Grace

I was not surprised to hear Harold Camping verbally grasp at last straws and say that "....spiritually speaking, He (Jesus) did come!" Isn't that just classic cult back-peddling? And, I guess I should not have been surprised when my friends, Bob and Cleo (relatively new followers of Harold Camping's teachings on end times) said to me in reply, "...if Jesus does not come on May 21st, that won't change anything!" The one element that is missing in both the Harold Camping case as well as the MGR case is that followers of these two FALSE PROPHETS, will not call a spade a spade even when the false prophecy does not come to pass. Denial, by the respective followers of these two false prophets, because of their own human pride (which God hates), is a hallmark of self-destruction: not loving the truth to the point that God sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie. Let's keep praying for God's truth to invade the Molokan churches and especially those who sit in leadership positions! Blessings, Grace

Sada, It is a reprint of the 1984 personal testimony of Elder Paul A. Efseaff. It has been reprinted and mailed to all who were listed in the 2004 Molokan directory. Efforts are being made to finance the reprint in Russian, to be distributed to those Molokans in Russia who have been duped by American Rudometkinites into believing that MGR is a prophet of God....is the final Adam....is the King of Spirits....is the white horse....is the rider of the white horse....is the Holy Spirit incarnate....is the "Christ" for the "New Israel"....etc., etc., etc. (No sarcasm intended....just didn't have time to quote verbatim from the S&L.) If you're interested, I can ask my friends to send you a copy. God is merciful and longsuffering, not wanting that any should perish....therefore He continues to reach out to the lost. By His grace, walking forward with Him! Grace

Seeking: The reason Otkroveniya or any other pro-Spirit and Life Molokan MUST DOUBT THE BIBLE is because the alternative is unacceptable: that the S&L may be wrong....that Makcim may be a false prophet and that some Molokans have decided to ignore the history and the deception and just "keep playing church" as usual. It is easier for them to either shoot the messenger or to malign the word of God than to humble oneself, ask God for forgiveness and return to His word alone as the benchmark for spiritual truth. Pride. Always goes before the fall. Keep up the good work! Grace :-) Okay.....I suddenly realized I misquoted Scripture! See, Otkroveniya, it is not so painful to admit a mistake........make it a regular habit and it gets easier and easier! PROVERBS 16:18 "Pride goeth before DESTRUCTION and a haughty spirit before a FALL." Either way...........this is NOT GOOD! Even the "prideful look" is an abomination to God -- He hates it. Grace

Seeking: The reason Otkroveniya or any other pro-Spirit and Life Molokan MUST DOUBT THE BIBLE is because the alternative is unacceptable: that the S&L may be wrong....that Makcim may be a false prophet and that some Molokans have decided to ignore the history and the deception and just "keep playing church" as usual. It is easier for them to either shoot the messenger or to malign the word of God than to humble oneself, ask God for forgiveness and return to His word alone as the benchmark for spiritual truth. Pride. Always goes before the fall. Keep up the good work! Grace :-)

I also do not believe this forum should be used to attack, embarass, seperate or harm individuals, this is not the proper place and venue for that. EGK EGK: In reading your posts, I am convinced you are a born-again, sold out to Jesus, follower of the Biblical Christ. What I perceive, however, is that you want to hold two watermelons in one hand. I recognize the "symptoms" because that is EXACTLY what I tried to do for a long time.....UNTIL the Holy Spirit showed me that I had to make a choice: (1) to follow Jesus at any cost, or (2) try to hold on to the Molokan brotherhood. Please do not misunderstand me: I agree that it is a "beautiful" thing to have a "family" of people who strive to uphold their ethnicity and their cultural heritage. However, the truth of the matter is that our beautiful "Molokan" family (which should be purely Bible-only Christians) has become poisoned by heresy and heretical teachings. Let's face it....these heretical teachings are intermingled throughout the so-called "brotherhood" and Biblical truth has become buried in the "borsch"! It is my understanding that those on this forum who are anti-S&L, anti-Makcim, are merely sounding the "trumpet" that calls true believers out of the mire -- like calling Jews out of Babylon. Those who are true followers of Jesus cannot be playing "footsie" with the devil! The "devil" is not the Molokan brotherhood--as in people--it is the co-mingled worship that includes the worship of Baal. NO CAN DO! I printed your quote above because my question to you then is this: "Is the once-Bible-only Christian-Molokan Church the proper place and/or venue to allow extra-Biblical writings and heretical teachings?" If it is NOT, then something needs to be done and done NOW! How do you think you will be able to save the "ethnic culture" AND STILL BE "sola Scriptura"? Jesus wants sold out followers of Him......I don't think He's that concerned about ethnic brotherhoods....especially those that are tainted by "other spirits". What say you? Your friend and sister in Christ Jesus, Grace

