Absolutes - Are You Willing To Speak Out Despite The Cost

Disciple · September 8, 2009

People were sent off hungry spiritually and physically. This cannot be disputed.

And this also happened in many of the other 1000's of gatherings (churches) in the state of California.

Did it really make you feel a little better to say that? It made that twinge of guilt just sort of go away, huh?

"Whew! We aren't the only ones whose eldership, for the most part, are unchristian heretics leading our congregation to hell. It makes me all warm and fuzzy."

I don't have guilt about my statement. It's just the truth.

I understand that, but my point is this. The molokan church is 'our' church, specifically for those who still actively attend. If we take the historical molokan view (in the last 50 years or so) and say, "Oh well, all the churches are just as bad as ours;" we are not just lost, but hopelessly lost.

That means we can't even truly see our own faults. "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" 2 Corinthians 13:5

This is first and foremost personal, so that we would know if we are in fact in Christ, and therefore saved. But this should also be applied to our churches at a corporate level. We should not be afraid to examine our own selves as a whole to see if we are, in fact, in the faith.

And when we are not, and we know so, let us not turn a blind eye; But let us stand up and proclaim the truth. More so, when many know this to be true in the church, but are afraid to take a stand for the sake of personal or family persecution; And one stands up to proclaim the truth that you know to be The Truth in your soul and spirit, stand with him. Testify to the things he preaches for the salvation of the lost.

The gospel is most effectively ministered on a personal level. But the most effective preaching, the preaching that may cut to the heart of a man is shown in Scripture to be done by a spirit filled preacher delivering the Word of God. Ezra upon the pulpit delivering the law to the children of Israel had his helpers ministering the words he preached so that they could understand. Peter at the day of Pentecost had those that were with him.

But alas Stephen in the temple, although his preaching cut his hearers to the heart, there were none courageous enough around him to minister what he preached. His hearers rejected the gospel, took him out and stoned him to death. Oh what a legacy is left behind by those who witness the gospel! Not only those who are accepted, but more so those whom are rejected by the very ones who need to hear it the most.

When you oh true spiritual christian molokan hear directly, or hear of someone preaching the gospel in spirit and in truth. Stand with him, personally and when speaking with others about it. "In the mouth of two or three witnesses a thing will be established." Be a witness for Jesus Christ as he commanded you and me and all of his disciples to be (read Acts 1). Witness the work he did in your life and what he can do in the lives of the lost.

Your gift may not be to stand in the presence of many. But when that one stands bold for the testimony of Jesus Christ, stand with him share in the ministry of the gospel. Let us let the molokan world know what The Lord Jesus Christ has done!

a disciple

KevinPolyaNazaroff · September 9, 2009

The molokan church is 'our' church, specifically for those who still actively attend.

What do you mean by "our".

I struggle with the details of where current "molokansism" falls into place, but I no longer consider it "our" church. I am a part of something bigger.

Until the core tenets of biblical Christianity are adhered to and followed, taught and preached, how can we claim that as "ours"?

So we must first define the tenets of the faith. The uncompromising truths that will not change in this age or the next.

This is what I believe are the top five.

1. Jesus is a member of the Trinity of God.

2. Jesus was God Incarnate.

3. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary.

4. Jesus died on Calvary and was resurrected the third day.

5. Jesus will return to this earth(etc.)

and also

42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Acts 2:42 NASB

I am wondering if any of our ministers would be willing to affirm or reject these five tenets and the biblical application as in Acts 2:42.

And if we affirm them, and they are "core" tenets, than shouldn't they be heard on a regular, consistent basis? If even just one is missing, is that not "missing the mark"?

Stay and fight?

Or run like there is no tomorrow.

What do you think?

Kevin Nazaroff

People were sent off hungry spiritually and physically. This cannot be disputed.

And this also happened in many of the other 1000's of gatherings (churches) in the state of California.

Did it really make you feel a little better to say that? It made that twinge of guilt just sort of go away, huh?

"Whew! We aren't the only ones whose eldership, for the most part, are unchristian heretics leading our congregation to hell. It makes me all warm and fuzzy."

I don't have guilt about my statement. It's just the truth.

I understand that, but my point is this. The molokan church is 'our' church, specifically for those who still actively attend. If we take the historical molokan view (in the last 50 years or so) and say, "Oh well, all the churches are just as bad as ours;" we are not just lost, but hopelessly lost.

That means we can't even truly see our own faults. "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" 2 Corinthians 13:5

This is first and foremost personal, so that we would know if we are in fact in Christ, and therefore saved. But this should also be applied to our churches at a corporate level. We should not be afraid to examine our own selves as a whole to see if we are, in fact, in the faith.

And when we are not, and we know so, let us not turn a blind eye; But let us stand up and proclaim the truth. More so, when many know this to be true in the church, but are afraid to take a stand for the sake of personal or family persecution; And one stands up to proclaim the truth that you know to be The Truth in your soul and spirit, stand with him. Testify to the things he preaches for the salvation of the lost.

