Jumping Can Be Harmful To Your Health

seeking_truth_1 · June 13, 2006

If ITD Want to make a case for jumping using Scripture, he will need to look at ALL passages that refer to jumping/leaping

As you can see from the passage below, I can just as easily make a case for jumping AND self mutilation

You might want to do some research on Baal and the false prophets

By the way, the Khlysty (mgr) also advocated self-mutilation just like the Muslim and the prophets of Baal did/do

The story doesn't end well for the "leapers"

And Elijah said to them, "Seize the prophets of Baal! Do not let one of them escape!" So they seized them; and Elijah brought them down to the Brook Kishon and executed them there. 1 Kings 18:40 NKJV

Here's the balance of the account

1 And Elijah came to all the people, and said, "How long will you falter between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him." But the people answered him not a word.

22 Then Elijah said to the people, "I alone am left a prophet of the LORD; but Baal`s prophets are four hundred and fifty men.

23 "Therefore let them give us two bulls; and let them choose one bull for themselves, cut it in pieces, and lay it on the wood, but put no fire under it; and I will prepare the other bull, and lay it on the wood, but put no fire under it.

24 "Then you call on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD; and the God who answers by fire, He is God." So all the people answered and said, "It is well spoken."

25 Now Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, "Choose one bull for yourselves and prepare it first, for you are many; and call on the name of your god, but put no fire under it."

26 So they took the bull which was given them, and they prepared it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even till noon, saying, "O Baal, hear us!" But there was no voice; no one answered. Then they leaped about the altar which they had made. :94:

27 And so it was, at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, "Cry aloud, for he is a god; either he is meditating, or he is busy, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is sleeping and must be awakened."

28 So they cried aloud, and cut themselves, as was their custom, with knives and lances, until the blood gushed out on them.

29 And when midday was past, they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice. But there was no voice; no one answered, no one paid attention. (1 Kings 18:1-29 NKJV)

sadichka · June 13, 2006

1 kings 18: 26

So they took the bull which was given them, and they prepared it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even till noon, saying, "O Baal, hear us!" But there was no voice; no one answered. Then they leaped about the altar which they had made.

The word in the Greek lexicon: 'leaped'
xop a primitive root

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Pacach TWOT - 1786,1787

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech

paw-sakh'

Verb

1. to pass over, spring over

a. (Qal) to pass over

b. (Piel) to skip, pass over

2. to limp

a. (Qal) to limp

b. (Niphal) to be lame

c. (Piel) to limp

Acts 14: 8

8 And in Lystra a certain man without strength in his feet was sitting, a cripple from his mother's womb, who had never walked. 9 This man heard Paul speaking. Paul, observing him intently and seeing that he had faith to be healed, 10 said with a loud voice, "Stand up straight on your feet!" And he leaped and walked.

The word in the Greek lexicon: 'leaped'
a&llomai middle voice of apparently a primary verb

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Hallomai None

Phonetic Spelling

hal'-lom-ahee

Verb

Definition

1. to leap

2. to spring up, gush up: of water

Luke 1:41-45

41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45 Blessed is she who believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord."

The word in the Greek lexicon: 'leaped'

skirtavw akin to skairo (to skip)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Skirtao 7:401,1046

Phonetic Spelling

skeer-tah'-o

Verb

Definition

1. to leap

According to John Gills` Exposition of the Bible:

For lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears¦

"This she mentions, as the signal by which she knew that she was the mother of her Lord; namely, from that unusual and extraordinary motion of the child, she felt within her:"

the babe leaped in my womb for joy;

"that the mother of her Lord, and his, was come thither: the Jews ought not to object to this, who affirm, that the embryos, or infants in their mother's womb, sung the song at the Red Sea, and praised God." (Targum in Ps lxviii. 27. Zohar in Exod. fol. 23. 3. T. Hieros, Sota, fol. 20. 3. Tzeror Hammor, fol. 75. 3.)

How cool! Even the babe's in the womb leaped for joy!!! :94: And they sang!!! :92:

Well, from one mother to another (ooops! sorry guys, you have never experienced the movement of a baby in your womb.)

So, let me 'learn you some'...if the woman experienced a 'leap' from the baby strong enough that it's mentioned in the Bible, that had to have been some movement. Wasn't that baby John the Baptist? So, he was the one that leaped in his Mama!

Wow! That is amazing. She heard Mary's voice, the baby leaped and immediately she was filled with what? Oh, Right. The Holy Spirit. So, if the baby leaped....and she was filled with the Holy Spirit....and the baby was in her womb....who do you think was also filled with the Holy Spirit as he leaped?

Sada :wub:

steadfast · June 13, 2006

Sada, Did the baby or crippled man continue to jump rhythmically? I think you're ignoring a very important part of the jumping controversy.

Why doesn't continued rhythmic jumping start with melancholy singing or melancoly prayer. If jumping is a manefestation of God's Holy Spirit why is there no jumping at those times?

I'v been going to a Molokan Church for a lifetime and have NEVER seen jumping start without heavy rhythmic singing aka chanting. God warns against chanting during worship. You can find that discussion on this forum under another thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sada. the subject you are attempting to prove is; Does the Holy Spirit manifest itself as continued rhythmic jumping. Find that for us in the Bible.

sadichka · June 14, 2006

Sada, Did the baby or crippled man continue to jump rhythmically? I think you're ignoring a very important part of the jumping controversy.

Why doesn't continued rhythmic jumping start with melancholy singing or melancoly prayer. If jumping is a manefestation of God's Holy Spirit why is there no jumping at those times?

I'v been going to a Molokan Church for a lifetime and have NEVER seen jumping start without heavy rhythmic singing aka chanting. God warns against chanting during worship. You can find that discussion on this forum under another thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sada. the subject you are attempting to prove is; Does the Holy Spirit manifest itself as continued rhythmic jumping. Find that for us in the Bible.

Once again, you are not 'listening' and I am not ignoring anything.

In my previous post, I have enlightened the reader to some important facts. The three above mentioned verses all have different meanings for the word 'leaped'. They all are from the Bible.

Would you affirm the fact that John the Baptist 'leaped' in his mother's womb?...for however long it lasted.

You either agree or not. Yes or no. Affirmative or negative.

:94:

Sada

ps. I am not attempting, nor have I ever attempted, to prove or disprove the length of time that a person ''leaps". I have proven that they do leap and it is backed up by the Bible.

steadfast · June 14, 2006

Sada, Does the Holy Spirit manifest itself as continued rhythmic jumping. Can you find that for us in the Bible.

sadichka · June 14, 2006

Sada, Does the Holy Spirit manifest itself as continued rhythmic jumping. Can you find that for us in the Bible.

You are answering a question with a question. :93:

The title of this thread is: "Jumping Can Be Harmful To Your Health"

Did Elizabeth have a miscarriage or did she have a 'leaping' John the Baptist. :94:

Which one? Choose the Bible or choose otherwise.....

'Leaping' obviously was not harmful to John the Baptist's health. We know that he was born... remember, he was the one that baptized Jesus.

He died because of man not because of the Spirit of God.

Sada

steadfast · June 14, 2006

Sada, first I must be sure we are talking about the same thing.

Subject; "Jumping can be harmful to your health."

Are we talking about the mother's or baby's health.

Are we talking about physical or Spiritual health?

Admin, these little jumping icons are cute!

Can you get one that passes gas when it jumps?

A combination of these two. :94: :20:

steadfast · June 14, 2006

IvanTheDonut aka How Donuts Think. Is passing gas a menifestation of the king of spirits. Can passing gas be harmful to your health? Can passing gas be harmful to your neighbors health? Does passing gas really affect wall paper?

sadichka · June 14, 2006

Sada, first I must be sure we are talking about the same thing.

Subject; "Jumping can be harmful to your health."

Are we talking about the mother's or baby's health.

Are we talking about physical or Spiritual health?

Admin, these little jumping icons are cute!

Can you get one that passes gas when it jumps?

A combination of these two.

Subject; "Jumping can be harmful to your health."

Question: Would you affirm the fact that John the Baptist 'leaped' in his mother's womb?...for however long it lasted.

I will even make it easy for you:

Yes, John the Baptist 'leaped' in his mother's womb for an undetermined amount of time.

:94:

or

No, John the Baptist did not 'leap' in his mother's womb for an undetermined amount of time.

:20:

Simply cut and paste your answer.

Sada

BTW, I named this little guy :20: "Steadpassed....gas"

steadfast · June 14, 2006

Don't all babys (leap) in their mother's womb?

They shared the same flesh, they did not share the same soul?

"Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit" The Bible says nothing about the Spiritual status of the unborn child.

