Replies (75 - 105)

[Guest_fourvetta_*]

Quote anonymous:

CODE

The "woman clothed in the sun" in Revelation 10 is Israel, the "root" of the "natural" olive tree, who "gave birth" to.......THE MAN-CHILD.......JESUS.......the "descendant," the "son," "born" of the house of David, the BRANCH/ROD from the root/stump of Jesse.

Who then is the Husband of the Woman clothed in the Sun?

[seeking_truth_1]

Reading along...

Regarding your comment...

It's getting pretty embarrassing the amount of times fourvetta has avoided giving answer to Seeking Truth, as he continues to evade the questions about Who is Jesus, etc.

Fourvetta probably will never answer Seeking.

Do not answer a fool according to his folly.

How its it folly or foolishness?

Jesus asked Peter...

13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
14 So they said, "Some [say] John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven." (Mt 16:13-17 NKJV)

The centrality of the basic question asked by Jesus in verse 13 is pivotal to the Christian Faith

The Faith you, "prophet", allege to hold

I'll ask specifics of you and you'll again, like forvetta, "dance" or "jump" around to avoid coming down on any position as it relates to the questions below

As stated before, your continued failure to answer further emphasizes your agreement with forvetta and his beliefs

Also these dialogs are an illustration to others that you cannot answer because it would expose many of the anti-Biblical views held by some within the molokan church

Frankly, these dialogs aren`t about you, "prophet" or forvetta anymore but for all of the hundreds of others reading these forums.

The next generation, who are smarter and better informed than at any time in history, are watching your "traditionalist" responses. They are beginning to do their homework by comparing your responses (or lack of same) to what the Bible says

You can accuse and attempt to discredit myself, but the one thing you cannot discredit is the Bible

You have been calling me "unrepentant" and "unforgiving" yet may I suggest a good long look in the mirror for yourself

Unforgiving, unrepentant. 

Everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

You accuse me of these things after I posted the article earlier this week
Click here to see the original message

As the next generation begins to read the Bible, you KNOW what will happen

By that time it will be too late for you to do damage control in an effort to maintain the status quo/heresy as usual

You better get ready to do the right thing or shut it down

Like it or not

Here are the questions to you again, again², again³

Seeing as you have never corrected forvetta in any of these discussions, and seem to at best fence sit, it appeared you were in agreement with his views

Am I mistaken?

If so, I'll pose the same questions to you that I did to forvetta

1) Who is Jesus? Is He a man or God in physical form?
2) How do you, forvetta (prophet) get to Heaven? By being molokan or by accepting the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross?
3) Can your non molokan neighbor get to Heaven? If so, how?

Is Maxcim subject to Christ?
Is Maxcim equal to Christ?

And for you I'll add a couple more questions

Does the Spirit and Life Book have any place with the molokan church?
Can a non-molokan, such as a black, hispanic, armenian or asian attend your church and become a member?

Thanks

To refresh everyones memory forvetta's beliefs are as follows

We have been attempting to "pin down" forvetta beliefs and here is what we have

Who is Jesus? Is He a man? - forvetta's belief - NO
(Is He) God in physical form? - forvetta's belief - NO

How do you, forvetta get to Heaven? By being molokan...? -  forvetta's belief - NO
OR
(How do you, forvetta get to Heaven?) by accepting the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross? -  forvetta's belief - NO

Can you non molokan neighbor get to Heaven? - forvetta's belief - NO

Is Maxim subject to Christ? - forvetta's belief - NO
Is Maxim equal to Christ? -  forvetta's belief “ NO

What we can draw from this is that forvetta believes:

Jesus is more than a man but not God in physical form
The pro-MGR group are the "true" believers and are superior to "regular" molokans
Salvation by acceptance of Jesus` sacrifice on the Cross only is insufficient
Forvetta`s non-molokan neighbors won`t make it to Heaven

Finally
If maxim is not subject to Christ
and
maxim is not equal to Christ

Therefore forvetta believes maxim is greater than Christ

Also from a previous dialing we have also established that forvetta believes

1) Molokans are not Christians
2) Christians are of Satan
3) The Bible is the word of God
4) There is a Heaven
5) Jesus is the Son of God
6) The death of Jesus was sufficient to save all from judgement who put their faith in Christ
7) All are going to die some day

Yes, it's contradictory at many points, but it is what it is

[Prophet]

Quoting Seeking ...

Frankly, these dialogs aren`t about you, "prophet" or forvetta anymore but for all of the hundreds of others reading these forums.

You said it truthfully, the readers see pride, disdain, haughtiness, hauteur, loftiness, morgue, superbity, superciliousness. Yes I did a cut and paste Just as the readers see nothing but a cut and paste discussion with endless babbling, blather, drivel, prate, prattle, yammer, stammer, stutter, mumble, mutter.
Another words...run off at the mouth

Fourvetta said it best.... you preach the Letter but not the Spirit.

