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Disciple, Yeah, I believe that guy is off the mark. He tries to point to the thought that people are claiming inheritance because of blood lines. This just isn't so. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Firstly, the lost tribes are not the Jews. Jews ONLY came from two of the tribes (House of Judah). Judah --> Judites --> Jews. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Secondly, this is not about racism or blood-line inheritance as this writer tries to imply. It's about correctly understanding the power of God and His divine plan. Surely the 12 tribes did not consist of only anglo-saxon people as the writer tries to submit. We learn this from reading God's instructions to His people. Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. There are three importances for the people of God: 1. Sojourn with thee - Live by faith 2. Keep the passover - A reference to keeping God's laws (following the guidelines of the covenant) 3. Be circumcised - The sign of following God's covenant by faith If these three things were fulfilled, then that person was surely a part of God's people no matter where they came from - no matter what race. Racism has nothing to do with this. Leviticus 19:33-34 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. Ezekiel 47:21-23 So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD. Beautiful examples of God’s acceptance, and His requirements for becoming a part of His people. Again, the writer you presented is wrong in thinking this is about race. Now as for the two Olive trees. Speaking to Israel, the LORD says: Jeremiah 11:16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken. The olive tree then became TWO. The LORD broke it, split it into two trees. Now we have a cultivated olive tree on one side - House of Judah, and a wild olive tree on the other - House of Israel. They used to be one tree, but now are two. The two sticks are to become one: Ezekiel 37:16-22 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah,and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions: And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all. The word 'stick' above in Hebrew is 'ets' which actually means 'tree'. So the prophecy from Ezekiel is specifically about gathering His people from all the nations together with Judah. So He will bring us together with the Jews in the end times, and we will again become ONE people, ONE kingdom. God was directly speaking with the 'son of man' concerning this prophecy. Who is the son of man? Jesus Christ, our one King. This is God's mission given to His Son Jesus Christ; to reunite the tribes as one kingdom! Ezekiel 37:23-24 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. Now how was Christ supposed to do this? God divorced the House of Israel (Jeremiah 3:8). So by God's own law of divorce (Deuteronomy 24), He cannot take Israel (10 tribes) back again. The only way for that law to be removed is if the husband dies. Jesus came and died on the cross to remove THAT LAW. Now He can freely take us (the church, all 12 tribes) for a wife again. Check out Romans 7:1-6! Paul is writing to believers, not Jews. And he's specifically referencing what I just wrote above. About how by Jesus' death, the law of divorce is removed. So putting two and two together... if Paul is writing to non-Jews about how they are no longer under the divorce that God gave them, then it goes to prove that all current day Christians are considered to be as the House of Israel. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thirdly, we can take a look at the lost sheep. The lost sheep are clearly defined in Matthew 10:6 as being the House of Israel... not the House of Judah, NOT THE JEWS. The writer's explanation of John 10:16 is just confusing. Jeremiah makes it very clear that there are many 'folds' of sheep within the ONE flock. Jeremiah 23:3-8 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. This post is getting long, but ultimately, this writer's understanding isn't justified... and definitely not with clear explanations of scripture. We cannot deny the blessings given to Ephraim and Manasseh, or to the 12 sons of Jacob. They are very real and very specific to the end times. In fact just preceding the blessings, Jacob says this: Genesis 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days. These blessings are prophecies of things that will happen in the last days. They are happening now. I think I've shown how anyone can become part of those 12 tribes by God's own commandments. So this rules out race. And I think I've explained the two olive trees, and the folds of sheep in Jesus' flock. I may have missed a few things, but here's a couple links to sources of great information. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR3QyHN-gXQ http://stevenmcollins.com/index.html One other thing. Take the characteristics of the House of Israel which I wrote in my previous post and see if they can be applied to the Jews today. It can't be done. The Jews did not forget God's name. They have always lived in groups together, not necessarily among Gentiles. They have not forgotten God's law. They are not 'far off' when the majority of them live directly in Israel. And finally, they are not the lost sheep. I hope that helps explain my views and understanding. