seeking_truth_1 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2010 What does Scripture say? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
little koshka 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2010 Everyone is a sinner, unless of course they are perfect. A person can prove that they are perfect by demonstrating their ability to walk a bit of a distance on water. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seeking_truth_1 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2010 What does Scripture say? What does molokanism say? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinPolyaNazaroff 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2010 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone (including molokans) under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Galatians 3:22 NAS 23 for all (molokans) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23 NAS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinPolyaNazaroff 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2010 Everyone is a sinner, unless of course they are perfect. A person can prove that they are perfect by demonstrating their ability to walk a bit of a distance on water. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seeking_truth_1 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2010 Yet do molokans agree with this? Aren't they "prayed into heaven" just in case? Aren't they baptized as an infant? Don't they observe the food laws? Don't they separate themselves from "ne-nash"? Don't they wear "special" clothing? Aren't they part of the "new israel"? Don't they have a "special revelation" through the s&l? Though Scripture states ALL have sinned does that really include molokans? 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone (including molokans) under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Galatians 3:22 NAS 23 for all (molokans) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23 NAS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest shake-n-bake Report post Posted August 26, 2010 in addition to sinning some molokans have denied Yet do molokans agree with this? Aren't they "prayed into heaven" just in case? Aren't they baptized as an infant? Don't they observe the food laws? Don't they separate themselves from "ne-nash"? Don't they wear "special" clothing? Aren't they part of the "new israel"? Don't they have a "special revelation" through the s&l? Though Scripture states ALL have sinned does that really include molokans? 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone (including molokans) under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Galatians 3:22 NAS 23 for all (molokans) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23 NAS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinPolyaNazaroff 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2010 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone (including molokans) under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Galatians 3:22 NAS 23 for all (molokans) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23 NAS Yet do molokans agree with this? Not all. The majority do not. But there are a few who have been saved and do have a testimony of the grace of Jesus. Aren't they "prayed into heaven" just in case? I was taught from my youth that once a person dies, there is no prayer that can pray somebody into heaven. I am fortunate that I was surrounded by Christian family and friends in my youth. The heresies of the spirit and life did not infiltrate my family. On the other hand, there are those who were whole-heartily given over to worship according to mgr. When they realize the error of their way, they rightfully flee to safety. But if and when God calls them back to minister to the lost, they feel like they can use anger and emotional games to convert people into the truth. Aren't they baptized as an infant? This is a tough one. I just don't know where to start on this one... Don't they observe the food laws? I don't. I do find myself adhering to the food laws as much as possible. But if I am with someone and there is a need to minister, I do not let the Jewish food laws hinder the Word of God. Don't they separate themselves from "ne-nash"? Yes. This is (for me), the ugliest of all of the current molokan problems. Don't they wear "special" clothing? Special russian clothing. This can be done away with for all I'm concerned. But it does not bother me to dress this way either. What would bother me is for the church to pass judgment on someone who does not wear the Russian clothing. Aren't they part of the "new israel"? Not all. There are more and more that are realizing the difference between "new Israel" molokans and "postayane" molokans. Don't they have a "special revelation" through the s&l? The new Israel sect does. And these "special revelations" have infultrated into all but the San Francisco and Kern Ave molokan churches. Kevin Nazaroff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seeking_truth_1 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2010 One of the most difficult people to minister to is the religious They already have it "figured out" so do not confuse them with the facts They also seem to forget they too are sinners in need of a Savior That flies directly in the face of a false religion that says they can do it themselves based upon their own efforts Nothing can be further from the Truth Scripture states “17 ¶ You who call yourselves Jews are relying on God’s law, and you boast about your special relationship with him. 18 You know what he wants; you know what is right because you have been taught his law. 19 You are convinced that you are a guide for the blind and a light for people who are lost in darkness. 20 You think you can instruct the ignorant and teach children the ways of God. For you are certain that God’s law gives you complete knowledge and truth. 21 Well then, if you teach others, why don’t you teach yourself? You tell others not to steal, but do you steal? 22 You say it is wrong to commit adultery, but do you commit adultery? You condemn idolatry, but do you use items stolen from pagan temples? 23 You are so proud of knowing the law, but you dishonor God by breaking it. 24 No wonder the Scriptures say, “The Gentiles blaspheme the name of God because of you.” 25 The Jewish ceremony of circumcision has value only if you obey God’s law. But if you don’t obey God’s law, you are no better off than an uncircumcised Gentile. 26 And if the Gentiles obey God’s law, won’t God declare them to be his own people? 27 In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God’s law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God’s law but don’t obey it. 28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God’s Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.” (Romans 2:17-29 NLT) Would God lie about who Jesus is and place that in someones heart? Would God deny His very Words when He states they are inerrant? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinPolyaNazaroff 0 Report post Posted August 28, 2010 One of the most difficult people to minister to is the religious They already have it "figured out" so do not confuse them with the facts They also seem to forget they too are sinners in need of a Savior That flies directly in the face of a false religion that says they can do it themselves based upon their own efforts Nothing can be further from the Truth Scripture states “17 ¶ You who call yourselves Jews are relying on God’s law, and you boast about your special relationship with him. 18 You know what he wants; you know what is right because you have been taught his law. 19 You are convinced that you are a guide for the blind and a light for people who are lost in darkness. 20 You think you can instruct the ignorant and teach children the ways of God. For you are certain that God’s law gives you complete knowledge and truth. 21 Well then, if you teach others, why don’t you teach yourself? You tell others not to steal, but do you steal? 22 You say it is wrong to commit adultery, but do you commit adultery? You condemn idolatry, but do you use items stolen from pagan temples? 23 You are so proud of knowing the law, but you dishonor God by breaking it. 24 No wonder the Scriptures say, “The Gentiles blaspheme the name of God because of you.” 25 The Jewish ceremony of circumcision has value only if you obey God’s law. But if you don’t obey God’s law, you are no better off than an uncircumcised Gentile. 26 And if the Gentiles obey God’s law, won’t God declare them to be his own people? 27 In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God’s law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God’s law but don’t obey it. 28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God’s Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.” (Romans 2:17-29 NLT) Would God lie about who Jesus is and place that in someones heart? Would God deny His very Words when He states they are inerrant? You are right about the religious being very difficult to reach. It's just seems that some people can use their anger in the name of "spirit-led-harsh-rebuke". But, somebody's abuse does not nullify the many ways God corrects, encourages and rebukes. Just reading the way Jesus used a whip in the temple and the way He talked to them is very startling. I know that when I had a very hard heart, it was the spoken word of God that broke me and humbled me. But, a couple days before this work of God in my heart, I had two very different conversations with two different men of God. They were both born again Christians. One is a molokan, one is a non molokan. I received some harsh, but true words from one, and some gentle but uncomfortable words from the other. Both had a desire to help me and point me to Jesus. Were both necessary? Yes. Two different approaches, but both shared the one and same goal. The gospel of Jesus Christ. Kevin Nazaroff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