[steadfast]

Prophet, you are very creative. You comment and give an example in the same paragraph, interesting. Steadfast


You said it truthfully, the readers see pride, disdain, haughtiness, hauteur, loftiness, morgue, superbity, superciliousness. Yes I did a cut and paste Just as the readers see nothing but a cut and paste discussion with endless babbling, blather, drivel, prate, prattle, yammer, stammer, stutter, mumble, mutter.
Another words...run off at the mouth

[seeking_truth_1]

You, "prophet" still haven't answered the question(s)

[Prophet]

You, "prophet" still haven't answered the question(s)

To paraphrase your cohort.....

"The answer to your questions are provided from the "inerrant" and "infallible" WORD(S) OF GOD, THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, therefore, WISDOM dictates that the "wise" response to your questions are.......NOT to provide the answer."

Whats good for the goose... is good for the gander.

Feed your EGO someplace else.

[seeking_truth_1]

You, "prophet" still haven't answered the question(s)

To paraphrase your cohort.....

"The answer to your questions are provided from the "inerrant" and "infallible" WORD(S) OF GOD, THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, therefore, WISDOM dictates that the "wise" response to your questions are.......NOT to provide the answer."

Whats good for the goose... is good for the gander.

Feed your EGO someplace else.

Are you saying that my "cohort" is a "goose"?

Or perhaps a "gander"?

Why would you lie about something like that?

Also, are you stating my "ego" may have missed a meal?

Does my "ego" have a favorite food?

I know Elvis (the king or Rock and Roll - not to be confused with the king of spirits, bling, pain, queens etc...) liked fried peanut & banana sandwiches

Maybe that was because they hadn't invented the Little Juan's Microwavable Burrito yet.

Announcer (off Camera) Little Juans Burritos - Nummy goodness from Juan to all - Little Juans is a registered trademark of A Guy With A Burro Industries - All rights reserved

A willfull deception on your part to avoid the issues?

Now wait a minute!

You may being using a literary tool and not speaking literally

Perhaps, a metaphor/proverb or satire to illustrate a point?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
People should be treated equally, regardless of their gender.
circa 1670 (J.Ray,Collection of English Proverbs)

By the way, you still haven't answered the question(s) again

Remember, the next generation is watching and waiting

[Prophet]

You, "prophet" still haven't answered the question(s)

To paraphrase your cohort.....

"The answer to your questions are provided from the "inerrant" and "infallible" WORD(S) OF GOD, THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, therefore, WISDOM dictates that the "wise" response to your questions are.......NOT to provide the answer."

Whats good for the goose... is good for the gander.

Feed your EGO someplace else.

Are you saying that my "cohort" is a "goose"?

Or perhaps a "gander"?

Why would you lie about something like that?

Also, are you stating my "ego" may have missed a meal?

Does my "ego" have a favorite food?

I know Elvis (the king or Rock and Roll - not to be confused with the king of spirits, bling, pain, queens etc...) liked fried peanut & banana sandwiches

Maybe that was beacuse they hadn't invented the Little Juan's Microwavable Burrito yet.

Announcer (off Camera) Little Juans Burritos - Nummy goodness from Juan to all - Little Juans is a registered trademark of A Guy With A Burro Industries - All rights reserved

A willfull deception on your part to avoid the issues?

Now wait a minute!

You may being using a literary tool and not speaking literally

Perhaps, a metaphor/proverb or satire to illustrate a point?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
People should be treated equally, regardless of their gender.
circa 1670 (J.Ray,Collection of English Proverbs)

By the way, you still haven't answered the question(s) again

Remember, the next generation is watching and waiting

Do not answer a fool according to his folly.

"The answer to your questions are provided from the "inerrant" and "infallible" WORD(S) OF GOD, THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, therefore, WISDOM dictates that the "wise" response to your questions are.......NOT to provide the answer."

[anakainosis]

Prophet, your responses are starting to become like conniption fits and it`s obvious that seeking and steadfast have you beat, and like the fool you come back for more, and flared up. You can`t get enough and you will keep coming back with your verbal lashings that prove your level of maturity.

You try to wave the same verses like stale bread in their faces, "don`t answer a fool¦" when you obviously do not do what the verse recommends. That is an example of, ˜all talk and no walk`

Think about it¦

This whole crusade you started proves nothing, but swelled egos to the readers; it`s beyond being unreasonable. And there is no edification, therefore it`s worthless!

[seeking_truth_1]

Do not answer a fool according to his folly.

"The answer to your questions are provided from the "inerrant" and "infallible" WORD(S) OF GOD, THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, therefore, WISDOM dictates that the "wise" response to your questions are.......NOT to provide the answer."

