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Why Isn't The "New Israel" Packing Their Bags?

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What I don't get is that mgr's "New Israel" aren't in Israel

 

They aren't teaching their children Hebrew

 

They accept their mortal enemies, the muslims, yet reject EVERYONE else

 

This just doesn't add up

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What I don't get is that mgr's "New Israel" aren't in Israel

 

They aren't teaching their children Hebrew

 

They accept their mortal enemies, the muslims, yet reject EVERYONE else

 

This just doesn't add up

It's not suppose to add up, just go to Dsedas church every sunday so Babunya can brag about you to her friends. Don't anger Dseda by asking any stupid theological questions just bow all 4 directions saying spacee haspootz when the preacher nods. Now what could be the harm in all of that?

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Dear "new israel":

 

What are you going to do when God, as promised in His Word, returns the real Israel to their land as spelled out in Ezekiel 37

 

Oh and by the way in Ezekiel 37

 

And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land

 

Oh there's also

26 "Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore.

27 "My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

28 "The nations also will know that I, the LORD, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore."

 

So, "new israel", what are going to do when the real Israel shows up?

 

You don't really have the audacity to say that you are the people the prophet was speaking about in Ezekiel, do you?

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I think that what "new israel" fails to realize is that God made a covenant with old israel, and although old israel may not be living up to their end of the bargain, God is, and will live up to His!

 

From Romans ch 11

 

11: I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12: Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?

13: For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15: For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16: For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17: And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18: Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19: Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20: Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22: Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23: And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24: For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25: For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

26: And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28: As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29: For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30: For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32: For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33: O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34: For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller?

35: Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36: For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Edited by poopsqually

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Dear "new israel":

 

In your assertion that the molokans are the "new israel" you make God out to be a liar

 

In Deuteronomy chapter 7 God made some promises

 

You may want to read them

 

6 For you are a holy people, who belong to the LORD your God. Of all the people on earth, the LORD your God has chosen you to be his own special treasure.

7 "The LORD did not choose you and lavish his love on you because you were larger or greater than other nations, for you were the smallest of all nations!

8 It was simply because the LORD loves you, and because he was keeping the oath he had sworn to your ancestors. That is why the LORD rescued you with such amazing power from your slavery under Pharaoh in Egypt.

 

As to God lying, see the references below

 

This truth gives them the confidence of eternal life, which God promised them before the world began““and he cannot lie. (Titus 1:2 NLT)

 

So God has given us both his promise and his oath. These two things are unchangeable because it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, we who have fled to him for refuge can take new courage, for we can hold on to his promise with confidence. (Hebrews 6:18 NLT)

 

Please DO NOT respond with the same old "ecumencal 666, easter claus, a cross on every molokan church, you're bashing" ploy

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I know that not all molokans think they are the new israel" however to those who think they are, they very well may be right

 

Not that thay are the "new israel" but rather they are stiff necked, rebellious and of the Spirit of anti-Christ

 

"1 "Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming," Says the LORD of hosts.

2 "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He [is] like a refiner's fire And like launderer's soap.

3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness.

4 "Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem Will be pleasant to the LORD, As in the days of old, As in former years.

5 And I will come near you for judgment; I will be a swift witness Against sorcerers, Against adulterers, Against perjurers, Against those who exploit wage earners and widows and orphans, And against those who turn away an alien Because they do not fear Me," Says the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 3:1-5 NKJV)

 

Turning away "ne-nash" will result in judgement

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The bump in the road is just the simple fact that the life in this great country has made "new isreal" quite soft with so many of their die-hard maximisti/pahotniki, that they would only go for a pahot to a very large deserted island where they can live the life they yearn for, where we Group 1 people will not be around to use as punching bags and of course they would not want any of those terrible ne-nash (i hate that word). Or, they are waiting for that right prophet/prarok (with the right pedigree) to give them the green light to go to Mt Ararat and meet up with Maxim and all those Muslim slaves that will serve them day and night for a thousand years. Of course they would demand to have a guarantee from all the goverments that they would be protected from everyone around them that might want to harm them. All this may seem harsh to say, but it has happened before and will probably happen again. What have I said that is off base, then show me the error in my thoughts, please try not to be too harsh!