The same Apostle John said; 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. Christ only intercedes for those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Having said that, the one who sins, is still under the first covenant of sin and death. Although he might think he is in the new covenant of grace. Apostle Paul tells us; 8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers”and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. To say that Christ is tolerant of any sin, is to also say that he did not or could not destroy the works of the devil. One is either under the law or under grace. Most will say, the old wine is better. Fourvetta, What did John the Apostle mean when he wrote...."but if we sin, we have an advocate"? Please..........I'm an old woman and I have a lot on my plate........can you spare me all the "surround sound" and just answer this one question? It appears that the Apostle is contradicting what you have been emphatically stating (that in the New Covenant there is no sin nor can there be). You have my gratitude if you'll keep it simple, okay? Thank you. Grace

Hi there, IvanVasilitch! You quoted from the Book of John. Now I'm also going to quote something to you from the Book of John: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with ËGod. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:1-3) IvanVasilitch....who is "THE WORD"? Now let's read a little further down in the same Book of John: "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14) IvanVasilitch....who is "THE WORD" who became flesh? When you decide to become a student of the Bible, you will learn that the Bible interprets the Bible. We don't have to have a "manmade" interpretation....just read your Bible, and believe it! How much more simple can it be? Now, about this "sinless" heresy that you are "agreeing" with Fourvetta about: use your God-given brain, man! If you are "virtually the same as being sinless" because you are under the New Covenant, how do you explain the fact that every time you go on "krugh" at church you say "prastiy menye"? Why should you ever have to ever ask forgiveness again since you are under the New Covenant and like fourvetta said, there is no sin nor can there ever be? Why, oh why, do you keep asking God to forgive you? Think about this before you give your answer because you do not want to continue digging that hole you're standing in! What do I believe? I believe exactly as the Bible teaches: God the Word, the Creator God, took on human flesh, NEVER SINNED, and then died on the cross, spilling His God-human blood to cover the sins of the world, and with his resurrection, conquered sin, death, and Satan. Grace IvanVasilitch! So much for "adult" dialogue! Where have you gone?

Hi there, IvanVasilitch! You quoted from the Book of John. Now I'm also going to quote something to you from the Book of John: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with ËGod. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:1-3) IvanVasilitch....who is "THE WORD"? Now let's read a little further down in the same Book of John: "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14) IvanVasilitch....who is "THE WORD" who became flesh? When you decide to become a student of the Bible, you will learn that the Bible interprets the Bible. We don't have to have a "manmade" interpretation....just read your Bible, and believe it! How much more simple can it be? Now, about this "sinless" heresy that you are "agreeing" with Fourvetta about: use your God-given brain, man! If you are "virtually the same as being sinless" because you are under the New Covenant, how do you explain the fact that every time you go on "krugh" at church you say "prastiy menye"? Why should you ever have to ever ask forgiveness again since you are under the New Covenant and like fourvetta said, there is no sin nor can there ever be? Why, oh why, do you keep asking God to forgive you? Think about this before you give your answer because you do not want to continue digging that hole you're standing in! What do I believe? I believe exactly as the Bible teaches: God the Word, the Creator God, took on human flesh, NEVER SINNED, and then died on the cross, spilling His God-human blood to cover the sins of the world, and with his resurrection, conquered sin, death, and Satan. Grace

IvanVasilitch.... You're the one who wants to communicate like adults.....no can do unless you respond! What is Jesus? Thanks for your adult response! Grace

Fourvetta? I know you're reading the forums, I just don't understand why this simple question cannot be answered: Why would the Apostle John be speaking about "if we sin" (under the New Covenant) if there is no sin (nor can there be), according to your teaching? No man by the Spirit of God can call Jesus Christ accursed with the coming of His New Name. The scriptures tell us to examine ourselves if indeed we are in the true faith and if indeed we have the Spirit of God. Those who are born of the flesh are flesh and those who are born of the Spirit are Spirit. The body is only a habitation for the Spirit and the soul. Better said as the dwelling place for the inner man. The inner man who is born after the Spirit is the Lord from above. 5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 7:22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; Maxims omitted writings are available to whoever wants them. I personally will not give them to anyone who is opposed. Go buy your own oil and gold that is tried by fire.

