Maybe A Split Is Necessary.

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

Maybe a split is necessary.

 

All those molokans who believe in racism and maxim can remain in their current "church".

 

 

The rest (the silent majority) can start a bible preaching, teaching, believing church that has an open door for all of God's children.

There is no s&l book.

There would only be a slight, (very slight) hint of russian tradition, but never a requirement.

 

All members would have to face the reality that their families may not ever be accepted by the prigun molokans ever again.

 

Does that sound reasonable?

 

Maybe call it the, Postayane Christians.

 

Easy now, it's just a thought....

Kevin Nazaroff

[lastinline 0]

Easy now, it's just a thought....

Kevin Nazaroff

 

I got a real giggle from this final thought, you must have heard the click of their switch blades opening.

 

But, seriously, there could be a time for just such a undertaking and it does sound very reasonable. It needs to start with a whole lot of prayer time on this issue and a desire to only do as the Holy Spirit leads.

 

lastinline (where serious minds think alike)

[seeking_truth_1 0]

I guess that could be an option

 

However, it seems that people are very much in to the trappings of molokanism it could be a difficult sell

 

Frankly, as one grows in the Lord, the externals really begin to lose any attraction

 

Why wear a 100.00+ dollar "peasant" shirt when a t-shirt works just fine

 

You could dress it up with a button up shirt for a few bucks more and be "styling"

 

Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ (Philippians 3:8)

 

The melding of the two is what got people into this mess in the first place

 

The legalism associated with "having to" wear this, or speak this way or do that is very strong

 

16 “Besides, who would patch old clothing with new cloth? For the new patch would shrink and rip away from the old cloth, leaving an even bigger tear than before.

17 “And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. For the old skins would burst from the pressure, spilling the wine and ruining the skins. New wine is stored in new wineskins so that both are preserved.” (Matthew 9:15-16)

 

I really believe the old wine skins (the cult of molokanism) could not hold the new wine (Truth)

 

What I don't get is many molokans (except clarkies) don't wear their sunday go to meeting cloths everyday

 

Why is that

 

If it's such a big deal within the "church" and such an integral part of the "religion" why isn't it everyday wear?

 

Pehaps the molokan uniform is exactly that..a uniform to show everyone how "holy" they are regardless of the condition of their heart

 

They could be total reprobates, but put the shirt or dress on and viola...Instant religious looking person

 

Jesus commented about this practice

 

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. (Matthew 23:37)

 

Maybe a split is necessary.

 

All those molokans who believe in racism and maxim can remain in their current "church".

 

 

The rest (the silent majority) can start a bible preaching, teaching, believing church that has an open door for all of God's children.

There is no s&l book.

There would only be a slight, (very slight) hint of russian tradition, but never a requirement.

 

All members would have to face the reality that their families may not ever be accepted by the prigun molokans ever again.

 

Does that sound reasonable?

 

Maybe call it the, Postayane Christians.

 

Easy now, it's just a thought....

Kevin Nazaroff

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

Even if all the "new-Israelites" go away and take the s&l with them, we are still left with a bunch of racists.

 

Little too broad on that, the "new israelite" belief system is the core of the problem and with its departure, will bring about a great deal of fresh clean air.

 

lastinline

I don't know about this one.

As you well know, I do not adhere to the "new Israel" form of belief.

I do not accept the s&l as inspired by God.

I do not read it and have no desire to have anything to do with it.

 

 

90 percent of the narod does not read that book anyway.

They have no clue what is actually written in it.

 

So if they do not read it, how can we blame all the problems that so many are ignorant about?

 

These are some tough questions...

 

I am not trying to keep that book.

I am just trying to keep the real problem in sight.

9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else

And is desperately sick;

Who can understand it?

Jer 17:9 NASB

 

The bible is on every table.

The good news of Jesus Christ is in that book.

Every person can read and preach and teach and learn from the Word of God.

 

But still, where are the conversions?

 

Kevin Nazaroff (and glad to be standing next to the guy at the back of the line)

 

 

 

[stevepiv 0]

90 percent of the narod does not read that book anyway.

They have no clue what is actually written in it.

 

So if they do not read it, how can we blame all the problems that so many are ignorant about?

 

Kevin,

 

I would say brother that more people read bits and pieces, only the parts that are sung out of. The problem is that this book promotes "we have something more special", "we are chosen for a higher calling than these other faiths", "king of spirits", "racism", "prayer for dead", "works based salvation", "nee-nashi", "new israel", "spiritual mysticism", "has the apperance that Bible isn't complete", "denies the FULL Deity of Jesus Christ", it adds "another king", "worship of man", "songs about men"....