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Could it really be all about Israel? 12 tribes with one king - 12 apostles with one Messiah 12 baskets left over full of bread Jesus says in Matthew 19:28 "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Jesus heals a girl that is 12 years old Jesus starts teaching in the temple when He was 12 He says there are 12 hours in a day (John 11:9) 12 months in a year In Revelation there are 12,000 members from each tribe that are sealed 12 angels 24 elders (2 from each tribe) 12 gates with 12 pearls 12 constellations in the heavens A tree of life that produces 12 fruits for each of the 12 months There is ONE GOD There is ONE COVENANT There is ONE LAW There is ONE MESSIAH There is ONE PEOPLE ~ Jim Staley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Molokan people are NOT Jews. I don't believe there is any Jewishness in us at all. First off, the Jews are ONLY 2 of the 12 tribes of Israel: the tribe of Judah and Benjamin (The House of Judah). The other 10 tribes of Israel (House of Israel) are also NOT Jews. Any Christian of today is, I believe, from those 10 tribes. This of course is all found in the Old Testament. Lets start with the blessing upon Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Manasseh: Genesis 48:14-20 14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn. 15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day, 16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. 17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head. 18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head. 19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations. 20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh. In Hebrew the exact translation of "Multitude of Nations" means "fullness of the non-Hebrews" implying that they will become Gentiles. Now it is also prophesied of the House of Israel: They will forget the name of God (Jeremiah 23:27) How many Christians really KNOW God's name? Not too many, but more are learning everyday. They will live among the Gentiles (Hosea 8:8) Where do we live? Among Gentiles. They will forget the law of God (Hosea 8:12) How many Christians today actually follow the law of God? Very few. They will be called "not My people" (Hosea 2:23) Being a Gentile meant that we were not God's people. They are called "far off" (Isaiah 57:19) We were far off, but are 'close' now. Ephesians 2:13 - But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. They are the Lost Sheep (Jeremiah 50:6) Who did Jesus come for? Matthew 15:24 - But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This fits Christianity perfectly. It is also prophesied that Christ will gather us back to Him (Jeremiah 23:3-8). This began during Jesus' ministry. He made the apostles to be fishers of men. We are spreading the good news to call back those of the 10 tribes to Jesus. And the great thing is that all who believe on Jesus and obey God will be considered a part of those 10 tribes. Following the law of God does not make us Jews. It makes us obedient to God. Now for the Jews... they too will be saved. Jeremiah 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely:... Christians (House of Israel) will live safely because we're already saved. But the Jews, in my opinion, will suffer through tribulation to then become believers... they 'shall' be saved. Jesus died for BOTH houses - the House of Judah and the House of Israel. John 11:51-52 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. The existing nation was Judah. The one's scattered abroad are the House of Israel (Deuteronomy 30:3).

I hadn't read everything on this post, but I thought I'd reply with what I've found in my studies. The word "baptism" means "immersion or submersion". If you baptize with water, a simple sprinkle or light wash is not considered baptism. Total immersion is required for this physical act. When John baptized, he did it at the Jordon river, why? If a little sprinkle of water were enough, he could have done it in the town. But he didn't, he went to baptize the multitude of people down by the river because the river was sufficient to totally immerse people in water (Matthew 3:4-6). Now as for baptism with the Holy Spirit or with water... I will say this. The apostles AFTER Christ's resurrection still baptized with water. One of the best examples is when Philip baptized the eunuch. Acts 8:36-38 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. This, along with Acts 10:44-48, shows the order with which baptism is conducted. 1. Believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God 2. Receive the Holy Spirit (baptism by Holy Spirit) - this is seen in Acts 10. 3. Baptism by water (total immersion) Baptism by water is always done AFTER the established belief in Jesus as the Son of God. Thus it is only possible for those who are old enough to understandably believe. Babies baptisms by water does not seem to follow Biblical doctrine. But I haven't studied this in full detail as of yet. This is only what I've recently come across. I too am continuing in this study.