""O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under [her] wings, but you were not willing!" (Mt 23:37 NKJV)

Is Jesus lying?

Is He willfully attempting to deceive the hard-hearted religious leaders?

Is He claiming to be a "chicken"?

Of course not!

It's figurative language not literal to illustrate the care he wants to demonstrate to His people

To refresh your memory, the next generation is still watching and waiting for your response to the questions I have posed

[Prophet]

Do not answer a fool according to his folly.

"The answer to your questions are provided from the "inerrant" and "infallible" WORD(S) OF GOD, THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, therefore, WISDOM dictates that the "wise" response to your questions are.......NOT to provide the answer."

""O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under [her] wings, but you were not willing!" (Mt 23:37 NKJV)

Is Jesus lying?

Is He willfully attempting to deceive the hard-hearted religious leaders?

Is He claiming to be a "chicken"?

Of course not!

It's figurative language not literal to illustrate the care he wants to demonstrate to His people

To refresh your memory, the next generation is still watching and waiting for your response to the questions I have posed

Seeking....

WISDOM dictates that the "wise" response to your questions are.......NOT to provide the answer to your folly."

[Prophet]

Prophet, your responses are starting to become like conniption fits and it`s obvious that seeking and steadfast have you beat, and like the fool you come back for more, and flared up.  You can`t get enough and you will keep coming back with your verbal lashings that prove your level of maturity.

You try to wave the same verses like stale bread in their faces, "don`t answer a fool¦" when you obviously do not do what the verse recommends.  That is an example of, ˜all talk and no walk`

Think about it¦

This whole crusade you started proves nothing, but swelled egos to the readers; it`s beyond being unreasonable. And there is no edification, therefore it`s worthless!

Nauseating, isn't it? My point has been recognized and agreed upon, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU.

I agree that there is no edification when someone keeps waving stale bread, please remind seeker of truth while your in a rebuking mood, ie: Who is Jesus.. how do you get to Heaven, blah, blah, blah, questions.

Your correct about "not walking the talk." It was foolish of me and I know better. I will be more carefully with my responses to the seeker of truth.

[seeking_truth_1]

Nauseating, isn't it?  My point has been recognized and agreed upon, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU.

I agree that there is no edification when someone keeps waving stale bread, please remind seeker of truth while your in a  rebuking mood,  ie: Who is Jesus.. how do you get to Heaven, blah, blah, blah,  questions. 

Your correct about "not walking the talk." It was foolish of me  and I know better.  I will be more carefully with my responses to the seeker of truth.

You've done nothing other than to dodge and evade

It's obvious you won't answer because you can't without admitting the egregious nature of your "religion of men"

As you sit smugly <_< thinking someone believes you made a point when, in reality, you have not

Nor has anyone validated your lack of response other than for what it is...more of something that is lacking

Let it be known from this day forward that "prophet" could not:

1) State if Jesus is just a man or God in human form
2) State how a molokan gets to Heaven
3) State how a non-molokan gets to Heaven
4) State if mgr is subject to Jesus
5) State if mgr is equal to Christ
6) State if molokans are (or are not) Christians
7) State if Christians are (or are not) of Satan
8) State if the Bible is the Word of God
9) State if there is a Heaven
10) State if Jesus is the Son of God
11) State if the faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus can (or cannot) atone for the sins of man
12) State if man will someday die
13) State if the s & l has (or does not have) a place in the molokan church
14) State if a non-molokan, such as a black, hispanic, armenian or asian can (or cannot) attend and become a member of a molokan church

[anonymous]

fourvetta,Nov 12 2004, 08:29 AM

He maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

The Lord makes His angels into spirits, who are clothed in clean and white linen, which are the righteous acts of the saints. These spirits sit upon the white steeds who are true worshipers and fulfillers of the will of God in Spirit and in truth.

fourvetta,

Before you "run off" to the "rapture,"

And who is THE LAMB'S bride, who "has made herself ready. And it was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints" (Revelation 19:7b-8)?

[Prophet]

Fourvetta...

You have answered their questions and they still don't "get it"

[anonymous]

Fourvetta...

You have answered their questions and they still don't "get it"

Prophet,

Since you "insist" on "running interference" for fourvetta, why don't you explain for us who still "don't get it" however desire to "get it," who THE LAMB'S bride is, who "has made herself ready. And it was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints," who wears the same clothing the armies of Heaven wear, "clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following HIM on white horses," since it is the angels who are made into spirits riding on "the steeds who are true worshipers and fulfillers of the will of God in Spirit and in truth" (fourvetta's quote).

And who and where are the saints?

And are the "righteous acts of the saints" separate from the saints themselves?

Perhaps you can also make it "clearer" for us by answering why THE LORD GOD would make HIS angels into spirits, as fourvetta's explanation goes, when the angels were created as spirits and have a non-corporeal nature although having the "capability" of assuming physical form?