 

:78::127:

 

lastinline (I love the view from here)

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If there is a prophecy of Pahot and it is true, will you go or stay back?

 

Just think if your Great Dzeda or Dzeda didn't follow the Holy Spirit.

 

You should be thankful they did.

 

All of us should be praying if we did need to go somehwere else that God does reveal that to one of our prophets.

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Wasn't Ezekiel a prophet?

 

From the scripture you posted from Ezekiel and this last comment it seems to me that you are implying that certain scripture in The Bible only applies to certain people.

 

If that's not what you are thinking, please Expound on that thought. Gather your thoughts.

 

Isn't the Bible for everyone?

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Some molokans believe they are the "new israel"

Why wouldn't those "new israelites" be packing their bags in preparation?

 

 

I'm not a "new israelite", but my bags are packed, not that there is anything in them, and I'm ready for the journey, to meet Jesus in the heavens.

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Some molokans believe they are the "new israel"

Why wouldn't those "new israelites" be packing their bags in preparation?

 

New Isreal, Old Isreal... What matters is accepting Jesus Christ as your Saviour, repenting and wash your sins away with the precious blood of our Saviour. Be ready for his return to take us to our eternal home.

 

Shouldn't we always be prepared in season & out of season.

 

Are bags should always be packed ready to leave this Earth. Our citizenship is not here.

 

20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

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I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss "old israel/ new israel"

 

You adhere to a book compiled of writings by rudometkin that affirms the molokans are the "new israel" and will served by the muslims in the "millenial kingdom"

 

If you agree with the 2nd book, then you must be a "new israelite" otherwise you are a gentile

 

Which is it?

 

You cannot have it both ways

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If there is a prophecy of Pahot and it is true, will you go or stay back?

 

Just think if your Great Dzeda or Dzeda didn't follow the Holy Spirit.

 

You should be thankful they did.

 

All of us should be praying if we did need to go somehwere else that God does reveal that to one of our prophets.

 

 

How will you decide if it is true (what mechanism)?? Will you go without any hesitation?? There have been several so-called prophecies of the need for

 

pahot, but what really has become of them, not much and some have been complete failures (my opinion).

 

lastinline

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(Bringing It To The Top)

 

The "New Israel" is not here, they've gone to a better place.

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New Isreal, Old Isreal... What matters is accepting Jesus Christ as your Saviour, repenting and wash your sins away with the precious blood of our Saviour. Be ready for his return to take us to our eternal home.

 

stevepiv,

 

If you have accepted JESUS as your SAVIOR, repented and had your sins washed away with HIS precious blood, and are ready for HIS return to take you to your eternal home, how is it that you accept a "new" Jewish/Judean Messiah/Christ, namely, the man, maxim gavrilovitch rudometkin?

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New Isreal, Old Isreal... What matters is accepting Jesus Christ as your Saviour, repenting and wash your sins away with the precious blood of our Saviour. Be ready for his return to take us to our eternal home.

 

stevepiv ,

 

If you have accepted JESUS as your SAVIOR, repented and had your sins washed away with HIS precious blood, and are ready for HIS return to take you to your eternal home, how is it that you accept a "new" Jewish/Judean Messiah/Christ, namely, the man, maxim gavrilovitch rudometkin?

stevepiv, where did you go? This is an excellent question and I would also like to know your answer.

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New Isreal, Old Isreal... What matters is accepting Jesus Christ as your Saviour, repenting and wash your sins away with the precious blood of our Saviour. Be ready for his return to take us to our eternal home.

 

stevepiv ,

 

If you have accepted JESUS as your SAVIOR, repented and had your sins washed away with HIS precious blood, and are ready for HIS return to take you to your eternal home, how is it that you accept a "new" Jewish/Judean Messiah/Christ, namely, the man, maxim gavrilovitch rudometkin?

stevepiv, where did you go? This is an excellent question and I would also like to know your answer.