Re; Health physical and spiritual. What effects one may not necessairily affect the child;.... Jer 31:29 29 "In those days people will no longer say, 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.' NIV

steadfast · June 14, 2006

I have to make a correction on my previous post. Yes, the physical health of a woman will affect her unborn child.

broadway · June 14, 2006

The title of this thread is: "Jumping Can Be Harmful To Your Health"

I always heard that excercise was good for you...especially after a couple bowls of lapsha :laugh:

Nice job Sada.

sadichka · June 14, 2006

Don't all babys (leap) in their mother's womb?

They shared the same flesh, they did not share the same soul?

"Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit" The Bible says nothing about the Spiritual status of the unborn child.

Re; Health physical and spiritual. What effects one may not necessairily affect the child;.... Jer 31:29 29 "In those days people will no longer say, 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.' NIV

I have to make a correction on my previous post. Yes, the physical health of a woman will affect her unborn child.

I understand what you are saying. You are only able to comment if you know where I am coming from. Right? Physical or Spiritual.

I would have to say neither. I am speaking about 'context' of a Bible verse.

In the context of the highlighted verses:

Luke 1:41-45
41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45 Blessed is she who believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord."

Q: Did John the Baptist 'leap' for joy in his mother's (Elizabeth) womb?

A: Yes.

How do we know the answer is 'yes'? It is written in the Bible. See, you didn't even have to answer because the answer is as plain as day.

Now, as for all babies 'leaping' in their mother's belly's, I will agree that babies do move....around the fifth month you can really feel it! When my babies moved I do not feel it could be called: 'leaping for joy'. Some of them stretched and others turned. Not very fast, more of a slow turning, stretching movement. Why don't you ask some women what it feels like? Maybe they can help you understand the miracle of this occurance. Many women had many babies over the decades before the bible was put together and there was no mention of other babies 'leaping for joy'. Yet, upon the voice of the pregnant Mary being heard by the pregnant Elizabeth, the infant, John the Baptist leaped for joy and immediately Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Again, look at the context. No one can make you believe what is written in the Bible, you just have to make that choice for yourself.

Sada

steadfast · June 15, 2006

Sada, Nor did your latest post mention "health", for which I was scoulded by you. Because of that I think you're trying to lead this conversation to a conclusion that the baby was also in the Holy Spirit and was the reason for him leaping.

God said Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, yet God said the baby leaped for joy.

God must make a differentiation between Holy Spirit and joy, or he most likely would have said ; the baby leaped in my womb with the Holy Spirit, using the same wording describing Elizabeth's Spiritual status.

I checked 7 versions of the Bible, in that verse the word "joy" was never capitalized, but the words Holy Spirit are always capitalized. What does it mean when a word is capitalized?

In any case, there is no scripture stating or implying the baby leaped because of the Holy Spirit, or anyone else for that matter.

sadichka · June 15, 2006

Sada, Nor did your latest post mention "health", for which I was scoulded by you. Because of that I think you're trying to lead this conversation to a conclusion that the baby was also in the Holy Spirit and was the reason for him leaping.

I didn't mean to scold you, and I am not trying to lead the conversation anywhere. I would like you to admit that the baby 'leaped for joy'. I do not know how long it lasted, I just know it did happen.

God said Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, yet God said the baby leaped for joy.

Yes.

God must make a differentiation between Holy Spirit and joy, or he most likely would have said ; the baby leaped in my womb with the Holy Spirit, using the same wording describing Elizabeth's Spiritual status.

God does not have to do anything, He is The Almighty Creator. The Bible is what it is, the inherent Truth.

I checked 7 versions of the Bible, in that verse the word "joy" was never capitalized, but the words Holy Spirit are always capitalized. What does it mean when a word is capitalized?

Ok...you're scrambing and you're rambling.

What difference does it make if the word 'joy' is capitalized in order to accept what the Bible states?

In any case, there is no scripture stating or implying the baby leaped because of the Holy Spirit, or anyone else for that matter.

The scripture is clear. God does not need our approval for the content of the Bible. He will, through prayer, send understanding.

Sada :wub:

steadfast · June 15, 2006

Did Elizabeth`s baby have the Holy Spirit while in his mothers womb?... NO!

To receive the Holy Spirit, Jesus must FIRST be glorified ¦..John 7:37-39 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. NIV

To recieve the Holy Spirit, the fetus John, must first, have had to glorify Jesus Christ. Which scriptures state that event?

fourvetta · June 15, 2006

Did Elizabeth`s baby have the Holy Spirit while in his mothers womb?... NO!

To receive the Holy Spirit, Jesus must FIRST be glorified ¦..John 7:37-39 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. NIV

To recieve the Holy Spirit, the fetus John, must first, have had to glorify Jesus Christ. Which scriptures state that event?

The prophets of old, had the Spirit of Christ within them before the birth of Christ.

I Peter tells us that. I put it in a nice pastel color so as not to affend you.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you,

11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven”things which angels desire to look into.

sadichka · June 15, 2006

Did Elizabeth`s baby have the Holy Spirit while in his mothers womb?... NO!

To receive the Holy Spirit, Jesus must FIRST be glorified ¦..John 7:37-39 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. NIV

To recieve the Holy Spirit, the fetus John, must first, have had to glorify Jesus Christ. Which scriptures state that event?

Luke 1: 11-15

11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

:94:

seeking_truth_1 · June 16, 2006

Excellent passage from Luke!

However, how can you make the "leap" (if you will) from being filled with The Holy Spirit and leaping as molokans of the prophets of Baal did/do?

I'm sorry, but there IS NOT a Biblical mandate, command or even inference to provide for the ritualistic rhythmic jumping done by molokans

There IS NOT a single place where anyone in the new or old Testaments rhythmically jumped in the context of a worship service as a result of the indwelt Holy Spirit or the descending (a.k.a. epi) of the Holy Spirit

David lept not because of the Holy Spirit, but because the Ark was being returned

He was joyful

The guy who had been lame for decades also lept

Not because of a manefestion of the Holy Spirit, but because he was excited he could walk

ANYONE (Not just the "new Israel molokans") who accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior has the Holy Spirit indwelling them and has the gift of eternal life

Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? (1 Corinthians 6:19 NKJV)

The whole idea of the rudometikinites "new Israel" (a.k.a. Group 2 & 3 molokans) mentality flies in the face of Scripture

The same deny the Deity of Jesus. They also cannot answer how to deal with personal sin and say that they are the ONLY one's who have it "spiritually" right

Sounds more like a cult than Christianity...

steadfast · June 16, 2006

Good find Sada, Thank You for pointing out those scriptures.

1. How could the fetus John have the Holy Spirit, when he did not previously glorify Jesus? There seems to be some confusion or maybe we don't have the whole story yet. Can you help us out?

2. Now that we know the baby did in fact have God's Holy Spirit while in it's mothers womb, could it have been the jumper prigune spirit taught by MGR. The only way we would know is to discern if MGR glorified Jesus Christ. On that subject his writings are contradictory to say the least. We need more Bible scripture. We need to discern if their are two different spirits being discussed here.

IvanTheDonut · June 16, 2006

If ITD Want to make a case for jumping using Scripture, he will need to look at ALL passages that refer to jumping/leaping

As you can see from the passage below, I can just as easily make a case for jumping AND self mutilation

You might want to do some research on Baal and the false prophets

By the way, the Khlysty (mgr) also advocated self-mutilation just like the Muslim and the prophets of Baal did/do

The story doesn't end well for the "leapers"

And Elijah said to them, "Seize the prophets of Baal! Do not let one of them escape!" So they seized them; and Elijah brought them down to the Brook Kishon and executed them there. 1 Kings 18:40 NKJV

________________________________________________________________

What are you talking about? MGR did not ever have anything to do with self mutilation and nor was he ever part of the Khlysty. What nerve do you have of spouting off that junk let alone not backing it up with anything in print...besides that guy up in Wash or Oreg....unless that's you.

Give your lies a rest please. I came on this site to have honest and truthful dialogue and not a rehashing of msn or yahoo molokan sites. Isn't it time to grow up and at like adults?

Nick Shubin · June 16, 2006

What are you talking about? MGR did not ever have anything to do with self mutilation and nor was he ever part of the Khlysty. What nerve do you have of spouting off that junk let alone not backing it up with anything in print...besides that guy up in Wash or Oreg....unless that's you.

Give your lies a rest please. I came on this site to have honest and truthful dialogue and not a rehashing of msn or yahoo molokan sites. Isn't it time to grow up and at like adults?

What proof do you have that mgr wasn't involved with the khlysti?

Whenever anyone quotes the various biographers of the day that studied mgr and his followers, the modern day maximisti discount and scoff at the proof that is given. The modern day maximisti claim the documentation to be an ecumenical 666 smear campaign.

mgr claimed the end of the world to be in 1857... 1857 came and went, and the loyal maximisti were still waiting the end of days. mgr then claimed the end of the world to be in 1860...1860 has come and gone, what happened to the end of the world?

