Fd, Read Carefully

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Did you read ITD's misquote of the passage in Phillipians chapter 2 verse 6?

 

<<snip>>Well...interesting stuff. Let's delve further into this Phillipians chapter 2.

 

Read my version of it which is closer to the exact translation from the Hebrew and not your Americanized version.

 

2:6. Who being in the form of God, thought it robbery to be equal

with God:<<snip>>

 

Did you also read his false conclusions made based upon the mistranslation?

 

It says that Jeses was in fact in the form of God, HOWEVER, HE THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE ROBBERY TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD!

 

If that's the case ladies and gentlemen, wouldn't it be safe to say that Jesus for once and for all was not God?

 

Get a grip people. Quit beating a dead horse.

 

 

I challenge you FD to open up any Bible you have in your home (hoping it's not a mormon or JW version) and read the passage for yourself before we can go any further

 

What does it say?

 

 

Here are the 10 translations below

 

NLT - Phl 2:6 - Though he was God, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God.

New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

 

NKJV - Phl 2:6 - who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson

 

NASB - Phl 2:6 - who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

 

RSV - Phl 2:6 - who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.

 

Webster - Phl 2:6 - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Noah Webster Version 1833 Info

 

Young - Phl 2:6 - who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God,

Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info

 

Darby - Phl 2:6 - who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God;

J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info

 

ASV - Phl 2:6 - who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,

American Standard Version 1901 Info

 

HNV - Phl 2:6 - who, existing in the form of God, didn't consider it robbery to be equal with God,

Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info

 

Vulgate - Phl 2:6 - qui cum in forma Dei esset non rapinam arbitratus est esse se aequalem Deo

Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info

[seeking_truth_1 0]

FD:

 

Still waiting for a response here.

 

You may wish to rant and rave about "the postman" but it's the message you need to deal with

 

Did you open a Bible and read for yourself?

 

While you are there look up 1 Timothy 3:14-16 and Acts 20:28

 

14 These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly;

15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

 

28 "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

 

Who's flesh and blood?

 

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24 NKJV)

 

Who's Flesh, Blood and Spirit?

[fountain-drink 0]

FD:

 

Still waiting for a response here.

 

You may wish to rant and rave about "the postman" but it's the message you need to deal with

 

Did you open a Bible and read for yourself?

 

While you are there look up 1 Timothy 3:14-16 and Acts 20:28

 

14 These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly;

15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

 

28 "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

 

Who's flesh and blood?

 

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24 NKJV)

 

Who's Flesh, Blood and Spirit?

 

 

 

OOps, Sorry Seeking, I didn't know this was for me. Le me get back with you. I have dinner to make and errands to run...Give me a few!!

 

[fountain-drink 0]

So let's look at what you quoted...

 

1 Timothy 3

1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

10And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:

15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

Ok, I don't plan on becoming a man of office...

 

Acts 20

25"Now I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again. 26Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. 28Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.[a] Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

 

OK, I found this intersting...yes, this is happening in the Molokan Church.

 

John 4

21 Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

25 The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."

26 Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."

 

So what is worshpping in the Spirit and in the Truth? You claim the Molokans do not, do you? I still think this forum can be a valuable tool to learn from. All can learn, Molokan and non-molokan alike. But there are too many "hot" heads that don't want to accept what is being said. Instead of commenting Molokans are abunch of So and So's, or commenting that Ne-Nash are pork eaters, we need to come together in unity and in the LOVE OF GOD and make something good of this site. Everyone that posts here is guilty of slander, bashing and bad posting habits. Everyone wants change. Wouldn't it be a good idea to make the changes within ourselves on this site? I mean if we can't get along hear on this forum, how can we get along when we are with God eternally?