The gospel is most effectively ministered on a personal level. But the most effective preaching, the preaching that may cut to the heart of a man is shown in Scripture to be done by a spirit filled preacher delivering the Word of God. Ezra upon the pulpit delivering the law to the children of Israel had his helpers ministering the words he preached so that they could understand. Peter at the day of Pentecost had those that were with him.

But alas Stephen in the temple, although his preaching cut his hearers to the heart, there were none courageous enough around him to minister what he preached. His hearers rejected the gospel, took him out and stoned him to death. Oh what a legacy is left behind by those who witness the gospel! Not only those who are accepted, but more so those whom are rejected by the very ones who need to hear it the most.

When you oh true spiritual christian molokan hear directly, or hear of someone preaching the gospel in spirit and in truth. Stand with him, personally and when speaking with others about it. "In the mouth of two or three witnesses a thing will be established." Be a witness for Jesus Christ as he commanded you and me and all of his disciples to be (read Acts 1). Witness the work he did in your life and what he can do in the lives of the lost.

Your gift may not be to stand in the presence of many. But when that one stands bold for the testimony of Jesus Christ, stand with him share in the ministry of the gospel. Let us let the molokan world know what The Lord Jesus Christ has done!

a disciple

KevinPolyaNazaroff · September 9, 2009

Stay and fight?
Or run like there is no tomorrow.

Here is a short (less than ten minutes) sermon that captures the heart of the issue=

RUN

Kevin Nazaroff

stevepiv · September 9, 2009

Stay and fight?
Or run like there is no tomorrow.

Here is a short (less than ten minutes) sermon that captures the heart of the issue=

RUN

Kevin Nazaroff

Very convicting sermon.

Thanks for sharing Kevin.

TimEfseaff · September 9, 2009

The molokan church is 'our' church, specifically for those who still actively attend.

What do you mean by "our".

I struggle with the details of where current "molokansism" falls into place, but I no longer consider it "our" church. I am a part of something bigger.

I'm going to have to agree with this one.

Molokan is "our" heritage, our historical community. A group of people, of whom we share historical ethnic (Russian, Armenian, Ukrainian, etc.), religious, and family history, that reaches back for a couple hundred years. Many, many people in the world have similar communities, with religious backgrounds. This does not make a church.

My church is the Christian church. Where God is head, and I follow Christ Jesus, in Spirit & in truth.

I will not be held accountable to any pattern of worship, or historical practice - just because my ancestors did it (which I do not believe that my Russian molokan ancestors held worship service in the same manner that the modern molokan church does).

One's church, is where one is. Where one gathers with other believers, for worship, there is church. Where you practice what is taught to you in Scripture, there is religion.

coffee · September 9, 2009

.

The molokan church is 'our' church, specifically for those who still actively attend.

What do you mean by "our".

I struggle with the details of where current "molokansism" falls into place, but I no longer consider it "our" church. I am a part of something bigger.

I'm going to have to agree with this one.

Molokan is "our" heritage, our historical community. A group of people, of whom we share historical ethnic (Russian, Armenian, Ukrainian, etc.), religious, and family history, that reaches back for a couple hundred years. Many, many people in the world have similar communities, with religious backgrounds. This does not make a church.

My church is the Christian church. Where God is head, and I follow Christ Jesus, in Spirit & in truth.

I will not be held accountable to any pattern of worship, or historical practice - just because my ancestors did it (which I do not believe that my Russian molokan ancestors held worship service in the same manner that the modern molokan church does).

One's church, is where one is. Where one gathers with other believers, for worship, there is church. Where you practice what is taught to you in Scripture, there is religion.

Thankfully, it appears that more and more people are now "getting" it, with the realization that what began as an ethnic heritage, specifically "our people", has somehow over the years here in America, been morphed into "our church", with the resulting idolatry of language and dress, the infatuation with jumping and spiritual activity OVER the preaching of the written Scriptures, not to mention the "demand" from the political elders and church leaders that the heresy of the Spirit and Life book be "required" as part of "accepted" worship theology, and the ever increasing underlying "tone" that somewhere along the way, we have been given an obligation by God to perpetuate all of this, first and formost, above and beyond anything else.

In this war for souls, as it pertains to our Molokan community, there are 3 absolutes (there are probably more that can be itemized, but the following three are a MUST):

1) What has been recorded in the Bible is the ultimate truth which comes from the very mind and mouth of God, and He has intervened to make sure that His Words have been preserved and written down so that everyone on the face of the earth, no matter which native language one speaks, no matter which family and ethnic heritage one has been born into, has the same revelation from the Lord, by which humanity is able to know about the Creator, about His expectation of mankind, and how there is only one way for sinful man to have a right relationship with a Holy God.

2) There is only One Savior, specific and without compromise, Who is able to save mankind from being eternally separated from the Lord, and that person is God, Who came down from heaven to become the real, historical, physical human being known as Jesus of Nazareth, when God became human flesh.