 

So, many people may not read it, the brainwashing and evil spirit that this book promotes has taken grip of many people without them even picking up the s&l. The problem is allegiance to the cult and the fear and threatening tactics of being cut-off from family, from something you knew your whole life, fear of the future, not knowing on where to go to worship, fear of losing ALL friends...

 

It's a huge mess.

 

But GOD is bigger.

 

We felt the fear, had fear of letting people know where we stand, fear of going to another Church, fear of not having any friends...we took it to prayer and God has lead us.

 

Tonight, we were invited by some non-molokan friends from Church for dinner and fellowship, we go to their home, they come to ours.

 

There IS community when you are in God's Family.

 

[Guest Crossroads]

 

The Holy Spirit has convinced me that I must now decide about the Molokan church, to stay or go, and I need to be sure that I have read all the pertinent bible scriptures. The forum has obvious talent in doing subject searches can you help me? I want to consider all points of view. Crossroads

 

 

[Guest agua]

Interesting thought.........

 

Would you follow the holydays from the book of moses that mgr instructs us to follow?

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

The Holy Spirit has convinced me that I must now decide about the Molokan church, to stay or go, and I need to be sure that I have read all the pertinent bible scriptures. The forum has obvious talent in doing subject searches can you help me? I want to consider all points of view. Crossroads

 

 

I am just curious, how did the Holy Spirit convict you?

 

Also, someone gave me this advice, and I will pass it on to you.

 

If you leave, leave in love.

If you stay, stay in love.

27 “But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,

28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Luke 6:27-28 NASB

 

I know it is always a blow to my pride when God tells me I am lacking in love.

But...I would rather receive the Lords discipline now, and get back on His path.

Otherwise, the alternative is a constant drift away from His love and His will.

 

I can have all my theology down pat, possess a knowledge of the bible, have all the answers to life's problems.

But if I lack a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, it is all worthless.

 

So, if you stay or go, do it in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Anything less is sin.

17 Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father. Colossians 3:17 NASB

 

6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. Hebrews 11:6 NASB

 

 

Kevin Nazaroff

[lastinline 0]

The Holy Spirit has convinced me that I must now decide about the Molokan church, to stay or go, and I need to be sure that I have read all the pertinent bible scriptures. The forum has obvious talent in doing subject searches can you help me? I want to consider all points of view. Crossroads

 

 

I am just curious, how did the Holy Spirit convict you?

 

Also, someone gave me this advice, and I will pass it on to you.

 

If you leave, leave in love.

If you stay, stay in love.

27 “But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,

28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Luke 6:27-28 NASB

 

You definitely were given great advice. He simply said to me, paraphrasing, "do you believe the Bible or not." The choice is always the same, stand with God or stand with the enemy of God.

 

lastinline (& standing with HIM & HIM alone)

[stevepiv 0]

The Holy Spirit has convinced me that I must now decide about the Molokan church, to stay or go, and I need to be sure that I have read all the pertinent bible scriptures. The forum has obvious talent in doing subject searches can you help me? I want to consider all points of view. Crossroads

 

 

I am just curious, how did the Holy Spirit convict you?

 

Also, someone gave me this advice, and I will pass it on to you.

 

If you leave, leave in love.

If you stay, stay in love.

27 “But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,

28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Luke 6:27-28 NASB

 

You definitely were given great advice. He simply said to me, paraphrasing, "do you believe the Bible or not." The choice is always the same, stand with God or stand with the enemy of God.

 

lastinline (& standing with HIM & HIM alone)

 

That is great advice Kevin and lastinline.

 

As my family move forward my prayer is not to have any ill-feelings or hatred towards Molokans. I Love ALL people and pray that ALL would Repent and Trust in Jesus Christ. The Scripture that Kevin posted from Luke, that is where The Lord is working in me. And, it seems that God is giving us more opportunities to show that Love to people and pray for those who mistreat us. Because, they are acting out of ignorance. As a Christian, I ask for forgiveness to those I offended, and offer my forgiveness to those who have offended me.

 

 

 

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

Interesting thought.........

 

Would you follow the holydays from the book of moses that mgr instructs us to follow?

I don't know...I personally don't have a problem with celebrating God's holy days.

 

But,...these are secondary issues that have nothing to do with salvation, therefore are not required.

 

Really, it is up to God, not me or mgr.

 

What do you think?

 

Kevin Nazaroff

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

Easy now, it's just a thought....