[seeking_truth_1 0]

A couple of points

 

First, thank you for opening up the Bible and reading the passages I cited

 

That is probably one of the most important things anyone can do when seeking after God and Biblical truth

 

I wanted to give you context of the first passage by including the verses ahead of the focal point in 1 Timothy 3 which is in verse 16

 

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

Also the passage deal with anyone who is in any leadership in the church. In non-molokan churches, these positions are a vital part of ministry and the ones who are in these positions need to be qualified accordingly. If you are not looking to teach a Sunday school class or be an usher you still have a responsibility to exhort the leadership if you know about those in leadership who are not qualified according to Scripture

 

In the next passage I wanted to key in on the following:

 

"Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.Be shepherds of the church of God,which he bought with his own blood"

 

How does God have blood?

 

Allow the Lord to speak to you about that

 

I wanted to look at the passage in John 4 with an eye toward the verse

 

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.

 

God is Spirit, yet He has blood and He was manifested in the flesh

 

Next, I wanted to crack open the Bible so you could "check up" on what ITD had mis-quoted from Philippians 2 and the conclusion they drew

 

It is everyone`s responsibility not to accept things at face value, or because Dz. so and so told you, but look it up and see if the Bible teaches that

 

Paul sent Timothy to the Church at Ephesus to fix the mess that had developed in only 10 years primarily due to a lack of solid Biblical teaching

 

Timothy was trying to get things back on track by

 

1) Establishing the qualifications for Elders in the Church (1 Timothy 3)

3) Speaking on the Deity of Jesus (1 Timothy 3:16)

4) Warning against false teachers teaching fables not the Bible (1Timothy 1:2-3)

5) Warning against legalism (1 Timothy 4)

6) Dealing properly with widows (1 Timothy 5:3)

7) Warning against imposters (2 Timothy 3:13)

8) Appropriate Dress "codes" (1 Timothy 2:9)

 

Does any of this sound familiar?

[fountain-drink 0]

A couple of points

 

First, thank you for opening up the Bible and reading the passages I cited

 

That is probably one of the most important things anyone can do when seeking after God and Biblical truth

 

I wanted to give you context of the first passage by including the verses ahead of the focal point in 1 Timothy 3 which is in verse 16

 

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

Also the passage deal with anyone who is in any leadership in the church. In non-molokan churches, these positions are a vital part of ministry and the ones who are in these positions need to be qualified accordingly. If you are not looking to teach a Sunday school class or be an usher you still have a responsibility to exhort the leadership if you know about those in leadership who are not qualified according to Scripture

 

In the next passage I wanted to key in on the following:

 

"Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.Be shepherds of the church of God,which he bought with his own blood"

 

How does God have blood?

 

Allow the Lord to speak to you about that

 

I wanted to look at the passage in John 4 with an eye toward the verse

 

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.

 

God is Spirit, yet He has blood and He was manifested in the flesh

 

Next, I wanted to crack open the Bible so you could "check up" on what ITD had mis-quoted from Philippians 2 and the conclusion they drew

 

It is everyone`s responsibility not to accept things at face value, or because Dz. so and so told you, but look it up and see if the Bible teaches that

 

Paul sent Timothy to the Church at Ephesus to fix the mess that had developed in only 10 years primarily due to a lack of solid Biblical teaching

 

Timothy was trying to get things back on track by

 

1) Establishing the qualifications for Elders in the Church (1 Timothy 3) I agree on this. There are some men that should not have power.

3) Speaking on the Deity of Jesus (1 Timothy 3:16) I Agree

4) Warning against false teachers teaching fables not the Bible (1Timothy 1:2-3) I agree

5) Warning against legalism (1 Timothy 4) I agree

6) Dealing properly with widows (1 Timothy 5:3) I haven't seen a problem with this inour church.

7) Warning against imposters (2 Timothy 3:13) I agree, we have imposters amoung our brotherhood.

8) Appropriate Dress "codes" (1 Timothy 2:9) I firmly believe in appropriet dress when entering a church. Any church. I've been to non molokan churchs and have been appauled at what some of the men and women wear. I don't think short sleeves, short dress's/skirts, pants on women, shorts on women and so on are appropriet. No, you don't have to wear what a typical Molokan person wears to go to church, but keeping yourself covered up is very appropriate.