3) The writings in the Spirit and Life book are heresy against the Holy Scriptures, and Rudometkin's Khlystical, Gnostic ramblings in that book, as well as Klubnikin's "spiritually inspired" writings and illustrations, are evil in the sight of God.

From disciple in Post # 13:

But let us stand up and proclaim the truth. More so, when many know this to be true in the church, but are afraid to take a stand for the sake of personal or family persecution; And one stands up to proclaim the truth that you know to be The Truth in your soul and spirit, stand with him. Testify to the things he preaches for the salvation of the lost.

When you oh true spiritual christian molokan hear directly, or hear of someone preaching the gospel in spirit and in truth. Stand with him, personally and when speaking with others about it. "In the mouth of two or three witnesses a thing will be established." Be a witness for Jesus Christ as he commanded you and me and all of his disciples to be (read Acts 1). Witness the work he did in your life and what he can do in the lives of the lost.

Your gift may not be to stand in the presence of many. But when that one stands bold for the testimony of Jesus Christ, stand with him share in the ministry of the gospel. Let us let the molokan world know what The Lord Jesus Christ has done!

In my experience, even the Rudometkinites will nod in approval and applaud the efforts of young people who desire to share in "the ministry of the gospel", whenever one stands to deliver a message about salvation and eternal life, or to "let the Molokan world" know what the Lord Jesus Christ has done. This is not difficult to do, even in the most zealous and orthodox of Rudometkinite churches, and one would not receive much resistance, if any, whenever given the opportunity to do so.

The REAL "war" is to openly identify and specify the true, Biblical Jesus, and to publicly denounce Rudometkin's heresies in the Spirit and Life book. To stand and preach about salvation and eternal life among our American "Molokans" without addressing the 3 absolutes together as one, is to avoid entering the very battle of this "war" that is being fought for the souls of the lost among our "Molokan people".

My wife and I have been "ministering" in this way to our "Molokan" community for over 25 years now, and through the years, we have been criticized for our ministry. From time to time, my wife has asked a tough question, which always makes others squirm, and hem and haw, but it truly puts things into perspective:

How much do you REALLY love the lost souls of our beloved "Molokan people"? Are you willing to go to war for and lay down your life, your social standing, your "acceptance" among family and friends in the churches, as well as in the social community, in order that someone who is lost might come out of deception to know the REAL, true, Jesus Christ of the Scriptures, and enter an intimate relationship with our Creator God both now and into eternity, when this life on earth ends and all of the saints in Christ Jesus will live eternally with Him in His Kingdom of Heaven?

As it applies to those in the following category:

The molokan church is 'our' church, specifically for those who still actively attend.

Does anyone REALLY love the lost souls of our "Molokan people" enough to go to war for them?

.

seeking_truth_1 · September 9, 2009

1 Now some of the elders of Israel came to me and sat before me.

2 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

3 "Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their hearts, and put before them that which causes them to stumble into iniquity. Should I let Myself be inquired of at all by them?

4 "Therefore speak to them, and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Everyone of the house of Israel who sets up his idols in his heart, and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, and then comes to the prophet, I the LORD will answer him who comes, according to the multitude of his idols,

5 that I may seize the house of Israel by their heart, because they are all estranged from Me by their idols."'

6 "Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Repent, turn away from your idols, and turn your faces away from all your abominations.

7 For anyone of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who separates himself from Me and sets up his idols in his heart and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, then comes to a prophet to inquire of him concerning Me, I the LORD will answer him by Myself.

8 I will set My face against that man and make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of My people. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.

(Ezekiel 14:1-8 NKJV)

stevepiv · September 10, 2009

1 Now some of the elders of Israel came to me and sat before me.
2 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

3 "Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their hearts, and put before them that which causes them to stumble into iniquity. Should I let Myself be inquired of at all by them?

4 "Therefore speak to them, and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Everyone of the house of Israel who sets up his idols in his heart, and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, and then comes to the prophet, I the LORD will answer him who comes, according to the multitude of his idols,

5 that I may seize the house of Israel by their heart, because they are all estranged from Me by their idols."'

6 "Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Repent, turn away from your idols, and turn your faces away from all your abominations.

7 For anyone of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who separates himself from Me and sets up his idols in his heart and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, then comes to a prophet to inquire of him concerning Me, I the LORD will answer him by Myself.

8 I will set My face against that man and make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of My people. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.

(Ezekiel 14:1-8 NKJV)

Dr. J. Vernon McGee's study was on this exact Scripture today. Thanks for posting it!

Click Here to Listen or Download

stevepiv · September 10, 2009

Here is the 2nd part of the Chapter, it's interesting how the prophecy mentions Noah, Dan-iel and Job.

9 " 'And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy, I the LORD have enticed that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel. 10 They will bear their guilt—the prophet will be as guilty as the one who consults him. 11 Then the people of Israel will no longer stray from me, nor will they defile themselves anymore with all their sins. They will be my people, and I will be their God, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "

Judgment Inescapable

12 The word of the LORD came to me: 13 "Son of man, if a country sins against me by being unfaithful and I stretch out my hand against it to cut off its food supply and send famine upon it and kill its men and their animals, 14 even if these three men—Noah, Dan-iel and Job—were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign LORD.