 

 

The New Isreal has left the building.

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What I don't get is that mgr's "New Israel" aren't in Israel

 

They aren't teaching their children Hebrew

 

They accept their mortal enemies, the muslims, yet reject EVERYONE else

 

This just doesn't add up

 

 

I thought this to be an interesting topic and again I would like to add a few comments. First the term "New Israel" can be used as a biblical expression. Terms such as Rapture, Trinity, Covenant of Grace, Covenant of works, Easter, Christmas, Lent, Prosperity theology, etc. are not found in the bible. These biblical expressions are usually associated with some biblical event or idea expressed in the bible. They then can be used by any expositor to express an idea without going through a whole littany of verses to express an idea.

 

I am not talking in any way of MGR's "New Israel".

 

It is an absurd idea to think of anyone being an Israelite and returning to the now nation of Israel. This nation, if you review your history was conceived and brought to fruition by "Zionists". The term " Israel" was used by the northern 10 tribes for their seperated nation, while the tribes of Benjamin, Judah and the Levites were the southern nation known as "Judah". Hence the name "Jews". The now nation of "Israel" is a secular nation and not a spiritual or theocratic state but one conceived by "Zionists" after World War 2, and supported by the USA and promised by Britain as a homeland for the displaced Jewry of Europe.

 

The term "New Israel" can be used as a synonym of the New Covenant church established by the sacrifice, death and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ. As has already been noted by another, Romans 11:17-24. When the people of Israel (Jews)(cultivated olive tree) rejected Jesus as their Messiah it opened up to the gentiles (branches from a wild olive tree) a grafting into the root (Abraham). The apostle Paul writes in Hebrews 10:9 of this, "Then He said,"Here I Am, I have come to do your will". He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all". Hebrews 8, the whole chapter is a good example of this also; Hebrews 8:13 states,"By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear". Also the parable of the vineyard in Mark 12: 1-9 is an example of how those who believe in Jesus Christ will inherit the status that Israel had before it rejected Christ. Paul also wrote in Galatians 3: 6-9,"Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Understand then, that those who believe are children of Abraham etc.

 

Then if we are believers in Jesus Christ we are also now the "New" children of Abraham. Which like all of his progeny are called Israel, but a "New Israel", not like the old covenant Israel which rejected the Messiah. I must say, their is more biblical text which can support this idea then can support Christmas celebrations or the Rapture as a biblical expression!

 

EGK

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What I don't get is that mgr's "New Israel" aren't in Israel

 

They aren't teaching their children Hebrew

 

They accept their mortal enemies, the muslims, yet reject EVERYONE else

 

This just doesn't add up

 

 

I thought this to be an interesting topic and again I would like to add a few comments. First the term "New Israel" can be used as a biblical expression. Terms such as Rapture, Trinity, Covenant of Grace, Covenant of works, Easter, Christmas, Lent, Prosperity theology, etc. are not found in the bible. These biblical expressions are usually associated with some biblical event or idea expressed in the bible. They then can be used by any expositor to express an idea without going through a whole littany of verses to express an idea.

 

I am not talking in any way of MGR's "New Israel".

 

It is an absurd idea to think of anyone being an Israelite and returning to the now nation of Israel. This nation, if you review your history was conceived and brought to fruition by "Zionists". The term " Israel" was used by the northern 10 tribes for their seperated nation, while the tribes of Benjamin, Judah and the Levites were the southern nation known as "Judah". Hence the name "Jews". The now nation of "Israel" is a secular nation and not a spiritual or theocratic state but one conceived by "Zionists" after World War 2, and supported by the USA and promised by Britain as a homeland for the displaced Jewry of Europe.