Does any of this sound familiar? FYI....I always read when scripture is quoted. Cause like you said....sometimes it is mis-quoted.

 

 

I think if we make the changes amoug ourselves, and it sounds like a few on this forum would like to see changes, change can be in the future.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

A couple of points

 

First, thank you for opening up the Bible and reading the passages I cited

 

That is probably one of the most important things anyone can do when seeking after God and Biblical truth

 

I wanted to give you context of the first passage by including the verses ahead of the focal point in 1 Timothy 3 which is in verse 16

 

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

Also the passage deal with anyone who is in any leadership in the church. In non-molokan churches, these positions are a vital part of ministry and the ones who are in these positions need to be qualified accordingly. If you are not looking to teach a Sunday school class or be an usher you still have a responsibility to exhort the leadership if you know about those in leadership who are not qualified according to Scripture

 

In the next passage I wanted to key in on the following:

 

"Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.Be shepherds of the church of God,which he bought with his own blood"

 

How does God have blood?

 

Allow the Lord to speak to you about that

 

I wanted to look at the passage in John 4 with an eye toward the verse

 

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.

 

God is Spirit, yet He has blood and He was manifested in the flesh

 

Next, I wanted to crack open the Bible so you could "check up" on what ITD had mis-quoted from Philippians 2 and the conclusion they drew

 

It is everyone`s responsibility not to accept things at face value, or because Dz. so and so told you, but look it up and see if the Bible teaches that

 

Paul sent Timothy to the Church at Ephesus to fix the mess that had developed in only 10 years primarily due to a lack of solid Biblical teaching

 

Timothy was trying to get things back on track by

1) Establishing the qualifications for Elders in the Church (1 Timothy 3)

I agree on this. There are some men that should not have power.

3) Speaking on the Deity of Jesus (1 Timothy 3:16)

I Agree

4) Warning against false teachers teaching fables not the Bible (1Timothy 1:2-3)

I agree

5) Warning against legalism (1 Timothy 4)

I agree

6) Dealing properly with widows (1 Timothy 5:3)

I haven't seen a problem with this in our church.

7) Warning against impostors (2 Timothy 3:13)

I agree, we have impostors among our brotherhood.

8) Appropriate Dress "codes" (1 Timothy 2:9)

I firmly believe in appropriate dress when entering a church. Any church. I've been to non molokan churchs and have been appalled at what some of the men and women wear. I don't think short sleeves, short dress's/skirts, pants on women, shorts on women and so on are appropriate. No, you don't have to wear what a typical Molokan person wears to go to church, but keeping yourself covered up is very appropriate.

Does any of this sound familiar?

FYI....I always read when scripture is quoted. Cause like you said....sometimes it is mis-quoted.

I think if we make the changes among ourselves, and it sounds like a few on this forum would like to see changes, change can be in the future.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

These were questions I apparently missed quite a while ago, so why not address them now

 

So what is worshiping in the Spirit and in the Truth?

If you know the Truth you will grow in the Spirit

 

What is Truth as is relates to Scripture?

 

The biggest issue is how does one secure Salvation

 

Is it as Scripture prescribes or by the religion of men?

 

If you do not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, you do not have Salvation and you do not have His Spirit

 

Therefore traditionalist and maximisti molokans who advocate another way do not manifest the Spirit of God when they are raising their hands or jumping around

 

They very well may be manifesting a spirit, but it is not of God

 

You claim the Molokans do not, do you?

No. I would consider myself a Christian who happens to have familial ties to people who are known as molokans

I still think this forum can be a valuable tool to learn from. All can learn, Molokan and non-molokan alike. But there are too many "hot" heads that don't want to accept what is being said. Instead of commenting Molokans are a bunch of So and So's, or commenting that Ne-Nash are pork eaters, we need to come together in unity and in the LOVE OF GOD and make something good of this site.