15 "Or if I send wild beasts through that country and they leave it childless and it becomes desolate so that no one can pass through it because of the beasts, 16 as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, even if these three men were in it, they could not save their own sons or daughters. They alone would be saved, but the land would be desolate.

17 "Or if I bring a sword against that country and say, 'Let the sword pass throughout the land,' and I kill its men and their animals, 18 as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, even if these three men were in it, they could not save their own sons or daughters. They alone would be saved.

19 "Or if I send a plague into that land and pour out my wrath upon it through bloodshed, killing its men and their animals, 20 as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, even if Noah, Dan-iel and Job were in it, they could save neither son nor daughter. They would save only themselves by their righteousness.

21 "For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments—sword and famine and wild beasts and plague—to kill its men and their animals! 22 Yet there will be some survivors—sons and daughters who will be brought out of it. They will come to you, and when you see their conduct and their actions, you will be consoled regarding the disaster I have brought upon Jerusalem—every disaster I have brought upon it. 23 You will be consoled when you see their conduct and their actions, for you will know that I have done nothing in it without cause, declares the Sovereign LORD."

Edited September 10, 2009 by stevepiv

Disciple · September 10, 2009

Side note, the word church in the bible is used as the overall body of believers, and also for a localized gathering. Romans 16:15, 1 Corinthians 16:19, Colossians 4:15, Philemon 1:2.

Tim and Kevin, you are not being honest. I have not yet heard that you two and your familes has left the molokan church and joined another. If you have not, then you are still joined to it and as believers, you share in the responsibility for what goes on therein. That is the point of my above post, you can't say that you have no part in nor responsibility for the molokan people. As believers, you do.

In my experience, even the Rudometkinites will nod in approval and applaud the efforts of young people who desire to share in "the ministry of the gospel", whenever one stands to deliver a message about salvation and eternal life, or to "let the Molokan world" know what the Lord Jesus Christ has done. This is not difficult to do, even in the most zealous and orthodox of Rudometkinite churches, and one would not receive much resistance, if any, whenever given the opportunity to do so.

As a current attendee of molokan churches, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. The things you are saying are not true of the majority of molokan churches I attend. The messge of the cross is poison to those preaching another gospel. It is the working of the gospel in truth that saved me from sin, and is delivering me from unrighteousness and correcting my doctrine. When one stands up and delivers a biblical message in an understandable language, they are not applauded by those you mention above. For the most part they are scoffed at, and often silenced in the church meeting as a whole.

When the gospel is applied to the person, to show them their sin to convict them of their imminent damnation to hell, it is not recevied well. "Strive toward God," "Don't Doubt," "Stand firm in the faith of your fathers;" those sayings are recieved well. Nice vague statements with little or no explanation of sin or the cross or hellfire or the true inner workings of the Holy Spirit; are commonplace.

When the true, heart cutting, soul searching, 'uncomfortable to sinners' gospel is preached by a man on fire for Christ; it is effectual. Then, when other men of God minister that gospel to the hearers, it changes lives. It brings men to the savior in brokeness, bringing all the glory to God The Father, in His Beloved Son Jesus Christ.

Does anyone REALLY love the lost souls of our "Molokan people" enough to go to war for them?

Yes. God is calling them. By the will of God, for His glory, and if He so wills it; Yes.

coffee · September 10, 2009

.

In my experience, even the Rudometkinites will nod in approval and applaud the efforts of young people who desire to share in "the ministry of the gospel", whenever one stands to deliver a message about salvation and eternal life, or to "let the Molokan world" know what the Lord Jesus Christ has done. This is not difficult to do, even in the most zealous and orthodox of Rudometkinite churches, and one would not receive much resistance, if any, whenever given the opportunity to do so.

As a current attendee of molokan churches, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. The things you are saying are not true of the majority of molokan churches I attend. The messge of the cross is poison to those preaching another gospel. It is the working of the gospel in truth that saved me from sin, and is delivering me from unrighteousness and correcting my doctrine. When one stands up and delivers a biblical message in an understandable language, they are not applauded by those you mention above. For the most part they are scoffed at, and often silenced in the church meeting as a whole.

Admittedly, since my wife and I have not actively participated in the "Molokan" church life now for almost 20 years, I am not always "in the loop" about the current "flow" of things in our present day American "Molokan" churches, so I must rely on what others share with me. As a current attendee of our "Molokan churches", you obviously are better qualified to give an accurate and up-to-date report than I am.

That is why I always try to qualify my statements with "in my experience", which I did in this instance.

I speak of a time when the Rudometkinites DID indeed tolerate the gospel message from the Bible based Jesus followers, as long as they had the opportunity later to get the church services jumping with their love of what I refer to as Khlystical Rock and Roll.

