Molokan Survey In The Mail

stevepiv · July 22, 2010

Did anyone else get a Molokan survey sent to them in the mail?

If not, I will scan a copy. The data collector of the survey wishes to obtain information with no clear conclusion and not knowing what it may accomplish.

But, he does offer to receive feedback from anyone interested.

July 22, 2010

Did anyone else get a Molokan survey sent to them in the mail?

If not, I will scan a copy. The data collector of the survey wishes to obtain information with no clear conclusion and not knowing what it may accomplish.

But, he does offer to receive feedback from anyone interested.

I would be interested in seeing the survey, is telephone contact information enclosed?

LTTBT · July 22, 2010

Maybe they are trying to find out what a Molokan is???????

I am not on the radar, therefore I haven't and won't receive one :>)

Edited July 22, 2010 by LTTBT

stevepiv · July 23, 2010

Here is a copy of the Survey I received

Did anyone else get one????

Maybe Admin can help to upload this as an image. Thanks!

Edited July 23, 2010 by admin

July 23, 2010

Here is a copy of the Survey I received

In the first page of his survey Mr. Berokoff had no problem identifying what a molokan is, it's an interesting read, I think the second page of responses are his real motive.

Mr. Andy Berokoff are you willing to be a participant on this forum, I have questions for you, the last time you and I spoke was at a funeral in Big church, I found you to be a very intelligent and pleasant individual. I look forward to dialoguing with you.

seeking_truth_1 · July 24, 2010

After reading the "poll" that was not supposed to "chide any person", I have to question the motives of this person

It is wholly possible our pollster is woefully ignorant and certainly is not a Christian especially in light of their statement "remember they were pacifists and believed that Jesus is the Son of God and not God"

The "poll" starts out seemingly innocent asking marital status but soon after takes a hard "left turn" from "poll" to biased un-Biblical propaganda for the cult of molokanism

The "poll" stops asking questions and begins to make baseless assertions under the guise of fact finding touching on

1) Intermarriage with "ne-nash"

2) Style of worship as doctrine

3) giving the cult of molokanism "credibility" for having survived 100 years

4) equating discomfort and "truth"because if your church seats have any padding your pastor is selling "snake oil"

The parting shot from this ignorant man reinforces that ignorance

"During a years time, Molokans gather for Church services ten to twenty times more than non-Molokans"

Where in the heck does he get his "facts"

Speaking from personal experience in regards to the Christian Church we attend here's my math

There are 5 Church services a week (4 on Sunday and one midweek)

There is a midweek mens, 2 womens & a senior adult Bible study

That is not including special events such as weddings, funerals or Holidays

52 weeks a year times 9 = 468 times a year

For conversation sake, lets say there is a funeral and a wedding 6 times a year totaling 12 (6 weddings + 6 funerals = 12)

My count is 480 times a year

According to our "pollster" molokans have services 10 to 20 times more equaling 4800 to 9600 services

There is only 365 days a year so molokans have a "church service" between 13 to 26 times a day (I did round down slightly)

Since the average molokan "church" services last about 1.5 hours molokans are in church between 19.5 to 39 hours a day

We will not address the fact molokan holidays, funerals and weddings are several hours which would increase the hours allegedly spent

Not sure what universe this guy lives in but I'm confident Einstein would love to see the math

If this guy is an elder, he is the reason why the cult of molokanism perpetuates lies and ignorance

KevinPolyaNazaroff · July 24, 2010

From what I know, he is a reasonable man, and maybe his intentions are better than what we might think they are.

What could it hurt to fill out the survey?

The more responses he gets, the more informed he (or the elders) will be in regards to what's really going on.

I disagree with his statement on the deity of Jesus.

This is the only question I really have a gripe about.

That is where my comments would be directed to.

The other questions are opinions that have no affect on anybody's salvation.

There are a lot of people who are mis informed about the Biblical Christian community that surrounds and supports the molokans.

There are many in the molokan community who have heard the gospel through various biblical sources.

These Christian ministries have given, and continue to give to the molokan community,

even thought the molokans do not support them in return.

Kevin Nazaroff

seeking_truth_1 · July 24, 2010

If he, like EGK and others cannot get who Jesus is, everything that from from that is flawed

You say he is reasonable but yet there is an obvious un-Biblical bias to make non-essentials doctrine

I do not see his reason at all.

Making pejorative statements about all Churches being filled with guys who know how to move a crowd because of speech techniques is ridiculous

The pastor at the Church we attend is not a Bible college graduate at all

He started a home Bible study with 3 people and taught the Bible

This is the case for more than just him

I know of several pastors who, as called by the Lord, started home studies that grew into groups of hundreds and even thousands

Our "pollsters" worldview is warped and biased as if to say the molokans are the only ones who have it right

Nothing can be further from the Truth

The notion that the cult of molokanism and it's style of "worship" is somehow profound because people spend hundreds of hours singing is equally ridiculous

All the singing in the world apart from a personal knowledge of Jesus is worthless

As it all the molokan rules, traditions & liturgy because those things, in and of themselves, will not save

little koshka · July 24, 2010

From what I know, he is a reasonable man, and maybe his intentions are better than what we might think they are.

What could it hurt to fill out the survey?

The more responses he gets, the more informed he (or the elders) will be in regards to what's really going on.

I disagree with his statement on the deity of Jesus.

This is the only question I really have a gripe about.

That is where my comments would be directed to.

The other questions are opinions that have no affect on anybody's salvation.

There are a lot of people who are mis informed about the Biblical Christian community that surrounds and supports the molokans.

There are many in the molokan community who have heard the gospel through various biblical sources.

These Christian ministries have given, and continue to give to the molokan community,

even thought the molokans do not support them in return.

Kevin Nazaroff

I have to agree with Kevin.

If anyone has questions regarding Mr. Berokoff's intentions and has issues, wouldn't it be better to contact him via mail or phone and approach him respectfully about it first before throwing out negative accusations?

I have read the survey and I have to say that this may be one of the first times an "elder" may actually be interested to hear what people have to say.

Some of the questions may seem "abrasive", but consider this; how many "elders" have taken the initiative to do this?

He is in his eighties, and has gone through life differently than most people whether it be in the Molokan community or outside of the Molokan community.

In my opinion, most people in his peer group are quite set in their ways and live within a certain mindset or have a life routine.

(I am not saying that in a negative light - most people I know are set in their ways including myself.)

There can be different ways to ask the same question - sometimes a person's intention may get lost in the process of expressing the question.

If people do actually participate in the survey I hope that they answer the questions respectfully and factually and if they have (negative) issues that they express them in a way that would bring the issues out in a constructive way.

If you want to communicate and get your thoughts (and opinions) out to someone, think about the person on the receiving end.

Say you have a friend or a relative that is hurt, mad, or upset with you or something else, and you ask them to write you a note or put the issues into outline form.

Would you rather read a note full of negativity, rants, and raves, with some of the facts woven in here and there, or would you rather read something that resepectfully and constructively presents the facts?

If people choose to answer this survey, I hope that they can do it with Christ in mind and convey their thoughts in a mature, respectful, eloquent, and organized manner.

How you answer the survey will represent your character whether you put your name on it or answer it anonymously.

Mr. Berokoff might share the returned survey with others.

This could do something, and maybe it wont.

There may be something in your answers or someone else's answers that will inspire a person or people to pray or open a Bible and follow the Lord.

Think about it.

July 24, 2010

If he, like EGK and others cannot get who Jesus is, everything that from from that is flawed
You say he is reasonable but yet there is an obvious un-Biblical bias to make non-essentials doctrine

I do not see his reason at all.

On page one Mr. Berokoff says his molokan church is Christian, then denies the deity of Jesus.

On page one Mr. Berokoff does not consider that divorced individuals can be molokans. (admin, you inserted a marital status option which Mr. Berokoff did not include in his survey.)

On page one Mr. Berokoff does not address MGR's commandment that persons having illegitimate matrimony can not attain Salvation. page 444 verses 16-17& 21 "Because today the Kingdom which is spiritual, and forgiving of all sin and ignorance, has risen. Except for the [forgiveness of] blasphemy of the Holy Spirit AND illegitimate matrimony. In them even you have strayed at times by the signs of the letter of delusion." #21. And he who disobeys these ten commandments given by me (Rudometkin) in God surely is an enemy, and he will be banished by me (Rudometkin) immediately from Zion yonder, straight to Babylon.

Mr. Berokoff upholds more unforgivable sins. MGR 11:26 The division of people into two groups. Each group to marry within their own calling and family. Divorce a product of the devils influence. ..MGR 11:26:12 blasphemers of the Spirit of truth have caused divorce.

MGR page 554 verse 10. He who severs apart such a holy pair will be accursed therein forever, for he has broken the covenant of God.

More unforgivable sins upheld by Mr Berokoff "the reasonable Christian" Illegitimate children can not attain Salvation Page. 655 verse 1, "After death, children, whose parents who do not live by the will of God, are brought by a pale horse into a swampy area and are transported from there into dark seclusion and remain there until the judgment of God." EGK article 26 v12

Mr. Berokoff, may not realize his religion is false or that he and his molokan church are actually worshiping the false christ that influenced Rudometkin's heresies.

Mr. Berokoff's survey was a maneuver to promote his false religion.

seeking_truth_1 · July 24, 2010

His intentions and biases are evident

Just because he's older gives him a hall pass?

I do not agree

You said you reviewed the survey in its entirety and you really believe he's interested in what "ne-nash" have to say?

Jesus, when dealing with the religious leaders knew they were not asking honest questions and frankly that is what I see with this "survey"

But Jesus knew their evil motives. "You hypocrites!" he said. "Whom are you trying to fool with your trick questions? Matthew 22:18

You can see how the "survey" started out and how it ended up

"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. (Luke 6:45)

You also did notice he didn't want responses from "molokans" past a certain point on page 1

Why not ask a "practicing" molokan if they agree with his view on the

1) Deity of Jesus

2) Intermarriage

3) Style of Worship

4) Pacifism

He doesn't want the Truth, he wants to find fault with those who were fortunate to get out of a cult

The dialog should be among the REAL Christians within molokanism and the 2 book cultists

2 bookers will summarily dismiss "ne-nash" because, well they're "ne-nash"

I have to agree with Kevin.
If anyone has questions regarding Mr. Berokoff's intentions and has issues, wouldn't it be better to contact him via mail or phone and approach him respectfully about it first before throwing out negative accusations?

I have read the survey and I have to say that this may be one of the first times an "elder" may actually be interested to hear what people have to say.

Some of the questions may seem "abrasive", but consider this; how many "elders" have taken the initiative to do this?

He is in his eighties, and has gone through life differently than most people whether it be in the Molokan community or outside of the Molokan community.

In my opinion, most people in his peer group are quite set in their ways and live within a certain mindset or have a life routine.

(I am not saying that in a negative light - most people I know are set in their ways including myself.)

There can be different ways to ask the same question - sometimes a person's intention may get lost in the process of expressing the question.

If people do actually participate in the survey I hope that they answer the questions respectfully and factually and if they have (negative) issues that they express them in a way that would bring the issues out in a constructive way.

If you want to communicate and get your thoughts (and opinions) out to someone, think about the person on the receiving end.

Say you have a friend or a relative that is hurt, mad, or upset with you or something else, and you ask them to write you a note or put the issues into outline form.

Would you rather read a note full of negativity, rants, and raves, with some of the facts woven in here and there, or would you rather read something that resepectfully and constructively presents the facts?

If people choose to answer this survey, I hope that they can do it with Christ in mind and convey their thoughts in a mature, respectful, eloquent, and organized manner.

How you answer the survey will represent your character whether you put your name on it or answer it anonymously.

Mr. Berokoff might share the returned survey with others.

This could do something, and maybe it wont.

There may be something in your answers or someone else's answers that will inspire a person or people to pray or open a Bible and follow the Lord.

Think about it.

KevinPolyaNazaroff · July 24, 2010

You also did notice he didn't want responses from "molokans" past a certain point on page 1

Why not ask a "practicing" molokan if they agree with his view on the

1) Deity of Jesus

2) Intermarriage

3) Style of Worship

4) Pacifism

I am sure he has heard and already knows what the responses would be from the average molokan.

This seems to be an attempt to hear from those that have stepped away from the "brotherhood".

Also, he did not share his personal view of the deity of Jesus.

He stated that those who established the molokans in russia beleived that "Jesus is the Son of God, and not God".

But even this statement is disputable.

Here is a portion of "The Summary of Dogmas and Prayer Book", with a comment by coffee.