IvanTheDonut · June 16, 2006

What are you talking about? MGR did not ever have anything to do with self mutilation and nor was he ever part of the Khlysty. What nerve do you have of spouting off that junk let alone not backing it up with anything in print...besides that guy up in Wash or Oreg....unless that's you.

Give your lies a rest please. I came on this site to have honest and truthful dialogue and not a rehashing of msn or yahoo molokan sites. Isn't it time to grow up and at like adults?

What proof do you have that mgr wasn't involved with the khlysti?

Whenever anyone quotes the various biographers of the day that studied mgr and his followers, the modern day maximisti discount and scoff at the proof that is given. The modern day maximisti claim the documentation to be an ecumenical 666 smear campaign.

mgr claimed the end of the world to be in 1857... 1857 came and went, and the loyal maximisti were still waiting the end of days. mgr then claimed the end of the world to be in 1860...1860 has come and gone, what happened to the end of the world?

Why do you and your father belong to churches that accept the spirit and Life and still keep it on your tables? Hypocrisy runs deep. You don't answer someone by throwing the question back into their face. You anti whatever types plain and simple do not have anything to back up your Khlysti connection rumors. Throughout your lives you will continue to deny your faith. That's ok, because no one ever said that the Spirit and Life was a requirement for salvation.

However, you deny your faith and walk closer and closer to your anti Christian friends in the Americanized world, and that can't bode well for your children's sake. (and their children) What will happen when they go to church? Will a Molokan church even exist. What you are doing is setting their children up for failure, because they will cease to know where they came from, and will not be able to differentiate themselves from 666.

Hopefully you will read what I have written with some level of maturity and not insist to everyone that I meant to personally offend. Then again, you may not even read as far as this sentence.

God Bless.

sadichka · June 16, 2006

Excellent passage from Luke!

However, how can you make the "leap" (if you will) from being filled with The Holy Spirit and leaping as molokans of the prophets of Baal did/do?

I am not trying to prove anything, I just keep reading the Bible and finding scripture.

<---- that is the sWORD of God!

Sada

sadichka · June 16, 2006

Good find Sada, Thank You for pointing out those scriptures.

1. How could the fetus John have the Holy Spirit, when he did not previously glorify Jesus?

Even more interesting is the fact that both Zacharius and Elizabeth were 'filled' with the Holy Spirit....before Christ was even born! (Read Luke Chapter 1 & 2)

2. Now that we know the baby did in fact have God's Holy Spirit while in it's mothers womb, could it have been the jumper prigune spirit taught by MGR.

Why don't we focus on what the Bible says regarding 'leaping'. These are two different debates. Back to the 'leaping' study, here is another scripture:

Luke 6:23

Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Jesus said that after He stated the Beatitudes. :94:

Did you know that the word 'leap' or statement 'leap for joy' in three Biblical verses are the same Greek word

Strong's Number: 4640

Original Word Word Origin

skirtavw akin to skairo (to skip)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Skirtao 7:401,1046

Phonetic Spelling

skeer-tah'-o

Verb

Definition

1.to leap

King James Word Usage - Total: 3

leap 2, leap for joy 1

Lu 1:41

And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost

Lu 1:44

For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Lu 6:23

Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Sada

anakainosis · June 16, 2006

What are you talking about? MGR did not ever have anything to do with self mutilation and nor was he ever part of the Khlysty. What nerve do you have of spouting off that junk let alone not backing it up with anything in print...besides that guy up in Wash or Oreg....unless that's you.

Give your lies a rest please. I came on this site to have honest and truthful dialogue and not a rehashing of msn or yahoo molokan sites. Isn't it time to grow up and at like adults?

What proof do you have that mgr wasn't involved with the khlysti?

Whenever anyone quotes the various biographers of the day that studied mgr and his followers, the modern day maximisti discount and scoff at the proof that is given. The modern day maximisti claim the documentation to be an ecumenical 666 smear campaign.

mgr claimed the end of the world to be in 1857... 1857 came and went, and the loyal maximisti were still waiting the end of days. mgr then claimed the end of the world to be in 1860...1860 has come and gone, what happened to the end of the world?

Why do you and your father belong to churches that accept the spirit and Life and still keep it on your tables? Hypocrisy runs deep. You don't answer someone by throwing the question back into their face. You anti whatever types plain and simple do not have anything to back up your Khlysti connection rumors. Throughout your lives you will continue to deny your faith. That's ok, because no one ever said that the Spirit and Life was a requirement for salvation.

However, you deny your faith and walk closer and closer to your anti Christian friends in the Americanized world, and that can't bode well for your children's sake. (and their children) What will happen when they go to church? Will a Molokan church even exist. What you are doing is setting their children up for failure, because they will cease to know where they came from, and will not be able to differentiate themselves from 666 .

Hopefully you will read what I have written with some level of maturity and not insist to everyone that I meant to personally offend. Then again, you may not even read as far as this sentence.

God Bless.

Give your lies a rest please. I came on this site to have honest and truthful dialogue and not a rehashing of msn or yahoo molokan sites. Isn't it time to grow up and at like adults ?

:127:

anakainosis · June 16, 2006

I`m sorry sadichka, but if we interpret the bible as you do then we can justify drinking wine at weddings too.

Yes, there are two whole places in the bible that said people had ˜leaped for joy` but does it imply that it was a manifestation of the spirit as many believe? When the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus, did he jump?

Leaping is the sign of joy, as those portrayed in the bible. If we won the lotto we would leap for joy. If you want to leap for god then do so, I just hope you look joyful while doing it, because you wouldn`t be fulfilling the act, as it is portrayed in scripture. The ˜Leapers and Jumpers` like to wear a scowl look on their faces when they do it. I wonder why?

steadfast · June 16, 2006

To members of the 2 book molokans of this forum;

The action of the fetus John is better described as kick not leap. The fetus is suspended in fluid and most likely did not return to the original surface that it moved away from.

Back to trying to make "leap" the same as "pregunstva jumping". You won't find this style of worship performed by Jesus or the Apostles, who are our real forefathers and examples.

You two bookers put these released but biblically illiterate people (not all) back into bondage with your second book of Khlystic beliefs. All who participate, which includes the church onlookers that don't get involved, will reconcile with our Lord for your inaction. If you are not for Him , then you are against Him........ "Fence sitters are not allowed in Heaven."

steadfast · June 16, 2006

Quote Anakainosis; "Yes, there are two whole places in the bible that said people had ˜leaped for joy` but does it imply that it was a manifestation of the spirit as many believe?"

SADA, If "joy" was a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, I'm sure it would have been capitalized.

Nick Shubin · June 16, 2006

Why do you and your father belong to churches that accept the spirit and Life and still keep it on your tables? Hypocrisy runs deep. You don't answer someone by throwing the question back into their face. You anti whatever types plain and simple do not have anything to back up your Khlysti connection rumors. Throughout your lives you will continue to deny your faith. That's ok, because no one ever said that the Spirit and Life was a requirement for salvation.

However, you deny your faith and walk closer and closer to your anti Christian friends in the Americanized world, and that can't bode well for your children's sake. (and their children) What will happen when they go to church? Will a Molokan church even exist. What you are doing is setting their children up for failure, because they will cease to know where they came from, and will not be able to differentiate themselves from 666.

Hopefully you will read what I have written with some level of maturity and not insist to everyone that I meant to personally offend. Then again, you may not even read as far as this sentence.

God Bless.

Feeling a bit testy today ivan? Maybe you are having to many donuts...to much sugar is bad for your health! Try some bran muffins instead, it will keep ya regular.

Why do i and my father belong to these churches you ask? I guess it's because my Grandfather, who was Postayan, and didn't accept mgr,or the s&l belonged to such churches. I no longer have the s&l on my table, as my Grandfather before me. I can't control what the elders of the church i belong to have on the table.

You failed to prove that mgr wasn't a member of, or associated with the khlysty. I have documented evidence of his polygymy, of his unfulfilled prophecies, and his khlyst ties. It's written in russian, do you read russian? If so, come on over and have a look for yourself.

My Faith is solidly on the ROCK, in Jesus Christ who died and resurected for me, a miserable sinner. It is only through his cleansing blood that i am worthy of salvation!

Anti Christian friends? Americanized world? Last time i checked i wasn't Jewish, so i guess that makes me a gentile. Here is what scripture has to say about you dividing people into groups...from Collasians 3:11

11: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

How is that possible you ask? From Galatians 3:14

14: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

How do we come to this faith? By studying Gods word found in scripture. The Apostle Paul shares his knowledge with us gentiles so that we may be saved. From Ephesians 3

1: For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2: If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward:

3: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4: Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5: Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6: That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

So ivan, anyone that believes in Christ, and holds to His Gospel is to be considered a brother, even my ne-nash neighbor.