 

The term "New Israel" can be used as a synonym of the New Covenant church established by the sacrifice, death and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ. As has already been noted by another, Romans 11:17-24. When the people of Israel (Jews)(cultivated olive tree) rejected Jesus as their Messiah it opened up to the gentiles (branches from a wild olive tree) a grafting into the root (Abraham). The apostle Paul writes in Hebrews 10:9 of this, "Then He said,"Here I Am, I have come to do your will". He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all". Hebrews 8, the whole chapter is a good example of this also; Hebrews 8:13 states,"By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear". Also the parable of the vineyard in Mark 12: 1-9 is an example of how those who believe in Jesus Christ will inherit the status that Israel had before it rejected Christ. Paul also wrote in Galatians 3: 6-9,"Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Understand then, that those who believe are children of Abraham etc.

 

Then if we are believers in Jesus Christ we are also now the "New" children of Abraham. Which like all of his progeny are called Israel, but a "New Israel", not like the old covenant Israel which rejected the Messiah. I must say, their is more biblical text which can support this idea then can support Christmas celebrations or the Rapture as a biblical expression!

 

EGK

 

 

GREAT post!

 

 

thought this to be an interesting topic and again I would like to add a few comments. First the term "New Israel" can be used as a biblical expression. Terms such as Rapture, Trinity, Covenant of Grace, Covenant of works, Easter, Christmas, Lent, Prosperity theology, etc. are not found in the bible. These biblical expressions are usually associated with some biblical event or idea expressed in the bible. They then can be used by any expositor to express an idea without going through a whole littany of verses to express an idea.
All true. But just as you deemed it necessary to explain yourself in your next sentence. Anyone using that term would have to explain themselves. Hence, the problem you can only use it with fellow Molokans and most likely you would be greeted with a huh! Or, great to talk to a fellow mgr fan who knows the about the real TRUTH. That would gag Me!

 

 

The term " Israel" was used by the northern 10 tribes for their seperated nation, while the tribes of Benjamin, Judah and the Levites were the southern nation known as "Judah". Hence the name "Jews".

 

Can you give me an idea how the boundaries would be different if the present day Israel would be properly used.

 

 

Then if we are believers in Jesus Christ we are also now the "New" children of Abraham. Which like all of his progeny are called Israel, but a "New Israel", not like the old covenant Israel which rejected the Messiah. I must say, their is more biblical text which can support this idea then can support Christmas celebrations or the Rapture as a biblical expression!

 

 

I think that at this time, I would like to be perceived as a CHRISTIAN (Christ-like) who just so happens to be attending a Molokan church (at this time). With eyes on the PRIZE!!!

 

 

lastinline (I LOVE the view from here)

Edited by lastinline

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What I don't get is that mgr's "New Israel" aren't in Israel

 

They aren't teaching their children Hebrew

 

They accept their mortal enemies, the muslims, yet reject EVERYONE else

 

This just doesn't add up

 

 

I thought this to be an interesting topic and again I would like to add a few comments. First the term "New Israel" can be used as a biblical expression. Terms such as Rapture, Trinity, Covenant of Grace, Covenant of works, Easter, Christmas, Lent, Prosperity theology, etc. are not found in the bible. These biblical expressions are usually associated with some biblical event or idea expressed in the bible. They then can be used by any expositor to express an idea without going through a whole littany of verses to express an idea.

 

I am not talking in any way of MGR's "New Israel".

 

It is an absurd idea to think of anyone being an Israelite and returning to the now nation of Israel. This nation, if you review your history was conceived and brought to fruition by "Zionists". The term " Israel" was used by the northern 10 tribes for their seperated nation, while the tribes of Benjamin, Judah and the Levites were the southern nation known as "Judah". Hence the name "Jews". The now nation of "Israel" is a secular nation and not a spiritual or theocratic state but one conceived by "Zionists" after World War 2, and supported by the USA and promised by Britain as a homeland for the displaced Jewry of Europe.