Christ, the Word

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld His glory, glory as of the Only Son from the Father." (John 1:1 and John 1:14)

This same Wisdom, at the time of the creation of the earth by the Word, began to dwell in God`s people, as the Word (the Apocrypha, Ecclesiasticus, Jesus the son of Sirach 24:7-12). That Wisdom, or Christ, became the Word, is evident in that, what Solomon says; that the earth was created by Wisdom (Proverbs 3:19).

Prophets: (namely) David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and the Apostles Peter and Paul - say (that the earth was created) by the Word (Psalm 33:6, Jeremiah 10:12-13, II Peter 3:5-7), and that the Apostle Paul says elsewhere - (that the earth was created) through Christ (Colossians 1:16). Also the Apostle John says of Christ, as of "the Word of life" (I John 1:1), and the Apostle Paul - as of "Wisdom" (Colossians 2:1-3).

Aside from this, Solomon refers to the beginning of all creation as Wisdom (Proverbs 8:22-23), John refers to (the beginning of all creation as) the Word (John 1:1-14), while the Apostle Paul - refers to Christ (Colossians 1:16), is the same yesterday and today and forever (Hebrews 13:8).

This Word, by the Creator`s command, dwelled in Jacob and in Israel, became its inheritance (the Apocrypha, Ecclesiasticus, Jesus the son of Sirach 24:8-9), revealed through the prophets (Amos 3:7), "the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glory" (I Peter 1:10-11 and Isaiah 48:15-17). But "when the time had fully come" (Galatians 4:4), then "the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14).

This Word purifies the believers (John 15:2) and will judge nonbelievers on the Last Day (John 12:48). "For the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing to the divisions of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intention of the heart" (Hebrews 4:12).

By the incarnation, the Word, becoming flesh, was finally in a human being form, and perfect man.

COMMENT:

In the year 1805, which is 106 years prior to the publication of this The Summary of Dogmas , our Christian Molokan forefathers petitioned the then Tsar of Russia for "recognition" as a Protestant Christian sect. Up to that point in time, our forefathers had already previously been known, for well over 150 years, as "Molokans".

Following are excerpts of their petition to the Tsar of Russia:

July 12, 1805

To our most august, most serene, most merciful King of all Russia, Imperial Majesty, Aleksander Pavlovitch.

From Tambov Province, Borisoglebskoi District, citizen Peter Zhurovtsov, from Voronezhkoi Province, Novo-Khaperskoi District, Makarov Village, Maksim Losev, and from the Village Pesok, Matvei Matilev, petition the following:

Since the early times, we upheld our faith as "Spiritual Christians", in secret. The common people simply call us "Molokans". Founded by our predecessors and forefathers, we believe in the Omnipotent God, Creator of all, and in His only begotten Son, as the Holy Bible teaches us.

It was only promised to His servant Abraham, that the way of redemption will be through Jesus Christ, as foretold by His prophets.

Moses spoke to the people that God will give them a prophet from their own brethren, "Like unto Me, listen to Him." The prophet Isaiah wrote, "A virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and he will be called Immanuel." (Isaiah 7:14)

Isaiah also writes:

"For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counselor, God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6-7)

Other prophets and righteous men wrote in the Holy Scriptures that He (Jesus Christ) existed before creation, and whether in heaven or on the earth, by Him all things were created. He came at the end of that age.

He was incarnated as a man, by birth from the holy virgin Mary. He taught, performed miracles, resurrected the dead, healed the sick, demonstrated His powers and finally, in martyrdom, He died for all. According to the Scriptures, He rose again on the third day. After forty days, He appeared to His disciples and ascended to heaven before their eyes. He is to return again in all His glory to judge the living and the dead.

According to our Christian Molokan forefathers, dating back to the 1600s, the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ was foundational as part of our belief system, as well as our existence as the religious sectarian people known as "Molokans". Everyone today who requires that the name of "Molokan" be attached to their own personal religious identity, need to be aware that this is what our "true" forefathers believed. The fact that "Molokans" believe what is written in the Bible about the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, is "historical".

He doesn't want the Truth, he wants to find fault with those who were fortunate to get out of a cult

This is an assumption that I can not share.

He is sending out this survey on his own.

It was not sent out by the "brotherhood".

The dialog should be among the REAL Christians within molokanism and the 2 book cultists

Which is one of the blessings of .net.

July 25, 2010

Also, he did not share his personal view of the deity of Jesus. He stated that those who established the molokans in russia beleived that "Jesus is the Son of God, and not God". But even this statement is disputable.

Mr. Berokoff is a New Israelite who is a descendant of the Molokans in Russia that you speak of, Mr. Berokoff belongs to a New Israelite Church. Kevin maybe he should wear a sandwich billboard sign stating his dedication to Rudometkin so you would better understand.

This is taken from the Spirit and Life book which Berokoff and his church uphold as divine scripture, God had a beginning; "Which, in this, opened the eyes of my heart to quickly see into this secret concern, how and from where the God of gods Himself first originated and came into being, and equally all spirits eternally subject to Him." MGR Page. 170 verses 1-2

Berokoff the New Israelite upholds the belief that Jesus is a created being that also had a beginning. "Immediately there personally stood before Him a handsome youth of supreme stature, manifestly born and created of Him; by none other than but by GOD His Father. This is why here GOD Himself, first of all, walked up to Him like a real Father to a son, and greeted Him with His image and likeness." MGR Page 174 verses 8-9.

Yes, Andy Berokoff does share his personal beliefs by what he chooses to support, and the Bible says not to even wish unbelievers like Andy Berokoff or his church a good day.

2 John 9-11

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;

11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

LTTBT · July 25, 2010

Just go ahead and fill out the survey, but if you disagree, agree or just have a comment, you should use a biblical reason. Don't just answer with your opinion, back it up with Scripture.

seeking_truth_1 · July 25, 2010

Yup...

Just go ahead and fill out the survey, but if you disagree, agree or just have a comment, you should use a biblical reason. Don't just answer with your opinion, back it up with Scripture.

stevepiv · July 25, 2010

So far, I know of only one other person who has received the survey in the mail.

I posted it on here, because maybe if we do resond with Love- WITH THE BIBLE and share what God has done in each of our life, you never know what can happen.

My prayer is Our testimony and answers would Glorify God and sinners would come to repentance and faith toward Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

July 25, 2010

Just go ahead and fill out the survey, but if you disagree, agree or just have a comment, you should use a biblical reason. Don't just answer with your opinion, back it up with Scripture.

I've been considering posting on this thread because I believe there is a danger to most surveys, you can't control how the survey taker interprets, uses or disseminates your answers, many surveys are specifically designed to get the answers that advance the worldview of those asking the questions. This poll while not professional, shows that a lot of thought was put into designing it, a casual design might put questions in a more random order, but this one takes care to ask question of people who would describe themselves as Molokans, grouped first, and doesn't ask any questions of them that the poll designer knows would bring about a negative response, notice that even though divorced Molokans do exist and some are even accepted in Church, there isn't the ability to answer that you are divorced if you consider yourself Molokan. Then the design takes a different turn when it comes to people who might have left the Molokan Church, the questions become more leading, almost making you look guilty no matter how you answer. It's kind of like asking a married man if he is still beating his wife and requiring them to answer yes or no only. It's possible this person is only looking for truth, but the thought and care that went into the design of this survey seem to indicate otherwise.

LTTBT's response is the best however, Biblical Scripture wil give the survey taker solid truthful answers in case they really are looking for truth, and will make it harder to use the answers as negative reinforcemement if that was the desire.

little koshka · July 25, 2010

So far, I know of only one other person who has received the survey in the mail.

I posted it on here, because maybe if we do resond with Love- WITH THE BIBLE and share what God has done in each of our life, you never know what can happen.

My prayer is Our testimony and answers would Glorify God and sinners would come to repentance and faith toward Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

"word"...

:cool:

July 25, 2010

So far, I know of only one other person who has received the survey in the mail. I posted it on here, because maybe if we do resond with Love- WITH THE BIBLE and share what God has done in each of our life, you never know what can happen.

We did respond with Love, God said Love includes chastisement, and to chastise as strongly as is necessary.

stevepiv · July 25, 2010

So far, I know of only one other person who has received the survey in the mail. I posted it on here, because maybe if we do resond with Love- WITH THE BIBLE and share what God has done in each of our life, you never know what can happen.
We did respond with Love, God said Love includes chastisement, and to chastise as strongly as is necessary.

Praise God!

KevinPolyaNazaroff · July 26, 2010

We did respond with Love, God said Love includes chastisement, and to chastise as strongly as is necessary.

Yes, I agree that love includes chastisement.

But what does it mean "as strongly as is necessary".

Who's strength?

What are the desired results?

Yes, we are to "preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction(2 Tim 4:2 NASB95)".

I am pointing the finger at myself first and foremost.

My first reaction to the survey was not "great patience".

But I am not the measuring stick.

The measuring stick is the Word of God.

24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,

25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 2 Timothy 2:24-25 (NASB95)

32 ‘You shall rise up before the grayheaded and honor the aged, and you shall revere your God; I am the Lord. Leviticus 19:32 (NASB95)

1 Do not sharply rebuke an older man, but rather appeal to him as a father, to the younger men as brothers, 1 Timothy 5:1 (NASB95)

Here the apostle gives rules to Timothy, and in him to other ministers, in reproving. Ministers are reprovers by office; it is a part, though the least pleasing part, of their office; they are to preach the word, to reprove and rebuke, 2 Tim. 4:2. A great difference is to be made in our reproofs, according to the age, quality, and other circumstances, of the persons rebuked; thus, and elder in age or office must be entreated as a father; on some have compassion, making a difference, Jude 22. Now the rule is, 1. To be very tender in rebuking elders—elders in age, elders by office. Respect must be had to the dignity of their years and place, and therefore they must not be rebuked sharply nor magisterially; but Timothy himself, though an evangelist, must entreat them as fathers, for this would be the likeliest way to work upon them, and to win upon them. 2. The younger must be rebuked as brethren, with love and tenderness; not as desirous, to spy faults or pick quarrels, but as being willing to make the best of them. There is need of a great deal of meekness in reproving those who deserve reproof. 3. The elder women must be reproved, when there is occasion, as mothers. Hos. 2:2, Plead with your mother, plead. 4. The younger women must be reproved, but reproved as sisters, with all purity. If Timothy, so mortified a man to this world and to the flesh and lusts of it, had need of such a caution as this, much more have we.

Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

And if someone were to say, "He is not an elder, he is accepts mgr, etc...".

My response would be, "Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.(1 Tim 5:19 NASB)".

Kevin Nazaroff

Edited July 26, 2010 by KevinPolyaNazaroff

stevepiv · July 26, 2010

And if someone were to say, "He is not an elder, he is accepts mgr, etc...".
My response would be, "Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.(1 Tim 5:19 NASB)".

Kevin Nazaroff

Hi Kevin,

Good post.

I DO NOT want to BASH Ds. Andy at all. In my experience with him, he has always been very cordial and respectful to me, and vice-versa.

He did write a book entitled "Molokans Making Decisions"

Part 1 Molokans and The Melting Pot

Part 2 Molokans and War

Part 3 Diary of J.K. Berokoff

If you have a copy of it, I suggest you read it and see for yourself the claims made in this book. Perhaps, I can scan it and make it available to all.

And, would the instruction about receiving an accusation about an "elder" apply if he may NOT be a brother in the Lord.

In the survey Ds. Andy doesn't personally say he denies Jesus is God, but makes a point to acknowledge they believed Jesus is not God.

Thanks.

stevepiv · July 26, 2010

On page 11 of Ds. Andy's book:

"Satan and/or the outside environment accelerated our people to assimilate. in review, assimilation has been brought on by the following: geographical dislocation, hard times, formal education, American traditions and culture, religious attacks, envy, disillusionmnent with the Molokan ways, frustration because of the Russian language, intermarriages and the belief that whatever is "modern" beats "old fashioned". Many Molokan "drop-outs" were initially motivated by one or more of the above."

KevinPolyaNazaroff · July 26, 2010

He did write a book entitled "Molokans Making Decisions"
Part 1 Molokans and The Melting Pot

Part 2 Molokans and War

Part 3 Diary of J.K. Berokoff

If you have a copy of it, I suggest you read it and see for yourself the claims made in this book. Perhaps, I can scan it and make it available to all.

Thanks Steve,

I would love to read it.

If you think it would be ok to scan and post it, that would be good.

Or if not, maybe you can pm or email it to me.