As to the rest of your rant, i will leave it be. Be well ivan the doughnut, and try a bran muffin.

sadichka · June 16, 2006

I`m sorry sadichka, but if we interpret the bible as you do then we can justify drinking wine at weddings too.

Jesus already did that. (John 2:1-11) I am glad that we don't have wine at our weddings. Chi is better.

Yes, there are two whole places in the bible that said people had ˜leaped for joy`...

Thank you for acknowledging that fact.

Leaping is the sign of joy, as those portrayed in the bible.

I can agree with that statement.

Sada

little koshka · June 17, 2006

:122:

Why do you and your father belong to churches that accept the spirit and Life and still keep it on your tables? Hypocrisy runs deep. You don't answer someone by throwing the question back into their face. You anti whatever types plain and simple do not have anything to back up your Khlysti connection rumors. Throughout your lives you will continue to deny your faith. That's ok, because no one ever said that the Spirit and Life was a requirement for salvation.

However, you deny your faith and walk closer and closer to your anti Christian friends in the Americanized world, and that can't bode well for your children's sake. (and their children) What will happen when they go to church? Will a Molokan church even exist. What you are doing is setting their children up for failure, because they will cease to know where they came from, and will not be able to differentiate themselves from 666.

Hopefully you will read what I have written with some level of maturity and not insist to everyone that I meant to personally offend. Then again, you may not even read as far as this sentence.

God Bless.

Feeling a bit testy today ivan? Maybe you are having to many donuts...to much sugar is bad for your health! Try some bran muffins instead, it will keep ya regular.

Why do i and my father belong to these churches you ask? I guess it's because my Grandfather, who was Postayan, and didn't accept mgr,or the s&l belonged to such churches. I no longer have the s&l on my table, as my Grandfather before me. I can't control what the elders of the church i belong to have on the table.

You failed to prove that mgr wasn't a member of, or associated with the khlysty. I have documented evidence of his polygymy, of his unfulfilled prophecies, and his khlyst ties. It's written in russian, do you read russian? If so, come on over and have a look for yourself.

My Faith is solidly on the ROCK, in Jesus Christ who died and resurected for me, a miserable sinner. It is only through his cleansing blood that i am worthy of salvation!

Anti Christian friends? Americanized world? Last time i checked i wasn't Jewish, so i guess that makes me a gentile. Here is what scripture has to say about you dividing people into groups...from Collasians 3:11

11: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

How is that possible you ask? From Galatians 3:14

14: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

How do we come to this faith? By studying Gods word found in scripture. The Apostle Paul shares his knowledge with us gentiles so that we may be saved. From Ephesians 3

1: For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2: If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward:

3: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4: Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5: Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6: That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

So ivan, anyone that believes in Christ, and holds to His Gospel is to be considered a brother, even my ne-nash neighbor.

As to the rest of your rant, i will leave it be. Be well ivan the doughnut, and try a bran muffin.

Mr. Ed · June 17, 2006

Why do you and your father belong to churches that accept the spirit and Life and still keep it on your tables? Hypocrisy runs deep. You don't answer someone by throwing the question back into their face. You anti whatever types plain and simple do not have anything to back up your Khlysti connection rumors. Throughout your lives you will continue to deny your faith. That's ok, because no one ever said that the Spirit and Life was a requirement for salvation.

However, you deny your faith and walk closer and closer to your anti Christian friends in the Americanized world, and that can't bode well for your children's sake. (and their children) What will happen when they go to church? Will a Molokan church even exist. What you are doing is setting their children up for failure, because they will cease to know where they came from, and will not be able to differentiate themselves from 666.

Hopefully you will read what I have written with some level of maturity and not insist to everyone that I meant to personally offend. Then again, you may not even read as far as this sentence.

God Bless.

Feeling a bit testy today ivan? Maybe you are having to many donuts...to much sugar is bad for your health! Try some bran muffins instead, it will keep ya regular.

Why do i and my father belong to these churches you ask? I guess it's because my Grandfather, who was Postayan, and didn't accept mgr,or the s&l belonged to such churches. I no longer have the s&l on my table, as my Grandfather before me. I can't control what the elders of the church i belong to have on the table.

You failed to prove that mgr wasn't a member of, or associated with the khlysty. I have documented evidence of his polygymy, of his unfulfilled prophecies, and his khlyst ties. It's written in russian, do you read russian? If so, come on over and have a look for yourself.

My Faith is solidly on the ROCK, in Jesus Christ who died and resurected for me, a miserable sinner. It is only through his cleansing blood that i am worthy of salvation!

Anti Christian friends? Americanized world? Last time i checked i wasn't Jewish, so i guess that makes me a gentile. Here is what scripture has to say about you dividing people into groups...from Collasians 3:11

11: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

How is that possible you ask? From Galatians 3:14

14: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

How do we come to this faith? By studying Gods word found in scripture. The Apostle Paul shares his knowledge with us gentiles so that we may be saved. From Ephesians 3

1: For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2: If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward:

3: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4: Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5: Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6: That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

So ivan, anyone that believes in Christ, and holds to His Gospel is to be considered a brother, even my ne-nash neighbor.

As to the rest of your rant, i will leave it be. Be well ivan the doughnut, and try a bran muffin.

Just a simple question, why do you still attend a Priguni "Maximisti" Molokan Church?

Nick Shubin · June 17, 2006

Why do you and your father belong to churches that accept the spirit and Life and still keep it on your tables? Hypocrisy runs deep. You don't answer someone by throwing the question back into their face. You anti whatever types plain and simple do not have anything to back up your Khlysti connection rumors. Throughout your lives you will continue to deny your faith. That's ok, because no one ever said that the Spirit and Life was a requirement for salvation.

However, you deny your faith and walk closer and closer to your anti Christian friends in the Americanized world, and that can't bode well for your children's sake. (and their children) What will happen when they go to church? Will a Molokan church even exist. What you are doing is setting their children up for failure, because they will cease to know where they came from, and will not be able to differentiate themselves from 666.

Hopefully you will read what I have written with some level of maturity and not insist to everyone that I meant to personally offend. Then again, you may not even read as far as this sentence.

God Bless.

Feeling a bit testy today ivan? Maybe you are having to many donuts...to much sugar is bad for your health! Try some bran muffins instead, it will keep ya regular.

Why do i and my father belong to these churches you ask? I guess it's because my Grandfather, who was Postayan, and didn't accept mgr,or the s&l belonged to such churches. I no longer have the s&l on my table, as my Grandfather before me. I can't control what the elders of the church i belong to have on the table.

You failed to prove that mgr wasn't a member of, or associated with the khlysty. I have documented evidence of his polygymy, of his unfulfilled prophecies, and his khlyst ties. It's written in russian, do you read russian? If so, come on over and have a look for yourself.

My Faith is solidly on the ROCK, in Jesus Christ who died and resurected for me, a miserable sinner. It is only through his cleansing blood that i am worthy of salvation!

Anti Christian friends? Americanized world? Last time i checked i wasn't Jewish, so i guess that makes me a gentile. Here is what scripture has to say about you dividing people into groups...from Collasians 3:11

11: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

How is that possible you ask? From Galatians 3:14

14: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

How do we come to this faith? By studying Gods word found in scripture. The Apostle Paul shares his knowledge with us gentiles so that we may be saved. From Ephesians 3

1: For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2: If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward:

3: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4: Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5: Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6: That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

So ivan, anyone that believes in Christ, and holds to His Gospel is to be considered a brother, even my ne-nash neighbor.

As to the rest of your rant, i will leave it be. Be well ivan the doughnut, and try a bran muffin.

Just a simple question, why do you still attend a Priguni "Maximisti" Molokan Church?

Hi Mr.Ed, that's a good question!

Unlike some on this site, i believe in the physical manifistation of the Holy Spirit. So belonging to a "prigun" church is not troubling. There were jumpers before mgr came on the scene, and there were jumpers that did not accept him when when he did appear on the scene. I am not saying that i am postayan, rather i was showing presidence to dear ivan as to why i belong to a molokan church.

The maximist part on the other hand is very troubling!

steadfast · June 17, 2006

Quote Poopsqually; "I believe in the physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit'

Are they in agreement with God's list of manifestations found in 1 Cor 12:7-11? Do you have others?...... Respectfully, Thank you in advance. S

Nick Shubin · June 17, 2006

Quote Poopsqually; "I believe in the physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit'

Are they in agreement with God's list of manifestations found in 1 Cor 12:7-11? Do you have others?...... Respectfully, Thank you in advance. S

Dear Steadfast, Are you beliefs 100% according to scripture? You have gone on a campaign to attack everyone, Heaven will be a lonly place if you are the only one there.

steadfast · June 17, 2006

Quote Poopsqually; "I believe in the physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit'

Are they in agreement with God's list of manifestations found in 1 Cor 12:7-11? Do you have others?...... Respectfully, Thank you in advance. S

Dear Steadfast, Are you beliefs 100% according to scripture? You have gone on a campaign to attack everyone, Heaven will be a lonly place if you are the only one there.