I witnessed this personally when my wife and I were members of the "Molokan" church-going community, and my comments are based on THAT prior experience, more so than the current conditions within the churches.

Regarding:

Side note, the word church in the bible is used as the overall body of believers, and also for a localized gathering. Romans 16:15, 1 Corinthians 16:19, Colossians 4:15, Philemon 1:2.

In context, this is in reference to "believers", which is the operative word. Please do not "mix" the term and then attempt to apply it to our "Molokan people", as if it is one and the same thing. We are a social people who share a common ethnic heritage, but with such diverse religious beliefs that it is shameful whenever anyone tries to equate our common ethnicity with the impression that we are somehow one united "church", or attempts to equate our present day circumstances with those who are being referred to in the Scriptures that you quoted.

What I get from Kevin's and Timofay's comments is that in the context of "religion", they do not consider themselves to be part of the same "church" that the Rudometkinites have come to dominate, but they are social participants only. By their comments however, it is obvious that they are part of Christ's church, which is bigger and more far reaching than the idolatry and infatuation with one's own ethnic heritage.

.

steadfast · September 11, 2009

Why would any "christian" organization allow the s&l to be sold in the Library / Bookstore?
Would you allow your kids to play with a Ouiji board?

It's not a innocent activity just like accepting the s&l as anything else other than from the Pit of Hell

Behind EVERY idol is a demon and you should have nothing to do with such idolatry

The extra book, the language, ceremony, ethic "purity", dress, style of worship etc...have ALL become idols

These idols are more important than the Truth

This is to those who know the Truth , yet continue to fellowship with those who are liars and deceivers

You are fellowshipping with idolaters and their masters (demons)

There has been subtle compromise for decades and now the debt is coming due

Comfort zone seed planting from the table of demons, is it really about loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength or about loving self ?

Mark 12:29-31

29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.

31 And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

NKJV

KevinPolyaNazaroff · September 12, 2009

So did you watch the sermon I posted above?

What did you think? Just curious.

Tim and Kevin, you are not being honest.

Maybe you disagree with myself or Tim, but either way, the point is that we would all come to reality about -

A. Who is Jesus Christ. and B. What is my current status in my relationship with Jesus Christ.

9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. Ro 14:9 NASB

And it is very clear that many in the molokan brotherhood do not have a clue who Jesus is and do not care to find out.

I have not yet heard that you two and your familes has left the molokan church and joined another.

I joined the church of Jesus Christ last February 2008. I was not looking for anything at that time outside of the molokan brotherhood. I was perfectly fine attending molokan gatherings and had no intentions of anything more than that. But God has changed my heart about many things.

I consider everything that I was striving for, in the world and in the molokan brotherhood, as "dung" compared to the relationship I now have with Jesus Christ.

It was all selfish, and it was all about me. I was looking out for the big #1.(me, myself and I)

So as far as a local gathering, I am currently attending Northpointe church on wednesday evenings. It is a Celebrate Recovery meeting that combines worship, preaching and teaching, and self examination. I also pick up men from the Fresno Rescue Mission and take them to and drop them back off at the mission. They can not drive, as they are in a strict 12 month program and are not allowed to go out of the mission by themselves. On Thursday evenings, I am attending a "step study" at Notrhpointe as an extension of my graduation from Pure Life Ministries "overcomers at home program". This step study is like a bible class on steroids. Although I do not fully agree with Rick Warren and all of his theology, the differences are minor. I have met many christian friends who I consider brothers. They are all very dear to me and have a special place in my heart.

I do not know where I will be tomorrow, but I do see that I never want to live out the christian life as a slave in the chains of religion. I would rather die. I know how heavy the burden of religious pride is and never want to carry that burden again. I will never make a rash decision on major areas of my or my families lives without much prayer, the Lords clear direction, and the agreement of my wife.

I hope this clears up any dishonesty I had earlier.

Kevin Nazaroff

Side note, the word church in the bible is used as the overall body of believers, and also for a localized gathering. Romans 16:15, 1 Corinthians 16:19, Colossians 4:15, Philemon 1:2.

Tim and Kevin, you are not being honest. I have not yet heard that you two and your familes has left the molokan church and joined another. If you have not, then you are still joined to it and as believers, you share in the responsibility for what goes on therein. That is the point of my above post, you can't say that you have no part in nor responsibility for the molokan people. As believers, you do.

In my experience, even the Rudometkinites will nod in approval and applaud the efforts of young people who desire to share in "the ministry of the gospel", whenever one stands to deliver a message about salvation and eternal life, or to "let the Molokan world" know what the Lord Jesus Christ has done. This is not difficult to do, even in the most zealous and orthodox of Rudometkinite churches, and one would not receive much resistance, if any, whenever given the opportunity to do so.

