Markovich

lttb, what would you say to that? I gave my thoughts on your theory above. I wish I could post in real time, people keep missing my posts.

You better double check with your pastor John Hagee because according to him there were no such things as neanderthals. You are avoiding answering my question. No, I don't know how to, I've never even heard of it. Now when are you going to answer the dozen questions I asked you?

Yes, I've heard it for years, the concern that the church is shrinking, this is a concern that the elders themselves admit, so it's nothing new. You could be right that it reflects the condition of the church, or you could be wrong, look at Mormons, they're the fastest growing church in the world, would you say they are in good Spiritual health? They say Molokans don't want non-Molokans to join their churches, but what you are saying contradicts that, because the example you give is almost typical of any church. I've been to new churches: you go, stand in the back somewhere, then if you want after the service get introduced to the pastor, the pastor is usually a nice guy and gives you some pamphlets or something, but it's up to you to come back. The Trinity is a difficult concept for me to grasp. I've been to American churches, some are better than others. It doesn't matter what I think, if you get something from them that's all that matters.

You better double check with your pastor John Hagee because according to him there were no such things as neanderthals. "Ah condemn yoo ta heell!"

There's more to it than that. It's glorification to an unholy spirit. Steadfast knows he is saved, because he bought a ticket to heaven on TBN.

All of the songs in American churches were written within the last fifty years. You're using some capricious standard that has absolutely no verifiability to claim that one song sounds like a chant and another doesn't. Based on what, your study of music theory? Does a certain arrangement of eigth-notes lend them to a chant? Or perhaps a staff measured in 3/4 time is less chant-like than 4/4 time? What the heck is this based on? Is it because your songs resemble cheap modern rock songs, rather than the choral style? Hahaha, show me some scientific evidence, other than what you feel, because your bitterness doesn't lend you credibility. I guess it's okay when Protestants sing with their palms raise in worship, because the slight difference in tempo and the verse-chorus-verse-chorus-verse-chorus played by the awful wedding band in your church meets your fastidious standards. How about I just call you a hypocrite. Hey, did you read the verse before the one you quoted? It says to pray in secret. Does your church do that? No? I guess you go to an heretical church. Prepare the stones! Wrong! All of the songs sung in American, I mean neenash churches were not written within the last fifty years. How do you know this? Have you ever seen a hymnal? If you look carefully, you will see the author's name and the date the song was written. Some hymns sung today were written as early as the 1600's or 1700's. Do you think that are even some old American, I mean neenash hymns in some of the pesniks? Ah... yes. I've been to American churches, and I don't think they had adult contemporary music in the 1600's. HAHAHA. There are no "hymnals" in modern American churches, there is only a big projector screen with the words on it. If your church sings choral music it's probably not much different than Molokan music.

Their are preparations being made for a four (4) day fast, a very good example of vain repetition wouldn't you say? Since God knows your prayer before you ask, then a one day fast at the very most should be enough to enlighten the church, right?........ You are being hypocrital with the secret prayer closet belief then following up with the religious customs of a 4 day fast. It's clear what you really believe, because, it's by their works you will know them, scripture says....... Matkovich, you have the mark in your forehead and in your hands. You belong to a false religion! Four (4) day fast. Huh!...."And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward." Matthew 6:5 NKJV If you really want to help our children then make your church is right with God. The Molokan church has NEVER brought anyone to the Lord, because according to scripture they don't have the Lord..... Who does not acknowledge the Son does not have the Father. Do you pray openly in your church, or in private?

Who says they can't? Non-Molokans have gone to Molokan churches before. My grandmother told us of a family one time who were looking for a new church, I guess, so they were allowed inside to sit through a service at her church. Well, the family decided not to come back after that, no one told them they couldn't though. The point I've been trying to make, if you bothered to read, is that it's unlikely someone would want to join a Molokan church because it is too cultural, the same reason why you are not a member of Victory Outreach: ELA Chapter. Of course it's in English, if it was in Spanish you wouldn't attend, would you... Just like someone who doesn't speak Russian wouldn't attend a Molokan church. Who are you kidding, mistaking SUBMIT and SUPPORT in this passage is a GROSS error! A Christian should NEVER support an evil government. You spreading around your misunderstanding of this verse is VERY dangerous. That's TWO passages this thread where you have made significant semantic errors.