Not to attack, but I have gone on a campaign to TEST everyone, family, friends, church etc. Scripture does tells us to discern. I will condemn NO ONE, that is one of the functions of God's spoken and written Word.

Are my beliefs 100% scriptural? They are as scriptural as God has disclosed to me according to His will. His advise still stands, test and hold fast, love the truth and continue to seek it.

I noticed you didn't answer my question. I'm testing, not attacking Poopsqually's beliefs on the physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

Thank You in advance for your sincere answers....S

seeking_truth_1 · February 9, 2009

When the Lord ascended, the comforter was sent to those left behind

""Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you." (John 16:7 NKJV)

""But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." (John 14:26 NKJV)

"1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.

3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and [one] sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:1-4 NKJV)

Why didn't anyone "leap"?

It would seem to me that if jumping is really a manifestation of the Holy Spirit it would have been manifest, on this of all days, when the realization of the Lord's promise the Holy Spirit would indwell His people

Wouldn't you think?

seeking_truth_1 · February 9, 2009

To add a bit more spring to the subject...

This excerpt was take from a post by coffee

Note the reference to Danilo Filipov

<<snip>>
Historical references about perhaps the most legendary "christ" among the Khlysty, whose name was Danilo Filipov, describe the experience he had when he believed that he had become "God" on earth. Historians wrote that Filipov was preeminent among the spiritual founders of the Khlysty because he was not merely "Christ", but "God Sabaoth" Himself.

This man was "godded", to use an old English word, by the descent of God himself upon Filipov, out of the seventh heaven, in the shape of a bright falcon. As the incarnation of God himself, Filipov had priority in rank above all other "Christs" of the sect of Khlystovschina.

Among the Khlysty, this "experience" of their "christs" becoming "God of the earth" is the result of how they spiritualized the following text that is found in the Scriptures:

The first man is from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is the Lord from heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:47)

This "experience" is found in the writings of Rudometkin, in the Spirit and Life book:

Although I, by my first birth, am a man of sinful bones, but by my second birth, I am the Lord Himself, from heaven. (Page 415, Book 7, Article 27, Verses 6-8)

According to the belief system of the Khlysty, once this "experience" took place, this event known as the "spiritual birth", which the historians refer to as being "godded", resulted in the emergence of a "christ" who became a spiritual "king" and leader over his followers. From that point in time forward, this man was believed by his followers to be the physical incarnation of "Christ" on earth, just as Jesus was.<<snip>>

<<snip>>

Danilo Filipov a.k.a ***** Phillipov was a Khlyst advocating a type of "super - puritanism" but the central rites of the Khlyst was more like a orgy than anything resembling a Church service

These rites included dressing in all white, dancing and chanting rhythmically, flagellating (beating / mutilating) one another and ultimately ending up as a large orgy

Looks like the prophets of baals influence still exists

April 8, 2009

When the Lord ascended, the comforter was sent to those left behind

""Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you." (John 16:7 NKJV)

""But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." (John 14:26 NKJV)

"1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.

3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and [one] sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:1-4 NKJV)

Why didn't anyone "leap"?

It would seem to me that if jumping is really a manifestation of the Holy Spirit it would have been manifest, on this of all days, when the realization of the Lord's promise the Holy Spirit would indwell His people

Wouldn't you think?

When the Apostles received the gift of the Holy Spirit the started to speak in tongues, but receiving the gifts of Holy Spirit is not only shown by speaking in tongues. It can be shown throw different ways, Prophecies, healing, casting out demons, jumping and leaping etc. Their mite be a person that sits quit at the back of the church and yet he mite have the holy spirit.

Hebrews 2:4 "While God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will."

so it is Gods will to distribute the gifts of Holy Spirit in different forms.

2 Samuel 6:16 "As the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal the daughter of Saul looked out of the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the Lord, and she despised him in her heart."

seeking_truth_1 · April 9, 2009

I cannot, nor would I, place God in a box

So to say that jumping could be a manifestation of the Spirit is within the broadest realm of possibility

However, there is no Biblical basis for the practice, so you would be on your own to say it's definitively of God

Can someone rhythmically jump as a form of worship, I guess...but you could not attribute it to anything found in contextual Scripture references

There is Biblical precedence for speaking in tongues as you cited in Scripture

The following was from another thread, but it applies here also

How was David jumping?

Why was David jumping?

Was David jumping as a result of a "manifestation" of the Holy Spirit or for another reason?

Were David or the "lame man" molokans? (Acts 3:7)

If the passages you cited are being used to support rhythmic jumping as a "manifestation" of the "spirit" and David and the "lame man" jumped, could David or the "lame man" join a molokan "church" - especially as you seem to be indicating it's the same spirit?

“1 Peter and John went to the Temple one afternoon to take part in the three o’clock prayer service.

2 As they approached the Temple, a man lame from birth was being carried in. Each day he was put beside the Temple gate, the one called the Beautiful Gate, so he could beg from the people going into the Temple.

3 When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for some money.

4 Peter and John looked at him intently, and Peter said, “Look at us!”

5 The lame man looked at them eagerly, expecting some money.

6 But Peter said, “I don’t have any silver or gold for you. But I’ll give you what I have. In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, get up and walk!”

7 Then Peter took the lame man by the right hand and helped him up. And as he did, the man’s feet and ankles were instantly healed and strengthened.

8 He jumped up, stood on his feet, and began to walk! Then, walking, leaping, and praising God, he went into the Temple with them.

9 All the people saw him walking and heard him praising God.” (Acts 3:1-9 NLT)

Here are the questions again

When the Lord ascended, the comforter was sent to those left behind

""Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you." (John 16:7 NKJV)

""But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." (John 14:26 NKJV)

"1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.

3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and [one] sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:1-4 NKJV)

Why didn't anyone "leap"?

It would seem to me that if jumping is really a manifestation of the Holy Spirit it would have been manifest, on this of all days, when the realization of the Lord's promise the Holy Spirit would indwell His people

Wouldn't you think?

When the Apostles received the gift of the Holy Spirit the started to speak in tongues, but receiving the gifts of Holy Spirit is not only shown by speaking in tongues. It can be shown throw different ways, Prophecies, healing, casting out demons, jumping and leaping etc. Their mite be a person that sits quit at the back of the church and yet he mite have the holy spirit.

Hebrews 2:4 "While God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will."

so it is Gods will to distribute the gifts of Holy Spirit in different forms.

2 Samuel 6:16 "As the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal the daughter of Saul looked out of the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the Lord, and she despised him in her heart."

seeking_truth_1 · April 11, 2009

What are the traits of the Khlyst

Now I know wikipedia is not the best source, but for the time being it'll do...

'Khlyst', the name commonly applied to them, is a distortion of the name they used; the original name was the invented word Христоверы (Khristovery, "Christ-believers") or Христы (Khristy); their critics corrupted the name, mixing it with the word хлыст (khlyst), meaning "a whip".

Now from dictionary.com, Khlysts are defined as

a member of a rigorously ascetic Russian sect originating in the 17th century and believing that each successive leader of the sect was an incarnation of Christ.

We've been over the rest already

My mgr's claims to be "Christ" certainly would put him into the running of being a Khlyst

Do your research

If ITD Want to make a case for jumping using Scripture, he will need to look at ALL passages that refer to jumping/leaping

As you can see from the passage below, I can just as easily make a case for jumping AND self mutilation

You might want to do some research on Baal and the false prophets

By the way, the Khlysty (mgr) also advocated self-mutilation just like the Muslim and the prophets of Baal did/do

The story doesn't end well for the "leapers"

And Elijah said to them, "Seize the prophets of Baal! Do not let one of them escape!" So they seized them; and Elijah brought them down to the Brook Kishon and executed them there. 1 Kings 18:40 NKJV

________________________________________________________________

What are you talking about? MGR did not ever have anything to do with self mutilation and nor was he ever part of the Khlysty. What nerve do you have of spouting off that junk let alone not backing it up with anything in print...besides that guy up in Wash or Oreg....unless that's you.

Give your lies a rest please. I came on this site to have honest and truthful dialogue and not a rehashing of msn or yahoo molokan sites. Isn't it time to grow up and at like adults?

April 12, 2009

What are the traits of the Khlyst

Now I know wikipedia is not the best source, but for the time being it'll do...

'Khlyst', the name commonly applied to them, is a distortion of the name they used; the original name was the invented word Христоверы (Khristovery, "Christ-believers") or Христы (Khristy); their critics corrupted the name, mixing it with the word хлыст (khlyst), meaning "a whip".

Now from dictionary.com, Khlysts are defined as

a member of a rigorously ascetic Russian sect originating in the 17th century and believing that each successive leader of the sect was an incarnation of Christ.