And, would the instruction about receiving an accusation about an "elder" apply if he may NOT be a brother in the Lord.

In the survey Ds. Andy doesn't personally say he denies Jesus is God, but makes a point to acknowledge they believed Jesus is not God.

The verse is 19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder(presbuteros, πρεσβύτερος) except on the basis of two or three witnesses. 1 Timothy 5:19 (NASB95)

The word used for elder is presbuteros(πρεσβύτερος Strongs #4245)

The word has two meanings, age and position.

It appears as you suggested, that it refers to position, rather than age.

Thank you for pointing that out.

In contrast, at the beginning of the chapter, Paul tell Timothy -

"Do not sharply rebuke an older(presbuteros, πρεσβύτερος) man, but rather appeal to him as a father, to the younger men as brothers, 1 Timothy 5:1 (NASB95)"

In this case, Paul is not referring to an elder in a position, but to a man who is older.

Same Greek word, different meaning.

Note that in verse 2, Paul gives a command in regards to the "older" women.

2 the older(presbuteros, πρεσβύτερος) women as mothers, and the younger women as sisters, in all purity. 1 Tim 5:2 NASB

Again, same greek word, (presbuteros, πρεσβύτερος).

He could not possibly be referring to a women in a church position.

His talk in verse one through four references many different people of various ages.

Here is some good in-depth info from the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament -

The peculiar problem of the use of πρεσβύτερος in Judaism and Christianity arises out of the twofold meaning of the word, which can be employed both as a designation of age and also as a title of office. The two meanings cannot always be distinguished with clarity, though age is plainly the only sense in Gn. 18:11 f.; 19:4, 31, 34; 24:1; 35:29 and many other passages.......In the four passages in which πρεσβύτερος occurs here the usage is not quite consistent. In 1 Tm. 5:1 (cf. also v. 2) πρεσβύτερος is clearly a designation of age (oppositum νεώτερος). Nevertheless, this should not be taken as a guide to the meaning in the other references. Elsewhere in the Past. πρεσβύτερος is plainly a terminus technicus for the bearers of an office of leadership in the churches.

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

So, in regards to this, wisdom should be used on our part to "preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction," and "with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,"

Kevin Nazaroff

July 26, 2010

On page 11 of Ds. Andy's book:

"Satan and/or the outside environment accelerated our people to assimilate. in review, assimilation has been brought on by the following: geographical dislocation, hard times, formal education, American traditions and culture, religious attacks, envy, disillusionmnent with the Molokan ways, frustration because of the Russian language, intermarriages and the belief that whatever is "modern" beats "old fashioned". Many Molokan "drop-outs" were initially motivated by one or more of the above."

Why would God send His molokans to such a place? AB believes it was geographical dislocation, then AB believes God sent the molokans here and God was wrong in doing so.

AB, isn't the Millennium going on right now, aren't the loyal molokans like yourself in charge, isn't the Millennium supposed to be in Nikitino, do you know what you believe?

July 27, 2010

AB, isn't the Millennium going on right now, aren't the loyal molokans like yourself in charge, isn't the Millennium supposed to be in Nikitino, do you know what you believe?

Isn't their anyone out there living in Berokoff La La Land who can give answer for this lost soul? C'mon now Berokoffs belly up to the bar, it's time to give answer in good season.

stevepiv · July 29, 2010

AB, isn't the Millennium going on right now, aren't the loyal molokans like yourself in charge, isn't the Millennium supposed to be in Nikitino, do you know what you believe?
Isn't their anyone out there living in Berokoff La La Land who can give answer for this lost soul? C'mon now Berokoffs belly up to the bar, it's time to give answer in good season.

Some of them are reading it, because I just received another package from Ds. Andy with a letter and documentation and why he DOES NOT believe Jesus is God.

July 29, 2010

AB, isn't the Millennium going on right now, aren't the loyal molokans like yourself in charge, isn't the Millennium supposed to be in Nikitino, do you know what you believe?
Isn't their anyone out there living in Berokoff La La Land who can give answer for this lost soul? C'mon now Berokoffs belly up to the bar, it's time to give answer in good season.

Some of them are reading it, because I just received another package from Ds. Andy with a letter and documentation and why he DOES NOT believe Jesus is God.

Post them

July 30, 2010

Some of them are reading it, because I just received another package from Ds. Andy with a letter and documentation and why he DOES NOT believe Jesus is God.

I DO NOT want to BASH Ds. Andy at all. He did write a book entitled "Molokans Making Decisions"
Part 1 Molokans and The Melting Pot

Part 2 Molokans and War

Part 3 Diary of J.K. Berokoff

I suggest you read it and see for yourself the claims made in this book. Perhaps, I can scan it and make it available to all.

In the survey Ds. Andy doesn't personally say he denies Jesus is God, but makes a point to acknowledge they believed Jesus is not God.

Steve, where'za beef, no book, no docs, no signed letter, why not post them on this forum it's been almost a week, you allege he's gone public with his beliefs? I see no problem with you substantiating your assertions. Does AB echo the beliefs of his church prestol and the congregation?

seeking_truth_1 · July 31, 2010

You are an anonymous voice who is demanding something?

Explain how you have any basis or merit to demand anything

To stevepiv...If dz Andy denies who Jesus is, whatever he wrote is worthless unless it's fiction

Some of them are reading it, because I just received another package from Ds. Andy with a letter and documentation and why he DOES NOT believe Jesus is God.

I DO NOT want to BASH Ds. Andy at all. He did write a book entitled "Molokans Making Decisions"
Part 1 Molokans and The Melting Pot

Part 2 Molokans and War

Part 3 Diary of J.K. Berokoff

I suggest you read it and see for yourself the claims made in this book. Perhaps, I can scan it and make it available to all.

In the survey Ds. Andy doesn't personally say he denies Jesus is God, but makes a point to acknowledge they believed Jesus is not God.

Steve, where'za beef, no book, no docs, no signed letter, why not post them on this forum it's been almost a week, you allege he's gone public with his beliefs? I see no problem with you substantiating your assertions. Does AB echo the beliefs of his church prestol and the congregation?

July 31, 2010

You are an anonymous voice who is demanding something? Explain how you have any basis or merit to demand anything

Steve offers to scan and post the book.

Perhaps, I can scan it and make it available to all.

Change your mind about posting anything at all, too hot in the kitchen at home eigh, opened a can of worms did ya? stevepiv, I don't think you should offer to do things and not make good your offer, without documentation it appears that you are spreading malicious rumors?

stevepiv · July 31, 2010

You are an anonymous voice who is demanding something? Explain how you have any basis or merit to demand anything
Steve offers to scan and post the book.
Perhaps, I can scan it and make it available to all.
Change your mind about posting anything at all, too hot in the kitchen at home eigh, opened a can of worms did ya? stevepiv, I don't think you should offer to do things and not make good your offer, without documentation it appears that you are spreading malicious rumors?

I have been very busy at work and haven't changed my mind. Will post as soon as my schedule allows it. The scanner I have needs to go page by page so it takes a while.

stevepiv · July 31, 2010

You are an anonymous voice who is demanding something? Explain how you have any basis or merit to demand anything
Steve offers to scan and post the book.
Perhaps, I can scan it and make it available to all.
Change your mind about posting anything at all, too hot in the kitchen at home eigh, opened a can of worms did ya? stevepiv, I don't think you should offer to do things and not make good your offer, without documentation it appears that you are spreading malicious rumors?

And, NO. Ds. Andy is on this forum now, he has seen this thread and can post if he wants.

July 31, 2010

You are an anonymous voice who is demanding something? Explain how you have any basis or merit to demand anything
Steve offers to scan and post the book.
Perhaps, I can scan it and make it available to all.
Change your mind about posting anything at all, too hot in the kitchen at home eigh, opened a can of worms did ya? stevepiv, I don't think you should offer to do things and not make good your offer, without documentation it appears that you are spreading malicious rumors?

I have been very busy at work and haven't changed my mind. Will post as soon as my schedule allows it. The scanner I have needs to go page by page so it takes a while.

His book is only 25 pages, probably not a book at all but a 51/2"x81/2" pamphlet, one scan would most likely (guessing) copy 2 pages which would make about 12 scans.

Sorry you are short on time, being short on time would mean you probably won't be posting much, so why don't you start with his letter before you go, scan what you can, one page at a time is OK, I'm sure you can find time for one scan can't you Steve? I'm assuming his letter is hand written and that he probably can't type or I'msure AB would have posted the letter himself, he's not afraid is he?

Obviously Novi Roman and the Berokoff's have proven they are not afraid to challenge God, I don't think they have anything to loose anymore.

Oh well! Talk Christ walk Khlyst.

stevepiv · August 2, 2010

Here is one of the documents Ds. Andy sent me last week:

CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE DOCUMENT

It make take a couple of minutes to load.

Edited August 2, 2010 by stevepiv

stevepiv · August 2, 2010

Admin: I have the file saved in a .pdf file. Would you want to put the file on here so it can be discussed easier?

Thanks!

I can e-mail it to you if you would like.

stevepiv · August 3, 2010

I am going to try and reduce the file size tomorrow. That should free up space so more people can download.

stevepiv · August 3, 2010

Here is another way to view the file:

CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND VIEW RELIGIOUS IDEAS

August 3, 2010

Here is another way to view the file:

CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD AND VIEW RELIGIOUS IDEAS

Idolatry up, attendance down, your comments Mr.B.

stevepiv · August 3, 2010

Here is a quote from page 30 FROM DS. ANDY BEROKOFF:

"Another cousin who decades ago dumped Molokanism, once told me "you're not a Christian". This was because I said to her that Jesus is not God (the Creator). Her statement shook me up quite a bit because I always believed Jesus is of divine origin. I admit that my faith in Jesus had been weak because my works were erratic. Nevertheless, at he time about twenty years ago when she thus castigated me, I considered my thoughts and myself as having been somewhat improved. And I had hope that I would be forgiven by God's grace and that I would have eternal life in his Kingdom. The shock that hit me from her broadside was later lessened. I learned that many years before, as a teenager, she was prejudiced to be a Trinitarian by attending church service at a local Bible teaching college."

I hope Ds. Andy is reading this and should really take time when he skazvets this stishok so many times already in his life:

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

And, in regards to what Ds. Andy said here: "I admit that my faith in Jesus had been weak because my works were erratic."

Scripture like Titus 3:4-7 come to mind, which is a prayer that JJV Senior prays quite often, only if they knew what they were praying...

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Also, I read this quote that was passed onto me:

"We are not sanctified by our good works, rather, because God sanctified us, by grace, He produces good works in our lives. In fact, we do not sanctify ourselves any more than we justify ourselves. Sanctification is God’s work, and His work in us produces good works."

On page 4 of Ds. Andy's book you have more insight to how he feels righteousness comes from doing the works:

"How does a "body" get changed to be "flesh"? It occurs when we spoil the body by overindulging in it, and by us living a worldly life. In doing that, we do not live by the Spirit of Christ. Paul tells us how to avoid being "flesh" in 1 Corinthians 2:12 "Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the gifts bestowed on us by God." And, in Galatians 5:16-18, "Live by the Spirit, I say, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. For what the flesh desires is opposed to the Spirit, and what the Spirit desires is opposed to the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to preven you from doing what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the law." ("not subject", that is, to Moses' Law). Also in Romans 8:9-10, "But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ (that is to say by not obeying Christ's Law) does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness." (Righteousness that comes from doing the works as dictated by Christ's law to avoid becoming "flesh").

How can we as humans make our own righteousness?? Doing good deeds does make a person spiritual or righteous. Especially if their intentions are in some way to bribe God or attain righteousness by their "good deeds". They are FILTHY RAGS, and just as bad or worse than your bad deeds.

Here is another thought someone shared with me from the 1600's:

"I have taken all my good deeds, and all my bad, and cast them in a heap before the Lord, and fled from both, and betaken myself to the Lord Jesus Christ, and in him I have sweet peace." -- David Dickson, 1663

stevepiv · August 4, 2010

Added the word in red, to clarify my thought. Thanks.

How can we as humans make our own righteousness?? Doing good deeds does NOT make a person spiritual or righteous. Especially if their intentions are in some way to bribe God or attain righteousness by their "good deeds". They are FILTHY RAGS, and just as bad or worse than your bad deeds.

August 4, 2010

Steve, I don't know what point you are trying to make with excerpts from his book, andy berokoff and his prestol obviously have separated themselves from God with their beliefs, don't know how long it's going for their church to catch on that they have been mislead. I hear their regular sunday morning attendance is pitiful .