I asked you an honest question and you call me names? You still haven't answered my questions.

You still haven't answered my questions either. Do you live in LA, and if so, what part? What is your "test procedure"? All of the songs in American churches were written within the last fifty years. You're using some capricious standard that has absolutely no verifiability to claim that one song sounds like a chant and another doesn't. Based on what, your study of music theory? Does a certain arrangement of eigth-notes lend them to a chant? Or perhaps a staff measured in 3/4 time is less chant-like than 4/4 time? What the heck is this based on? Is it because your songs resemble cheap modern rock songs, rather than the choral style? Hahaha, show me some scientific evidence, other than what you feel, because your bitterness doesn't lend you credibility. I guess it's okay when Protestants sing with their palms raise in worship, because the slight difference in tempo and the verse-chorus-verse-chorus-verse-chorus played by the awful wedding band in your church meets your fastidious standards. How about I just call you a hypocrite. Hey, did you read the verse before the one you quoted? It says to pray in secret. Does your church do that? No? I guess you go to an heretical church. Prepare the stones!

You still haven't answered my question, why is it unlikely you'll ever become a member of Victory Outreach? You said: "Christians should support those that God has put in authority in prayer (at the very least)" Then you showed me a verse that is supposed to verify this, but the verse says nothing about a person being required to support their government. That is the second time this thread you have misinterpreted a bible passage.

Scripture warns not to chant. How do you know the spirit you felt was holy? What is your testing procedure? Chanting, huh? What's your "testing procedure"?

As I stated above, there are plenty of things that could make them apostates, but if they are considered apostates it doesn't seem to affect them, or they haven't noticed it. I also dislike the word "ne-nash", if I ever hear any Molokans saying it I will make it known. I can't speak for my family members, all I know is that a lot of them go to American churches. They buy their meat from regular grocery stores, but they don't eat pork or shellfish. I'm not against Molokans being kosher, it's their choice what they eat. The bible doesn't require non-Jews to eat kosher, but there is nothing wrong with it if they do. I didn't say they have no problem with it, they would like me to go to church, but they accept me if I don't. Yes, I would like to start attending regular services. I have always fought my Molokan identity, and wondered why God gave me a Molokan family, now as I mature I'm not so resentful. The Molokans I've known have always treated me with kindness and never given me a reason to say anything bad about them. I want to give the Molokan church a chance, and become an active member, if God wills it I'll stay, if He doesn't, then so be it. Does the church require a family to put out a son who marries outside the church? No, I don't think so. That is a family matter.

Reality check. America is segregated. Do you live in LA, what part? I've been to several American churches, but the only time I ever felt the Holy Spirit was in a Molokan church. This is coming from someone who is NOT highly religious. Say what you will.

Wow! It was people like you who "supported" communism, "supported" fascism, that really makes me sick to my stomach to think that you would have "supported" Hitler based on your misunderstanding of a simple verse. Nowhere in that passage does it require one to support government. Realistically that little kid would never want to join a Molokan church, just as I would never want to join Victory Outreach, even though I have nothing against them. Every Christian church should open it's doors to everyone who would wish to join. But I don't understand how someone could join and ethnicity though. The crux of the problem is the co-mingling of religion and ethnicity, I think it's similar to the problem faced by Jews. If Molokans numbered in the millions instead of thousands, I can guarantee you you'd see non-ethnic Molokans, just as there are non-ethnic Jews. There is a predominate ethnicity among the Victory Outreach fellowship that limits my participation in it. It is not an institutionalized limitation, but I don't dress the same, speak the common second language, have the same mannerisms, the same background, the same social issues to deal with. You say you know the head honcho, but you aren't a due paying member. Why is that? You still didn't answer my question, why is it unlikely you'll ever become a member of Victory Outreach? Sounds like a fun day you had there, I'm glad to see different groups working together, but at the end of the day, the Blacks and Mexicans went their separate ways, to their separate churches. That is the reality you choose not to accept. To make sure I've answered your question clearly, I don't know of any official church policy of exclusion, so I am the wrong person to ask. Personally I have no problem with non-Russians joining a Molokan church, as long as they are willing to respect the beliefs of that church. I wouldn't walk into a Catholic church, demand to join, and then tell them they shouldn't have a pope.