Kevin Nazaroff

 

I got a real giggle from this final thought, you must have heard the click of their switch blades opening.

 

But, seriously, there could be a time for just such a undertaking and it does sound very reasonable. It needs to start with a whole lot of prayer time on this issue and a desire to only do as the Holy Spirit leads.

 

lastinline (where serious minds think alike)

I agree.

Pray.

So what about a weekly prayer meeting?

No bashing, no anger, no bitterness, no religion.

No mention of new israel or four square.

No mention of catholic or Protestant.

Just prayer.

Sunday mornings before morning church?

Saturday nights?

 

Just a bunch of people praying to God, nothing more, nothing less.

What do you think?

Would anybody seriously be interested?

 

 

Kevin Nazaroff (where the sound of switch blades makes me flinch every time)

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

I guess that could be an option

 

However, it seems that people are very much in to the trappings of molokanism it could be a difficult sell

 

Frankly, as one grows in the Lord, the externals really begin to lose any attraction

 

Why wear a 100.00+ dollar "peasant" shirt when a t-shirt works just fine

 

You could dress it up with a button up shirt for a few bucks more and be "styling"

 

Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ (Philippians 3:8)

 

The melding of the two is what got people into this mess in the first place

 

The legalism associated with "having to" wear this, or speak this way or do that is very strong

 

16 “Besides, who would patch old clothing with new cloth? For the new patch would shrink and rip away from the old cloth, leaving an even bigger tear than before.

17 “And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. For the old skins would burst from the pressure, spilling the wine and ruining the skins. New wine is stored in new wineskins so that both are preserved.” (Matthew 9:15-16)

 

I really believe the old wine skins (the cult of molokanism) could not hold the new wine (Truth)

 

What I don't get is many molokans (except clarkies) don't wear their sunday go to meeting cloths everyday

 

Why is that

 

If it's such a big deal within the "church" and such an integral part of the "religion" why isn't it everyday wear?

 

Pehaps the molokan uniform is exactly that..a uniform to show everyone how "holy" they are regardless of the condition of their heart

 

They could be total reprobates, but put the shirt or dress on and viola...Instant religious looking person

 

Jesus commented about this practice

 

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. (Matthew 23:37)

 

Maybe a split is necessary.

 

All those molokans who believe in racism and maxim can remain in their current "church".

 

 

The rest (the silent majority) can start a bible preaching, teaching, believing church that has an open door for all of God's children.

There is no s&l book.

There would only be a slight, (very slight) hint of russian tradition, but never a requirement.

 

All members would have to face the reality that their families may not ever be accepted by the prigun molokans ever again.

 

Does that sound reasonable?

 

Maybe call it the, Postayane Christians.

 

Easy now, it's just a thought....

Kevin Nazaroff

Yes, I agree.

I do like bosh, lapsha, and some of the other Russian traditions, but like you quoted apostle Paul, they are rubbish compared to Jesus.

 

But like so many, I am trying to deal with it all, and it is not always easy...

So in the meantime, I try to be honest and upfront with what is really going on.

 

 

 

Kevin Nazaroff

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree.

Pray.

So what about a weekly prayer meeting?

No bashing, no anger, no bitterness, no religion.

No mention of new israel or four square.

No mention of catholic or Protestant.

Just prayer.

Sunday mornings before morning church?

Saturday nights?

 

Just a bunch of people praying to God, nothing more, nothing less.

What do you think?

Would anybody seriously be interested?

 

 

Kevin Nazaroff (where the sound of switch blades makes me flinch every time)

Why reinvent the wheel, Kerman already has such a Sunday Morning Bible Study for molokan converts as you've described. lead by an individual from lake ave church?

 

[Guest theanswerisno]

The Holy Spirit has convinced me that I must now decide about the Molokan church, to stay or go, and I need to be sure that I have read all the pertinent bible scriptures. The forum has obvious talent in doing subject searches can you help me? I want to consider all points of view. Crossroads

 

 

I am just curious, how did the Holy Spirit convict you?

 

Also, someone gave me this advice, and I will pass it on to you.

 

If you leave, leave in love.

If you stay, stay in love.

27 “But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,

28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Luke 6:27-28 NASB

 

You definitely were given great advice. He simply said to me, paraphrasing, "do you believe the Bible or not." The choice is always the same, stand with God or stand with the enemy of God.

 

lastinline (& standing with HIM & HIM alone)

 

That is great advice Kevin and lastinline.