IvanVasilitch, Please..... QUESTION FOR IVANVASILITCH: If Jesus is not God, and he is not an angel, and he is not a cherubim, and he is not "just a man"......WHAT MANNER OF CREATURE IS HE? Demi-god? Spirit/human? What? Okay, as "adults", communicating on this forum, would you kindly and with some adult seriousness, answer my question to you? (You let me worry about Fourvetta and his "spot on" Scriptures....maybe you can just answer this one question and please, don't respond with "he's the son of God"....okay? I'm not asking that.......I'm asking YOU, IvanVasilitch......what manner of "creature" is Jesus? Thanks for being so adult about this communicating thing. Grace

Fourvetta, Please explain the meaning of I John 1:5-10 and I John 2:1-3. What does the Apostle mean when he says..."but if we sin, we have an advocate". Of whom is the Apostle speaking...."we"? What covenant is John speaking about? Thank you in advance for your response. Grace No man by the Spirit of God can call Jesus Christ accursed with the coming of His New Name. The scriptures tell us to examine ourselves if indeed we are in the true faith and if indeed we have the Spirit of God. Those who are born of the flesh are flesh and those who are born of the Spirit are Spirit. The body is only a habitation for the Spirit and the soul. Better said as the dwelling place for the inner man. The inner man who is born after the Spirit is the Lord from above. 5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 7:22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; Maxims omitted writings are available to whoever wants them. I personally will not give them to anyone who is opposed. Go buy your own oil and gold that is tried by fire.

The gospel that you preach is a different gospel than that preached by Apostle Paul. In Romans 8 He writes; 1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Paul also says that outside of the law, sin is dead. Where there is no law there is no transgression of it. Sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Life by the Spirit of Truth bypasses the law. Read the fourth commandment. MGR book 8 article 23:5 In another place he writes; 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7"Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him." Just as sin acted in the body bringing death, life also will act in the body bringing justification. God did not create death, He created life. Christ proved once and for all that the resurrection of the body is possible and even the translation while yet alive. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 explains in detail. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. The "fallen flesh" is the first man Adam. The second man is a life giving Spirit, a sinless man as was Christ. Fourvetta, Your Scripture quotes were quite nice.....I love the word of God. Please, before we continue further, would you kindly expound on the Scripture I quoted above which demonstrates that in fact, sin can and does happen among believers in the New Covenant: I John 1:5-10 and I John 2:1-3 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. IF WE SAY WE HAVE NO SIN, WE DECEIVE OURSELVES and the truth is not in us. IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. IF WE SAY WE HAVE NOT SINNED, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. BUT IF ANYONE DOES SIN, WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER, JESUS CHRIST THE RIGHTEOUS. HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS, AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. AND BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. Did you get that last part? "....AND NOT FOR OURS (SINS) ONLY BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD" (The word "sanctified" does not appear there at all.....in fact, John the Apostle is saying that Jesus is the propitiation for "our sins"--those who have already believed Him--AND, He (Jesus) is ALSO the propitiation for those OF THE WHOLE WORLD (implying those who have not yet believed). Jesus died for all while we were YET IN OUR SINS. Then the choice is up to the individual.....accept God's gift of salvation, or not. As far as the missing text from Maxims writings, I have the pages in my S & L where they should be and its on my prestol. Don't think that we do not read them. Fourvetta, If, in fact, you have all of Makcim's writings, those which have been hidden from the general Molokan population for all of these years, then you should be ashamed to have them on your prestol.....the fact that you still want to believe that there is some "deep spiritual truth" in those pornographic writings is a telltale sign that you have not been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. You are "spiritual", that has been obvious in all of your posts. The tragedy is that the "spirit" that inspired MGR, the "new spirit" you are believing and allowing into your home, is an unholy spirit. I don't say these things to offend....only to prayerfully ask the Father to remove the spirit of delusion to believe the Rudometkin/Khlyst lie. Grace