We've been over the rest already

My mgr's claims to be "Christ" certainly would put him into the running of being a Khlyst

Do your research

If ITD Want to make a case for jumping using Scripture, he will need to look at ALL passages that refer to jumping/leaping

As you can see from the passage below, I can just as easily make a case for jumping AND self mutilation

You might want to do some research on Baal and the false prophets

By the way, the Khlysty (mgr) also advocated self-mutilation just like the Muslim and the prophets of Baal did/do

The story doesn't end well for the "leapers"

And Elijah said to them, "Seize the prophets of Baal! Do not let one of them escape!" So they seized them; and Elijah brought them down to the Brook Kishon and executed them there. 1 Kings 18:40 NKJV

________________________________________________________________

What are you talking about? MGR did not ever have anything to do with self mutilation and nor was he ever part of the Khlysty. What nerve do you have of spouting off that junk let alone not backing it up with anything in print...besides that guy up in Wash or Oreg....unless that's you.

Give your lies a rest please. I came on this site to have honest and truthful dialogue and not a rehashing of msn or yahoo molokan sites. Isn't it time to grow up and at like adults?

I came across lots of people that think exactly like you that just pick small verse rather then reading the whole article or chapter to have the true meaning. You should read not only Page 415, Book 7, Article 27, Verses 6-8 but also Verse 9. "For the Lord is Spirit....." therefore when he meant the second birth he means to receive the Holy Spirit.

MGR writes "Although the first birth a man is born of sin bone, but by the second birth is the Lord Himself from heaven." I don't see MGR wrote "My first birth is born..." but instead he wrote " ...a man is born..."

Therefore MGR does not right that he is Christ himself but instead we are born again when we receive the Holy Spirit. E.g. When a man lives his life with out the Holy Spirit (No love, patients, kindness, etc.) and then receives the Holy Spirit (Has love, patients, kindness etc.) he becomes a totally different person, in other words he is re-born.

seeking_truth_1 · April 12, 2009

I have read quite a bit of the s&l at there are things that may sound "good" or Biblically "sound" but where things go off is when mgr claims to be the "Messiah" thereby completely eliminting any credibilty he might have

mgr makes this claim

"And I am the 7 story heavenly ladder, by which the prayers of the holy ones forever ascend and descend" mgr 8:14:32

Yet Jacob has a vision in Genesis regarding a ladder

"10 Now Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Haran.

11 So he came to a certain place and stayed there all night, because the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of that place and put it at his head, and he lay down in that place to sleep.

12 Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder [was] set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.

13 And behold, the LORD stood above it and said: "I [am] the LORD God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants.

14 "Also your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you shall spread abroad to the west and the east, to the north and the south; and in you and in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

15 "Behold, I [am] with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have spoken to you." (Genesis 28:10-15 NKJV)

Is Jacob having a vision of mgr as this ladder?

Now wait a minute...Let look a bit further in Scripture to see

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!"

48 Nathanael said to Him, "How do You know me?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."

49 Nathanael answered and said to Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!"

50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you, ˜I saw you under the fig tree,` do you believe? You will see greater things than these."

51 And He said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man." (John 1:47-51 NKJV)

Is mgr again claiming to be the Messiah?

Here's are more overt references to himself

In Book 10:12 MGR as spirit (v1) king (v1) and prophet (v1), the palm-tree pillar (v3) , the gates of Zion (v5) , the seven-story ladder (v7), the white steed (v8), and the Divine messenger the two-winged falcon (v11).

It's there and in the context of the passages, mgr is attempting to usurp the authority of Jesus

If God is Spirit, how can mgr be a "spirit king"?

This makes no sense in the light of Scripture (The Bible)

April 13, 2009

I have read quite a bit of the s&l at there are things that may sound "good" or Biblically "sound" but where things go off is when mgr claims to be the "Messiah" thereby completely eliminting any credibilty he might have

mgr makes this claim

"And I am the 7 story heavenly ladder, by which the prayers of the holy ones forever ascend and descend" mgr 8:14:32

Yet Jacob has a vision in Genesis regarding a ladder

"10 Now Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Haran.

11 So he came to a certain place and stayed there all night, because the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of that place and put it at his head, and he lay down in that place to sleep.

12 Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder [was] set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.

13 And behold, the LORD stood above it and said: "I [am] the LORD God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants.

14 "Also your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you shall spread abroad to the west and the east, to the north and the south; and in you and in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

15 "Behold, I [am] with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have spoken to you." (Genesis 28:10-15 NKJV)

Is Jacob having a vision of mgr as this ladder?

Now wait a minute...Let look a bit further in Scripture to see

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!"

48 Nathanael said to Him, "How do You know me?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."

49 Nathanael answered and said to Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!"

50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you, ˜I saw you under the fig tree,` do you believe? You will see greater things than these."

51 And He said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man." (John 1:47-51 NKJV)

Is mgr again claiming to be the Messiah?

Here's are more overt references to himself

In Book 10:12 MGR as spirit (v1) king (v1) and prophet (v1), the palm-tree pillar (v3) , the gates of Zion (v5) , the seven-story ladder (v7), the white steed (v8), and the Divine messenger the two-winged falcon (v11).

It's there and in the context of the passages, mgr is attempting to usurp the authority of Jesus

If God is Spirit, how can mgr be a "spirit king"?

This makes no sense in the light of Scripture (The Bible)

Again, lets read the whole article not just pick small parts. Book 10:12 v1 "For in the Spirit I am king and prophet..." Therefore when the Holy Spirit descended on MGR it was the Holy Spirit that wrote. v11 "Because in the Spirit of the Lord I am the Divine messenger... " Again when he is in the Holy Spirit.

Therefore when MGR wrote some of his articles it was not him but the Holy Spirit that dwelt in him and that is why everyone thinks that MGR called himself Messiah but it was actually the Holy Spirit. (The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, three as one)

seeking_truth_1 · April 13, 2009

If you are asserting that mgr wrote under direction the Holy Spirit of God (YHVH) then why would his writings contain things that are contrary to Gods Word (the Bible)?

How can God contradict Himself?

"Every word of God [is] pure; He [is] a shield to those who put their trust in Him." (Proverbs 30:5 NKJV)

Yet mgr would write this about himself

The Holy Spirit is not a man but Spirit, so how can the Holy Spirit be a man born on the Earth claiming to be the "New Jewish Messiah"

Pg. 526 Bk. 10 Art. 31 Ver. 1

The writer of this message is a man, by birth a resident of this world, named Ulesar, the King Ures, the new Jewish Messiah. [Christ]

Why would anyone sing worship songs to someone claiming to be "Christ" when there's only One

Pg. 585 Bk. 13 Art. 12 Ver. 6

And they sang a song. "Hosanna unto the highest; blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, the King of Spirits --the leader of the new Israel--Hosanna Naraftan [M.G.R.]."

There's only ONE Prince of Peace, yet mgr would seem to take that title for himself

pg. 580 Bk. 13 Art. 6 Ver. 1-2

Thus I [M.G.R.] am called by a new name, which I have written here in the lines for you by the testimony of the true Spirit.

The first name is Enfayil--from God. The second is Savakhan--King of the promise. The third is Ulia-Yar--the Prince of Peace, father of the age hereafter.

Yet the Bible has assigned that title to another

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaish 9:6 NKJV)

You certainly cannot assert Isaiah is speaking about mgr, are you?

How can someone, allegedly writing under influence of the Holy Spirit of God, miss this one...?

Pg. 494 Bk. 10 Art. 5 Ver. 5-7

For truly I [M.G.R.] lie not, but speak all of this according to the Spirit. Concerning this ecumenical spirit of the people shouts in agreement with me in every place. "Gracious is the passing nineteenth century!" During it the Lord God Almighty will Himself before our eyes execute His judgement upon the harlot and the beast who bears her. Then He will establish for us upon the land that which Adam and Eve once had in Paradise,

I don't see a paradise on Earth as it was in the time of Adam and Eve

Women still experience pain in birth

Men sweat when toiling at work

Seems to me it's not Paradise

"16 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire [shall be] for your husband, And he shall rule over you."

17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed [is] the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat [of] it All the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you [are], And to dust you shall return."" (Genesis 3:16-19 NKJV)

Again, lets read the whole article not just pick small parts. Book 10:12 v1 "For in the Spirit I am king and prophet..." Therefore when the Holy Spirit descended on MGR it was the Holy Spirit that wrote. v11 "Because in the Spirit of the Lord I am the Divine messenger... " Again when he is in the Holy Spirit.

Therefore when MGR wrote some of his articles it was not him but the Holy Spirit that dwelt in him and that is why everyone thinks that MGR called himself Messiah but it was actually the Holy Spirit. (The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, three as one)

April 14, 2009

Type in "Jewish Messiah" into wikipedia and this is what you would get.