 

As my family move forward my prayer is not to have any ill-feelings or hatred towards Molokans. I Love ALL people and pray that ALL would Repent and Trust in Jesus Christ. The Scripture that Kevin posted from Luke, that is where The Lord is working in me. And, it seems that God is giving us more opportunities to show that Love to people and pray for those who mistreat us. Because, they are acting out of ignorance. As a Christian, I ask for forgiveness to those I offended, and offer my forgiveness to those who have offended me.

 

 

That is really sad. Your children would make fantastic members of the Molokan church. They are well behaved and have great parents. But the part that messes up the whole thing is your desire to do the Lord's outside of the Molokan community, when we have so many issues inside of it that you can help us with. We all pray that you will see the error of your ways and come back. You can put your nickle on the table and go from there.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

As you grow in the Lord He will make it clear as to what is necessary for you and your family

 

Those traditions, in and of themselves, are cultural identifiers and in no way should be misconstrued as anything to do with Christianity

 

I enjoy all types of ethnic foods but I cannot make them a mandatory part of my Christianity because those requirements ARE NOT found in Scripture

 

In other words I cannot say:

"if you don't eat mexican food, you cannot participate in Church"

"if you don't wear a sombrero, you cannot participate in Church"

"if you don't marry a mexican, you cannot participate in Church"

"if you don't speak spanish, you cannot participate in Church"

 

Perhaps that might sound ridiculous, but all you need to do is substitute russian with mexican/spanish and you'll have the cult of molokanism

 

These cultural identifiers have become the "god" of the cult of molokanism

 

Yes, I agree.

I do like bosh, lapsha, and some of the other Russian traditions, but like you quoted apostle Paul, they are rubbish compared to Jesus.

 

But like so many, I am trying to deal with it all, and it is not always easy...

So in the meantime, I try to be honest and upfront with what is really going on.

 

 

 

Kevin Nazaroff

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Why?

 

Because of their "behavior"?

 

How can serving God anywhere be "messed up" by going where you are called?

 

But when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, you will receive power and will tell people about me everywhere––in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." (Acts 1:8)

 

Help the molokans with what?

 

Maintaining the status quo?

 

The question that needs to be asked is not if someone should be leaving but rather why are you staying?

 

What is there that is Spiritually beneficial?

 

Familiarity and familial connection are not good reasons and there is certainly no Spiritual benefit in and of themselves

 

You can still maintain those connections AND be a participant in a Bible teaching Church

 

By the way you really should clear up your contradictions regarding "true church" and your mis-handling of Matthew 18

 

 

 

That is really sad. Your children would make fantastic members of the Molokan church. They are well behaved and have great parents. But the part that messes up the whole thing is your desire to do the Lord's outside of the Molokan community, when we have so many issues inside of it that you can help us with. We all pray that you will see the error of your ways and come back. You can put your nickle on the table and go from there.

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

I agree.

Pray.

So what about a weekly prayer meeting?

No bashing, no anger, no bitterness, no religion.

No mention of new israel or four square.

No mention of catholic or Protestant.

Just prayer.

Sunday mornings before morning church?

Saturday nights?

 

Just a bunch of people praying to God, nothing more, nothing less.

What do you think?

Would anybody seriously be interested?

 

 

Kevin Nazaroff (where the sound of switch blades makes me flinch every time)

Why reinvent the wheel, Kerman already has such a Sunday Morning Bible Study for molokan converts as you've described. lead by an individual from lake ave church?

Yes, you have a good point.

When I posted this, the thought of that class went through my head.

 

I have been wanting to go for a while now.

 

I think I just might give it a try here soon...

 

Kevin Nazaroff

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

Interesting thought.........

 

Would you follow the holydays from the book of moses that mgr instructs us to follow?

I also have a question in regards to God's holy days.

 

I have heard it said many times that we need to keep and fulfill God's holy days.

 

But what about the sabbath?

Current molokanism does not keep the Sabbath.

Current molokanism keeps the ecumenical 666 day for its church services, which is Sunday.

 

So, it really does not matter if we celebrate all of the Holy days, but leave out the Sabbath.

 

So, according to those that say we must observe and fulfill God's holy days, do you not see that you are not fulfilling the most important holy day of all?

And you break the Sabbath every week.

I thought that molokan churches did not belong to the ecumenical 666 catholic/protestant swine eating/idol worshiping church?