Steve you mentioned a letter and the other book (?title), waiting for that, I expect more of the same, but I am curious just the same. BTW I take back the not nice things I thought about you, I didn't think you were going to come through with any info at all, I would like to read the rest of what he sent, this person and his church management are truly evil, no exaggeration there. God Bless

lastinline · August 5, 2010

'stevepiv' date='Aug 3 2010, 04:16 PM' post='67672']
Here is a quote from page 30 FROM DS. ANDY BEROKOFF:

" The shock that hit me from her broadside was later lessened. I learned that many years before, as a teenager, she was prejudiced to be a Trinitarian by attending church service at a local Bible teaching college."

This speaks VOLUMES to me. It further confirms my belief that the root of the majority of the heresy that is present in current Molokanism stems from the heretical "new israel" belief system. Just who is "prejudiced" and why? Huuh?

lastinline (& very prejudiced against all things "new israel")

seeking_truth_1 · August 5, 2010

Herein lies the problem(s)...

The "elders" deny the Deity of Jesus

The "extra book" looks to usurp the Deity of Jesus

This is why I've been a broken record for all these years

You have a man who overtly is telling everyone he's not a Biblical Christian and his views ARE NOT held by a minority in the "leadership"

This is a common thread for all molokan "churches" who have the "extra book" ANYWHERE

The question to the Bible based Christians who still participate is... why are you still there?

The cult of molokanism IS NOT a church for Christians to attend where you will be fed His Word in Spirit and in Truth

Either you are a missionary attempting to share His Love and Light as found in Scripture who should be attending a real Bible teaching Church

OR

You are part of the problem

August 5, 2010

Herein lies the problem(s)...

The "elders" deny the Deity of Jesus

The "extra book" looks to usurp the Deity of Jesus

This is why I've been a broken record for all these years

You have a man who overtly is telling everyone he's not a Biblical Christian and his views ARE NOT held by a minority in the "leadership"

This is a common thread for all molokan "churches" who have the "extra book" ANYWHERE

The question to the Bible based Christians who still participate is... why are you still there?

The cult of molokanism IS NOT a church for Christians to attend where you will be fed His Word in Spirit and in Truth

Either you are a missionary attempting to share His Love and Light as found in Scripture who should be attending a real Bible teaching Church

OR

You are part of the problem

Oh but we don't believe the way they do, with all their prophesies and their three ring church showmanship, besides it's so nice to get all dressed up and be in church with the kids, holding onto our heritage, and the kids are dressed so cute. As long as we don't believe the way they do, God knows what's in our hearts, what could be the harm in preserving our way of worship.

seeking_truth_1 · August 5, 2010

“1 ¶ Some Pharisees and teachers of religious law now arrived from Jerusalem to interview Jesus.

2 "Why do your disciples disobey our age–old traditions?" they demanded. "They ignore our tradition of ceremonial hand washing before they eat."

3 Jesus replied, "And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God?

4 For instance, God says, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks evil of father or mother must be put to death.’

5 But you say, ‘You don’t need to honor your parents by caring for their needs if you give the money to God instead.’

6 And so, by your own tradition, you nullify the direct commandment of God.

7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was prophesying about you when he said,

8 ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away.

9 Their worship is a farce, for they replace God’s commands with their own man–made teachings.’"” (Matthew 15:1-9 NLT)

August 5, 2010

“1 ¶ Some Pharisees and teachers of religious law now arrived from Jerusalem to interview Jesus.
2 "Why do your disciples disobey our age–old traditions?" they demanded. "They ignore our tradition of ceremonial hand washing before they eat."

3 Jesus replied, "And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God?

4 For instance, God says, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks evil of father or mother must be put to death.’

5 But you say, ‘You don’t need to honor your parents by caring for their needs if you give the money to God instead.’

6 And so, by your own tradition, you nullify the direct commandment of God.

7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was prophesying about you when he said,

8 ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away.

9 Their worship is a farce, for they replace God’s commands with their own man–made teachings.’"” (Matthew 15:1-9 NLT)

I never read this before. SBM

stevepiv · August 5, 2010

I reposted this for those who want to read.

I am starting to scan in the other book in.

Thanks for your patience.

Here is one of the documents Ds. Andy sent me last week:

CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE DOCUMENT

It make take a couple of minutes to load.

Edited August 5, 2010 by stevepiv

August 5, 2010

“1 ¶ Some Pharisees and teachers of religious law now arrived from Jerusalem to interview Jesus.
2 "Why do your disciples disobey our age–old traditions?" they demanded. "They ignore our tradition of ceremonial hand washing before they eat."

3 Jesus replied, "And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God?

4 For instance, God says, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks evil of father or mother must be put to death.’

5 But you say, ‘You don’t need to honor your parents by caring for their needs if you give the money to God instead.’

6 And so, by your own tradition, you nullify the direct commandment of God.

7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was prophesying about you when he said,

8 ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away.

9 Their worship is a farce, for they replace God’s commands with their own man–made teachings.’"” (Matthew 15:1-9 NLT)

We know they're wrong but my extended family is there. If we continue to go and repent each time right after, we won't go to hell will we? Do you know of scripture that could answer that question? SBM

KevinPolyaNazaroff · August 5, 2010

We know they're wrong but my extended family is there. If we continue to go and repent each time right after, we won't go to hell will we? Do you know of scripture that could answer that question? SBM

Do you know anybody who has made such a comment?

I doubt it.

Get serious.

It is the love of God through His word that leads people to repentance.

Have you ever tried that?

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? Romans 2:4 NASB

Kevin Nazaroff

August 5, 2010

We know they're wrong but my extended family is there. If we continue to go and repent each time right after, we won't go to hell will we? Do you know of scripture that could answer that question? SBM

Do you know anybody who has made such a comment?

I doubt it.

Get serious.

It is the love of God through His word that leads people to repentance.

Have you ever tried that?

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? Romans 2:4 NASB

Kevin Nazaroff

You sure got snippy all of a sudden, wonder why?

What is the bible definition for repentance?

KevinPolyaNazaroff · August 6, 2010

We know they're wrong but my extended family is there. If we continue to go and repent each time right after, we won't go to hell will we? Do you know of scripture that could answer that question? SBM

Do you know anybody who has made such a comment?

I doubt it.

Get serious.

It is the love of God through His word that leads people to repentance.

Have you ever tried that?

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? Romans 2:4 NASB

Kevin Nazaroff

You sure got snippy all of a sudden, wonder why?

What is the bible definition for repentance?

Maybe I am just a snippy kind of guy.

You didn't answer the question.

Who do you know that has said that they will continue to repent of their molokan "church" attendance in order to avoid hell?

I also posted a bible verse.

Would you care to comment on that before I define the biblical definition of repentance?

Thank You.

Kevin Nazaroff

August 6, 2010

We know they're wrong but my extended family is there. If we continue to go and repent each time right after, we won't go to hell will we? Do you know of scripture that could answer that question? SBM

Do you know anybody who has made such a comment?

I doubt it.

Get serious.

It is the love of God through His word that leads people to repentance.

Have you ever tried that?

Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? Romans 2:4 NASB

Kevin Nazaroff

You sure got snippy all of a sudden, wonder why?

What is the bible definition for repentance?

Maybe I am just a snippy kind of guy.

You didn't answer the question.

Who do you know that has said that they will continue to repent of their molokan "church" attendance in order to avoid hell?

I also posted a bible verse.

Would you care to comment on that before I define the biblical definition of repentance?

Thank You.

Kevin Nazaroff

Why sockerball_mom the name appears in the above post. Committing with full knowledge the same sin habitually is a sign of an unrepentant heart. It's denying Truth

Isa 29:13 The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men. NIV

Titus 1:16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good. NIV

2 Peter 2:21

21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. NKJV

KevinPolyaNazaroff · August 7, 2010

What is the bible definition for repentance?

Repentance is first and foremost a gift of God.

It is not something I can muster up inside of me.

25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. 2 Timothy 2:25-26 NASB

18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.” Acts 11:18 NASB

Repentance is both turning away from sin, and turning toward God.

20 but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance. Acts 26:20 NASB

It is like doing a 180 degree turn.

I was walking with the devil toward sin, but then I turned away from sin and started walking with God toward everlasting peace and joy.

21 solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20:21 NASB

And if there is no evidence of repentance, then something is wrong.

People should see a change.

People should see the fruit of this new direction toward God.

8 “Therefore bear fruits in keeping with repentance... Luke 3:8 NASB

We are not called to produce the fruit, but to bear the fruit that God produces for us.

God provides.

Kevin Nazaroff

August 7, 2010

What is the bible definition for repentance?
Repentance is first and foremost a gift of God. It is not something I can muster up inside of me. Repentance is both turning away from sin, and turning toward God. It is like doing a 180 degree turn. I was walking with the devil toward sin, but then I turned away from sin and started walking with God toward everlasting peace and joy. And if there is no evidence of repentance, then something is wrong. People should see a change. People should see the fruit of this new direction toward God. We are not called to produce the fruit, but to bear the fruit that God produces for us. God provides.

You are not asked to speak, you serve plates, sweep floors, stack benches, go nacroogh, and you want us to believe you are not a part of the cult? Why are you still habitually attending a molokan church?

I feel the same way this person does.

I again ask the question to the "Christians"... Why are you or that book still there?

As I have stated before, Scripture is clear about the call to come out from among pagans. Did you have a meal with these people? Not participating includes every aspect of their "service". According to Scripture, it really is that simple.

What is being done? Your participation screams the same question What exactly does it take? Would you leave if they invoked the name of satan? How about allah? OR Would you stay for the meal to catch up with old friends? you, sir, are a hypocrite.

However, I cannot tolerate and certainly cannot consider as valid "views" that are contrary to core Christian tenets

I cannot validate or approve views contrary to the core tenets of Christianity Much as I cannot "respect" the views of mormons, jw's, molokans or anyone who actively advocates another way of Salvation

Those who advocate the content of the S&L as "inspired by god" contradict the Bible and make God out to be a liar

Participating in un-Biblical rites is not affirmed in Scripture. Does this make sense?

Your participation screams the same question.
What exactly does it take? Would you leave if they invoked the name of satan? How about allah? OR Would you stay for the meal to catch up with old friends? you, sir, are a hypocrite

Why would any "christian" organization allow the s&l to be sold in the Library / Bookstore?
Would you allow your kids to play with a Ouiji board?

It's not a innocent activity just like accepting the s&l as anything else other than from the Pit of Hell

Behind EVERY idol is a demon and you should have nothing to do with such idolatry

The extra book, the language, ceremony, ethic "purity", dress, style of worship etc...have ALL become idols

I can say this because very few would be willing to lay those things aside to reach out to others with the simple Gospel message

These idols are more important than the Truth

This is to those who know the Truth , yet continue to fellowship with those who are liars and deceivers

You are fellowshipping with idolaters and their masters (demons)

There has been subtle compromise for decades and now the debt is coming due

If you call yourself "christian" yet do not adhere to the Bible please stop calling yourself "christian"

ANYONE who denies Jesus for how He says He is and advocates another way of Salvation other than what is prescribes in Scripture IS NOT of God and IS of the spirit of anti-Christ Why would any Christian regularly have ANYTHING to do with that?

ALL MOLOKANS who attend ANY molokan "church" that has the extra book should be EXACTLY like fourvetta and STOP calling themselves Christians There is NO middle ground for a True Christian

KevinPolyaNazaroff · August 7, 2010

You are not asked to speak, you serve plates, sweep floors, stack benches, go nacroogh, and you want us to believe you are not a part of the cult? Why are you still habitually attending a molokan church?

You are painting an incomplete picture.

You sure have a funny way of ministering to people.

Maybe it is just me, but I can taste the rebellion and hurt in your posts.

Why is that?

But most important, do not believe me or anybody else.

All I want you to believe is the bible.

The word of God.

I feel the same way this person does.

You think you are the only one?

We can talk the talk, but what fruit are we bearing?

We can argue with words, but you can't argue with a changed life.(fruit)

Kevin Nazaroff

coffee · August 8, 2010

.

Regarding:

I reposted this for those who want to read.

I am starting to scan in the other book in.

Thanks for your patience.

Here is one of the documents Ds. Andy sent me last week:

CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE DOCUMENT

It make take a couple of minutes to load.

First of all, for those who do not know Mr. Berokoff, he is a very nice person. To those who have ever met the man or have ever spoken to him, it is immediately obvious that Uncle Andy does not reek of the same nauseating stench of haughty arrogance which is so prevalent among so many of his immediate and extended family members.