"Messiah (Hebrew: משיח‎; mashiah, moshiah, mashiach, or moshiach, ("anointed [one]") is a term used in the Hebrew Bible to describe priests and kings, who were traditionally anointed with the holy anointing oil..."

Therefor in Pg. 526 Bk. 10 Art. 31 Ver. 1

"The writer of this message is a man, by birth a resident of this world, named Ulesar, the King Ures, the new Jewish Messiah."

So MGR was named Ulesar, the King Ures, the new Jewish Messiah. which means he is anointed one(king or priest) new Jew(new Israel/ molokans).

As the old Israel had Moses as The Muslims have Mohamed and The Molokans have MGR and Jesus Christ has authority over them all.

Pg. 585 Bk. 13 Art. 12 When we read the whole article we know that MGR wrote about a vision he saw:

v4 Two men in his vison said: "...His portion is the cross..." this means that "His" MGR portion and not the Spirits. Also in v7 MGR wrote "I(MGR) wrote down these words for myself and my faithful to remember. Therefore this Article was write by MGR and that the two men in his vision sang to MGR and not to the Spirit.

Pg. 585 Bk. 13 Art. 12 Ver. 6

"And they sang a song. "Hosanna unto the highest; blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, the King of Spirits --the leader of the new Israel--Hosanna Naraftan [M.G.R.]."

I have marked the King of Spirits because it is the wrong translation from the Russian 1st Edition to English. The true translation is "the king of the spiritual"(he King of the new Israel/Spiritual Christians/Molokans) There fore they are singing about MGR ad not the Spirit.

Pg. 494 Bk. 10 Art. 5 Ver. 5-7

"For truly I [M.G.R.] lie not, but speak all of this according to the Spirit. Concerning this ecumenical spirit of the people shouts in agreement with me in every place. "Gracious is the passing nineteenth century!" During it the Lord God Almighty will Himself before our eyes execute His judgement upon the harlot and the beast who bears her. Then He will establish for us upon the land that which Adam and Eve once had in Paradise.."

It is actually the people believed that this is going to happen in the nineteenth century not MGR.

Also you forgot the most impotent thing at the end of verse 7 "...Adam and Eve once had in Paradise, and perhaps even better by a hundred-fold."

This clearly shows that the people and not MGR that said perhaps. The Holy Spirit that dwelt in MGR would not have said perhaps

"Every word of God [is] pure; He [is] a shield to those who put their trust in Him." (Proverbs 30:5)

seeking_truth_1 to my knowledge you are a Christian?

If so I have a couple of questions for you to answer and if your not a Christian or already do these thing that are written below then just let me know what your beliefs are (Jew, Muslim, Catholic etc.).

1 Corinthians 11

1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.

2 Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.

3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head,

5 but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven.

6 For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.

7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.

So why don't the Christian ladies cover their head when the pray, that is "dishonors her head" or cut her hair short for that is also "disgraceful"?

Matthew 19

1 Now when Jesus had finished these sayings, he went away from Galilee and entered the region of Judea beyond the Jordan.

2 And large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.

3 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?”

4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female,

5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?

6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?”

8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

So why do Christian divorces(for other reason not sexual immorality i.e. money, stress, lack of love, etc.) and marries another? Jesus said it is committing adultery.

Romans 3:27-31

27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,

30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Matthew 5:17-20

17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a ****************, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

So why don't the Christians uphold the Law and teach others to do the same?

please answer these questions before you ask me more questions for I have answered your questions. Thank you.

If you are asserting that mgr wrote under direction the Holy Spirit of God (YHVH) then why would his writings contain things that are contrary to Gods Word (the Bible)?

How can God contradict Himself?

"Every word of God [is] pure; He [is] a shield to those who put their trust in Him." (Proverbs 30:5 NKJV)

Yet mgr would write this about himself

The Holy Spirit is not a man but Spirit, so how can the Holy Spirit be a man born on the Earth claiming to be the "New Jewish Messiah"

Pg. 526 Bk. 10 Art. 31 Ver. 1

The writer of this message is a man, by birth a resident of this world, named Ulesar, the King Ures, the new Jewish Messiah. [Christ]

Why would anyone sing worship songs to someone claiming to be "Christ" when there's only One

Pg. 585 Bk. 13 Art. 12 Ver. 6

And they sang a song. "Hosanna unto the highest; blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, the King of Spirits --the leader of the new Israel--Hosanna Naraftan [M.G.R.]."

There's only ONE Prince of Peace, yet mgr would seem to take that title for himself

pg. 580 Bk. 13 Art. 6 Ver. 1-2

Thus I [M.G.R.] am called by a new name, which I have written here in the lines for you by the testimony of the true Spirit.

The first name is Enfayil--from God. The second is Savakhan--King of the promise. The third is Ulia-Yar--the Prince of Peace, father of the age hereafter.

Yet the Bible has assigned that title to another

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaish 9:6 NKJV)

You certainly cannot assert Isaiah is speaking about mgr, are you?

How can someone, allegedly writing under influence of the Holy Spirit of God, miss this one...?

Pg. 494 Bk. 10 Art. 5 Ver. 5-7

For truly I [M.G.R.] lie not, but speak all of this according to the Spirit. Concerning this ecumenical spirit of the people shouts in agreement with me in every place. "Gracious is the passing nineteenth century!" During it the Lord God Almighty will Himself before our eyes execute His judgement upon the harlot and the beast who bears her. Then He will establish for us upon the land that which Adam and Eve once had in Paradise,

I don't see a paradise on Earth as it was in the time of Adam and Eve

Women still experience pain in birth

Men sweat when toiling at work

Seems to me it's not Paradise

"16 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire [shall be] for your husband, And he shall rule over you."

17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed [is] the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat [of] it All the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you [are], And to dust you shall return."" (Genesis 3:16-19 NKJV)

April 15, 2009

Type in "Jewish Messiah" into wikipedia and this is what you would get.

"Messiah (Hebrew: משיח‎; mashiah, moshiah, mashiach, or moshiach, ("anointed [one]") is a term used in the Hebrew Bible to describe priests and kings, who were traditionally anointed with the holy anointing oil..."

Therefore in Pg. 526 Bk. 10 Art. 31 Ver. 1

"The writer of this message is a man, by birth a resident of this world, named Ulesar, the King Ures, the new Jewish Messiah."

So MGR was named Ulesar, the King Ures, the new Jewish Messiah. which means he is anointed one(king or priest) new Jew(new Israel/ molokans).

As the old Israel had Moses as The Muslims have Mohamed and The Molokans have MGR and Jesus Christ has authority over them all.

Pg. 585 Bk. 13 Art. 12 When we read the whole article we know that MGR wrote about a vision he saw:

v4 Two men in his vision said: "...His portion is the cross..." this means that "His" MGR portion and not the Spirits. Also in v7 MGR wrote "I (MGR) wrote down these words for myself and my faithful to remember. Therefore this Article was writen by MGR and that the two men in his vision sang to MGR and not to the Spirit.

Pg. 585 Bk. 13 Art. 12 Ver. 6

"And they sang a song. "Hosanna unto the highest; blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, the King of Spirits --the leader of the new Israel--Hosanna Naraftan [M.G.R.]."

I have marked the King of Spirits because it is the wrong translation from the Russian 1st Edition to English. The true translation is "the king of the spiritual"(he King of the new Israel/Spiritual Christians/Molokans) Therefore they are singing about MGR and not the Spirit.

Pg. 494 Bk. 10 Art. 5 Ver. 5-7

"For truly I [M.G.R.] lie not, but speak all of this according to the Spirit. Concerning this ecumenical spirit of the people shouts in agreement with me in every place. "Gracious is the passing nineteenth century!" During it the Lord God Almighty will Himself before our eyes execute His judgement upon the harlot and the beast who bears her. Then He will establish for us upon the land that which Adam and Eve once had in Paradise.."

It is actually the people believed that this is going to happen in the nineteenth century not MGR.

Also you forgot the most impotent thing at the end of verse 7 "...Adam and Eve once had in Paradise, and perhaps even better by a hundred-fold."

This clearly shows that the people and not MGR that said perhaps. The Holy Spirit that dwelt in MGR would not have said perhaps

"Every word of God [is] pure; He [is] a shield to those who put their trust in Him." (Proverbs 30:5)

seeking_truth_1 to my knowledge you are a Christian?

If so I have a couple of questions for you to answer and if your not a Christian or already do these thing that are written below then just let me know what your beliefs are (Jew, Muslim, Catholic etc.).

1 Corinthians 11

1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.

2 Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.

3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head,

5 but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven.

6 For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.

7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.

So why don't the Christian ladies cover their head when the pray, that "dishonours her head" or cut her hair short for that is also "disgraceful"?