While in the process of coming up with an explanation, keep in mind that the book of Psalms is "poetic" Hebrew literature, and that the psalmist used "imagery" to convey his "descriptions."

In addition to the Olde English of the King James version, you may wish to refer to "several" translations, and the ENTIRE chapter, for a "better" understanding, therefore, a more "accurate" explanation of the Psalm 104:4 passage.

Thank you.

[Prophet]

Fourvetta...

You have answered their questions and they still don't "get it"

Prophet,

Since you "insist" on "running interference" for fourvetta, why don't you explain for us who still "don't get it" however desire to "get it," who THE LAMB'S bride is, who "has made herself ready. And it was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints," who wears the same clothing the armies of Heaven wear, "clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following HIM on white horses," since it is the angels who are made into spirits riding on "the steeds who are true worshipers and fulfillers of the will of God in Spirit and in truth" (fourvetta's quote).

And who and where are the saints?

And are the "righteous acts of the saints" separate from the saints themselves?

Perhaps you can also make it "clearer" for us by answering why THE LORD GOD would make HIS angels into spirits, as fourvetta's explanation goes, when the angels were created as spirits and have a non-corporeal nature although having the "capability" of assuming physical form?

While in the process of coming up with an explanation, keep in mind that the book of Psalms is "poetic" Hebrew literature, and that the psalmist used "imagery" to convey his "descriptions."

In addition to the Olde English of the King James version, you may wish to refer to "several" translations, and the ENTIRE chapter, for a "better" understanding, therefore, a more "accurate" explanation of the Psalm 104:4 passage.

Thank you.

Excuse me... I was talking with fourvetta.

[anonymous]

Fourvetta...

You have answered their questions and they still don't "get it"

Prophet,

Since you "insist" on "running interference" for fourvetta, why don't you explain for us who still "don't get it" however desire to "get it," who THE LAMB'S bride is, who "has made herself ready. And it was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints," who wears the same clothing the armies of Heaven wear, "clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following HIM on white horses," since it is the angels who are made into spirits riding on "the steeds who are true worshipers and fulfillers of the will of God in Spirit and in truth" (fourvetta's quote).

And who and where are the saints?

And are the "righteous acts of the saints" separate from the saints themselves?

Perhaps you can also make it "clearer" for us by answering why THE LORD GOD would make HIS angels into spirits, as fourvetta's explanation goes, when the angels were created as spirits and have a non-corporeal nature although having the "capability" of assuming physical form?

While in the process of coming up with an explanation, keep in mind that the book of Psalms is "poetic" Hebrew literature, and that the psalmist used "imagery" to convey his "descriptions."

In addition to the Olde English of the King James version, you may wish to refer to "several" translations, and the ENTIRE chapter, for a "better" understanding, therefore, a more "accurate" explanation of the Psalm 104:4 passage.

Thank you.

Excuse me... I was talking with fourvetta.

And excuse me, the question regarding THE LAMB'S bride was posed to fourvetta, thank you.

Now, now, let's NOT get into a "war with words," alright?

[Prophet]

Since your were SO WISE in not answering my questions, I'll apply that same wisdom and not adress your questions.

[Prophet]

"the psalmist used "imagery" to convey his "descriptions."

Similar to MGR?

[seeking_truth_1]

"the psalmist used "imagery" to convey his "descriptions."

Similar to MGR?

Writer of this epistle is a man begat in the living universe by the name youliasaar, King Yures, the new Judean messiah

S & L Book 10 - Article 31 Verse 1

This is not figurative

This guy is claiming to be a type of christ/savior

You better start answering the questions Biblically that are asked of you in "church"

You cannot continue to ignore or play the "folly card" to those who ask questions like you do on this forum

The next generation sees right though you and you will not be able to placate them with spiritual sounding mumbo-jumbo (or what I like to call fourvett-ese)

By the way, the next generation called and they asked if you were going on a pilgrimage to Barstow any time soon

***NOTE: The statement By the way, the next generation called and they asked if you were going on a pilgrimage to Barstow any time soon is not a literal statement. It is intended as satire to illustrate your ridiculous position in supporting the abhorrent teachings/writings of mgr***

[Guest_fourvetta_*]

Since you "insist" on "running interference" for fourvetta, why don't you explain for us who still "don't get it" however desire to "get it," who THE LAMB'S bride is, who "has made herself ready. And it was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints,"who wears the same clothing the armies of Heaven wear, "clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following HIM on white horses," since it is the angels who are made into spirits riding on "the steeds who are true worshipers and fulfillers of the will of God in Spirit and in truth" (fourvetta's quote).

The Bride of the Lamb is the 144,000 written of in Revelation 14 and chapter 7: 4-8

The 144,000 have the seal of the Living God, the gift of the Holy Spirit, 12,000 from each of the tribes of the sons of Israel.