At the same time, if anyone has actually taken the time to read through what he refers to as his "essay", it is equally obvious that Uncle Andy faithfully adheres to the religious belief system which his family has become known for, as the dominant political elders and church leaders in Freeway Church. To those familiar with the religious politics of Freeway Church, what Uncle Andy shares in "Some Religious Ideas" is nothing new. His religious beliefs are commonly shared among most of Uncle Andy's fellow Rudometkinite contemporaries.

Nevertheless, Uncle Andy should be commended for being willing to put down in writing what he and his fellow Rudometkinite relatives actually believe, and I sincerely thank him for doing so. The manner in which he shares his personal beliefs, with such clear expression of thought, without any instances of other nebulous and vague or esoteric, supposedly "spiritual" commentary is to be applauded.

For anyone who desires to know what the existing political elders and church leaders among what Uncle Andy refers to as today's "Preehoonyee" actually believe, "Some Religious Ideas" is a well written, easy to read, systematic presentation, without any attempt to circumvent or deny some of the very theories and assumptions which they have made, and how they have arrived at their conclusions.

In reading through Uncle Andy's commentary, one cannot help but notice the failure to address the same two issues which have been reviewed here so often on this forum, as well as in private conversations throughout our existing "Molokan" community.

The first is the avoidance by Uncle Andy and his fellow Rudometkinite political elders to address the specific passages in the Holy Scriptures which declare the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The second is the avoidance by Uncle Andy and his fellow Rudometkinite church leaders to address the specific writings of their spiritual hero, which actually verify Rudometkin's multiple marriages, as well as the fact that the Spirit and Life book, which is used as a sacred "Holy Book" in the present day "Molokan" churches, is admittedly an altered and edited version of what Rudometkin actually wrote in his original handwritten letters.

Uncle Andy Berokoff is a very intelligent individual, but as Steve pointed out earlier in this thread, he and his fellow Rudometkinites continue to make such ignorant statements as:

The New Testament does not say that Jesus Christ created the Universe. The Bible tells us our Father in Heaven is the God that created the Universe. (Page 2)

And after they officially made Jesus into God the Creator, they used their converted Jesus to be a war God to fight the Goths. (Page 3)

John's Gospel (which the Trinitarians assume proves that Jesus is God the Creator)….(Page 7)

Why is it that Trinitarians can make me feel ashamed when I say that Jesus is not God the Creator and when I say that "works" are as important as "grace" is for receiving salvation? In reality, can someone believe in God the Creator of the Old Testament and not believe in God's grace? Common sense dictates that a person who believes in our never before seen Creator….(Page 19)

In their alleged obedience to what is written in the Bible, Uncle Andy and his fellow Rudometkinites, who pride themselves in their adherence to the teaching that exists among his family members, that they are required by God to prove their acceptability to enter the Kingdom, not by grace alone, through faith in Christ Jesus alone, but through a combination of God's grace, together with their so-called "works" here on earth, never even acknowledge or respond to the passages in Scripture which proclaim that Jesus is our Creator God, and that He is the physical incarnation of God in human flesh.

From the New Testament of the Bible:

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

(Colossians 1:15-16)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He was in the beginning with God.

All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

(John 1:1-3)

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.

(Colossians 2:8-10)

Uncle Andy and his fellow political elders continue to avoid addressing the fact that our original "church fathers" who were given the nickname of "Molokan" believed in the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, but these Rudometkinites continue to make such silly and embarrassing statements as the following, statements which are verifiably untrue:

We all know that the theory makes Jesus into God the Creator, and that it is a theory that Molokans openly have not supported. (Page 24)

As Kevin posted earlier, it is documented historically that to bear the religious designation of "Molokan" means that one accepts and believes the Biblical truth that Jesus is God in human flesh.

The earliest historical documentation known to exist, which identifies what a "Molokan" believes, is summarized in the Petition to the Tsar of Russia, originally presented in 1805.

Following are random selections from this Petition:

"Your imperial Majesty. We beseech you great Sovereign, to patiently listen to us and what our way of belief consists of."

In reply to this the Sovereign said, "You are permitted to present to us your sect."

Zhuravtsov stood in the middle of the council facing the Emperor and began to speak.

"We believe earnestly and without doubt the word of God spoken from ancient times by the prophets, and after them, the apostles and by the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ.

This is contained in the books of the Holy Scriptures. These books we accept with reverence and according to our ability study them for our salvation.

We truly uphold all that is written in them, having as our foundation the Word of God.

We believe and confess that God is one in essence, existing in 3 persons, which is triune and tri-hypostasis. God did not evolve, but He exists of Himself and sustains all in Himself.

This Savior of the world was none other than the only-begotten Son of God, who at the culmination of the ages by the light of God left heaven and descended to the earth by means of the Holy Spirit incomprehensible unto us.

He was made flesh through the immaculate Virgin Mary, becoming God-man, and lived publicly among humanity."

Knowledge and exposition of the confession of faith of the true spiritual Christians, named Molokans, which consists of the following primary tenets:

"This was first declared to us by our fathers from ancient times and based on the words spoken earlier by the holy prophets and apostles in the Holy Scripture of the Old and New Testaments, which educates all devout Christians.

We look upon the initiator and perfecter of our faith, Jesus.

We believe in one God, that He abides in Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Our testimony to the salvation of our soul is the testimony according to both Testaments: according to the Prophets and the Gospels and the Apostles."

After their exit from the Senate the Sovereign Emperor was pleased to order his secretary Speranski to report in an edict to the police, to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, to count Victor Pavlovitch Kochubei, that he should distribute and proclaim throughout all Russia, to the military and civil governors, to the local officials and the county police chiefs, to permit liberty to this sect of the Spiritual Christians, called Molokans.

If I can take the liberty to condense some of what he has stated, in his zeal to justify his denial of the Deity of Jesus, Uncle Andy adamantly contends that it has been during the last 17 centuries particularly when Christianity has changed Jesus from being a purported creature of God, to being the Creator.

Somehow he and his fellow Rudometkinites fail to see that they are guilty of the same accusation in reverse. In other words, because of the existing historical documentation that "Molokans" believe in the Trinity and in the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, Uncle Andy and his Rudometkinites elders and church leaders have shamelessly attempted to change what it is that a "Molokan" believes, by perpetuating the lie which attempts to label as a so-called "theory" this very foundational Scriptural truth which proclaims that Jesus is our Creator God, the lie which claims that supposedly "Molokans" have never supported such an alleged "theory".

As we read from his own comments, Uncle Andy and his Rudometkinite relatives have based what they believe on their own personal assumptions and theories:

The people that the Roman Catholic Church calls "Church Fathers" probably devised the Trinity as an "answer" to Jewish negativism and resistance regarding Jesus being the Messiah. The answer from the "Church Fathers" was simple – Jesus is the same Creator in whom the Jews believed! It probably naively came into their minds that the Jewish people might believe in Jesus if they accepted the proposition that he was their own Jewish God who temporarily inhabited and spoke through the body of Jesus. (Page 24)

The other hypothesis that Uncle Andy and his Rudometkinite peers propagate among themselves is the theory that the belief in God as a Trinity, that God the Father and God the Word Who became God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all the same One God, is due to the influence of Bible colleges and non Molokan Christian churches.

Another cousin who decades ago dumped Molokanism, once told me "you're not a Christian." This was because I said to her that Jesus is not God (the Creator). Her statement shook me up quite a bit because I always believed that Jesus is of divine origin. I admit that my faith in Jesus had been weak because my works were erratic. Nevertheless, at the time about twenty years ago when she thus castigated me, I considered my thoughts and myself as having been somewhat improved. And I had hope that I would be forgiven by God's grace and that I would have eternal life in his Kingdom. The shock that hit me from her broadside was later lessened. I learned that many years before, as a teenager, she was prejudiced to be a Trinitarian by attending church services at a local Bible teaching college. (Page 30)

The question that goes unanswered by Uncle Andy and the Rudometkinite political elders is which Bible teaching college in peasant and rural Russia, in the year 1805, "prejudiced" our "Molokan" forefathers to petition the Tsar of Russia in order to explain that "Molokans" believed in the Trinity, and that Jesus is God in human flesh?

Which organized church in peasant and rural Russia influenced our "Molokan" church fathers to identify for the Russian government that our religious denomination, our "Molokan" sect, believes in the Triune existence of God in three persons, and that the Lord Jesus Christ is part of that Trinity?

The other issue that Uncle Andy brings up, regarding the writings in the Spirit and Life book, has been covered very thoroughly on this forum:

Lately, some of our church brothers have been circulating strong statements negative to the Spirit and Life. They harbor various degrees of dislike and contempt for MGR in particular. From time to time, they make direct and indirect critical comments about him to sow doubt among unwary Molokans. Here are several examples. MGR calls himself "King of Spirits;" He says that he is the "Messiah" of New Israel; He says he "suffers" for the people; He says that he will be the "king" in the Millennium. He believed himself to be an equal to Jesus Christ; He was an ignorant and inconsistent bigot. While Jesus never used pen and paper, MGR wrote at great length about himself. He seemed to believe that the beginning of his kingdom was imminent in his lifetime, but it wasn't. He had no right to over-amplify the ideas in the Book of Revelation. He fostered prayers for the dead. Those are some of the criticisms of MGR, but the most outrageous of all complaints is the slanderous one that accuses him of having more than one wife. For some of these complaints some Molokans want to remove the book Spirit and Life from their church table.

With a little more thought, some of his critics might re-evaluate their negative prejudice and misunderstanding about MGR. (Pages 34 - 35)

It is a shame that Uncle Andy and his fellow Rudometkinite elders do not take the time to give answer other than the typical denial, which as we can read, reflects the attitude that as long as they are the political church leaders who are in charge of their congregations, and because they personally have chosen to believe the myths and exaggerations about Rudometkin which have been handed down in their families for the past 150 years, they are going to continue including Rudometkin's heresies in the Spirit and Life book as part of their religious belief system, and as part of their worship of God.

The conclusion to all of this is that if Uncle Andy Berokoff and his family of fellow Rudometkinites are going to continue denying and rejecting that which is documented historically, specifically that with regard to the religious identity of "Molokan", someone who is a "Molokan" indeed believes in the Triune existence of God, as One God existing in Trinity, with three persons all existing as the same One God, and that the Lord Jesus Christ is on part of that Trinity, as God Who came down from heaven to earth to inhabit human flesh, in order to be the only acceptable sacrifice which can ever possibly erase clean the sins of mankind, then they should stop referring to themselves as "Molokans" and instead use the name which Rudometkin himself bore so proudly from his own Khlysty forefathers, as "New Israel".

.

August 11, 2010

Brother Steve,

I have read most of this thread and when I downloaded the .pdf book I scrolled down quickly and it emediatly went to Dz. Andy's mis-translated version of Matthew 6:33. "Strive" instead of "seek" he used. One will never understand or even hear the True Gospel if it's built around such an error.

I love Dz. Andy and have the desire to to as we talked about earlier and follow thorugh as God would want. He Truly understands the errors in war and other important issues but from his writings Dz. Andy and many others who have become over educated in "out-side" writings ( Any thing other than the 66 book of The Holy Bible). The Holy Spirit gets lost when studied with a fleshly microscope. One can never "strive" their way unto Salvation just as one cannot educate themselves unto Salvation.

I see some hasteful improper comments on here from some that seem to really want to take a person down further than they may allready be and for that reason I am not going to converse on here nor will I add anything that may end up being positive or negative. Little Koska and LBBTB used wonderful words to give support towards a Christian way to go about handling this as well as Kevin. Others want just to gossip and through that not even see that Dz. Andy truly may just be doing what he feels is needed from his eyes and does not appear to be doing more than that. I dissagree with his gospelddd

Because of that lets pray for this man and follow God's instructions. If them that only want to play and gossip and at the same time show know care for the souls of the lost, they to can pray to God to instruct them with what to do.

I will talk to you soon Brother!

Great to see you LK :-) Your encouragement as not ceased!!

Paul

stevepiv · August 11, 2010

I know that Ds. Andy is reading this forum and maybe he will take some time to watch these videos. Along with the man who is helping Ds. Andy with the computer.

After watching these videos, the similarities between molokanism and mormonism are there. Both, are far off base of BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY, yet as is mentioned on here, we Christians should be wintessing and praying for them, preaching The Gospel of Jesus Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

Way of The Master- About Mormonism--PART# 1 of 3

Way of The Master- About Mormonism-- PART# 2 of 3

Way of The Master- About Mormonism-- PART# 3 of 3

August 11, 2010

I know that Ds. Andy is reading this forum and maybe he will take some time to watch these videos. Along with the man who is helping Ds. Andy with the computer.

