nonetheless.

BTW, A question that I've been itching to ask someone, I'm sure you have someone close to you that you can ask and get back to us with an answer….The Spirit and Life book teaches the Rudometkin's Nikitino Millennium began while he was in prison during the late 1800's, so then why all the pahot prophesies in the America Molokan Churches, why did the Holy Spirit send the Jumper Leapers to Brazil, Australia, Mexico, Egypt, New Zealand, Iran, etc. etc. etc.….to Los Angeles then away from Los Angeles?........Molokanism is not Christianity..SF

Good question. Again another thread might suffice, but if I get a chance I will ask the question.

 

Now back to our regularily scheduled topic.