Nick Shubin

It's easy for us to debate this, in a country where we have freedom of speech. Go to any one of the countries that are being opressed, or live under a tyranical regime, see how far a discussion like this will last. Paul, you ask for proof of these wars being ordained by God. Do you have proof that they aren't? For me, the bottom line is this, i know that God in the past ordained war. Does he currently? I don't know. What i do know, is that someone took a bullet, so that i could have the freedom to talk about this on this forum. Who am i to judge that person? We are called on to pray for them, as well as those that are placed in wordly authority over us. If one says that these men and women, who are in the armed services are going to hell, then you are no better than the hyper calvinist who claims that he is choosen over another person.

Just a couple of observations, and questions. Just like hyper calvinism, i think there is hyper pacifism. This is such a hot button topic, and cases have been made for both sides of the debate. How does God punish evil, or wickedness? Is punishment only stored up for the end times? If left to hyper pacifism, would we not live in a state of total anarchy? Is it accepted by hyper pacifists, that God has established leaders to rule over us, as shown in scripture? How does God go about protecting his people, or humanity for that matter? Are there no consequences for breaking the laws established by those that God has placed to rule over us? On a lighter note, has Alec Baldwin left for Canada as he once promised to do, because of his distaste for America? I think that seeking makes a valid point, as to bible student's theology. If he does not have the core of christian doctrine correct, what is the difference between following him, or mgr, or ghandi, or buddha?

What if no one was there to stop hitler, or any other evil leader/dictator that has, or will commit genocide? Please don't jump down my throat, i'm just asking.

Danny-boy, talks about something that is inherently contraditory, wow! Or, is it no coincidence at all that he is a devotee of the likes of Ghandi? Here is more evidence that heretics do have closely related bed-fellows. Danny-boy draws the unsuspecting visitors from one site, to this site and exposes them to a like-minded heretic and a fellow traveler to the fiery pit, where Jesus Christ assures us there will be gashing of teeth. This will be the result, sorry to say if danny continues on the same path to destruction. John 3: 16 is where I would rather he begin his journey to Truth from the God-Man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Click Here ---> HERESY PEDDLER Will he inform his audience when he is called on to speak, that he is a devotee to the Dark World of Ghandi? lastinline (& giving you the real scoop) I'm not standing up for him, but where does it say that he is affiliated with the ghandi group?

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working What does the above verse mean to you? To me, it means that we are to confess to another believer, or believers. That the prayer of a righteous person, would work. What good does it do to stand on a street corner airing out your dirty laundry? God gives us wisdom, why not make use of it? Why would you put your family in harms way to make a public confession? Is public confession in front of all, both believer and non believer scriptural? Kevin, please don't assume to know my thoughts, or attitude, as we don't know one another. The last time i saw you, you were a kid, picking up stumps in my dads vineyard. I think that hardly qualifies either one of us to make judgements, as to the others attitudes. I have learned many lessons, and have made many observations since i began my journey, both about myself, and others. The one that to me, is the most glaring, is that we become instant experts when it comes to matters of faith. It seems that in our zeal, we charge in head first, making bold statements, trying to correct everyone, yet we lack wisdom! I pray that God gives us wisdom in all that we do, and that when we speak His message, we do so in full knowledge, and understanding. All for His glory!

Ok, not to many people want to discuss this topic. But is there nothing other than cults, mgr, and porn to discuss?

We all need a good laugh every now and then, especially with friends and family. But these guys took laughter to a whole new level! Click here - I don't know what that has to do with my question. So far, you've brought in gloom and doom, porn, and a bunch of laughing crackpots. Humans are afflicted by many sins, porn is not the only one. God bless you for following the calling that you feel that God has for you, but my opinion, is that some subjects are better handled in a discrete manner. The Bible shows many of Gods attributes, is humor one of them? Yes, it's important to be concerned with the fate of others, but to what end? Do we concern ourselves to the point that we no longer see the joyful things that God has placed on this earth? Do we become so uptight, that no one wants to be around us? Why would God give us such a range of emotions, and we try to styfle them? Because we allowed anger, bitternes, pride, laziness to creep in. With all that said, do you think it's possible to discuss the question without taking detours?

I remember that Steve. If we are created in His image, doesn't it stand to reason, that since we have a sense of humor, He would also?

A Time for Everything 3:1 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: 2 a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; 3 a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 a time to tear, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.