They are now with Christ on Mount Zion. Rev. !4: 1





The bride of the Lamb are those who are called to the wedding Supper, made up of all tongues, nations and tribes, written of in Revelations 7: 9-17, Rev. 14: 6 & 7 and Rev. 19: 7-19

Better said, The Lord coming upon the White Steed and the Armies following Him also sitting upon white steeds, the end time church of the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.



First the Jew and then the Gentile. Both brides have the clean and white linen, which are made white by the blood of the Lamb.

Perhaps you can also make it "clearer" for us by answering why THE LORD GOD would make HIS angels into spirits, as fourvetta's explanation goes, when the angels were created as spirits and have a non-corporeal nature although having the "capability" of assuming physical form?

Think of it this way.

The Clean and white linen, which are the righteous acts of the saints, sit upon the white steeds, who are the true worshippers of God in spirit and in truth.

Or you can have it your way. Non-corporeal angels who sit upon white physical horses that have wings.

I have yet to see one.

[anonymous]

The Bride of the Lamb is the 144,000 written of in Revelation 14 and chapter 7: 4-8

The 144,000 have the seal of the Living God, the gift of the Holy Spirit, 12,000 from each of the tribes of the sons of Israel.

The following are the tribes of the sons of Israel. (Revelation 7:4-8)

Of the tribe of Judah 12,000
Of the tribe of Reuben 12,000
Of the tribe of Gad 12,000
Of the tribe of Asher 12,000
Of the tribe of Nephthalim 12,000
Of the tribe of Manasses 12,000
Of the tribe of Simeon 12,000
Of the tribe of Levi 12,000
Of the tribe of Issachar 12,000
Of the tribe of Zabulon 12,000
Of the tribe of Joseph 12,000
Of the tribe of Benjamin 12,000

fourvetta,

Where are the tribes of Dan and Ephraim?

Why are Levi and Joseph listed, when the descendants of Levi and Joseph were NOT numbered among the inheritance of Israel`s twelve tribes, and there is no literal tribe of Joseph?

They are now with Christ on Mount Zion. Rev. !4: 1

Where is JESUS now?

Where is Mount Zion?

What is Mount Zion?

The bride of the Lamb are those who are called to the wedding Supper, made up of all tongues, nations and tribes, written of in Revelations 7: 9-17,  Rev. 14: 6 & 7 and Rev. 19: 7-19

Is this bride, the "great multitude" from every tribe, tongue, and nation, the same bride as the tribes of the sons of Israel, the 144,000 Jews?

Better said, The Lord coming upon the White Steed and the Armies following Him also sitting upon white steeds, the end time church of the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

BEST said by Apostle John to whom JESUS gave the vision.

Revelation 19:14 - "And the armies which are in Heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following HIM on white horses."

"the end time church of the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ." (your quote.)

Who is this "end-time" church, and how does this church differ from churches "other than" the end-time church, and who are the "other" churches (other than the end-time church)?

Which church is Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

Which church is Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul?

Which church is on this earth now, and will be in what will be the future?

First the Jew and then the Gentile. Both brides have the clean and white linen, which are made white by the blood of the Lamb.

Which bride is Apostle Paul referring to when he wrote to the Colossians (3:11), "In the new life there is no difference between Greeks and Jews, those who are circumcised and those who are not circumcised, or people who are foreigners, or Scythians. There is no difference between slaves and free people. But CHRIST is in all believers, and CHRIST is all that is important?"

Think of it this way.

The Clean and white linen, which are the righteous acts of the saints, sit upon the white steeds, who are the true worshippers of God in spirit and in truth.

First, you stated:

---the armies of Heaven are = the angels.

Next, you stated:

---GOD makes the angels into spirits which are = the righteous acts of the saints, who ride upon the true worshippers of God in Spirit and in truth.

Next, you stated:

---the clean and white linen, which are the righteous acts of the saints = sit upon the white steeds, who are the true worshippers of God in spirit and in truth.

Now, read your above statements, and THINK about whether you can make heads or tails out of them, whether they make any SENSE.

If they DO make sense to you, then asking you the logical question,

If the clean and white linen are the righteous acts of the saints, who and where are the saints themselves?

...would be pointless, and wouldn't make any sense....to you.

Or you can have it your way. Non-corporeal angels who sit upon white physical horses that have wings.

Your hero's/your fabrication ISN'T my way, but what is even more important, it isn't THE LORD GOD'S WAY.

You MISunderstood non-corporeal.

non: NOT

corporeal: from "corpus" (body): having a material, physical body

non-corporeal: NOT having a material, physical body

In other words, angels, whom you have asserted THE LORD GOD makes into spirits (Psalm 104:4) are ALREADY spirits---they were CREATED as spirits.