As a current attendee of molokan churches, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. The things you are saying are not true of the majority of molokan churches I attend. The messge of the cross is poison to those preaching another gospel. It is the working of the gospel in truth that saved me from sin, and is delivering me from unrighteousness and correcting my doctrine. When one stands up and delivers a biblical message in an understandable language, they are not applauded by those you mention above. For the most part they are scoffed at, and often silenced in the church meeting as a whole.

When the gospel is applied to the person, to show them their sin to convict them of their imminent damnation to hell, it is not recevied well. "Strive toward God," "Don't Doubt," "Stand firm in the faith of your fathers;" those sayings are recieved well. Nice vague statements with little or no explanation of sin or the cross or hellfire or the true inner workings of the Holy Spirit; are commonplace.

When the true, heart cutting, soul searching, 'uncomfortable to sinners' gospel is preached by a man on fire for Christ; it is effectual. Then, when other men of God minister that gospel to the hearers, it changes lives. It brings men to the savior in brokeness, bringing all the glory to God The Father, in His Beloved Son Jesus Christ.

Does anyone REALLY love the lost souls of our "Molokan people" enough to go to war for them?

Yes. God is calling them. By the will of God, for His glory, and if He so wills it; Yes.

seeking_truth_1 · September 13, 2009

Getting honest requires having a true understanding what your were "born into" has become a cult

You will take heat for your stance

However, there are people praying for you who actually know the Truth and have a relationship with the Lord wh know our prayers heard

GoodDay · September 13, 2009

Welcome to the One and Only True Church of Jesus Christ Kevin!

God Bless you for being obediant to His call and that you are giving your life over to Him and to your family and to the others that you are Blessing by assisting with means you are capable of and in this your helping others in thier walk as you and them biuld up the Kingdom of God together!

Paul Orloff

So did you watch the sermon I posted above?
What did you think? Just curious.

Tim and Kevin, you are not being honest.

Maybe you disagree with myself or Tim, but either way, the point is that we would all come to reality about -

A. Who is Jesus Christ. and B. What is my current status in my relationship with Jesus Christ.

9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. Ro 14:9 NASB

And it is very clear that many in the molokan brotherhood do not have a clue who Jesus is and do not care to find out.

I have not yet heard that you two and your familes has left the molokan church and joined another.

I joined the church of Jesus Christ last February 2008. I was not looking for anything at that time outside of the molokan brotherhood. I was perfectly fine attending molokan gatherings and had no intentions of anything more than that. But God has changed my heart about many things.

I consider everything that I was striving for, in the world and in the molokan brotherhood, as "dung" compared to the relationship I now have with Jesus Christ.

It was all selfish, and it was all about me. I was looking out for the big #1.(me, myself and I)

So as far as a local gathering, I am currently attending Northpointe church on wednesday evenings. It is a Celebrate Recovery meeting that combines worship, preaching and teaching, and self examination. I also pick up men from the Fresno Rescue Mission and take them to and drop them back off at the mission. They can not drive, as they are in a strict 12 month program and are not allowed to go out of the mission by themselves. On Thursday evenings, I am attending a "step study" at Notrhpointe as an extension of my graduation from Pure Life Ministries "overcomers at home program". This step study is like a bible class on steroids. Although I do not fully agree with Rick Warren and all of his theology, the differences are minor. I have met many christian friends who I consider brothers. They are all very dear to me and have a special place in my heart.

I do not know where I will be tomorrow, but I do see that I never want to live out the christian life as a slave in the chains of religion. I would rather die. I know how heavy the burden of religious pride is and never want to carry that burden again. I will never make a rash decision on major areas of my or my families lives without much prayer, the Lords clear direction, and the agreement of my wife.

I hope this clears up any dishonesty I had earlier.

Kevin Nazaroff

Side note, the word church in the bible is used as the overall body of believers, and also for a localized gathering. Romans 16:15, 1 Corinthians 16:19, Colossians 4:15, Philemon 1:2.

Tim and Kevin, you are not being honest. I have not yet heard that you two and your familes has left the molokan church and joined another. If you have not, then you are still joined to it and as believers, you share in the responsibility for what goes on therein. That is the point of my above post, you can't say that you have no part in nor responsibility for the molokan people. As believers, you do.

In my experience, even the Rudometkinites will nod in approval and applaud the efforts of young people who desire to share in "the ministry of the gospel", whenever one stands to deliver a message about salvation and eternal life, or to "let the Molokan world" know what the Lord Jesus Christ has done. This is not difficult to do, even in the most zealous and orthodox of Rudometkinite churches, and one would not receive much resistance, if any, whenever given the opportunity to do so.

As a current attendee of molokan churches, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. The things you are saying are not true of the majority of molokan churches I attend. The messge of the cross is poison to those preaching another gospel. It is the working of the gospel in truth that saved me from sin, and is delivering me from unrighteousness and correcting my doctrine. When one stands up and delivers a biblical message in an understandable language, they are not applauded by those you mention above. For the most part they are scoffed at, and often silenced in the church meeting as a whole.