 

The term "New Israel" can be used as a synonym of the New Covenant church established by the sacrifice, death and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ. As has already been noted by another, Romans 11:17-24. When the people of Israel (Jews)(cultivated olive tree) rejected Jesus as their Messiah it opened up to the gentiles (branches from a wild olive tree) a grafting into the root (Abraham). The apostle Paul writes in Hebrews 10:9 of this, "Then He said,"Here I Am, I have come to do your will". He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all". Hebrews 8, the whole chapter is a good example of this also; Hebrews 8:13 states,"By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear". Also the parable of the vineyard in Mark 12: 1-9 is an example of how those who believe in Jesus Christ will inherit the status that Israel had before it rejected Christ. Paul also wrote in Galatians 3: 6-9,"Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Understand then, that those who believe are children of Abraham etc.

 

Then if we are believers in Jesus Christ we are also now the "New" children of Abraham. Which like all of his progeny are called Israel, but a "New Israel", not like the old covenant Israel which rejected the Messiah. I must say, their is more biblical text which can support this idea then can support Christmas celebrations or the Rapture as a biblical expression!

 

EGK

 

 

GREAT post!

 

 

thought this to be an interesting topic and again I would like to add a few comments. First the term "New Israel" can be used as a biblical expression. Terms such as Rapture, Trinity, Covenant of Grace, Covenant of works, Easter, Christmas, Lent, Prosperity theology, etc. are not found in the bible. These biblical expressions are usually associated with some biblical event or idea expressed in the bible. They then can be used by any expositor to express an idea without going through a whole littany of verses to express an idea.
All true. But just as you deemed it necessary to explain yourself in your next sentence. Anyone using that term would have to explain themselves. Hence, the problem you can only use it with fellow Molokans and most likely you would be greeted with a huh! Or, great to talk to a fellow mgr fan who knows the about the real TRUTH. That would gag Me!

 

 

The term " Israel" was used by the northern 10 tribes for their seperated nation, while the tribes of Benjamin, Judah and the Levites were the southern nation known as "Judah". Hence the name "Jews".

 

Can you give me an idea how the boundaries would be different if the present day Israel would be properly used.

 

 

Then if we are believers in Jesus Christ we are also now the "New" children of Abraham. Which like all of his progeny are called Israel, but a "New Israel", not like the old covenant Israel which rejected the Messiah. I must say, their is more biblical text which can support this idea then can support Christmas celebrations or the Rapture as a biblical expression!
I think that at this time, I would like to be perceived as a CHRISTIAN (Christ-like) who just so happens to be attending a Molokan church (at this time). With eyes on the PRIZE!!!

 

 

lastinline (I LOVE the view from here)

Lastinline:

I wrote this from the perspective of word usage only. I am not and will not be a follower of MGR. I agree with you and I too would like to remain known as a "Christian" only. Can you please rewrite your question! I do not understand what boundaries you are talking of, national boundaries, Spiritual, ancient or present. What also do you mean by present day Israel, spiritual or national.

 

EGK

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What I don't get is that mgr's "New Israel" aren't in Israel

 

They aren't teaching their children Hebrew

 

They accept their mortal enemies, the muslims, yet reject EVERYONE else

 

This just doesn't add up

 

 

I thought this to be an interesting topic and again I would like to add a few comments. First the term "New Israel" can be used as a biblical expression. Terms such as Rapture, Trinity, Covenant of Grace, Covenant of works, Easter, Christmas, Lent, Prosperity theology, etc. are not found in the bible. These biblical expressions are usually associated with some biblical event or idea expressed in the bible. They then can be used by any expositor to express an idea without going through a whole littany of verses to express an idea.

 

I am not talking in any way of MGR's "New Israel".

 

It is an absurd idea to think of anyone being an Israelite and returning to the now nation of Israel. This nation, if you review your history was conceived and brought to fruition by "Zionists". The term " Israel" was used by the northern 10 tribes for their seperated nation, while the tribes of Benjamin, Judah and the Levites were the southern nation known as "Judah". Hence the name "Jews". The now nation of "Israel" is a secular nation and not a spiritual or theocratic state but one conceived by "Zionists" after World War 2, and supported by the USA and promised by Britain as a homeland for the displaced Jewry of Europe.