I have yet to see one.

If your hero said it was so, you would not only believe it, you would actually SEE it.

[Guest_fourvetta_*]

You MISunderstood non-corporeal.
non: NOT
corporeal: from "corpus" (body): having a material, physical body
non-corporeal: NOT having a material, physical body
In other words, angels, whom you have asserted THE LORD GOD makes into spirits (Psalm 104:4) are ALREADY spirits---they were CREATED as spirits

I did understand the word non - corporeal. You explained it well.

Being that you take the chapter 19 in Revelations of the Second Coming literal, and as you said the angels are Spirits, how will one be able to see them coming down from heaven?





1 Corinthians

2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man`s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned


John

1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

When were the angels of God seen as Christ said and as is written in Psalms,

91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
91:11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
91:12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

[anonymous]

I did understand the word non - corporeal. You explained it well.

Being that you take the chapter 19 in Revelations of the Second Coming literal, and as you said the angels are Spirits, how will one be able to see them coming down from heaven?



1 Corinthians

2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man`s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned


John

1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

When were the angels of God seen as Christ said and as is written in Psalms,

91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
91:11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
91:12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

fourvetta,

Recall that the topic of discussion was your hero`s claim that he is the white steed in Revelation 19:1 upon which JESUS rides, and that your hero`s faithful ones are the white steeds in Revelation 19:14 upon which the armies of Heaven ride.

Recall also, that it is your contention that the armies of Heaven are the angels, whom you stated GOD makes into spirits, which are the clean and righteous acts of the saints, which clean and righteous acts ride upon the white steeds who are the faithful worshippers of God in Spirit and in truth.

The POINT of pointing out that the angels are CREATED as spirits was to bring to your attention once again, your "unfaithfulness" to THE LORD GOD AND HIS WORD(S), THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, by employing your hero`s methodology of "extracting" SCRIPTURES out of the context in which THEY are written, "reconstructing" THEM (i.e., GOD making the angels into spirits), in order to fuel your ongoing futile attempts to defend your hero`s anti-SCRIPTURAL ideas.

Recall also the proverbial fool, who ISN`T interested in learning and knowing THE TRUTH of GOD`S WORD, THE HOLY SCRIPTURES [within the context in which THEY are written], but who is only interested in speaking that which he has in his heart/mind, the "given" being, that which he has in his heart/mind are his own "vain imaginings," and not THE TRUTH OF GOD`S WORD.

May THE LORD GOD'S WILL continue to be done with you and your brethren.

[Guest_fourvetta_*]

The POINT of pointing out that the angels are CREATED as spirits was to bring to your attention once again, your "unfaithfulness" to THE LORD GOD AND HIS WORD(S), THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, by employing your hero`s methodology of "extracting" SCRIPTURES out of the context in which THEY are written, "reconstructing" THEM (i.e., GOD making the angels into spirits), in order to fuel your ongoing futile attempts to defend your hero`s anti-SCRIPTURAL ideas.

Who is taking the scriptures out of context? The following scripture says plainly that the Lord God makes His angels into spirits.

Psalm

104:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:


The burden is now upon you to explain yourself.

Unfaithfulness can also be called unbelief in the Word of God.

[anonymous]

The POINT of pointing out that the angels are CREATED as spirits was to bring to your attention once again, your "unfaithfulness" to THE LORD GOD AND HIS WORD(S), THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, by employing your hero`s methodology of "extracting" SCRIPTURES out of the context in which THEY are written, "reconstructing" THEM (i.e., GOD making the angels into spirits), in order to fuel your ongoing futile attempts to defend your hero`s anti-SCRIPTURAL ideas.

Who is taking the scriptures out of context? The following scripture says plainly that the Lord God makes His angels into spirits.

Psalm

104:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:


The burden is now upon you to explain yourself.

Unfaithfulness can also be called unbelief in the Word of God.

The following is an example of his hero's, and fourvetta's "unfaithfulness" to THE LORD GOD AND HIS WORD(S), THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.

Every man shall become the husband of seven wives. Isaiah speaks of this twice, first in chapter 4 and then in chapter 11. (Yahoo message #1513, fourvetta)

And of course, Psalm 104, from which fourvetta "cut" the one sentence out of the entire chapter and the context in which it was written, "pasting" it into an altogether different context (Revelation 19), not for THE LORD GOD and HIS NAME`S SAKE, but for the sake of upholding his hero`s claim that his hero`s faithful ones are horses which the armies of Heaven ride on following their COMMANDER IN CHIEF.......JESUS, WHO also rides on a horse.

Regarding Psalm 104:4, fourvetta really needs to "broaden his SCRIPTURAL horizons."

The THEME of Psalm 104 is explained in the psalmist`s prelude:

"Bless THE LORD, O my soul! O LORD my GOD, YOU are very great; YOU are clothed with splendor and majesty, covering YOURSELF with light as with a cloak, stretching out Heaven like a tent curtain."