Do you imagine that the image of Christ is a man with long hair and a beard, white robe, and a glow about Him? Or is it the perfect man, the image of God who is sinless? Are we not to be conformed to His image, the image that was lost in the garden? Did not God say, "Let US make man after our image and our likeness? The image of God is not a man of sin. But it appears to me that you do not believe that Christ's coming changed anything. Is Christ tolerant of sin or does He command that we turn from it? Does sin exist in the christian world and if it does, why? Those who are in Christ have crucified the body of sin and the lusts of it. Paul tells us; And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. One must be born again of the Word and the Spirit to enter the New Covenant of grace. Every person born in the history of time is born in the first covenant of the law and sin. The blood of Christ is enough to cover all men. If, that's if, they come to Him and the new covenant of the Spirit of which Christ is the mediator. His blood or His Spirit cannot cleanse a unbeliever. The first man of sin is born in the first covenant. The second man is born in the second covenant, the Lord from above who is sinless. Apostle Paul tells us in Hebrews 10; 15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: 16 "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." 17 Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." 18 And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin. "After that time" indicates the time that one crosses from the first covenant to the new. The old heaven and earth pass away. The new heaven and new earth where dwells righteousness. in the beginning of the same chapter, 1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. And if you call this unholy teachings, your explanation of the same scripture is???? Fourvetta: You made a definitive statement: you stated that in the New Covenant, there is no sin....nor can there be. The title of this thread is "Are Christians God?" You have been shown in Scripture that sin can and does occur in the New Covenant. Not the habitual practice of sin--purposefully sinning again and again--but because mankind, even born again, still remains in the fallen "flesh" of his physical earthly body. God, living in our hearts/minds after we are born again, does not change the fact that we are still in the weak body of flesh. That "flesh" is always at war with the things of the Spirit. THERE WILL BE TIMES WHEN A TRUE CHRISTIAN WILL SIN....and the Apostle John is saying to the believers that when this happens, we DO HAVE AN ADVOCATE, we can ask God to forgive us IN THE NAME OF JESUS who brought grace for our times of weakness. Grace does not mean that believers have a license or excuse to sin...NO. But when a Christian falls into sin, and truly repents of that sin, HE IS FORGIVEN BY GOD. You believe you are a "true believer"? You believe you have been "born again" into the New Covenant? Are you going to try and tell me that you have not sinned since your rebirth, when, according to you, you are the "the Lord from heaven"? If you say you have not sinned (since your "rebirth"), you are a liar. Here's the problem: you think and reason like a Khlyst because that is what you've been taught all of your life and you're probably on the south side of 40....my guess. This is why Makcim believed he could have sex with the virgins he picked out for himself to populate his new earthly millenial kingdom....because he believed (like a Khlyst) that once you are a "spiritual" man, the things you do are only "spiritual" acts because purportedly you are "dead to sin" (and cannot sin). Makcim did not believe that having sex with Sterafina was wrong (which landed him in prison the first time around). Makcim did not believe that having sex with young teenaged girls was wrong. Makcim did not believe that having multiple wives was wrong. Makcim believed he was the new "christ" for his generation and even thought so highly of himself that he proclaimed himself the King of (all) spirits! In Oregon, there is a Bagdanov man who is a devout Makcimist. You may have heard of him. He rid himself of his unspiritual wife and took for himself a "spiritual wife". This man wrote an extensive "spiritual" manifesto declaring such spiritual truths as no one has ever heard before....right after the pattern of his spiritual king, Makcim. This man is actually living out the very teachings of Makcim and yet now, even you Makcimisti do not want to have anything to do with him. What's up with that? You take Scripture, pull out a few words that "connect" to the general theme of your beliefs and then you reject the rest of Scripture as it pertains to the same subject matter. As an example, you did not make comment on the fact that the Scripture I quoted from I John tells you that there will be times when a believer sins....not intentionally and habitually....and that there is forgiveness for him through Jesus Christ our Lord. You are ignoring this fact. In addition, simply quoting Scripture from the Bible does NOT make your Khlyst interpretation correct. The "unholy" part is your Khlyst interpretation. Study the Khylsty and THEN read Rudometkin's writings.....you will recognize their/his theology......and suddenly, everything you have available to you of his writings will become clear as to their true intent and meaning. (There is this one caveat....first ask DHS to send you the "complete" MGR writings, put them into their correct order as written by Makcim, THEN reread his writings....it's a whole different ballgame!) Thank you for responding, I truly admire the fact that you have been so willing all of this time to continue posting. I know that it is not easy to hear "hard things" about people you have respected and loved.....it isn't the "people" that I have a problem with.....it is the untruths that they are teaching and believing. (DHS is being unfair to you and the rest of the Makcimisti by not coming forth with the whole truth about MGR's writings.....you Makcimisti who have not been allowed to read all of the writings are staking your eternal life on half-truths and lies.) I only wish the "elders" in our Molokan communities would get a spine. So many of them know the truth but are afraid of the people. Afraid they won't have a place to marry their children or bury their dead. They're just not getting it....they've turned our brotherhood into a social and political club.....there is almost no one in the "elders" department that will stand up for God's truth as it is rightly divided in the Word of God. It's desperately sad to see such nice folks being used by Satan as pawns in his unholy plan. Grace