After watching these videos, the similarities between molokanism and mormonism are there. Both, are far off base of BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY, yet as is mentioned on here, we Christians should be wintessing and praying for them, preaching The Gospel of Jesus Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

Add to that list the Seventh Day Adventist Church. You will find the chronological dates of Rudometkin, LDS's Joseph Smith, SDA's Ellen G. White very interesting. All proclaim to be "The" God sent Savior, only through their church can Salvation be attained. LDS,SDA information source is Wikipedia.

1830 approx. Joseph Smith announced that the angel Moroni had given him a book of golden plates, containing a religious history of ancient American peoples. Smith claimed the book was written in an unknown language, which he translated using seer stones given with the plates.

1840 approx. The Seventh-day Adventist Church is the largest of several "Adventist" groups which arose from the Millerite movement of the 1840s in upstate New York, a phase of the Second Great Awakening. Miller predicted on the basis of D****l 8:14-16 and the "day-year principle" that Jesus Christ would return to Earth on October 22, 1844. When this did not happen, most of his followers disbanded and returned to their original churches.

1858 approx. Gods new plans for salvation and the end of the earth during the 19th century are revealed to M.G. Rudometkin

stevepiv · August 12, 2010

Another false religion way off based of Biblical Christianity:

Way of The Master- About Jehovah Witness-- PART # 1 of 2

Way of The Matster- About Jehovah Witness-- PART # 2 of 2

August 19, 2010

Steve, I don't know what point you are trying to make with excerpts from his book, andy berokoff and his prestol obviously have separated themselves from God with their beliefs, don't know how long it's going for their church to catch on that they have been mislead. I hear their regular sunday morning attendance is pitiful .

Steve you mentioned a letter and the other book (?title), waiting for that, I expect more of the same, but I am curious just the same. BTW I take back the not nice things I thought about you, I didn't think you were going to come through with any info at all, I would like to read the rest of what he sent, this person and his church management are truly evil, no exaggeration there. God Bless

You never came through with this information, why not, you have time to post in other threads?

stevepiv · August 19, 2010

Steve, I don't know what point you are trying to make with excerpts from his book, andy berokoff and his prestol obviously have separated themselves from God with their beliefs, don't know how long it's going for their church to catch on that they have been mislead. I hear their regular sunday morning attendance is pitiful .

Steve you mentioned a letter and the other book (?title), waiting for that, I expect more of the same, but I am curious just the same. BTW I take back the not nice things I thought about you, I didn't think you were going to come through with any info at all, I would like to read the rest of what he sent, this person and his church management are truly evil, no exaggeration there. God Bless

You never came through with this information, why not, you have time to post in other threads?

My scanner takes FOREVVER. I must not have the right software or something. Eventually I will post it. Ds. Andy himself requested that I post ALL the documents he sent me.

If you can do it faster than me, I would be more than happy to forward the documents to you by mail.

stevepiv · August 19, 2010

Steve, I don't know what point you are trying to make with excerpts from his book, andy berokoff and his prestol obviously have separated themselves from God with their beliefs, don't know how long it's going for their church to catch on that they have been mislead. I hear their regular sunday morning attendance is pitiful .

Steve you mentioned a letter and the other book (?title), waiting for that, I expect more of the same, but I am curious just the same. BTW I take back the not nice things I thought about you, I didn't think you were going to come through with any info at all, I would like to read the rest of what he sent, this person and his church management are truly evil, no exaggeration there. God Bless

You never came through with this information, why not, you have time to post in other threads?

And, really, you have NO right or authority to speak up and challenge what I post and what not. If I post them in a day, week, month, year....that's what I will do. I never gave a timeline of when I would post it or scan it.

Give me your name and address and I will forward them to you, as I mentioned.

August 19, 2010

And, really, you have NO right or authority to speak up and challenge what I post and what not.

Then you don't belong in this forum.

I will go on record to say that I am currently attending a class for "Anger Management". It's held at a Bible Based Christian Church and the class is very helpful and affordable. A few months back I was also seeing a counselor to help talk about the feelings and emotions I was going through

You must have dropped out of your anger management class. Only YOU can have feelings and emotions, from reading one of your latest posts you don't allow others to have them, double minded thinking.

Give me your name and address and I will forward them to you, as I mentioned.

You have no credibility with me because you revert between supporting the faith of Christianity, the molokan religion and new israel. A skazatsil's religious pride will do that.

stevepiv · August 24, 2010

And, really, you have NO right or authority to speak up and challenge what I post and what not.
Then you don't belong in this forum.

You can challenge what I post, I was referring to you questioning my posting in other forums and not scanning the documents quickly enough for you.

I will go on record to say that I am currently attending a class for "Anger Management". It's held at a Bible Based Christian Church and the class is very helpful and affordable. A few months back I was also seeing a counselor to help talk about the feelings and emotions I was going through
You must have dropped out of your anger management class. Only YOU can have feelings and emotions, from reading one of your latest posts you don't allow others to have them, double minded thinking.

You sure posted back with a loaded weapon. You can have emotions and feelings. I didn't drop out of any class, I am a work in process, sanctification and mortification of the sinful members.

Give me your name and address and I will forward them to you, as I mentioned.
You have no credibility with me because you revert between supporting the faith of Christianity, the molokan religion and new israel. A skazatsil's religious pride will do that.

I have NOT been to a molokan new israel regular morning church in over a year, and the last time I "skazval" was in November or December and that WAS MY LAST TIME FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

My prayer is to have NO religious pride AT ALL. Religion does NOT save, only True Repentance and True Faith in The Lord Jesus Christ, both are Gifts of God, not of ourselves.

Now, can we stop bringing up that with me, I am in regular fellowship in a Bible Based Church, also attending a Home Bible Study, and truly Loving The Brethren.

There is NO DESIRE to go back into religious cult bondage. I can minister to molokans WITHOUT subjecting myself or my family to the "other" (NON-BIBLICAL) gospel that is preached by adherents of the molokan new israel religion.

As I mentioned, if someone has a better scanner or way of scanning these documents, please let me know.

Thanks!

seeking_truth_1 · August 24, 2010

Awesome and Amen!

I have NOT been to a molokan new israel regular morning church in over a year, and the last time I "skazval" was in November or December and that WAS MY LAST TIME FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

My prayer is to have NO religious pride AT ALL. Religion does NOT save, only True Repentance and True Faith in The Lord Jesus Christ, both are Gifts of God, not of ourselves.

Now, can we stop bringing up that with me, I am in regular fellowship in a Bible Based Church, also attending a Home Bible Study, and truly Loving The Brethren.

There is NO DESIRE to go back into religious cult bondage. I can minister to molokans WITHOUT subjecting myself or my family to the "other" (NON-BIBLICAL) gospel that is preached by adherents of the molokan new israel religion.

As I mentioned, if someone has a better scanner or way of scanning these documents, please let me know.

Thanks!

coffee · August 31, 2010

.

I am a work in process, sanctification and mortification of the sinful members.

I have NOT been to a molokan new israel regular morning church in over a year, and the last time I "skazval" was in November or December and that WAS MY LAST TIME FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

My prayer is to have NO religious pride AT ALL. Religion does NOT save, only True Repentance and True Faith in The Lord Jesus Christ, both are Gifts of God, not of ourselves.

Now, can we stop bringing up that with me, I am in regular fellowship in a Bible Based Church, also attending a Home Bible Study, and truly Loving The Brethren.

There is NO DESIRE to go back into religious cult bondage. I can minister to molokans WITHOUT subjecting myself or my family to the "other" (NON-BIBLICAL) gospel that is preached by adherents of the molokan new israel religion.

God Bless you!

When my wife and I were members of The First Re-Formed Christian Molokan Church, at our gatherings where possible non-Christians were present, our minister would often conclude his sermons with the exhortation and invitation that once someone makes the decision to accept Jesus, to believe in Him according to all of the claims about Christ that are written in the Bible, once you become a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, you will never be sorry.

In our "Molokan" community, making this kind of decision to leave behind the existing false religious practices that one has been born and raised to be a part of, to become a follower of Jesus, can sometimes be difficult due to the very real emotional ties that exist between immediate and extended family members and longtime friends.

Having said this, my wife and I have found that God is faithful and true to His written Word in the Scriptures, and we have found the following passage applicable, without fail, to our own situation and personal family circumstances.

Jesus said, "Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for My sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life." (Mark 10:29-30)

The same decision that you have made today, we made our decision almost 30 years ago, and the Lord has blessed us with a new church family, and He has blessed our children to grow up and find mates who are fellow Jesus followers, and our grandchildren are being raised in a spiritual environment where one does not have to "navigate" the attempt by the political elders and church leaders to "blend" Rudometkin's heresies in the extra-Biblical Spirit and Life book, with the truth of the Holy Scriptures.

For the sake of your children, and their souls, as well as those of you and your wife, be encouraged to take seriously your role as the spiritual head of your household, and to share your testimony with others.

God bless you!

.

stevepiv · September 1, 2010

Thank you for the prayers, blessings and kind words. The Lord has refreshed us and encouraged us many times. All Glory To God!

LTTBT · September 1, 2010

Thank you for the prayers, blessings and kind words. The Lord has refreshed us and encouraged us many times. All Glory To God!

Faith not tested is not faith at all.

September 3, 2010

A few weeks ago a few of us went to the Elder who wrote this surveys’ house and another younger elder who joined him. Both are very very very prominent and equally yoked by the tradition of man, on the same path that only leads back and forth to their church gatherings where they are taught to do only what your elders tell you and what their so called Molokan Fore Fathers did. The True Molokan Forefathers where evangelical Christians doing what evangelical Christians do; Spreading the Gospel of God. They spoke the same language we here in America speak. The language we know and in church a Pastor, Elder etc... Speaks the language their flock knows. We are made in the image of God, not in the image of our forefathers. They also did what God called them to do according to the words of Jesus Christ guided by the Holy Spirit. I respect these forefathers and mothers that loved Jesus Christ and are at piece knowing they are with God with all the saints and if Heaven allows us to meet them at our passing; I look forward to giving them a spiritual greeting with a kiss and a huge hug! I look forward to all them from around the world who passed from this death to the next life! Everyone will be Brothers and Sisters with the same Father!

These two men laughed and mocked the Jesus Christ in the Bible (The older one did more) because they do not know Him nor does He them. Their hearts are not soft like their smiles and if God so chooses them, my prayer is that their hearts will be softened just a fraction of those smiles. They rely on Pominkee by “Jesus said to ask for anything in My Name and you shall receive it.” Babies are written in the book of life and The Holy Spirit is blown into them or something like that.

The older Molokan man has searched and searched for a Bible Translation for Matthew 6:33 and he had an annotated version and I cannot find it at the moment on line but it is just like this NRS Version;

New Revised Standard (NRS)

Matthew 6:33

33 But strive first for the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

The place they go a worship their god only allows Russian and The Russian Bible translates to “seek.”

They said the Holy Bible is completely full of mistakes (Not Translations) but The Holy Bible as being The True Word of God as it is. They said it was wrong or something in that order. If I miss-quote a bit, its close enough and ALL they spoke was not of Jesus but only against the way others worship or learn or pray “impromptu.”

I was not planning on posting again about that visit but the reality is that them and ALL Religious men and women around the world will go straight into hell and are not getting closer to Jesus Christ but instead fighting to preserve “tradition.” Just as tradition eventually fades and dies, so do them who die with it being their master. There is only One Way, and One Truth- All, else, will simply end up in hell along with them that follow the other ways.

They feel us that have left and those in the past hate the traditions. They are incorrect their ears only hear each other hearts.

They read these posts and they pull in closer. All they want is people to not leave and to just go through their ritualistic dung stuff and go home. Also, to do good deeds when possible, assimilate to the world 1000% except during their worship. They do not care that the youth grows closer and closer to the devil generation after generation, as long as they remain in the “faith.” The older man’s last comment was in the way of “I sure hope so,” when asked if he is going to Heaven. Side note. On the way in we kissed as normally would always have. They were dressed in casual clothes as we were. No Bibles on the table in the form of Alter. On the way, they treated us great, said to come back etc… very clearly refrained from kissing as it would have been awkward for us as the Bible speaks against that (as far as a Holy greeting).