 

The term "New Israel" can be used as a synonym of the New Covenant church established by the sacrifice, death and resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ. As has already been noted by another, Romans 11:17-24. When the people of Israel (Jews)(cultivated olive tree) rejected Jesus as their Messiah it opened up to the gentiles (branches from a wild olive tree) a grafting into the root (Abraham). The apostle Paul writes in Hebrews 10:9 of this, "Then He said,"Here I Am, I have come to do your will". He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all". Hebrews 8, the whole chapter is a good example of this also; Hebrews 8:13 states,"By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear". Also the parable of the vineyard in Mark 12: 1-9 is an example of how those who believe in Jesus Christ will inherit the status that Israel had before it rejected Christ. Paul also wrote in Galatians 3: 6-9,"Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Understand then, that those who believe are children of Abraham etc.

 

Then if we are believers in Jesus Christ we are also now the "New" children of Abraham. Which like all of his progeny are called Israel, but a "New Israel", not like the old covenant Israel which rejected the Messiah. I must say, their is more biblical text which can support this idea then can support Christmas celebrations or the Rapture as a biblical expression!

 

EGK

 

 

GREAT post!

 

 

thought this to be an interesting topic and again I would like to add a few comments. First the term "New Israel" can be used as a biblical expression. Terms such as Rapture, Trinity, Covenant of Grace, Covenant of works, Easter, Christmas, Lent, Prosperity theology, etc. are not found in the bible. These biblical expressions are usually associated with some biblical event or idea expressed in the bible. They then can be used by any expositor to express an idea without going through a whole littany of verses to express an idea.
All true. But just as you deemed it necessary to explain yourself in your next sentence. Anyone using that term would have to explain themselves. Hence, the problem you can only use it with fellow Molokans and most likely you would be greeted with a huh! Or, great to talk to a fellow mgr fan who knows the about the real TRUTH. That would gag Me!

 

 

The term " Israel" was used by the northern 10 tribes for their seperated nation, while the tribes of Benjamin, Judah and the Levites were the southern nation known as "Judah". Hence the name "Jews".

 

Can you give me an idea how the boundaries would be different if the present day Israel would be properly used.

 

 

Then if we are believers in Jesus Christ we are also now the "New" children of Abraham. Which like all of his progeny are called Israel, but a "New Israel", not like the old covenant Israel which rejected the Messiah. I must say, their is more biblical text which can support this idea then can support Christmas celebrations or the Rapture as a biblical expression!
I think that at this time, I would like to be perceived as a CHRISTIAN (Christ-like) who just so happens to be attending a Molokan church (at this time). With eyes on the PRIZE!!!

 

 

lastinline (I LOVE the view from here)

Lastinline:

I wrote this from the perspective of word usage only. I am not and will not be a follower of MGR. I agree with you and I too would like to remain known as a "Christian" only. Can you please rewrite your question! I do not understand what boundaries you are talking of, national boundaries, Spiritual, ancient or present. What also do you mean by present day Israel, spiritual or national.

 

EGK

 

 

Many in the Christian community say that the establishment of Israel in 194_ was a fullfillment of Bible prophesy about the end times. Do you agree? Either way how would Israel and/or Judah look if this were true?

 

 

lastinline

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"10 So I spoke as he commanded me, and the wind entered the bodies, and they began to breathe. They all came to life and stood up on their feet ""a great army of them.

11 Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones represent the people of Israel. They are saying, ˜We have become old, dry bones""all hope is gone.`

12 Now give them this message from the Sovereign LORD: O my people, I will open your graves of exile and cause you to rise again. Then I will bring you back to the land of Israel.

13 When this happens, O my people, you will know that I am the LORD.

14 I will put my Spirit in you, and you will live and return home to your own land. Then you will know that I am the LORD. You will see that I have done everything just as I promised. I, the LORD, have spoken!"" (Ezekiel 37:10-14 NLT)

 

"21 And give them this message from the Sovereign LORD: I will gather the people of Israel from among the nations. I will bring them home to their own land from the places where they have been scattered.