The psalmist begins with a benediction,

"Bless THE LORD, O my soul! O LORD my GOD, YOU are very great! ....."

---then proceeds to describe THE LORD GOD`S greatness, HIS splendor, HIS majesty, HIS sovereignty over all HIS creation/HIS works, the subjugation of HIS creation to HIS WILL, and HIS care and provision of/for HIS creation.

¦, covering YOURSELF with light as with a cloak, stretching out Heaven like a tent curtain.

HE lays the beams of HIS upper chambers in the waters; HE makes(1) the clouds HIS chariot; HE walks upon the wings of the wind; HE makes(2) HIS messengers* winds**, HIS ministers a flaming fire. HE established the earth upon its foundations, so that it will not totter forever and ever.

(1) makes: Hebrew: asah “ to do or make; (in the broadest sense and widest application) - appoint, have the charge of, (put in) execute (-ion), govern.

(2) makes: Hebrew: siym “ to put (used in a great variety of applications) “ appoint, charge, consider, ordain, order, purpose.

*angels

**spirit(s): Hebrew: ru` ach; Greek: pneu` ma “ breath; wind.

YOU did cover it with the deep as with a garment; the waters were standing above the mountains. At YOUR rebuke they fled; at the sound of YOUR thunder they hurried away. The mountains rose; the valleys sank down to the place which YOU did establish for them. YOU did set a boundary that they may not pass over; that they may not return to cover the earth.

HE sends forth springs in the valleys; they flow between the mountains; they give drink to every beast of the field; the wild donkeys quench their thirst. Beside them the birds of the heavens dwell; they lift up their voices among the branches. HE waters the mountains from HIS upper chambers; the earth is satisfied with the fruit of HIS works. HE causes the grass to grow for the cattle, and vegetation for the labor of man, so that he may bring forth food from the earth, and wine which makes man`s heart glad, so that he may make his face glisten with oil, and food which sustains man`s heart. The trees of THE LORD drink their fill, the cedars of Lebanon which HE planted, where the birds build their nests, and the stork, whose home is the fir trees. The high mountains are for the wild goats; the cliffs are a refuge for the rock badgers.

HE made the moon for the seasons; the sun knows the place of its setting. YOU did appoint darkness and it becomes night, in which all the beasts of the forest prowl about. The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their food from GOD. When the sun rises they withdraw, and lie down in their dens. Man goes forth to his work and to his labor until evening.

O LORD, how many are YOUR works! In wisdom YOU have made them all; the earth is full of YOUR possessions. There is the sea, great and broad, in which are swarms without number, animals both small and great. There the ships move along, and Leviathan, which YOU have formed to sport in it. They all wait for YOU, to give them their food in due season. YOU do give to them, they gather it up; YOU do open YOUR hand, they are satisfied with good. YOU do hide YOUR face, they are dismayed; YOU do take away their spirit, they expire, and return to their dust. YOU do send forth YOUR SPIRIT, they are created; and YOU do renew the face of the ground.

Let the GLORY OF THE LORD endure forever; let THE LORD be glad in HIS works; HE looks at the earth, and it trembles; HE touches the mountains, and they smoke.

I will sing to THE LORD as long as I live; I will sing raise to my GOD while I have my being. Let my meditation be pleasing to HIM; as for me, I shall be glad in THE LORD. Let sinners be consumed from the earth, and let the wicked be no more."

And ends with a benediction.

"Bless THE LORD, O my soul, praise THE LORD!"

As can be seen, the context ISN`T the creation "process."

The psalmist is employing "imagery" to provide an "idea" of the greatness, splendor and majesty of THE LORD GOD.

From his description, we can see that THE LORD GOD is SOVEREIGN; that HE is ALMIGHTY, and in complete command of HIS creation; that HIS creation is subject to HIS WILL; and that HE cares and provides for HIS creation.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The theme and context of Revelation 19 is THE CHIEF CONQUEROR`S.......JESUS`.......GLORIOUS TRIUMPHANT VICTORY, the victory of HOLINESS, PURITY, RIGHTEOUSNESS over all that which is unholy, unpure, unrighteous = satan, sin, and death = the malady of mankind, and HIS faithful followers` following HIM, partaking/sharing in HIS GLORY, HIS TRIUMPH, HIS VICTORY.

"Unfaithfulness" IS unbelief, and because fourvetta has placed his "faith(fulness)" in his hero`s words, which words have been PROVEN by GOD`S WORD(S), THE HOLY SCRIPTURES to be "in opposition to" THE LORD GOD`S WORDS, fourvetta is "unfaithful" to THE LORD GOD/HIS WORDS, and as such, is an "unbeliever."