More accounts of Molokan History: The Church at Home and Abroad, Volume 4 PHILADELPHIA, SEPTEMBER, 1888. EDITORIAL. THE MOLOKANS OF RUSSIA. Journeying through - trans-Caucasian Russia, from Tiflis, its metropolis, to Djulfa or the river Aras, which separates that province from Persia, a journey of about two hundred and fifty miles, our Nestorian guide spoke of some of the villages through which we passed as " Molokan" villages. Returning by the same route, after a month's journeying in Persia, I thought that these Molokan villages had a slightly more pleasant aspect than those of the Moslems and Yezidees through so many of which I had journeyed, and in some of which I had lodged and sojourned in Persia. There was more that suggested some ideas of thrift and of- civilized comfort about ths dwellings, and I could sometimes see an unveiled and womanly woman in the street. Tarrying a few days in Tiflis, I was courteously visited by Rev. Abraham Amirkaniantz, the learned translator for the British and Foreign Bible Society and its superintendent of colportage. He spoke with much interest of the Molokans and of the fine opportunities for evangelistic work among them. They are dissenters from the established church of Russia. They were formerly persecuted and banished from Russia proper to the region south of Mt. Caucasus, which Russia acquired by conquest early in the present century. Their good behavior, their sobriety, industry and thrift have won for them toleration and some degree of favor from the government. Mr. Amirkaniantz informed me that, rejecting all human priesthood and all ecclesiasticism, the Molokans accept Christ as their Saviour, and the Bible as the word of God and their rule of faith and life. In some respects they resemble the primitive Friends. He informed me that they had frequent meetings for worship and the study of the Bible, which he was accustomed to atteud and in which he took part. It was soon arranged that I should accompany him to such a meeting on Friday evening. In a large room in one of their dwellings we found between twenty and thirty people, well clad and of courteous manners—people who earned their living by honest industries, mechanics, tradesmen, etc. Their devotional services consisted of prayers and songs, in both of which they used only Bible words. Their chanting was in a slow measure, occupying a good deal of time, and was not confined to the Psalms,, but was sometimes in the New Testament. Mr. Amirkaniantz would show me the place in the English version where they were chanting in Slavonic. The greater part of the time was occupied in the study of the Scriptures. The exercises were all in the Russian language, but Mr. Amirkaniantz interpreted to me much that was said, and also interpreted to them such replies as I was able to make to questions addressed to me. These questions often related to difficult passages of Scripture, but they were never in a tone of cavil or of idle curiosity, but always in evident desire to find the true meaning of the word of God. I have never sat with a company of Bible students who seemed more sincere and earnest in their study. Each brother who chose to speak expressed his opinion with the utmost freedom. Differing opinions, however sharply differing, were uniformly treated with good temper and courtesy. When I spoke, as I was desired to do, I was listened to with the most courteous attention, not as a clergyman (for they acknowledge no such distinctions), but as a Christian brother from a distant land to whom, peradventure, God might have granted some view of his holy word which would be profitable to them. I thought it possible that they might be giving disproportionate attention to obscure portions of Scripture, and when they asked me to expound Peter's saying about Christ preaching to the spirits in prison, I remarked that Peter found some things in his brother Paul's writings hard to be understood; but, as for me, I found nothing in Paul's writings harder to be understood than this saying of Peter himself. I added that, if ever I shall be where Peter is, I intend to ask him to explain the passage. In reply to this I was pleasantly but gravely asked if we are not taught that all Scripture is profitable, and therefore to be studied. To this I, of course, assented, but reminded them further that Peter advises us to take heed unto the word " as unto a light