22 I will unify them into one nation in the land. One king will rule them all; no longer will they be divided into two nations." (Ezekiel 37:21-22 NLT)

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"10 So I spoke as he commanded me, and the wind entered the bodies, and they began to breathe. They all came to life and stood up on their feet““a great army of them.

11 Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones represent the people of Israel. They are saying, ˜We have become old, dry bones““all hope is gone.`

12 Now give them this message from the Sovereign LORD: O my people, I will open your graves of exile and cause you to rise again. Then I will bring you back to the land of Israel.

13 When this happens, O my people, you will know that I am the LORD.

14 I will put my Spirit in you, and you will live and return home to your own land. Then you will know that I am the LORD. You will see that I have done everything just as I promised. I, the LORD, have spoken!"" (Ezekiel 37:10-14 NLT)

 

"21 And give them this message from the Sovereign LORD: I will gather the people of Israel from among the nations. I will bring them home to their own land from the places where they have been scattered.

22 I will unify them into one nation in the land. One king will rule them all; no longer will they be divided into two nations." (Ezekiel 37:21-22 NLT)

 

 

Great illustration of what I wrote! Thank you! Israel's hardening and rejection of Jesus Christ the Messiah opened up for us gentiles to be grafted onto the root of Abraham. In the future the two shall be as one nation when they accept Jesus Christ as their savior. Our soverign God will achieve His purpose for His Glory.

 

EGK

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Lastinline:

 

I am not really one to try to second guess God about Israel. Not being a student of prophecy I cannot tell you much. I do with all my heart believe that God is in charge. If a nation arises then it is by God's will. If this is the fullfillment of prophecy then again it is God's will. God is soverign and he will do what He will do. The nation of Israel of today is still not fully within the boundaries of ancient Israel. We can waste alot of time trying to figure this out but I feel this is God's business of which only He can take care of. I am only, like many others, trying and struggling to learn of God and to develop a right relationship with Him. I believe this forum is a great place to read and think and then to go and search the scriptures and through the Holy Spirit find truth. Sometimes here it is iron against iron, but that is what makes a knife sharp.

 

EGK

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Seeking's point, however, remains a fact. There is no "new Israel."

 

If we read carefully, listen attentively, and believe what the Apostle Paul is saying:

 

"For you are all sons of GOD through faith in CHRIST JESUS. For as many of you as were baptized in CHRIST have put on CHRIST. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in CHRIST JESUS. And if you are CHRIST'S, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:26-29)

 

"Therefore remember, that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by humans hands--- remember that you were at that time separate from CHRIST, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without GOD in the world. But now in CHRIST JESUS you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of CHRIST. For HE HIMSELF is our peace, WHO made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in HIS flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in HIMSELF HE might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to GOD through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity." (Ephesians 2:11-16)

 

---we understand that the "classification" of Jew and Gentile has been dissolved, and the making of "the two into one new man," a "new creation," is underway. The "new creation" or the "one new man" is the image of GOD in which the first man, Adam, who was neither Hebrew, Israelite, Jew, or Gentile, was created. This was one of the reasons the second man aka the Heavenly man aka the last/final Adam, THE LORD [GOD] HIMSELF from Heaven, WHO is neither Hebrew, Israelite, Jew or Gentile, came.......in the flesh.......in the line(age) of Abraham.......to fulfill HIS promise that all nations will be blessed by believing and receiving Abraham's SEED, THE SPECIAL DESCENDANT, WHOM the Apostle Paul tells us is our LORD AND SAVIOR CHRIST JESUS (Galatians 3:16), through WHOM the wall of hostility between these factions is dissolved, and through WHOM all things are being made new.

 

If Apostle Paul's statement in the above text teaches that those who have put on CHRIST JESUS are "new Hebrews, Israelites, or Jews," i.e., "new Israel," his subsequent statement, "There is neither Jew nor Greek...," would be contradictory and untrue.

