E.g. Klubnikin The Molokan Prophet

[anakainosis 0]

The Tally, a.k.a. Dude submits,

 

18) EGK and other past prophets would be recognized as a false.

 

The reasons why I do not take E.G. Klubnikin seriously:

 

Concerning the dead, he states, "The place for the soul of the deceased righteous people is a vast field, with the covenant of the Bible and Evangel on the table." E.G.K 26:3

 

That is the concept of heaven for the Molokan; that is if you uphold and support E.G.K. I disagree with that idea of heaven, as would Apostle Paul. When he writes about death, he looks forward to being with the Lord; "I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord." (2 Corinthians 5:8, NASB95) So for the righteous to be away from their body is to be at home with the Lord. He also has a desire, "But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;" (Philippians 1:23, NASB95)

Jesus Christ also told the thief were he will be, "And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." (Luke 23:43, NASB95)

 

Where is the Lord in E.G.K`s weird heaven?

Which one would you want to go to; be with Christ or go wait in a vast field?

 

"They sing mournfully, the eyes of all having the same gaze, their heads drooping. During the singing they wave one hand and all nod their heads in the same manner." E.G.K. 26:5

 

Does this not sound kind of spooky; sounds like a typical Molokan church ceremony with no jumping? Is this Paradise?

 

"Later they sing despondently, then leave each to his own place where they lie face down. When a new soul is led unto them, they look at it and again lie down. They bring the souls of small children in and entrust them to nurses. They carry the infants in their arms, while the larger children walk on their own. They walk about the garden and eat fruit picked by nurses or by themselves." E.G.K. 26:7-10

 

This sounds like his (E.G.K`s) own version of "soul sleep" that is not Biblical. Christ did not say to the thief, "you will be with me in Paradise but first, you are going to a vast field were there will be books on the table and you will lie face down and wait for the resurrection¦"

 

Also if baby souls need nurses then old souls will have wheel chairs or ˜need assistance` buttons for help perhaps.

 

"A great multitude of children are there. They weep over them in vain; but it is needful to pray that they grow in stature among the saints." E.G.K. 26:11

 

"If their parents beseech God, they are led into the light, and they walk about without restraint." E.G.K. 26:14

 

This reminds me of the idea of ˜the age of accountability`, another non biblical concept. If you believe in this, show me scripture.

 

"For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. " (Romans 9:15-16, NASB95)

 

When children die, God decides where they will go. We can`t say they all go to heaven because they`re innocent. You don`t know that. We also can`t ˜will` or pray them into heaven; there is no scripture to back that up. In 2 Samuel David prayed intensely for his child while he was still alive. But when he died he stopped, cleaned himself up and went to church to worship; then he ate. The child`s destiny was settled.

 

Also regarding prayer for the dead; did Jesus say that we could pray for the rich man so he will get to heaven (Abraham`s bosom) in Luke 16:19-31?

 

There is no indication showing in the New Testament that the Apostles prayed for their dead. Why would you pray for someone who went to heaven who`s in the presence of God and they are in a state of perfect happiness? You should pray for yourselves and family who are still alive.

 

The heavenly reward souls receive will be based off of the conduct of their lives while in the flesh. "Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man`s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man`s work. If any man`s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man`s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. "(1 Corinthians 3:12-15, NASB95)

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10, NASB95)

 

After death comes judgment. "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment," (Hebrews 9:27, NASB95)

 

 

"With two pennies, which I had once given as alms, I defended myself against them. While all the rest of the people were seized by them, because of their lack of alms." E.G.K. 7:4

 

Actually read all of article seven in E.G.K`s writings. Is this his view of purgatory that is a Catholic or Orthodox Doctrine?

 

The Catholics use 2 Maccabees 12:42-45 as their proof for prayer for the dead and alms giving to release souls from this waiting place. Sound familiar?