that shineth in a dark place." We are to study all the Scriptures, but, I think, with the expectation that while they are a sufficient " light to our feet and lamp to our path," directing our way safely through this world like a torch in a great cave, they will still leave it a dark place. Light enough will fall on some objects to make them perceptible, but not enough to enable us to see them distinctly. The Bible itself awakens us to some inquiries which will not be fully answered to us in this world. They showed themselves exceedingly familiar with the Bible in their own version, including the apocryphal books. I expressed the opinion that those books, not being included in " The Scriptures " which our Lord endorsed, are not to be held as of divine authority; but we did not go into any discussion on that subject. This earnest and brotherly discussion was continued until eleven o'clock. I afterward understood that this is their usual time of closing their meetings. On Saturday evening I was present, by urgent invitation, in a much larger room, filled with not less, I judged, than two hundred men and women, all showing great eagerness to hear what might be spoken concerning the word of God. I noted some striking peculiarities. When I entered the room, nearly all of them rose and stood a moment. This, I afterwards learned, was not a mere, courtesy. It occurred several times as others came in, and I was told that they do so whenever any one enters, it being understood that he pauses a moment at the door in silent prayer, in which they unite with him, before he takes his seat. The songs and prayers were in Bible words, as on the previous evening, but with some additional forms of low bowing at intervals, of which, perhaps, I should have seen the appropriateness if I had understood the language. The greater part of the time was occupied, as before, with questions and remarks concerning Scripture by a number of leading men, in which they kindly desired me to participate as much as I would. At about ten o'clock tea was served, a delirious beverage, the uninebriating cheer of which I felt grateful for at that hour; and again the conference was continued until eleven o'clock. On the next evening (Sabbath), being assembled in the same room, they invited me to address them early, and then, in view of my need of rest, in expectation of going on my journey on the next morning, they kindly permitted me to withdraw, after a very affectionate response had been made by their "presbyter." So they style their chosen moderator; but the title implies no ordination and no permanent rank. Two of their young men accompanied me in a phaeton to my hotel with exceeding courtesy, conversing pleasantly with each other in Russian, and allowing me to ride in silent meditation. I afterwards learned that that meeting did not close earlier than the others. I was assured by Mr. Amirkaniantz that there are thousands of these worthy people in Russia, especially in that region south of the Caucasus. A pretty good account of this people is given in a book entitled " Russia," by D. McKenzie Wallace. It is pleasant to know that thousands of such honest and virtuous people are diligently aud devoutly studying the Bible in such a country as Russia, and are courageously and conscientiously doing their own thinking about its teachings. The good man to whom I am indebted for those memorable evenings with Russian Protestants is now an exile in Siberia. A thrilling account of his banishment was giveu in the October (1887) number of The Church At Home And Abroad (p. 390), from the pen of Rev. S. G. Wilson, of Persia. " His wife chose to suffer with him," says Mr. Wilson; " so, with their seven children, they went forth across the snowy Caucasus towards the Siberian frontier, exiles for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus." Later advices have informed us that in exile Mr. Amirkaniantz is not prevented from receiving and correcting the proof sheets of the Turkish Old Testament, on the translation of which he has spent years of labor, and which is now passing through the press in Germany. Thus, like Paul, our brother can rejoice, and we can rejoice with him, that, whatever befalls him, the word of God is not bound nor banished, nor can it be. It is in Russia, as it is in Turkey, to stay—to stay as the leaven stays in the meal—pervasive, potent, transforming.