The temporal joy of life can sometimes slip through our fingers, especially with our spouses and children. I agree with you, and believe it is the joy of the believers that sometimes attract others to the word of God. And we do have joy and peace in Jesus Christ. 4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Ps 23:4 KJV But, in saying that, the gloom and doom is getting gloomier and doomier. “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch. Mal 4:1 NASB 50 percent of CHRISTIAN men are addicted to porn. 20 percent of CHRISTIAN women struggle with pornography. 47 percent of CHRISTIAN families said pornography is a problem in the home. CHRISTIAN families are torn apart every day. Children separated from a loving home, forced to deal with the ugliness of divorce. The molokan brotherhood is not immune to this gloom. How many friends do we know that are going to go to sleep alone tonight, because their spouse decided the bar and motel room is a better place to be. How many wives are raising their kids alone. How many men are waiting and praying alone tonight, knowing she is never coming back. How many will cry themselves to sleep tonight, bitter tears of darkness and depression. The scripture seems to call on the Spiritual Christians to share in the burdens of their struggling brothers and sisters in Christ. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you. Jas 4:8-10 NASB Good topic Nick. Theology and pet doctrines can distract us from time to time. It is very important to have good, true theology. But theology without works is dead. And there is a dying world out there who are waiting for the messengers of God to bring to them the good news of the gospel. Sorry for the serious response. I see too much hurt and pain out there, and it tends to bring me down. Anybody else? Kevin Nazaroff Thanks for bringing me down Kevin... Just kidding.

I think about this from time to time. No, it's not a heavy theological question, nor does it have anything to do with salvation. But i wonder, does God want us to be uptight fuddy-duddies? Please discuss...

"Does it really matter?"

If i knew for a fact, that your intentions were honourable, i would induldge you with an answer. But your actions say otherwise. You can call me names, say that i am running away, but there is nothing to be gained by anyone, by giving you an answer. I took your litmus test, i answered with what i believe truthfuly, yet you continue to call me into question.

But let's get back to Pauls question, which i think is a good one. Does it really matter? People rail against molokanism, yet, within mainstream christianity, you see one denomination pit itself against another. Who is right? Who is wrong? I think that's the reason that we study. To try to learn the attributes of God, that in doing so, we equip ouselves with the truth, and that we would be better able to tell a forgery, or a falsehood. All of this banter about calvinism, hyper calvinism, armanianism etc... Who am i to think that i know the mind of God? Who am i to make judgement on who is saved, or who isn't? Often what i see with those that follow hyper calvinism, is a yay for me, boo for you attitude. Why does Apostle Paul warn us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? I think it's so we don't become so full of ourselves. I don't beging to think that i have the answers, i'm just throwing out some thoughts.

Because some books are written by gifted individuals that are capable to teach others the timeless truths that are found in scripture. Neither Calvin nor Arminius claimed their writings to supersede or replace scripture like MGR. Calvinism is a summery of how salvation occurs according to what is written in scripture. There are no added fillers or preservatives. Arminianism is short sighted and in the end glorifies man, not God. It is one of the extreme sides to take, with Hyper-Calvinism being the other extreme view. Calvinism is the only "middle of the road" view properly explaining the total work of salvation based on scripture. The others are totally wrong. This is a silly question. God commands to seek Him, to learn about Him, and to make sure that what is said is in accordance with His Word. How will anyone know what others believe without reading a creed, confession of faith, or their writings? How do you know what your church believes? In regards to the "unneeded grief", please take a look see at 1 Cor 11:18-19. Apostle Paul says divisions and factions are needed so that those who are genuine may be recognized. So these topics of discussion and study are good for the church. God does the convicting and saving; therefore, it is not how the message is presented. God does not rely on smooth or persuasive speech to get the job done. Nevertheless, we are to preach, for that is commanded. God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to be the means of bringing the chosen to faith by hearing the Gospel message. Yes, God is JUST. everyone of us deserves Hell because we are sinners. God owes you nothing. God is God, so he can do whatever He desires. This is an Armininian view. That is, that man has to do something in order to save himself or others. You have to meet God half way by believing, then He'll do the rest. You are just sick, you need a doctor who is God and He'll make you well. When all is said and done it comes down to man's decision to choose, to work, to save himself. If he doesn't he is lost. The Calvinistic approach, is you are totally dead in sin. Therefore, you have absolutely no ability to help yourself or others to life. Your salvation is totally dependent on the resurrecting power of God. When all is said and done, all glory goes to God because the grace he has shown you. This is known as Hyper-Calvinism, the other side of the spectrum. Again an erroneous view for obvious reasons. I highly recommend to study this further. Read resources from both sides, then make your decision on whether it is garbage or not. If you purchase any resources from a Calvary Chapel book store they are biased to favor Arminian theology. I can give you some stuff to read that is on the net if you like. When John Calvin brought his religion to a small town of around 15000, he pretty much convinced the local hierarchy to adopt his teachings as the official town religion. Anyone who denounced this new religion was summarily tortured, and/or murdered. Actual numbers of dead range from around 300 to several thousand. Oops. Doesn't sound like my kinda religion. You people ought to watch what you are believing in. MGR not sounding so bad after all? If one reads the basic history of John Calvin, you will see that it is true, that he was responsible for the deaths of a few. Contrast that to the writtings of mgr, who calls out for the deaths of those that don't accept him, and the reward of eternal life for carrying out those murders that he offers.