"Betook themselves unto prayer, and besought him that the sin committed might wholly be put out of remembrance. Besides, that noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forsomuch as they saw before their eyes the things that came to pass for the sins of those that were slain. And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin." (2 Maccabees 12:42-45, KJV Apoc)

 

Does this not contradict Christ`s final sacrifice and atonement for all sin of His chosen?

"But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. " (Hebrews 9:11-12, NASB95)

 

Do Molokans know that as much hatred is shown towards Orthodoxy in the S&L and personal opinion realize they embrace the same Canonicity of the Orthodox Church? The Apocryphal writings were accepted as divine literature only in the 1500`s by the Orthodoxy. The early church and the Jewish community never accepted those writings as divinely inspired or equal to the Old Testament like our currant lineup in the English protestant Old Testament.

 

Those writings originally were never written in Hebrew but in Greek and were collected in Egypt by the pagan Greeks who put the Septuagint together in Greek. (Read ˜The Journey from Texts to Translations`, by Paul D. Wegner)

Furthermore, when we look to the writings that are not considered inspired we find in 1 Maccabees evidence that there was no true prophets of God at that time.

 

"They thought it best to pull it down, lest it should be a reproach to them, because the heathen had defiled it: wherefore they pulled it down, And laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, until there should come a prophet to shew what should be done with them." (1 Maccabees 4:45-46, KJV Apoc)

 

This was written approximately 100b.c. and apparently there has not been a prophet for quite some time, "So was there a great affliction in Israel, the like whereof was not since the time that a prophet was not seen among them." (1 Maccabees 9:27, KJV Apoc)

 

Josephus a Jewish historian (born 37/38a.d.) wrote, "(38) For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another [as the Greeks have], but only twenty-two books,g which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be divine; (39) and of them five belong to Moses, which contain his laws and the traditions of the origin of mankind till his death. This interval of time was little short of three thousand years; (40) but as to the time from the death of Moses till the reign of Artaxerxes (464-423 b.c.), king of Persia, who reigned after Xerxes, the prophets, who were after Moses, wrote down what was done in their times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God, and precepts for the conduct of human life. (41) It is true, our history hath been written since Artaxerxes very particularly, but hath not been esteemed of the like authority with the former by our forefathers, because there hath not been an exact succession of prophets since that time; (42) and how firmly we have given credit to those books of our own nation, is evident by what we do; for during so many ages as have already passed, no one has been so bold as either to add anything to them, to take anything from them, or to make any change in them; but it becomes natural to all Jews, immediately and from their very birth, to esteem those books to contain divine doctrines, and to persist in them, and, if occasion be, willingly to die for them." (Against Apion 1.38-42)

 

So between Malachi to John the Baptist, these were the silent years. There was no one who spoke with authority from God. Any doctrine built from any of the books in the Apocrypha should be deemed false or not from God for these reasons.

 

So in concluding, E.G.K. teaches a different heaven than the New Testament. We are to pray for the dead and give alms to be released from ˜a place`. None of which are Biblical, that are based off writings that were never accepted by the early church including the Jews to be authoritative.

 

Why should we accept the Apocrypha?

 

Do you want to be with Christ or lie face down in a field?

 

E.G.K.`s writings are not Biblical and contradict Christ`s work; why should we accept them as being authoritative?

 

Why should he be considered a prophet from God?

[steadfast 0]

To Anakainosis, Excellent work exposing this heresy. Glory to the Father through His Son. Steadfast

[coffee 0]

E.G.K.`s writings are not Biblical and contradict Christ`s work; why should we accept them as being authoritative?

 

Why should he be considered a prophet from God?

 

 

 

There has been much sensationalized "respect" directed toward Klubnikin, the result of his "prophecy to America", given when he was a young 12 year old boy. Actually, Klubnikin never mentioned the word "America", at all.

 

From Klubnikin's writings on Page 638 in the Spirit and Life book, Article 5, Verses 6-14:

 

 

6. Those that believe in this will go on a journey to a far land, while the unbelievers will remain in place.

 

7 When these scenes are completed, then our people will go on a long journey over the great and deep waters. The doors are not strong and the fire is not hot, and the journey on water is as on dry land.