God’s not into nice people being polite during the mocking of His Son and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

It’s not even about the spirit and life book anymore. It’s simply the devil having a blast waiting for them to gather week after week and go through the same man made rituals they say that they need to “keep their focus.” One man said he cannot pray any other way except from reciting prayers of other people. They both need it to “keep their focus.” It’s not even about mgr. anymore. He is dead and gone and he cannot be to blame for what the devil is doing today in those buildings. Mgr will be accountable as we all will be and as them lost in the cults will be, but we will see Jesus and He will see us!. If they know not Jesus, they stand alone, naked. Not a father or grandfather of forefather to be their council. There will be no pamosnikee, Peevcee, Scazatyelee around to cover their backs. On that day, they too till will see them that they cast away or them that they say are of the devil and the Christians they called “of the world”with Jesus Christ Himself welcoming them home. Those in religion can only strive to do one last good deed, that instantly pulls them into their fate and the devil himself and all his different schemes will be all they recognize and in that eternal pit, then will they see where those deeds got them!

Believers have this God given promise as He spoke unto the pages now in The Book of Hebrews 9

27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

They feel Clark St. is a cult but they themselves are not. They called us “up-starts” (The older man did) and said we are nothing new and we are just like Clark St. They said anything we said was nothing new, but just the same stuff over and over, and we said “yes – for 2000 years” and pointed to the Bible. The Clarker belief is only more pure and just a sharper pencil. The devil is just that, the devil. Some are just nearer to him and further from God. Hell is just that, hell. Hell is real, and either a person is God’s or not. No middle grounds with second choices. The devil can use the dullest pencil that can sharpen up really good. ALL pencils burn!

Honestly, these men and women around the world that have fallen into the trap of religion do not need our prayers as they do not want them. Only God can change them and He has and does and will until His sheep are safely With Him.

Also, these two older men,they heard the Gospel that day (They wanted to record us but we said no reason to, as they can call anytime.) and they are now accountable on that Day of Judgment.

Paul mentions about him being all things to all men, Paul did NOT worship with them and personally I do not even know if he ever even met many that God was speaking to at that time (Colossians Below) through him. We will never meet Paul here on earth but God’s Words are for all and any times and all and any peoples as we sinners are just as them back then were. With-out the Holy Spirit in-dwelling in each and every one of us, we too remain worshipping our own little gods and doing things to please ourselves or things to try and please the wrong people. I thought the best days of my life were when the devil was my best friend. God works in all of us believers in ways that man cannot understand. Once God The Father allows us to see Jesus no matter how long and how hard it may be, we know (All of 1st John) that the devil has no chance and he can do all he wants and, we give in to him, but God promises ways out. Going back to “all things to all men,” God does not mean to party with partiers and fornicate in pornos’ to reach the lost. It ALSO does not mean to be religious with the religious! I would go in the darkest bar and party as hard as possible as in my past before I would participate in what Molokonism of today is, again. They call it God’s house and if Jesus Himself were here He would just do as He did to the Pharisees. He did not waste His time on what was not His own. Molokans of today do not know or want Jesus because they too will lose all that they spent their lives building and striving for. They are getting their rewards now. They call them that are God’s ne-nash and rightly so. They are not-there’s! Ne-nash are God’s! God bless them who have been cast out and also to them that were born being a Ne-nash and free of the worst bondage there is! My God, reach out and touch the most unwanted person in a Molokan of Today church and let them see how fortunate you created them, as not one of them, but as your Own! Molokans of today hate what is the dearest to you. Thank You!!!

This is not a Molokan bash but a prayer call or something for God to allow their hearts to open up before they parish just as them they learned from. What they hear or read from believers, they pull away from. May God, just quickly spare His Own, lost, in today’s Molokanism and all false religions and cults and put something or someone in their life to knock them to the ground as You did Saul, if that’s what it takes. Please bring them to their Spiritual knees that face you, Christ, on the Cross so they can see their blood seeping from Your pours. So they can see You, God! Let them see their own wrists pierced hanging on that Cross where you as Man, took their places as you did ours! What-ever it takes, God, so that they will not see you as a ritual, but what You did for them and everyone everywhere so all Yours will never have to see your wrath and remain in torment far from you to recall every tiny sin they committed and endless amounts of their “filthy rags,” hanging in front of their face. Let them see their sin and how You Alone paid that price-once and for all! Many of them everywhere following THAT devil look sparkling to the lost. Blind the innocent lost sheep following along with your radiance to bring them to you!

To them who know Jesus and think that it’s ok to worship with them that Jesus knows not. Flee!

The devil looks beautiful in his territory-Flee and do not look back!

I was reading something that I pasted below that I came across via Internet yesterdayand I wanted to share it. I just posted it and the Verses from The King James Version with no comments. I have never read these Words or Book and they prompted to post the above.

“Colossian heresy “From the Internet

1. A belief system, called a "hollow and deceptive philosophy"(2:8).

2. Tradition-based, "depends on human tradition"(2:8, 22).

3. Elemental spiritual forces underlie the system (2:8).

4. Not Christ-centered, the teaching doesn't "depend on ... Christ"(2:8).

5. Food restrictions and Jewish "holy days" are involved (2:16).

6. Ascetic disciplines are encouraged (2:18, 23).

7. Angel worship is central (2:18).

8. Visionary experiences are touted (2:18).

9. Pride characterizes the proponents (2:18).

10. Losing connection with Christ is the result (2:19).

11. Rule-keeping is urged (2:20-23).

12. "Fullness" language (1:19; 2:9, 10) suggests that a "fullness" of spiritual experience couldn't be found in Christ alone. The vocabulary is found in both Gnosticism and Stoicism.

13. Circumcision is advocated (2:11, 13; 3:11) -- perhaps.

14. Christ is being denigrated -- perhaps -- though this may reflect Paul's cure more than the active teaching of his opponents

(These 3 above were unclear)

Colossians 2

1For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;

2That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

3In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

4And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

5For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

20Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21(Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

23Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

There is one way! If it’s not dying to yourself then turn around! Life is real and it DOES end!

September 21, 2010

Can someone please share this with Andy and John Barakoff.??

This post is not to justify or compromise in the beliefs that Andy and John shared with us when I and two others visited with them. It is primarily for the reason to bring out the mistake and disobedience to God, and them that I offended.

Andy and John Berakoff, I do sincerely apologize for posting openly after I truthfully gave you my word that I and the others that afternoon I would not do just that. To you both and to the other two that were with me that on day, I apologize and do forgive me for going back on my words that day.

I personally said nothing during that conversation that I would not have wanted recorded. I mentioned that day that as, we were there in truth to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I still keep open the offer to visit and share the Good News of Jesus Christ at any time as we all three offered that afternoon with Andy and John.

I want to add a few things of clarity in regards to the letter sent to me and the others after Andy and John were notified of my post. There are many many issues that could be addressed on here but I will address only a couple at this time on here. Again, as I once said before towards starting of this topic was that certain issues and discussions should be kept to personal letters or left upon meetings in real life or kept in confidentiality.

1. You both highly denied Jesus Christ as Being God; the Pharisees clearly did this as they mocked Jesus Christ and eventually killed him.

2. On this letter, again, I am speaking only for myself. I very openly and clearly shared my extreme pacifism against, ALL wars and capital punishment and abortion etc... As they are ALL murder and against what Jesus Christ died for and completely against what the Holy Spirit teaches and guides His followers to do and to not do. (The True Molokan fore-fathers believed this too and it’s not because of them that I am pacifist but because of the Words of Jesus Christ in the Holy Bible and of The Guidance and Conviction of the Holy Spirit).

3. I am not kosher (as our forefather as being a gentile saved by God’s Grace I was never bound to that Jewish Law of old.)

4. Ne-Nash is not a Godly term yet man-made and again as the Bible clearly states in the New-Testament, God only wants Christians to marry other Christians. He wants His children not to be un-equally yoked with un-believers. No man or woman since the death of Christ was bound to marriage “of their own” etc… Man or fore-fathers cannot change what is of God.

5. Again, in the latest letter even though I and the others claimed to be against war (which is true) but says” I am just like other 99% of my fellow Christians.” Who worship a war god. On this same line Andy Berakoff compares The Jesus Christ in the Bible to be “The smartest, wisest, fairest, holiest and most righteous person who ever walked on the face of the earth.”

(Side Note- This makes Jesus Christ, God The Saviour ALSO in the need of a savior if He is just a ‘Good Man.’

Again, Andy and John, please forgive me for breaking my promise and sharing the contents of the conversation as I really am sorry.

I personally am not “offended” by your survey but I see clearly that what was started in regular mail should have been kept there especially when your motives are simple and were not meant to personally hurt anyone.

Andy and John, if you would ever like to talk again as we did on the Saturday please call me. If you call my folks out of The Molokan directory they will give my cell number. I just do not want to post it on here. OR, please share with us, openly on here as you desire. Maybe, the survey will get more responses on here? I am not sure, but more is said openly on here than in real life as many remain unanimous. Many Molokans elders as extremely concerned about the way the religion is going. I brought this up at that meeting, that I believe many people would attend a meeting as such if it were kept as a casual with no formal order to follow except for people to share their hearts. In my opinion, this would be the only way for anything to ever change if God so desires it to. Many are intimidated by the ways of the elders and or by the non-ablilty to get real Bible answers on many many issues.

But please, if we do talk more let’s keep it all about Jesus Christ. I am not for war; I do not go to Calvary or any church gathering at this time because of having problems finding a church that does not support war. I have thrown TV out of my life and I do my best to learn from The Holy Spirit Himself. I am not against the Russian Language or any other Languages. I am not against people loving their traditions etc… BUT, when ANYTHING, becomes a hindrance and Idol or a God I will NOT attend that gathering when it is called “holy.” This is NOT only about Molokanism of today, but is about Mormonism and ALL other belief systems that have ANOTHER book or another ‘man’ in the picture.

We as humans who are saved or say we are saved should be willing to do anything to share this Saving Grace with ALL other peoples, anywhere. For any people to say they believe in the Jesus Christ in the Bible but at the same time , because of their religion, they cannot worship or marry others that also believer in Same Jesus Christ is laughing and Mocking Jesus Christ.

ANY other faith system apart from the 66 Books of the Holy Bible is a Mock to Jesus Christ of the highest type. Anything ADDED as an extra book or revelation or special thing that keeps a group of people as thinking they are more special, or “the chosen” people of God is a direct laugh and Mock and death too, just as them that killed Jesus Christ on the Cross did.

Jesus Christ died for ALL to come to repentance, even them who nailed Him to the Cross that day as we are no better than they are unless God reveals His Grace to us.

Man cannot do anything to save Himself. Religion is Man trying to reach God and impress Him hoping that He will in turn save them who are part of that religion.

Please read the Gospels and the Book of Acts and Pauls’ and the Other’s letters then The Old Testament with NO other “religious” books attached as reference that will atler who Jesus Christ /God is.

A good start would be with beginning with The Gospel of John beginning by simple asking God for your understanding of who He is in comparison to who we are. (Not as Molokans but as man and woman dead in sin). If God is trying to reach out to you personally, turn around and ACCEPT THAT invitation.

Paul W. Orloff

seeking_truth_1 · September 22, 2010

In reading this a few things stand out

Obviously betraying a confidence is not a good thing

However, why would anyone want to hide a discussion about Jesus & the Bible

That shouldn't be anything to keep quiet

The other issue is this...

I see clearly that what was started in regular mail should have been kept there especially when your motives are simple and were not meant to personally hurt anyone.

This I cannot agree with

The motives were clearly biased trying to be "objective" making a clear differentiation between his version of molokanism and everyone else who didn't agree being on the outside

It was not in any way, shape or form scholarly

This alleged "poll" cannot be taken as objective especially ridiculous "questions", made in abject ignorance, like the following:

"I prefer to worship while sitting in comfortable seats to hear a stirring sermon made by a Bible college graduate who was taught how to organize and deliver his/her informational and/or motivational speeches"

What the question IS SAYING is "ne-nash" Churches are taught by women who deliver motivational speeches where the molokans somehow have it right

The other "questions" are pretty all the same, born out of pride, in an attempt to justify the cult and nothing more

Can someone please share this with Andy and John Barakoff.??

This post is not to justify or compromise in the beliefs that Andy and John shared with us when I and two others visited with them. It is primarily for the reason to bring out the mistake and disobedience to God, and them that I offended.

Andy and John Berakoff, I do sincerely apologize for posting openly after I truthfully gave you my word that I and the others that afternoon I would not do just that. To you both and to the other two that were with me that on day, I apologize and do forgive me for going back on my words that day.