This is a big problem because maximisti and some non-maximisti molokans are not Christians, therefore there cannot be unity in Spirit and Truth

 

There cannot be unity in the "LOVE OF GOD" because those who advocate another way than Jesus do not love God as He prescribes.

 

""If you love me, obey my commandments." (John 14:15 NLT)

 

"Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them."" (John 14:21 NLT)

 

"36 "Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?"

37 Jesus replied, "˜You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.`

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 A second is equally important: ˜Love your neighbor as yourself.`

40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments."" (Matthew 22:36-40 NLT)

 

To love God means one will endeavor to keep His commandments

 

The first of which is

 

""You must not have any other god but me." (Exodus 20:3 NLT)

 

traditionalist molokans have placed their religion ahead of God and His plan for Salvation through the perfect life, death and resurrection of Jesus

maximisti molokans have placed mgr, their "god" ahead of God (YHVH) and His plan for Salvation through the perfect life, death and resurrection of Jesus

 

Perhaps that is why things get heated here online

 

Have you noticed ,at one point, I was at odds with a couple of people here online and now I'm not

 

What do you think changed?

 

It certainly hasn't been my message

 

Perhaps they have come to see the Truth as Scripture prescribes and we are no longer at odds

Everyone that posts here is guilty of slander, bashing and bad posting habits.

True. Everyone has fallen short

 

"For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God`s glorious standard." (Romans 3:23 NLT)

 

Everyone wants change. Wouldn't it be a good idea to make the changes within ourselves on this site?

We cannot make permanent life changes apart from the power that Jesus affords us to do so

 

"16 So we have stopped evaluating others from a human point of view. At one time we thought of Christ merely from a human point of view. How differently we know him now!

17 This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!

18 And all of this is a gift from God, who brought us back to himself through Christ. And God has given us this task of reconciling people to him." (2Corinthians 5:16-18 NLT)

 

This ability is only available to those who repent of their old ways and turn to the Only One who can change them

 

"And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart." (Ezekiel 36:26 NLT)

 

I mean if we can't get along hear on this forum, how can we get along when we are with God eternally?

Those who advocate Jesus as the ONLY way, as Scripture prescribes, horribly will not be seeing those who do not

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Perhaps this needs a re-visit...

 

While reviewing this thread it's interesting how someone could blatantly misquote Scripture and not even see it

 

Furthermore they are haughty enough to put down an "Americanized version" of the Bible to say the "molokan russian only Bible is better" or somehow is different

 

It all comes down to an arrogant ignorance

 

<<snip>>Well...interesting stuff. Let's delve further into this Phillipians chapter 2.

 

Read my version of it which is closer to the exact translation from the Hebrew and not your Americanized version.

 

2:6. Who being in the form of God, thought it robbery to be equal

with God:<<snip>>

 

Did you also read his false conclusions made based upon the mistranslation?

 

It says that Jeses was in fact in the form of God, HOWEVER, HE THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE ROBBERY TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD!

 

If that's the case ladies and gentlemen, wouldn't it be safe to say that Jesus for once and for all was not God?

 

Get a grip people. Quit beating a dead horse.

 

Here are the 10 translations below

 

NLT - Phl 2:6 - Though he was God, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God.

New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

 

NKJV - Phl 2:6 - who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson

 

NASB - Phl 2:6 - who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

 

RSV - Phl 2:6 - who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.

 

Webster - Phl 2:6 - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Noah Webster Version 1833 Info

 

Young - Phl 2:6 - who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God,

Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info

 

Darby - Phl 2:6 - who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God;

J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info

 

ASV - Phl 2:6 - who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,

American Standard Version 1901 Info

 

HNV - Phl 2:6 - who, existing in the form of God, didn't consider it robbery to be equal with God,

Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info

 

Vulgate - Phl 2:6 - qui cum in forma Dei esset non rapinam arbitratus est esse se aequalem Deo

Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info