Matthew 19

1 Now when Jesus had finished these sayings, he went away from Galilee and entered the region of Judea beyond the Jordan.

2 And large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.

3 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?”

4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female,

5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?

6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?”

8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

So why do Christian divorces (for other reason not sexual immorality i.e. money, stress, lack of love, etc.) and marries another? Jesus said it is committing adultery.

Romans 3:27-31

27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,

30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Matthew 5:17-20

17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a ****************, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

So why don't the Christians uphold the Law and teach others to do the same?

I am not tiring to bash someone but to find answer because every time I ask some Christians these questions they never answer me hopefully someone can

If you are asserting that mgr wrote under direction the Holy Spirit of God (YHVH) then why would his writings contain things that are contrary to Gods Word (the Bible)?

How can God contradict Himself?

"Every word of God [is] pure; He [is] a shield to those who put their trust in Him." (Proverbs 30:5 NKJV)

Yet mgr would write this about himself

The Holy Spirit is not a man but Spirit, so how can the Holy Spirit be a man born on the Earth claiming to be the "New Jewish Messiah"

Pg. 526 Bk. 10 Art. 31 Ver. 1

The writer of this message is a man, by birth a resident of this world, named Ulesar, the King Ures, the new Jewish Messiah. [Christ]

Why would anyone sing worship songs to someone claiming to be "Christ" when there's only One

Pg. 585 Bk. 13 Art. 12 Ver. 6

And they sang a song. "Hosanna unto the highest; blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, the King of Spirits --the leader of the new Israel--Hosanna Naraftan [M.G.R.]."

There's only ONE Prince of Peace, yet mgr would seem to take that title for himself

pg. 580 Bk. 13 Art. 6 Ver. 1-2

Thus I [M.G.R.] am called by a new name, which I have written here in the lines for you by the testimony of the true Spirit.

The first name is Enfayil--from God. The second is Savakhan--King of the promise. The third is Ulia-Yar--the Prince of Peace, father of the age hereafter.

Yet the Bible has assigned that title to another

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaish 9:6 NKJV)

You certainly cannot assert Isaiah is speaking about mgr, are you?

How can someone, allegedly writing under influence of the Holy Spirit of God, miss this one...?

Pg. 494 Bk. 10 Art. 5 Ver. 5-7

For truly I [M.G.R.] lie not, but speak all of this according to the Spirit. Concerning this ecumenical spirit of the people shouts in agreement with me in every place. "Gracious is the passing nineteenth century!" During it the Lord God Almighty will Himself before our eyes execute His judgement upon the harlot and the beast who bears her. Then He will establish for us upon the land that which Adam and Eve once had in Paradise,

I don't see a paradise on Earth as it was in the time of Adam and Eve

Women still experience pain in birth

Men sweat when toiling at work

Seems to me it's not Paradise

"16 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire [shall be] for your husband, And he shall rule over you."

17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed [is] the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat [of] it All the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you [are], And to dust you shall return."" (Genesis 3:16-19 NKJV)

Again, lets read the whole article not just pick small parts. Book 10:12 v1 "For in the Spirit I am king and prophet..." Therefore when the Holy Spirit descended on MGR it was the Holy Spirit that wrote. v11 "Because in the Spirit of the Lord I am the Divine messenger... " Again when he is in the Holy Spirit.

Therefore when MGR wrote some of his articles it was not him but the Holy Spirit that dwelt in him and that is why everyone thinks that MGR called himself Messiah but it was actually the Holy Spirit. (The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, three as one)

April 15, 2009

Type in "Jewish Messiah" into wikipedia and this is what you would get.

"Messiah (Hebrew: משיח‎; mashiah, moshiah, mashiach, or moshiach, ("anointed [one]") is a term used in the Hebrew Bible to describe priests and kings, who were traditionally anointed with the holy anointing oil..."

Therefore in Pg. 526 Bk. 10 Art. 31 Ver. 1

"The writer of this message is a man, by birth a resident of this world, named Ulesar, the King Ures, the new Jewish Messiah."

So MGR was named Ulesar, the King Ures, the new Jewish Messiah. which means he is anointed one(king or priest) new Jew(new Israel/ molokans).

As the old Israel had Moses as The Muslims have Mohamed and The Molokans have MGR and Jesus Christ has authority over them all.

Pg. 585 Bk. 13 Art. 12 When we read the whole article we know that MGR wrote about a vision he saw:

v4 Two men in his vision said: "...His portion is the cross..." this means that "His" MGR portion and not the Spirits. Also in v7 MGR wrote "I (MGR) wrote down these words for myself and my faithful to remember. Therefore this Article was writen by MGR and that the two men in his vision sang to MGR and not to the Spirit.

Pg. 585 Bk. 13 Art. 12 Ver. 6

"And they sang a song. "Hosanna unto the highest; blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, the King of Spirits --the leader of the new Israel--Hosanna Naraftan [M.G.R.]."

I have marked the King of Spirits because it is the wrong translation from the Russian 1st Edition to English. The true translation is "the king of the spiritual"(he King of the new Israel/Spiritual Christians/Molokans) Therefore they are singing about MGR and not the Spirit.

Pg. 494 Bk. 10 Art. 5 Ver. 5-7

"For truly I [M.G.R.] lie not, but speak all of this according to the Spirit. Concerning this ecumenical spirit of the people shouts in agreement with me in every place. "Gracious is the passing nineteenth century!" During it the Lord God Almighty will Himself before our eyes execute His judgement upon the harlot and the beast who bears her. Then He will establish for us upon the land that which Adam and Eve once had in Paradise.."

It is actually the people believed that this is going to happen in the nineteenth century not MGR.

Also you forgot the most impotent thing at the end of verse 7 "...Adam and Eve once had in Paradise, and perhaps even better by a hundred-fold."

This clearly shows that the people and not MGR that said perhaps. The Holy Spirit that dwelt in MGR would not have said perhaps

"Every word of God [is] pure; He [is] a shield to those who put their trust in Him." (Proverbs 30:5)

If you are asserting that mgr wrote under direction the Holy Spirit of God (YHVH) then why would his writings contain things that are contrary to Gods Word (the Bible)?

How can God contradict Himself?

"Every word of God [is] pure; He [is] a shield to those who put their trust in Him." (Proverbs 30:5 NKJV)

Yet mgr would write this about himself

The Holy Spirit is not a man but Spirit, so how can the Holy Spirit be a man born on the Earth claiming to be the "New Jewish Messiah"

Pg. 526 Bk. 10 Art. 31 Ver. 1

The writer of this message is a man, by birth a resident of this world, named Ulesar, the King Ures, the new Jewish Messiah. [Christ]

Why would anyone sing worship songs to someone claiming to be "Christ" when there's only One

Pg. 585 Bk. 13 Art. 12 Ver. 6

And they sang a song. "Hosanna unto the highest; blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, the King of Spirits --the leader of the new Israel--Hosanna Naraftan [M.G.R.]."

There's only ONE Prince of Peace, yet mgr would seem to take that title for himself

pg. 580 Bk. 13 Art. 6 Ver. 1-2

Thus I [M.G.R.] am called by a new name, which I have written here in the lines for you by the testimony of the true Spirit.

The first name is Enfayil--from God. The second is Savakhan--King of the promise. The third is Ulia-Yar--the Prince of Peace, father of the age hereafter.

Yet the Bible has assigned that title to another

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaish 9:6 NKJV)

You certainly cannot assert Isaiah is speaking about mgr, are you?

How can someone, allegedly writing under influence of the Holy Spirit of God, miss this one...?

Pg. 494 Bk. 10 Art. 5 Ver. 5-7

For truly I [M.G.R.] lie not, but speak all of this according to the Spirit. Concerning this ecumenical spirit of the people shouts in agreement with me in every place. "Gracious is the passing nineteenth century!" During it the Lord God Almighty will Himself before our eyes execute His judgement upon the harlot and the beast who bears her. Then He will establish for us upon the land that which Adam and Eve once had in Paradise,

I don't see a paradise on Earth as it was in the time of Adam and Eve

Women still experience pain in birth

Men sweat when toiling at work

Seems to me it's not Paradise

"16 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire [shall be] for your husband, And he shall rule over you."

17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed [is] the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat [of] it All the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you [are], And to dust you shall return."" (Genesis 3:16-19 NKJV)

Again, lets read the whole article not just pick small parts. Book 10:12 v1 "For in the Spirit I am king and prophet..." Therefore when the Holy Spirit descended on MGR it was the Holy Spirit that wrote. v11 "Because in the Spirit of the Lord I am the Divine messenger... " Again when he is in the Holy Spirit.

Therefore when MGR wrote some of his articles it was not him but the Holy Spirit that dwelt in him and that is why everyone thinks that MGR called himself Messiah but it was actually the Holy Spirit. (The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, three as one)

April 17, 2009