 

So what is Apostle Paul saying here? What is the thrust and point of his statements regarding Jew and Gentile?

 

ANSWER: In CHRIST JESUS, THE LORD [GOD] HIMSELF from Heaven, aka the Heavenly man aka the second man aka the last/final Adam, there is NO DIFFERENCE between Jew and Gentile. In the eyes of their CREATOR.......THE WORD OF GOD WHO IS GOD.......both Jew and Gentile are HIS creatures created by HIM in HIS IMAGE for HIS glory just as the first man, Adam, who was neither Hebrew, Israelite, Jew or Gentile, was created for HIS glory.

 

In order for Apostle Paul to have made such a declaration, i.e., "in CHRIST JESUS there is neither Jew nor Greek..." he had to have had insight into WHO JESUS IS. And indeed he was given to know that JESUS is THE ETERNAL LOGOS OF GOD WHO IS GOD WHO created (and sustains) all things, and into WHOSE IMAGE HIS believers and followers are being conformed. (Romans 8:29)

 

In other words, the objective of being "Abraham's children" isn't the "new Hebrew, Israelite, or Jew," i.e., "new Israel," the objective is the "new man," the "new creature/creation," devoid of "separation" due to (fill in the blank) ___________. The goal is a merger, unification, unity, per the above prophecy through Ezekiel, presented by Seeking.

 

The purpose for the "separation" of a people (commonwealth of Israel) via the Law was to direct and keep the household of GOD from "defilement" as in "contamination" of pure and simple faith in THE ONE TRUE TRIUNE GOD. In CHRIST JESUS, the second man aka the Heavenly man aka the last/final Adam, THE LORD [GOD] HIMSELF from Heaven, there is no partiality in terms of ethnicity, genealogy, language, monetary or social status; only "faith working through love" as the Apostle Paul wrote (Galatians 5:6). Thus, when one "puts on CHRIST JESUS" one receives "new eyes," HIS eyes, which see.......the heart.

 

Wasn't it you, egk, who made the following statement:

 

The common denominator is, no matter what we label people, do we accept Jesus Christ as the propitiation for our sins and accept him as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (What Is A Molokan Woman?, Post 37)

 

Now give this some honest thought:

 

Does the adherence to, trust in, and preservation of the nickname molokan or new Israel promote unification, unity with members from all tribes, tongues, and nations worshiping THE CREATOR before HIS throne in Heaven as seen by the Apostle John (Revelation 5:9b,13), or does it promote separation?

 

You be the judge as in assessor, discerner, evaluator.

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Anonymous;

 

Thank You for your reply it was very well written and you bring out many good points, but it is not what I was talking about. I thought I made it very clear that I was commenting on biblical expressions that are used, or that my comments had anything to do with MGR. What I was trying to get across was the fact that the christian community uses different words that are not necessarily in the bible to describe different events, actions or beliefs. I gave the examples of Christmas, Rapture, Easter, etc. These terms are used throughout the christian community. The only seperation I mentioned was the seperation of the nation of Israel into two halves, Israel (northern 10 tribes) and Judah (Judah, Benjamin) which is a historical and biblical fact. If I want to use the term "New Israel" to describe the grafting on of the gentile believers into the family of God, is it any worse than using the pagan term of "Easter" to describe the event of Jesus Christ's death and ressurection? If I am not allowed to use the term "New Israel", than the same should hold true for all who use the terms Christmas, Rapture, Easter, etc. Does that sound fair?

 

What I find you doing here is going off track to promote your own agenda rather than a simple discussion of an idea. I am no "Judge, Assessor or evaluator. I only comment for the disscussion of ideas and to learn from the other participants. As for seeking truth, I have the highest regard for him and he has always treated me fairly and honestly, even if we do not always agree. I have made mistakes and have apologized for them when I felt I was wrong, but not this time.

 

EGK

 

Is it the initials that bother you, if so let's make EKG!

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