When the gospel is applied to the person, to show them their sin to convict them of their imminent damnation to hell, it is not recevied well. "Strive toward God," "Don't Doubt," "Stand firm in the faith of your fathers;" those sayings are recieved well. Nice vague statements with little or no explanation of sin or the cross or hellfire or the true inner workings of the Holy Spirit; are commonplace.

When the true, heart cutting, soul searching, 'uncomfortable to sinners' gospel is preached by a man on fire for Christ; it is effectual. Then, when other men of God minister that gospel to the hearers, it changes lives. It brings men to the savior in brokeness, bringing all the glory to God The Father, in His Beloved Son Jesus Christ.

Does anyone REALLY love the lost souls of our "Molokan people" enough to go to war for them?

Yes. God is calling them. By the will of God, for His glory, and if He so wills it; Yes.

KevinPolyaNazaroff · September 14, 2009

I have never personally heard any of what you brought up. Maybe in the past, but I just can't say for sure.

A good friend of mine works for the Southern Baptist Convention here in Fresno. He mentioned that Northpointe is a member of the convention. So that will give you an idea of where they are theologically.

If you are ever interested, I would love to meet you there on either Wednesday nights or Saturday nights.

Then we can discuss their sermons further...

Kevin Nazaroff

My post is about testing your church, we've all heard horror stories about some of the things churches can teach. Seeking still insists he is going to be raptured up into heaven on his new path to salvation, the path that Jesus has never taught to the Apostles in Mark and Revelation's John of Patmos or the OT Prophets didn't write about. At this rapture event Seeking will meet with the Molokan New Israelites I'm sure. His church can safely teach the mainstream accepted theology that Adam and Eve were the first humans on the earth, and some where in Seeking's church you may find an apple hanging in the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. His church won't teach that Cain and Able were twins, because Eve continued in labor, according to the manuscripts, etc, etc, etc. etc.

Seeking calls people hypocrites for attending a pomnenki.

Your participation screams the same question. What exactly does it take? Would you leave if they invoked the name of satan? How about allah? OR Would you stay for the meal to catch up with old friends? you, sir, are a hypocrite.

then attends a pomnenki catching up with and comforting old friends or family, from the Fellowship with Idolatry thread, Anonymous Discussion

And the last time you personally witnessed this was.................

A week ago…(At a pomnenki)
The extra book was still there

The entire service was in russian

All were dressed like 19th century peasants

They "prayed" the dead into "heaven" later on that day

All those who didn't "look the part" were set off to the side

Kevin, If North Point has some bad theology, I would have to hear that with my own ears. Personally speaking, for the time being I believe there is a miscommunication and I'm not going to play policeman. I know the Molokan North Point attendees, and they are sharper than that, and they would not fall for any nonsense a second time now would they? Just because it happened in David Koresche's Branch Davidian group, and a few Kerman oddball churches, does that mean it could happen in Fresno too, or is Fresno exempt from Satan's delusions, no of course not. Satan's delusions can't possibly happen twice to the same person, or can they?

steadfast · September 14, 2009

If you are ever interested, I would love to meet you there on either Wednesday nights or Saturday nights.
Then we can discuss their sermons further...

Kevin Nazaroff

Sir, Thank You for that invitation, I will be in touch....SF

KevinPolyaNazaroff · September 18, 2009

Side note, the word church in the bible is used as the overall body of believers, and also for a localized gathering. Romans 16:15, 1 Corinthians 16:19, Colossians 4:15, Philemon 1:2.

--- and Kevin, you are not being honest. I have not yet heard that you two and your familes has left the molokan church and joined another. If you have not, then you are still joined to it and as believers, you share in the responsibility for what goes on therein. That is the point of my above post, you can't say that you have no part in nor responsibility for the molokan people. As believers, you do.

Here is a general question not directed necessarily to disciple...

Where in the bible does it call for christians to maintain a church that has backslidden?

I believe that instead of trying to "fix" the problems with the current molokan brotherhood, why not let go of our religion, and grab onto biblical Christianity?

In regards to the statement,

"If you have not, then you are still joined to it as believers, you share in the responsibility for what goes on therin."

Any and all christians are called "out" of the world, and "into" the family of God.

The highest calling we can receive is the call from Jesus Christ.

Jesus' call is not only the highest calling, it is the only calling Christians should heed.

Any other calling is secondary at best.

If the molokan brotherhood were a bible preaching teaching church of Jesus Christ, like it was before Maxcim, than I would agree that I may be responsible.

Kevin Nazaroff

seeking_truth_1 · September 18, 2009

21st century molokanidm isn't Christianity

Christians are called out of the old and into new life

You cannot meld the two

Old wineskins...new wine

unless it's really not new wine

KevinPolyaNazaroff · October 3, 2009

Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. 2 Ti 3:12 NASB

I like the fact that scripture is clear as to who will have to endure persecution. All. And all means all.

I like this expounded definition of persecution...

1 to make to run or flee, put to flight, drive away.

2 to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after.

2A to press on: figuratively of one who in a race runs swiftly to reach the goal.

2B to pursue (in a hostile manner).