 

8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 “Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

11 “For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

Ex 20:8-11 NASB

 

3 ‘Every one of you shall reverence his mother and his father, and you shall keep My sabbaths; I am the LORD your God. Le 19:3 NASB

 

30 ‘You shall keep My sabbaths and revere My sanctuary; I am the LORD. Le 19:30 NASB

 

13 “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. Ex 31:13 NASB

 

 

17 “It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.” Ex 31:17 NASB

 

16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. Lk 4:16 NASB

 

27 “For those who live in Jerusalem, and their rulers, recognizing neither Him nor the utterances of the prophets which are read every Sabbath, fulfilled these by condemning Him. Ac 13:27 NASB

 

 

21 “For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.” Ac 15:21 NASB

 

13 “If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot

From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,

And call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable,

And honor it, desisting from your own ways,

From seeking your own pleasure

And speaking your own word,

14 Then you will take delight in the LORD,

And I will make you ride on the heights of the earth;

And I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father,

For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.” . Is 58:13-14 NASB

 

 

 

 

If prigun molokans can break the sabbath, then the imaginary postayan church can break the holy days.

 

Sound fair?

 

The prigun church is already causing the postayan church to stumble.

 

That's not very nice...

 

Kevin Nazaroff

 

 

 

 

[lastinline 0]

The prigun church is already causing the postayan church to stumble.

 

That's not very nice...

 

Kevin Nazaroff

I vividly remember an example of this type of deceitfulness. A speaker took great pleasure in reading a copy of a letter that he received from the now deceased (needed 3 pominki) minister of Milikoy who had received it from a Volkov elder from Samarin Church. This elder (Volkov) referred to being related to a women mentioned by mgr in the s&l who was forcibly used as a surrogate mother by pork eaters, solely for being a follower of mgr. This women was said to be exposed as a "new israelite" by some evil postayani. This was portrayed as true suffering for being a true believer and also suffering for his new found true-blue Molokan "new israel" belief.

 

lastinline (& continuing to serve)

[seeking_truth_1 0]

What happened to this Kevin?

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

What happened to this Kevin?

 

It is possible that this will happen.

Maybe soon, maybe in a while.

 

No one, not even you offered to help me start.

 

 

Have you changed your mind and are now offering to help?

 

Let me know if you are interested in activly helping.

 

Kevin Nazaroff

[KevinPolyaNazaroff 0]

What happened to this Kevin?

 

It is possible that this will happen.

Maybe soon, maybe in a while.

 

No one, not even you offered to help me start.

 

 

Have you changed your mind and are now offering to help?

 

Let me know if you are interested in activly helping.

 

Kevin Nazaroff

Until this split happens, I have been meeting with some Godly Christians on Sunday mornings.

 

The Bible is tought and I have been learning from these men and women of God.

 

Also, if anyone is serious about starting a postayn church, please contact me.

I believe that prayer should be the first step.

 

Weekly prayer meetings?

 

Kevin Nazaroff

[seeking_truth_1 0]

An interesting concept, but I'm not in agreement with start yet another molokan "church"

 

Why do all of that when there are plenty of Bible teaching Churches around?

 

A Christian Church plant might be an option but not with all of the baggage of molokanism

 

It seems like a waste of time and resources

 

 

What happened to this Kevin?

 

It is possible that this will happen.

Maybe soon, maybe in a while.

 

No one, not even you offered to help me start.

 

 

Have you changed your mind and are now offering to help?

 

Let me know if you are interested in activly helping.

 

Kevin Nazaroff

[LTTBT 0]

An interesting concept, but I'm not in agreement with start yet another molokan "church"

 

Why do all of that when there are plenty of Bible teaching Churches around?

 

A Christian Church plant might be an option but not with all of the baggage of molokanism

 

It seems like a waste of time and resources

 

 

What happened to this Kevin?

 

It is possible that this will happen.

Maybe soon, maybe in a while.

 

No one, not even you offered to help me start.

 

 

Have you changed your mind and are now offering to help?

 

Let me know if you are interested in activly helping.

 

Kevin Nazaroff

 

A cry for help, and you turn your back.......wow

I would have thought you would have stepped up to the plate for this one, but It must not be your calling.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Wait a minute...

 

I'm not turning my back... I'm not in agreement with the notion of an other molokan "church"

 

Why can't it be a Christian Church sans the molokan?

 

What part of molokanism is Biblical or even necessary?

 

Do you really want to create a Church whose emphasis is on culture, traditions, language etc...?

 

You saw what occurred when molokanism was elevated above Christianity

 

It's a flawed foundation that detracted from the function of what a Church should be involved in

 

Why duplicate the same mistakes?

