orion

I agree to... not answering the foolish arguments of fools, Just as the Molokan church has a criteria for being a full member...so is your forum.

Seeking...I totally agree.

Total forgiveness means no revenge against your brother. Another words we forgive someone but never invite him for dinner, never say hello because of what he did even though we forgave him. Complete forgiveness holds no grudge. His past trespass is as far as the East is from the West. ***

When speaking of the veil that was torn, was it literal or physical? It does seem that Greg Laurie was referring to the temple during the time of Jesus, if thats the case, he was in error. *** Never literally happened. The Holy of Holies was a empty room at the time of Christ's death. No Ark. The Holy of Holies meant nothing without it. The Prophet Jeremiah hid the Ark in a cave on Mt. Nebo 4 It was also in the same document that the prophet, having received an oracle, ordered that the tent and the ark should follow with him, and that he went out to the mountain where Moses had gone up and had seen the inheritance of God. 5 Jeremiah came and found a cave-dwelling, and he brought there the tent and the ark and the altar of incense; then he sealed up the entrance. 6 Some of those who followed him came up intending to mark the way, but could not find it. 7 When Jeremiah learned of it, he rebuked them and declared: "The place shall remain unknown until God gathers his people together again and shows his mercy. 8 Then the Lord will disclose these things, and the glory of the Lord and the cloud will appear, as they were shown in the case of Moses, and as Solomon asked that the place should be specially consecrated." Jeremiah prophesied that the Ark will no longer come to mind or be rebuilt. 15 And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding. 16 “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore. When the Seventh Angel sounded, the Ark appeared in heaven. RevelationS 11 19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail. The whole christian world waits for a fairy tale that will never come.

My question is very relevant to this topic "who would be welcomed" Seeking ... I ask you a honest question... Why am I not welcomed to be a full member?

Seeking you say I don't ask honest question? Here it is again, whats the delay in making me a full member? I know you and lastinline are two of the admins. *** Great swelling words, yet orion is like clouds blowing over dry land without giving rain, promising much but producing nothing. 15 He will bring the people of the world to judgment. He will convict the ungodly of all the evil things they have done in rebellion and of all the insults that godless sinners have spoken against him." 16 These people are grumblers and complainers, doing whatever evil they feel like. They are loudmouthed braggarts, and they flatter others to get favors in return (Jude 1:15-16 NLT)

Fourvetta is a full member and you HATE his guts. gee let me see, maybe he is the admin, together with you. Lastinline do you but in on a post that is not addressed to you?

Hey seeking? I got an honest question for ya... whats the delay in making me a full member? ***

Steadfast, The thief didn't need to be baptised to be saved because he was still under the old covenant. The old covenant does not apply to us because we are under the new convenant. Whether the thief was baptised or not is irrelevant. Jesus is Lord and Savior. Only He has the right to forgive men and decides who goes to heaven ie: thief on the cross. Today, if we seek His forgiveness, it must be according to the conditions He has revealed in His Word. Matthew 28:20 "he who believes and is baptized shall be saved" Does this apply to us today or not? *** Orion, Where in the Bible can I read about the Believing thief who ascended to Heaven the same day Jesus did, where can I read about the thief's baptism. How about a pomnenki or xtini? If you are talking about water baptism being an essential for Salvation, their is no such account or doctrine.

Greetings GoodDay, Thanks for the wonderful reply. There for a while I thought you were starting to pick up the bad habit of judging and condemning like the others. I sometimes find myself in the wrong spirit as they are and say things that are not productive. Being just a member my privileges such as PM and other features are not allowed, but I would like some day to share a cup of coffee with you. ***

Greetings GoodDay, You say that salvation is not assumed. You made that statement apparently in response to what I said that my salvation is secured by the blood of Jesus What makes you assume that my salvation is not secured? ***

GoodDay please show me where I have denied Jesus Christ?

GoodDay, rest assured my salvation is secured by the Blood of Jesus Christ. I m not a disciple of fourvetta, there are some things that he writes I agree with, some I don't and some things I have no idea what he is saying, but I read all the scriptures he presents and try to follow his thoughts. One thing about him is he keeps his cool and holds his tongue unlike seeking and his buddy lastinline and to some extent rest of us. May I ask you a question?...you say that he, fourvetta, has "blatantly denied Jesus Christ" can you post what he said that makes you say that. ***

Great post Kevin, I appreciate the response. Couple of things, the "they" you mentioned were the disciples, the believers, not the general public. The public began to gather together after the Holy Spirit fell upon the disciples who in turn began speaking in other languages and then if you recall is when the people said that they were drunk. Shortly after Peter began his great sermon and thats when" they were pierced to the heart" There is a requirement to be a member of the body of Christ and that requirement is [i]"Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.[/i] I don't believe unrepentant individuals can be part of the body. If a converted sinner continues to sin what is he converted from? What are your thoughts about what Jesus said to the man He just healed regarding "to sin no more". [i]Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you." John 5:14[/i] Attending and joining are two different issues. If anyone wishes to attend a Molokan church he should be allowed. However joining is another matter. Most churches have some sort of a criteria for membership, molokans are no different, perhaps even more stringent rules than others. If a church has rules and policies in place and someone does not honor them and is denied membership is that church showing "partialty?" Is it sinning? *** Yes. We have been bought. We are not our own and we do not choose how, where or in what manner to live out our Christianity. That is all up to Jesus. All we do is serve and worship Him. We die daily. The Molokan church should also have the same attitude. The Molokan church should not choose how, where or in what manner to live out Christianity. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. Eph 2:13 NASB so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. Ro 12:5 NASB For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 1 Co 12:12 NASB Absolutely! How do you think the church started? Who were the "they" in verse one? Who needed to repent in verse 38? So this gathering of sinners turned into the "Church". And there were alot of sinners there. Enough to sink a ship! 1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place… 23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death…36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ac 2:1, 23, 36-38 Yes, this can be true. It depends on the motive of the person saying this. Godly motive=This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 1 Ti 1:15 NKJV Un-Godly motive="Do we walk on water on Sunday and then walk on everyone the rest of the week? He knows and loves us anyway. We are not capable of living without sin. I have tried for many years to stop sinning, but to no avail. Believers are not cut off, but pruned. We are pruned daily. This is the life of a converted sinner. It is not good things that are pruned, but sin that is pruned. Only the unconverted-self proclaimed-bypassed the blood of Christ person will be cut off. 2 “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. Jn 15:2 So, how much fruit is there in the Molokan church? I believe it is a continuing process. Salvation by grace is free, but everything else comes at a cost. The converted Christian is commanded to take up his cross, hold on to the plow and not look back, hate all else including family and religion, and follow Jesus. So, if we deny someone who wants to attend or join our church, are we sinning? But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. Jas 2:9 NASB Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: Ac 10:34 KJV kevin

So then is Ivan the older brother? Please correct me. *** Just curious....how old are you? Your participation on the forum comes across like you are very young. David was 21 years old, never married. Those who spoke at the service at the mortuary about the young girl he was dating, spoke as if it were a foregone conclusion that they intended to get married one day. David's older brother is married to a non-Molokan young woman, and he and his wife have 3 young sons. .