3 in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one.

3A to persecute.

3B to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something.

4 without the idea of hostility, to run after, follow after: someone.

5 metaph., to pursue.

5A to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire.

Strong, James: The Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible : Showing Every Word of the Text of the Common English Version of the Canonical Books, and Every Occurrence of Each Word in Regular Order. electronic ed. Ontario : Woodside Bible Fellowship., 1996, S. G1377

David Jeremiah said – The word persecute is the same root word from which we get “pursue.” It means to hunt something down, to chase after it. Before his conversion Paul persecuted the church, hunting down Christians and seeing to it that they were punished. As a Christian, you can expect that non-Christians will look for ways to demean you and will take pleasure in making your life hard.

Persecution is one of the natural consequences of living the Christian life. It is to the Christian what growing pains are to a child. No persecution, no reward. No suffering, no glory. No struggle, no victory. First Peter 5:10 asks that the God of all grace “who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.” God wants to make a difference in our world through your life.

THE AVERAGE AMERICAN CHRISTIAN

Steve Gallagher wrote this in one of his books - Take a moment, in this your last study, and reflect on some of the stories you have read. Do you see the common thread throughout these stories, of people who were willing to suffer if need be to bring Christ to the lost? Suffering has been a hallmark of the true Christian faith from the beginning. Paul said in Timothy 3:12, “And indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.” It is as simple as the law of gravity: if you desire to live a godly life, you will be persecuted. The truth of the matter is that we in America have become so acclimated to a sterile and pain-free lifestyle of comfort, that we simply are not willing to suffer for Christ.

But the suffering wasn’t the issue with these dear saints. They were willing to suffer, but why? The answer is that they had come to know Christ in a wonderful way. Once they had come truly to know Him, they were willing to endure anything to be able to share that joy with others.

We in America have kept ourselves insulated from God with the things of this world. We have so filled our lives with worldliness that we have no room for God, thus we never really get to know Him, and thus we have nothing to share with others but our own dogmatic viewpoints.

Christianity down through the centuries has always simply meant pouring one’s life out to others. Christianity in America now has become more of a matter of head knowledge, “ministers” competing with each other over who has the biggest church, the most radio stations, the biggest following. The speaker who can best appeal to the intellect or emotions of the people will be the one with the largest following. We have missed the whole concept of what Christianity is: selflessly living lives of mercy toward those around us. James said, “This is pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father, to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.” (James 1:27).

Jesus said, “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34–35). This commandment is every bit as real as the commandment not to commit fornication, and yet we lift up high one commandment in the Church and totally disregard the other! Do we really love others? People often think that because they don’t hurt others, they love others. That’s not love! Love means you are willing to sacrifice for others, to put the needs of others before your own.

Jesus said that the world would know us by one thing: our love for one another. But how difficult it is to find volunteers to go to the nursing home, to feed the poor—or even to work for Pure Life Ministries. People have their own agenda—their will for their lives.

The stories you have read over the last six months have been stories of those who had really experienced the love of Jesus Christ and sought to pour out that love to others. As you finish this curriculum, what will happen with your life? Will it change? Or will you just be one more comfortable, self-centered, American “Christian?”

Perhaps you are thinking that you really would like to go deeper in this Christian walk. What should you do? How do you know God’s will for your life?

God’s will for your life is love and mercy for others. Just find a place you can start pouring your life into others—and not in some way that’s going to bring attention to yourself. Go to the local convalescent hospital and start visiting people there, sharing Jesus if you have the opportunity. Find a jail ministry and get involved; they always need volunteers. Go to the local soup kitchen and offer to help them on Saturdays. Go to your pastor and tell him that you would like to volunteer quietly to do the job around the church that nobody else is willing to do.

Just start doing something. As you do, I assure you that God will sit up and take notice! If you show Him a heart of mercy for others, He will then give you more clear direction on what He wants for your life. But He won’t (can’t) speak to you if you are spending your life in front of a television, and selfishly thinking only of yourself.

Share the mercy and love with others that God has shared with you. “Freely you have received, now freely give!” Who knows, maybe someday people will be writing books about your life of mercy!

And here are some thoughts from the holy scriptures -

“Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. John 15:20 NASB

But the Jews incited the devout women of prominence and the leading men of the city, and instigated a persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and drove them out of their district. Acts 13:50 NASB

persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 2 Co 4:9 NASB

Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Ro 8:35 NASB

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Ro 12:14 NASB

Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Co 12:10 NASB

1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.

3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.

4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

8 This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you.

9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.

10 I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is.

11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.

12 I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.

13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

26 Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another. Ga 5:1-26 NASB

KevinPolyaNazaroff · April 9, 2010

The classification of the molokan church as a cult does not rest on the spirit and life book alone.

There are other issues that must be dealt with, besides the spirit and life book.

In re-reading this post by coffee, I am reminded of the gravity of the situation...

I picked out a few of his comments and reposted them in blue.

coffee wrote the following in a previous post on this thread...