 

Now, if Kevin or someone else said:

 

"Hey, we have a Bible study on Sundays and

• We have an overt published Statement of Faith that acknowledges who Jesus is, the inerrency of Scripture, how Salvation is secured and what the mission of the Church is
• All are welcomed regardless of race, skin color etc...
• We meet in an empty room with all of the trapping of molokanism removed
• We teach ONLY the Bible
• The distinctives of molokanism will not be taught

can you help?"

 

that might be different

 

 

 

A cry for help, and you turn your back.......wow

I would have thought you would have stepped up to the plate for this one, but It must not be your calling.

[Guest jkornoff]

What happened to this Kevin?

 

It is possible that this will happen.

Maybe soon, maybe in a while.

 

No one, not even you offered to help me start.

 

 

Have you changed your mind and are now offering to help?

 

Let me know if you are interested in activly helping.

 

Kevin Nazaroff

 

 

 

 

Psalm 60:11-12 (King James Version)

 

11Give us help from trouble: for vain is the help of man.

 

12Through God we shall do valiantly: for he it is that shall tread down our enemies.

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

This is not exactly accurate.

 

It certainly will take co-laborers to see a Church begin

 

However, if you simply get people together apart from the will of God, you can expect the effort to fail in the flesh if it was started in the flesh

 

1 I will lift up my eyes to the hills—From whence comes my help?

2 My help comes from the LORD, Who made heaven and earth.

3 He will not allow your foot to be moved; He who keeps you will not slumber.

4 Behold, He who keeps Israel Shall neither slumber nor sleep.

5 The LORD is your keeper; The LORD is your shade at your right hand.

6 The sun shall not strike you by day, Nor the moon by night.

7 The LORD shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul.

8 The LORD shall preserve your going out and your coming in From this time forth, and even forevermore. (Psalm 121:1-8)

 

6 Now I know that the LORD saves His anointed; He will answer him from His holy heaven With the saving strength of His right hand.

7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses; But we will remember the name of the LORD our God.

8 They have bowed down and fallen; But we have risen and stand upright.

9 Save, LORD! May the King answer us when we call. (Psalm 20:6-9)

 

 

 

1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?

2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? — (Galatians 3:1-5)

 

 

Psalm 60:11-12 (King James Version)

 

11Give us help from trouble: for vain is the help of man.

 

12Through God we shall do valiantly: for he it is that shall tread down our enemies.

[Guest A.O.L.]

It is possible that this will happen.

Maybe soon, maybe in a while.

No one, not even you offered to help me start.

Have you changed your mind and are now offering to help?

Let me know if you are interested in activly helping.

Kevin Nazaroff

Many of us in the camp of Biblical Truth only Molokans, could envision such an undertaking as quite nobel. Could not this very group that has been gathering many years, be in some way a spring board to just such an endeavor? Or, why not in some way, just consider this gathering as a satellite of the Postayani Church of San Francisco. I'm sure they wouldn't mind this designation. Since this gathering does pretty much everything that is done in any other small Church gathering, Bible study and Prayer, what else is really necessary to consider this gathering a type of Church?

 

An interesting concept, but I'm not in agreement with start yet another molokan "church"

Why do all of that when there are plenty of Bible teaching Churches around?

A Christian Church plant might be an option but not with all of the baggage of molokanism

It seems like a waste of time and resources

Merely interesting? Surely you can see that Kevin has the proper Christian credentials and especially no desire of mgr "baggage of molokanism" to be part of the equation. So why not just offer encouragement?

 

A cry for help, and you turn your back.......wow

I would have thought you would have stepped up to the plate for this one, but It must not be your calling.

I agree, a bit of a miss-step on this one.

 

Always Observing & Listening

 

[Guest A.O.L.]

This is not exactly accurate.

 

It certainly will take co-laborers to see a Church begin

 

However, if you simply get people together apart from the will of God, you can expect the effort to fail in the flesh if it was started in the flesh

I'd say that it is awfully close to accurate. Because, Kevin has earned the right to expect that you grant him your expectation that he surely would not proceed without just such an understating and due diligence of making this an effort, which would not be apart from the will of God. At least to the extent that it is even possible.

 

Always Observing & Listening

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Christian credentials (having accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior) are not enough if you are speaking about leading a Christian Church or small group study

 

It is an admirable thing for someone to desire to be in such a position

 

This is a trustworthy saying: "If someone aspires to be an elder, he desires an honorable position." (1 Timothy 3:1)

 

Scripture is VERY clear about whom should be in such a position and young (not age) Christians are not on the list

 

An elder must not be a new believer, because he might become proud, and the devil would cause him to fall. (1 Timothy 3:6)

 

They also much have evidence of their maturity that has been tested and proven (not perfect, just evidence)

 

8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money,

9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience.