 

8. People from all countries will go there. There the scales are just, each shall be placed according to the weighing of his works.

 

9. The promised land will be purged; there will be a great war: all kings will shed blood like rivers.

 

10. A great man, the antichrist, will arise. Two witnesses will come forth in the spirit of Elijah and Enoch; they will stand against the antichrist and be killed. Completing the victory they will ascend to heaven.

 

11. The harlot shall be condemned. Land will be seized from the lords (landowners), and the boundaries will be lifted from the seas.

 

12. Just before the beginning, or at the beginning, of the age of Jacob, two steamships will leave to cross the impassable ocean: one for twenty years and the other for seventeen.

 

13. Then God will lift the boundaries of the ocean. Then they (the steamships) will return to their own homeland, and thereafter will travel back and forth.

 

14. There is much land there, and there are people. And it is the land of the living - they do not die, but are transformed every hundred years.

 

 

 

In a nutshell, that was Klubnikin's great "prophecy". Most of those who exalt Klubnikin to the status of "prophet" always stop after verse 9 above. There is rarely an attempt to review what Klubnikin wrote in Verses 10-14.

 

To see what kind of "prophet" he was, let us focus on the term that Klubnikin used in Verse 12, "the age of Jacob".

 

In the English translation (black cover), ***** ***************** gives a footnote with reference to "the age of Jacob", something written by Rudometkin on Page 399, Book 7, Article 13, Verse 9, of the Spirit and Life book.

 

 

9. And in this regard I (Rudometkin) name this second age of ours after the eternally blessed Jacob. Verily, this entire future era will be blessed from above by the God of gods Himself for all of its wholesome works for the unending age. Yes, Amen.

 

 

 

In his footnotes on both pages (399 and 639), ***** ***************** gives another reference, this time to something that is written in the Russian Bible, in 2 Esdras 6:8-10. This reference in the Apocrypha is supposedly the substantiation for Klubnikin's use of the term, "the age of Jacob".

 

The book of 2 Esdras in the Russian Bible corresponds with the book of 1 Esdras in the English Apocrypha. Following is what the proponents of the S & L use to justify Rudometkin and Klubnikin, and their use of the term, "the age of Jacob":

 

 

8. Let all things be known unto our Lord the king, that being come into the country of Judea, and entered into the city of Jerusalem, we found in the city of Jerusalem the ancients of the Jews that were of the captivity

 

9. Building an house unto the Lord, great and new, of hewn and costly stones, and the timber already laid upon the walls.

 

10. And those works are done with great speed, and the work goeth on prosperously in their hands, and with all glory and diligence is it made.

 

(1 Esdras 6:8-10)

 

 

 

The "age of Jacob" is not written about in the Bible. When the supporters and defenders of the S & L try to come up with something to justify themselves, they refer to a passage in the Apocrypha which has nothing to do with what either of their heroes wrote.

 

Attention should also be given to Klubnikin's use of the term, "the land of the living", from Verse 14 above, at the top. Klubnikin wrote that in this "land", the people do not die, but will be "transformed every 100 years". This sounds very similar to what Rudometkin wrote.

 

 

From Rudometkin:

 

4. And verily, I well know that with this new name of mine I shall never die. I shall only be renewed manifestly in this body of mine every hundred years. (Page 607, Book 14, Article 10, Verse 4)

 

 

 

According to what is written in the Bible, this coming age is not one of "renewed" life, or "transformed" life, every 100 years. The Lord Jesus Christ calls it the "age to come", and He refers to what is going to take place there as "eternal life" (Mark 10:30 and Luke 18:30).

[steadfast 0]

Coffee, I really enjoy your postings. They get right to the heart of the subject without all of the fancy footwork. Many would like you to post more often, exposing this heretical cancer that is stalking the Molokans. May God bless and keep up the good work! steadfast

[seeking_truth_1 0]

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