Likewise, because fourvetta has chosen to believe a counterfeit Christ, he has chosen to believe a lie/untruth, and because he has chosen to believe a lie/untruth, he has rejected THE TRUTH.......JESUS, THE TRUE CHRIST, and because he has rejected THE TRUE CHRIST, he is not a TRUE believer, hence, he is "unfaithful" to HIM, and an "unbeliever."

JESUS warned, "Not everyone who says to ME, ˜LORD, LORD,` will enter THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; but he who does THE WILL of MY FATHER WHO is in Heaven" (Matthew 7:21).

THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

"But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in THE LAMB`S* BOOK OF LIFE" (Revelation 21:27).

*THE LAMB sacrificed on the cross.......THE TRUE CHRIST.......JESUS.

Workers of iniquity: those who believe and teach falsehoods/lies = that which is "in opposition to".......THE TRUTH.......THE WORD OF GOD.......JESUS.......THE TRUE CHRIST¦¦.THE LAMB of GOD.

May THE LORD GOD'S WILL be done with fourvetta and his brethren.

[seeking_truth_1]

Bringing it to the top

[seeking_truth_1]

At least fv is consistent

He's been affirming this heresy all along

He's a "good" molokan

[anonymous]

Quote anonymous:

CODE
The "woman clothed in the sun" in Revelation 10 is Israel, the "root" of the "natural" olive tree, who "gave birth" to.......THE MAN-CHILD.......JESUS.......the "descendant," the "son," "born" of the house of David, the BRANCH/ROD from the root/stump of Jesse.


Who then is the Husband of the Woman clothed in the Sun?

HE WHO [always] has been (past), [always] is (present), and [always] will be (future) THE [ONE] HUSBAND of HIS [one] bride/wife aka HIS body aka the church.

As it is written:

“For your MAKER is your husband, THE LORD of hosts is HIS name; and THE HOLY ONE of Israel is your REDEEMER, the GOD of the whole earth HE is called.” (Isaiah 54:5)

“’Behold the days are coming,’ declares THE LORD, ‘when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, MY covenant that they broke, though I was their husband,’ declares THE LORD.” (Jeremiah 31:31-32)

“For the husband is the head of the wife even as CHRIST is THE HEAD of the church, HIS body, and is HIMSELF its SAVIOR.” (Ephesians 5:23)

“And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from GOD, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Behold, the dwelling place of GOD is with man. HE will dwell with them, and they will be HIS people, and GOD HIMSELF will be with them as their GOD.” (Revelation 21:2-3)

THE LORD.......GOD.

[fourvetta]

“For the husband is the head of the wife even as CHRIST is THE HEAD of the church, HIS body, and is HIMSELF its SAVIOR.” (Ephesians 5:23)

Even Apostle Paul affirms that the church is the Wife of Christ.

When did the Marriage of the Lamb take place and who is His Son?

And we know that according to the law of God that the first born son that opens the womb is consecrated to God and only after a Lawful Marriage.

“And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from GOD, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Behold, the dwelling place of GOD is with man. HE will dwell with them, and they will be HIS people, and GOD HIMSELF will be with them as their GOD.” (Revelation 21:2-3)[/font]

MGR book 9 article 15

[GoodDay]

“For the husband is the head of the wife even as CHRIST is THE HEAD of the church, HIS body, and is HIMSELF its SAVIOR.” (Ephesians 5:23)

Even Apostle Paul affirms that the church is the Wife of Christ.

When did the Marriage of the Lamb take place and who is His Son?

And we know that according to the law of God that the first born son that opens the womb is consecrated to God and only after a Lawful Marriage.

“And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from GOD, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Behold, the dwelling place of GOD is with man. HE will dwell with them, and they will be HIS people, and GOD HIMSELF will be with them as their GOD.” (Revelation 21:2-3)[/font]

MGR book 9 article 15

I would recommend any readers who are not aware of the contents of the Spirit and Life to open it up and read MGR book 9 article 15.

Then pray for God to show you the Truth in the Bible. This book (Spirit and Life) is full of extreme blasphemous writings and is another Gospel. Please don't just "go along." God doesn't accept them who "go along" or them that comprimise in the areas of luke-warm. Learn what songs are being sung in church. Translate them. don't just go along. Some are putting praise to Maxcim and some are praising Martyers. Be carfull.

Fourvetta will only pick bits of Paul's writings to try to put Maxcim's writings into some sort of nice sounding truth. Please read this book for yourself after praying for God to be along there with you. It's easy to see all the anti-christian writings that are in it.

Fourvetta doesn't accept all of Paul's writings as they will destroy his theory.

Here is Paul writing to the Galations.
Galatians
1Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2and all the brothers with me,


3Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! 10Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

God does not play favorites nor does he fool around. One cannot serve God and man at the same time. Who do you serve?

Paul W. Orloff