I think these accounts of our early Molokan forefathers are amazing! I'd love to look into this stuff further. Michael_P_Lediaev, I had a few questions regarding this list of resources you used... Livanov Fedor V. (in Russian) Raskolniki I Ostorozniki (Dissenters and Prisoners) 1872 Vol I pp 204-222 (is this the book found at the UMCA library?) Fedor V. Livanov, Raskolniki I Ostorozhniki (Dissenters and Prisoners) 1872 Vol II pp 178-206 Stephen Grellet. Memoirs, Life and Gospel Labours of Stephen Grellet 1877 pp 449-471 William Allen. Selections from his life and correspondence. Vol I 1847 pp 398-420 Otechestvenaii Zapiski (National Records), April 1828. No. 96, Part 34, Pages 44-58 (I'm unclear about this resource... what National Records? Can you explain how I might go about looking this up?) Sir Donald MacKenzie Wallace, M.A., Russia 1877 Vol I pp 447-466 (is this from the book, "A Short History of Russia and the Balkan States" ?) Thanks in advance for the help! Do you have other resources? Can you list them for me?

Coffee - I'm sorry to have posted my point of view on a forum that I knew full well felt differently. I was expecting rebuttal, as stated in my post, but wasn't expecting a philosophical debate about 'rudometkinites'. Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge of the rudometkinites, but I'm really not interested. I thought I could share something that was based purely on the Word of God with true scripture supporting the understanding that God revealed to me without having someone bring it back to a rudometkinite debate. But alas, I was wrong. Maybe we should all try to spend more time in the Word of God, and less time boasting of our own understanding of a group of people. I've requested my post to be withdrawn.

After Christ later revealed Himself to Thomas, up-close and personal, Christ with devine authority tells Thomas, "Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” Thomasa's immediate response to declare Jesus Christ as, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus then immediately responds back with “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” I believe that we can ascertain that Jesus was not only declaring that to be Blessed, one must not only believe that He was/is Alive, one must also declare Him Lord and God, just is Thomas clearly declared. lastinline (yes and again, where simple is and a simpleton sees simply) So I thought I'd share my 2 cents on Thomas' words. I truly believe the details of the Bible are there for a purpose (the order in which it's written, the words used, etc...). God makes it quite clear who Jesus is and what we must believe for salvation both BEFORE Thomas' verse and AFTER. God must have figured that man would blow Thomas' words out of proportion, just like many are doing today, so He made sure clarity was given both BEFORE and AFTER in the same chapter (or section of writtings). BEFORE - we read that Jesus has a God. John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. AFTER - we read that what we MUST believe for salvation has nothing to do with Jesus 'being' God, but ONLY that Jesus is God's Son. John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. Now before rebuttal happens, I want to say that I'm not taking away any deity that Jesus has; He is God's Son, so therefor is included in the deity of the Godhead body. I'm only pointing to God's own clarification both BEFORE and AFTER this verse of Thomas'. So before anyone starts claiming that in order to be saved, we need to accept Jesus as God, I suggest another read through of scripture to see the truth. Nothing is more clear than: 1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Paul and Steven - Thank you for bringing up your view on John 10. Quite honestly, I've never read it that way, and your points are very valid. You are right, Christ never states that there are other sheepfolds, but rather just other sheep. I love challenges in the Word! I had always put 2 and 2 together which seemed to really fit the reason why there are so many Christian religious sects out there. Here's my take on it: John 10: 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. Jesus is speaking to believers (they already hear His voice and follow Him) who belong to a certain sheepfold. And He tells them that there are other sheep (believers) that are not of this group of believers. Now if there are 'other believers' who hear Christ, then the saving has already been done, and I would ask, what is the point to bring them into this first sheepfold that He's talking to? They are already believers, right? Jesus is already their Shepherd. I believe He's specifically talking about the kingdom come. Christ is talking to one group of believers, while also referencing another group of believers. And then says "I must bring them". And in the kingdom, we'll finally be of one fold... because as you mentioned, man's 'interference' will no longer happen. But I like your interpretations as well! Great stuff.

I agree completely. There are problems. Rather than criticize and malign a group of people, I am choosing to allow Christ to use me, that through my well-doing, I may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men. With Christ, anything is possible. Yes... I sing songs to praise Jesus and God every time I'm in church, not to mention when I'm on my own or with my family. And I would agree that 'no' we don't test our 'dystviniks' enough. Jesus states how simple it is (1 Corinthians 12:3). We should definitely do this more, but I wouldn't say that it's 'never' done. I just saw someone test the 'dyestvinik' two weekends ago, so it does happen.