10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. (1 Timothy 3:10)

 

Do I honestly believe Kevin has what it takes to become a Pastor or member of the hierarchy of such a Church or group at this time, I'd say no and Scripture supports that view

 

If there was regular, consistent attendance at a Bible teaching Church over an extended period of time, perhaps things would be different

 

Nor can I offer "Hey, that's a great idea" if I really do not think is it

 

The desire needs to be tempered with the Word of God

 

The other point is, why more molokanism (one book or two)?

 

Who is that going to help?

 

What would help a "ne-nash" neighbor come to a saving knowledge of Jesus?

 

Teaching the Bible or eating kosher?

Teaching the Bible or observing cultural traditions?

Teaching the Bible or wearing peasant clothing?

 

Paul said it best

 

4 ¶ though I could have confidence in my own effort if anyone could. Indeed, if others have reason for confidence in their own efforts, I have even more!

5 I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law.

6 I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault.

7 I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done.

8 Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ (Philippians 3:4-8)

 

Are you or anyone else willing to lay down their "molokan-ness" for the sake of the Gospel?

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is possible that this will happen.

Maybe soon, maybe in a while.

No one, not even you offered to help me start.

Have you changed your mind and are now offering to help?

Let me know if you are interested in activly helping.

Kevin Nazaroff

Many of us in the camp of Biblical Truth only Molokans, could envision such an undertaking as quite nobel. Could not this very group that has been gathering many years, be in some way a spring board to just such an endeavor? Or, why not in some way, just consider this gathering as a satellite of the Postayani Church of San Francisco. I'm sure they wouldn't mind this designation. Since this gathering does pretty much everything that is done in any other small Church gathering, Bible study and Prayer, what else is really necessary to consider this gathering a type of Church?

 

An interesting concept, but I'm not in agreement with start yet another molokan "church"

Why do all of that when there are plenty of Bible teaching Churches around?

A Christian Church plant might be an option but not with all of the baggage of molokanism

It seems like a waste of time and resources

Merely interesting? Surely you can see that Kevin has the proper Christian credentials and especially no desire of mgr "baggage of molokanism" to be part of the equation. So why not just offer encouragement?

 

A cry for help, and you turn your back.......wow

I would have thought you would have stepped up to the plate for this one, but It must not be your calling.

I agree, a bit of a miss-step on this one.

 

Always Observing & Listening

 

[Guest A.O.L.]

Do I honestly believe Kevin has what it takes to become a Pastor or member of the hierarchy of such a Church or group at this time, I'd say no and Scripture supports that view.

How do you seem to come to such a conclusion, that Kevin was somehow desiring or claiming to be the leader of this group or any other?

 

All he said was:

Until this split happens, I have been meeting with some Godly Christians on Sunday mornings.

The Bible is taught and I have been learning from these men and women of God.

Also, if anyone is serious about starting a postayani church, please contact me.

I believe that prayer should be the first step.

Weekly prayer meetings?

Kevin Nazaroff

From that, you decide to proclaim that he is not yet ready to be some kind of leader? I'm quite sure, a mere oops, I believe would be OK with Kevin.

 

Always Observing & Listening

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Seeing as he said, "if anyone is serious about starting a postayani church, please contact me."

 

That to me would indicate he's either looking to lead or be a part of the hierarchy

 

It would be odd to say "hey whoever is interested in starting a Church, let me know so you can do it and I can just show up"

 

In either case, the cited Scripture still applies

 

I know enough about the situation to make an educated observation.

 

It's not that an individual doesn't have their heart in the right place, it comes down to being qualified from a Bible standpoint

 

If someone is not regularly and consistently attending a Bible teaching Church (at least EVERY Sunday and a midweek study) they'll not be properly equipped to deal with such an endeavor

 

Not trying to be dogmatic, just realistic about it

 

Obviously there are always exceptions to the rule, but

 

1) You cannot teach what you have not been taught

2) You cannot lead where you have not been led

 

Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged more strictly. (James 3:1)

 

Does that seem reasonable?

 

By the way, you glossed over the other issue...

 

Maybe that should be another thead

 

Do I honestly believe Kevin has what it takes to become a Pastor or member of the hierarchy of such a Church or group at this time, I'd say no and Scripture supports that view.

How do you seem to come to such a conclusion, that Kevin was somehow desiring or claiming to be the leader of this group or any other?

 

All he said was:

Until this split happens, I have been meeting with some Godly Christians on Sunday mornings.