I personally said nothing during that conversation that I would not have wanted recorded. I mentioned that day that as, we were there in truth to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I still keep open the offer to visit and share the Good News of Jesus Christ at any time as we all three offered that afternoon with Andy and John.

I want to add a few things of clarity in regards to the letter sent to me and the others after Andy and John were notified of my post. There are many many issues that could be addressed on here but I will address only a couple at this time on here. Again, as I once said before towards starting of this topic was that certain issues and discussions should be kept to personal letters or left upon meetings in real life or kept in confidentiality.

1. You both highly denied Jesus Christ as Being God; the Pharisees clearly did this as they mocked Jesus Christ and eventually killed him.

2. On this letter, again, I am speaking only for myself. I very openly and clearly shared my extreme pacifism against, ALL wars and capital punishment and abortion etc... As they are ALL murder and against what Jesus Christ died for and completely against what the Holy Spirit teaches and guides His followers to do and to not do. (The True Molokan fore-fathers believed this too and it's not because of them that I am pacifist but because of the Words of Jesus Christ in the Holy Bible and of The Guidance and Conviction of the Holy Spirit).

3. I am not kosher (as our forefather as being a gentile saved by God's Grace I was never bound to that Jewish Law of old.)

4. Ne-Nash is not a Godly term yet man-made and again as the Bible clearly states in the New-Testament, God only wants Christians to marry other Christians. He wants His children not to be un-equally yoked with un-believers. No man or woman since the death of Christ was bound to marriage "of their own" etc… Man or fore-fathers cannot change what is of God.

5. Again, in the latest letter even though I and the others claimed to be against war (which is true) but says" I am just like other 99% of my fellow Christians." Who worship a war god. On this same line Andy Berakoff compares The Jesus Christ in the Bible to be "The smartest, wisest, fairest, holiest and most righteous person who ever walked on the face of the earth."

(Side Note- This makes Jesus Christ, God The Saviour ALSO in the need of a savior if He is just a 'Good Man.'

Again, Andy and John, please forgive me for breaking my promise and sharing the contents of the conversation as I really am sorry.

I personally am not "offended" by your survey but I see clearly that what was started in regular mail should have been kept there especially when your motives are simple and were not meant to personally hurt anyone.

Andy and John, if you would ever like to talk again as we did on the Saturday please call me. If you call my folks out of The Molokan directory they will give my cell number. I just do not want to post it on here. OR, please share with us, openly on here as you desire. Maybe, the survey will get more responses on here? I am not sure, but more is said openly on here than in real life as many remain unanimous. Many Molokans elders as extremely concerned about the way the religion is going. I brought this up at that meeting, that I believe many people would attend a meeting as such if it were kept as a casual with no formal order to follow except for people to share their hearts. In my opinion, this would be the only way for anything to ever change if God so desires it to. Many are intimidated by the ways of the elders and or by the non-ablilty to get real Bible answers on many many issues.

But please, if we do talk more let's keep it all about Jesus Christ. I am not for war; I do not go to Calvary or any church gathering at this time because of having problems finding a church that does not support war. I have thrown TV out of my life and I do my best to learn from The Holy Spirit Himself. I am not against the Russian Language or any other Languages. I am not against people loving their traditions etc… BUT, when ANYTHING, becomes a hindrance and Idol or a God I will NOT attend that gathering when it is called "holy." This is NOT only about Molokanism of today, but is about Mormonism and ALL other belief systems that have ANOTHER book or another 'man' in the picture.

We as humans who are saved or say we are saved should be willing to do anything to share this Saving Grace with ALL other peoples, anywhere. For any people to say they believe in the Jesus Christ in the Bible but at the same time , because of their religion, they cannot worship or marry others that also believer in Same Jesus Christ is laughing and Mocking Jesus Christ.

ANY other faith system apart from the 66 Books of the Holy Bible is a Mock to Jesus Christ of the highest type. Anything ADDED as an extra book or revelation or special thing that keeps a group of people as thinking they are more special, or "the chosen" people of God is a direct laugh and Mock and death too, just as them that killed Jesus Christ on the Cross did.

Jesus Christ died for ALL to come to repentance, even them who nailed Him to the Cross that day as we are no better than they are unless God reveals His Grace to us.

Man cannot do anything to save Himself. Religion is Man trying to reach God and impress Him hoping that He will in turn save them who are part of that religion.

Please read the Gospels and the Book of Acts and Pauls' and the Other's letters then The Old Testament with NO other "religious" books attached as reference that will atler who Jesus Christ /God is.

A good start would be with beginning with The Gospel of John beginning by simple asking God for your understanding of who He is in comparison to who we are. (Not as Molokans but as man and woman dead in sin). If God is trying to reach out to you personally, turn around and ACCEPT THAT invitation.

Paul W. Orloff

September 25, 2010

I agree seeking.

Basically I went back on my word and at least should have asked the others if I can post or what their thoughts on posting a repy would have been.

I have been in prayer a lot recently and that "normal and casual" type of discussion should be deeply desired and wanted by ALL the elders in ANY church gathering at any time or about any issue.

The best way to resolve if possible, or confront issues of such depth is to meet on a regular and a consistant fashion as the people that we are throughout the week and speak just as we do through out the week.

A very close dear woman to my heart said that Jack Greene and them used to even offer to drive the Molokan kids to Wednesday Night Church after Bible study. That Godly group helped all walks of lifes kids and not just Molokans. They wanted no more than to bring the True Gospel of Jesus to ALL kids.

I went through my whole life thinking Jack Greene was some evil man. Just as I clean one part of the Brain another part needs washing!

I dont really know what's gonna come from all of this. It seems that people are not "leaving" neccissarly, Molokanism of today, but are just comtinuing to be called out.

God knows His and in the end all His peoples will be united from where ever it is that they are now.

In reading this a few things stand out

Obviously betraying a confidence is not a good thing

However, why would anyone want to hide a discussion about Jesus & the Bible

That shouldn't be anything to keep quiet

The other issue is this...

I see clearly that what was started in regular mail should have been kept there especially when your motives are simple and were not meant to personally hurt anyone.

This I cannot agree with

The motives were clearly biased trying to be "objective" making a clear differentiation between his version of molokanism and everyone else who didn't agree being on the outside

It was not in any way, shape or form scholarly

This alleged "poll" cannot be taken as objective especially ridiculous "questions", made in abject ignorance, like the following:

"I prefer to worship while sitting in comfortable seats to hear a stirring sermon made by a Bible college graduate who was taught how to organize and deliver his/her informational and/or motivational speeches"

What the question IS SAYING is "ne-nash" Churches are taught by women who deliver motivational speeches where the molokans somehow have it right

The other "questions" are pretty all the same, born out of pride, in an attempt to justify the cult and nothing more

Can someone please share this with Andy and John Barakoff.??

This post is not to justify or compromise in the beliefs that Andy and John shared with us when I and two others visited with them. It is primarily for the reason to bring out the mistake and disobedience to God, and them that I offended.

Andy and John Berakoff, I do sincerely apologize for posting openly after I truthfully gave you my word that I and the others that afternoon I would not do just that. To you both and to the other two that were with me that on day, I apologize and do forgive me for going back on my words that day.

I personally said nothing during that conversation that I would not have wanted recorded. I mentioned that day that as, we were there in truth to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I still keep open the offer to visit and share the Good News of Jesus Christ at any time as we all three offered that afternoon with Andy and John.

I want to add a few things of clarity in regards to the letter sent to me and the others after Andy and John were notified of my post. There are many many issues that could be addressed on here but I will address only a couple at this time on here. Again, as I once said before towards starting of this topic was that certain issues and discussions should be kept to personal letters or left upon meetings in real life or kept in confidentiality.

1. You both highly denied Jesus Christ as Being God; the Pharisees clearly did this as they mocked Jesus Christ and eventually killed him.

2. On this letter, again, I am speaking only for myself. I very openly and clearly shared my extreme pacifism against, ALL wars and capital punishment and abortion etc... As they are ALL murder and against what Jesus Christ died for and completely against what the Holy Spirit teaches and guides His followers to do and to not do. (The True Molokan fore-fathers believed this too and it's not because of them that I am pacifist but because of the Words of Jesus Christ in the Holy Bible and of The Guidance and Conviction of the Holy Spirit).

3. I am not kosher (as our forefather as being a gentile saved by God's Grace I was never bound to that Jewish Law of old.)

4. Ne-Nash is not a Godly term yet man-made and again as the Bible clearly states in the New-Testament, God only wants Christians to marry other Christians. He wants His children not to be un-equally yoked with un-believers. No man or woman since the death of Christ was bound to marriage "of their own" etc… Man or fore-fathers cannot change what is of God.

5. Again, in the latest letter even though I and the others claimed to be against war (which is true) but says" I am just like other 99% of my fellow Christians." Who worship a war god. On this same line Andy Berakoff compares The Jesus Christ in the Bible to be "The smartest, wisest, fairest, holiest and most righteous person who ever walked on the face of the earth."

(Side Note- This makes Jesus Christ, God The Saviour ALSO in the need of a savior if He is just a 'Good Man.'

Again, Andy and John, please forgive me for breaking my promise and sharing the contents of the conversation as I really am sorry.

I personally am not "offended" by your survey but I see clearly that what was started in regular mail should have been kept there especially when your motives are simple and were not meant to personally hurt anyone.

Andy and John, if you would ever like to talk again as we did on the Saturday please call me. If you call my folks out of The Molokan directory they will give my cell number. I just do not want to post it on here. OR, please share with us, openly on here as you desire. Maybe, the survey will get more responses on here? I am not sure, but more is said openly on here than in real life as many remain unanimous. Many Molokans elders as extremely concerned about the way the religion is going. I brought this up at that meeting, that I believe many people would attend a meeting as such if it were kept as a casual with no formal order to follow except for people to share their hearts. In my opinion, this would be the only way for anything to ever change if God so desires it to. Many are intimidated by the ways of the elders and or by the non-ablilty to get real Bible answers on many many issues.

But please, if we do talk more let's keep it all about Jesus Christ. I am not for war; I do not go to Calvary or any church gathering at this time because of having problems finding a church that does not support war. I have thrown TV out of my life and I do my best to learn from The Holy Spirit Himself. I am not against the Russian Language or any other Languages. I am not against people loving their traditions etc… BUT, when ANYTHING, becomes a hindrance and Idol or a God I will NOT attend that gathering when it is called "holy." This is NOT only about Molokanism of today, but is about Mormonism and ALL other belief systems that have ANOTHER book or another 'man' in the picture.

We as humans who are saved or say we are saved should be willing to do anything to share this Saving Grace with ALL other peoples, anywhere. For any people to say they believe in the Jesus Christ in the Bible but at the same time , because of their religion, they cannot worship or marry others that also believer in Same Jesus Christ is laughing and Mocking Jesus Christ.

ANY other faith system apart from the 66 Books of the Holy Bible is a Mock to Jesus Christ of the highest type. Anything ADDED as an extra book or revelation or special thing that keeps a group of people as thinking they are more special, or "the chosen" people of God is a direct laugh and Mock and death too, just as them that killed Jesus Christ on the Cross did.

Jesus Christ died for ALL to come to repentance, even them who nailed Him to the Cross that day as we are no better than they are unless God reveals His Grace to us.

Man cannot do anything to save Himself. Religion is Man trying to reach God and impress Him hoping that He will in turn save them who are part of that religion.

Please read the Gospels and the Book of Acts and Pauls' and the Other's letters then The Old Testament with NO other "religious" books attached as reference that will atler who Jesus Christ /God is.

A good start would be with beginning with The Gospel of John beginning by simple asking God for your understanding of who He is in comparison to who we are. (Not as Molokans but as man and woman dead in sin). If God is trying to reach out to you personally, turn around and ACCEPT THAT invitation.

Paul W. Orloff

lastinline · October 5, 2010

I went through my whole life thinking Jack Greene was some evil man. Just as I clean one part of the Brain another part needs washing!

I don't really know what's gonna come from all of this. It seems that people are not "leaving" necessarily, Molokanism of today, but are just continuing to be called out.

Yes, called out of darkness. I too, had a similar view of Jack Green. I remember when they were going to bring in a team of basketball players to play Molokans at the old UMCA. You would of thought that blood would have been flowing all over the court, if it had happened. It was stopped and the ones that proposed the event were taken to the wood shed, for a thorough whooping. Some of you may remember that there was one page of the Molokan newsletter in the early 70's that was totally blacked out when someone tried to editorialize about the whole incident and it had to be squashed.

lastinline (oh those good old days of summer love)

Molokan Survey In The Mail

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