Hey Steven - I'm really hesitant to reply here on this site, but I wanted to address just a few things with you, and I guess I don't have the ability to just PM you yet. Maybe it's for the best so that others may read this as well. Firstly, I consider you a very zealous man for Jesus, and I admire you for that. You've done great work for the Lord over the years, and I pray God gives you the strength and opportunity to continue. Now I'd like to address a few things. You're right. There is only ONE faith, as scripture writes. But there are many sheepfolds within this faith (John 10). Christ understands this, and is perfectly OK with it. As long as those sheepfolds continue to hear His voice and follow Him. We were born into our sheepfold for a purpose. I don't believe God randomly places us in the world. Maybe this purpose is to help keep our sheepfold on track, focused on Christ. Don't get me wrong, I'm totally for helping others, everywhere, in every way, and I'm NOT stating that we should only help our own. I'm just trying to bring clarity to what many Molokans miss-communicate when they say "other faiths". I prefer to use the term "other sheepfolds" just like Jesus himself used it. Christ does say that He will bring us to be ONE sheepfold... and that will happen in the God's kingdom. But for now, there are many. I agree again. The commandments of God should be first. But that doesn't mean we just abandon all traditions. In fact Paul tells us to 'hold' to those traditions (2 Thessalonians 2:15). While I agree with you here, I've never noticed where, and I speak only for my experience at Milikoy church, where Milikoy has preached anything different. Is there a general mind-set of Molokans? I wasn't aware of this. I'm sure there are a group of people that believe some pretty strange things, but there are also Molokans that believe strictly in the teachings of Christ. Seems here the issue is with ONE man, not an entire sheepfold. I wouldn't abandon everything just because it came through a sinner named Maxim. God uses sinful, awful people to do His will: a murderer lead Israel out of Egypt and in the end still sinned and was denied entrance into the promise land, a murderer and persecutor of the church wrote most of the epistles in the N.T., and one of the greatest kings in the eye's of God was a murderer and adulterer. But God used them all. The Molokan order and traditions were passed to us from God through a sinful man. It doesn't make us special, or righteous, or favorites... we're no greater than anyone else, but we are different. Sure there are things that man has distorted and corrupted, so lets pray God blesses us with individuals who can work amongst us and help set things right with Jesus' help. But the general order of our worship services is quite Biblical. We sing songs and hymns (Colossians 3:16); we collectively set aside money for those in need (Matthew 25:40); we pray in one accord (Acts 1:14); our 'dyestviniks' reveal messages from God inline with how scripture dictates (1 Corinthians 14:29-33); we greet each other with a holy kiss (Romans 16:16); women are not allowed to give speeches or teach in church (1 Corinthians 14:34); we dress modestly by covering ourselves so as not to tempt one another in lust; our ministers are ordained, not by academia, but by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 3:7)... I could go on about the simplicity of our order of worship and how in tune with the Bible it is, but I'm sure you understand this having seen it yourself first hand. I understand your grief here. I defend time and time again your desire to help and serve others that are not Molokan. And I am truly sorry that there are Molokans who have criticized you for this. I hope that I stand as an example of Christ's love for you among the Molokan sheepfold. And finally, again... Maxim. I cannot answer or attempt to explain the many difficulties the S&L presents, but I am searching for the truth in humility. I am seeking God-fearing elders for their wisdom and help. I pray everyday that God allows me to find and accept His truth, and that my pride and sense of all-knowing doesn't allow me to make quick and hasty judgments and come to false conclusions. And everyday God is providing me with His wisdom and understanding. I pray everyone here heeds these words: 1 Peter 2:13-17 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. May we help stop those who seek to malign others because of their "freedom".