The Bible is taught and I have been learning from these men and women of God.

Also, if anyone is serious about starting a postayani church, please contact me.

I believe that prayer should be the first step.

Weekly prayer meetings?

Kevin Nazaroff

From that, you decide to proclaim that he is not yet ready to be some kind of leader? I'm quite sure, a mere oops, I believe would be OK with Kevin.

 

Always Observing & Listening

[Guest A.O.L.]

Seeing as he said, "if anyone is serious about starting a postayani church, please contact me."

 

That to me would indicate he's either looking to lead or be a part of the hierarchy

 

If someone is not regularly and consistently attending a Bible teaching Church (at least EVERY Sunday and a midweek study) they'll not be properly equipped to deal with such an endeavor.

 

Not trying to be dogmatic, just realistic about it.

 

Does that seem reasonable?

 

By the way, you glossed over the other issue...

Sorry, a mere inquiry, does not mean he is claiming to have a Doctorate degree from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, although at times he does give me pause. Considering the wide audience on this forum, I would not find it odd, whatsoever.

 

I also am also close enough to the situation to possibly even make a better observation.

 

If someone is not regularly and consistently attending a Bible teaching Church (at least EVERY Sunday and a midweek study) they'll not be properly equipped to deal with such an endeavor.

 

Not trying to be dogmatic, just realistic about it.

 

Does that seem reasonable?

Sorry again, you are being dogmatic, un-realistic and un-reasonable in my humble opinion.

 

You'll need to fill me in on, just what I'm glossing over. Also, maybe we'll have just lovingly disagree on this issue.

 

In a lighter note, this might give you a giggle. Me personally putting up a sign up of "Apartment for Rent," would not make me an apartment.

 

 

Always Observing & Listening

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

You are correct....

 

An inquiry does not indicate qualification or a lack thereof

 

However, it's serious business and one needs to prayerfully consider the requirements and cost involved

 

New believers can be ill prepared and that's why I'm raising the issue

 

They can be enthusiastic yet lack the training and maturity necessary to endure what is awaiting them

 

Seeing as he said, "if anyone is serious about starting a postayani church, please contact me."

 

That to me would indicate he's either looking to lead or be a part of the hierarchy

 

If someone is not regularly and consistently attending a Bible teaching Church (at least EVERY Sunday and a midweek study) they'll not be properly equipped to deal with such an endeavor.

 

Not trying to be dogmatic, just realistic about it.

 

Does that seem reasonable?

 

By the way, you glossed over the other issue...

Sorry, a mere inquiry, does not mean he is claiming to have a Doctorate degree from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, although at times he does give me pause. Considering the wide audience on this forum, I would not find it odd, whatsoever.

 

I also am also close enough to the situation to possibly even make a better observation.

 

If someone is not regularly and consistently attending a Bible teaching Church (at least EVERY Sunday and a midweek study) they'll not be properly equipped to deal with such an endeavor.

 

Not trying to be dogmatic, just realistic about it.

 

Does that seem reasonable?

Sorry again, you are being dogmatic, un-realistic and un-reasonable in my humble opinion.

 

You'll need to fill me in on, just what I'm glossing over. Also, maybe we'll have just lovingly disagree on this issue.

 

In a lighter note, this might give you a giggle. Me personally putting up a sign up of "Apartment for Rent," would not make me an apartment.

 

 

Always Observing & Listening

 

[Guest A.O.L.]

You are correct....

 

An inquiry does not indicate qualification or a lack thereof

 

However, it's serious business and one needs to prayerfully consider the requirements and cost involved

 

New believers can be ill prepared and that's why I'm raising the issue

 

They can be enthusiastic yet lack the training and maturity necessary to endure what is awaiting them

Wow, what a pleasent way to pretty much end a conversation.

 

This I enthusiastically agree with.

However, it's serious business and one needs to prayerfully consider the requirements and cost involved.

Pleasent Dreams!

 

Always Observing & Listening

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

What are the qualifications of an elder?

 

 

 

You are correct....

 

An inquiry does not indicate qualification or a lack thereof

 

However, it's serious business and one needs to prayerfully consider the requirements and cost involved

 

New believers can be ill prepared and that's why I'm raising the issue

 

They can be enthusiastic yet lack the training and maturity necessary to endure what is awaiting them

Wow, what a pleasent way to pretty much end a conversation.

 

This I enthusiastically agree with.

However, it's serious business and one needs to prayerfully consider the requirements and cost involved.

Pleasent Dreams!

 

Always Observing & Listening