The Bible Is A "dead Letter"?

seeking_truth_1 · July 3, 2014

poor-vetta continues to refer to the Bible as a "dead letter"

Scripture say s the EXACT opposite

For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

July 4, 2014

The Word of God is not a physical book. Abraham, our father, did not have a Bible yet conversed personally with God on a daily basis.

anonymous · July 4, 2014

poor-vetta continues to refer to the Bible as a "dead letter" (Post #118)

Due purely to....SCRIPTURAL/spiritual illiteracy aka ignorance and lack of discernment (and too blinded by arrogance/pride to come to grips with and admit it.)

seeking_truth_1 · July 4, 2014

The Word of God is not a physical book. Abraham, our father, did not have a Bible yet conversed personally with God on a daily basis.

Why do you cite passages from the Bible if it's a "dead letter"?

John1717 · July 4, 2014

3 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

²Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men;

³for ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but in fleshy tablets of the heart.

⁴And such is the trust we have through Christ to Godward.

⁵Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as coming from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,

⁶who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament — not of the letter, but of the Spirit; for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.

⁷But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was to be done away with,

⁸how shall not the ministration of the Spirit be more glorious?

⁹For if the ministration of condemnation is glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory!

¹⁰For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

¹¹For if that which is done away with was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

¹²Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech—

¹³and not as Moses, who put a veil over his face, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which was being abolished.

¹⁴But their minds were blinded; for until this day the same veil remaineth untaken away in the reading of the old testament, which veil is done away with in Christ.

¹⁵But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their hearts.

¹⁶Nevertheless, when they shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

¹⁷Now the Lord is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

¹⁸But we all, with uncovered face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 3:1-18

It is a complete misunderstanding/twisting of scripture. This sort of thing happens when you read it with a veil over your eyes. The Bible is not the "dead letter" spoken of in scripture.

Edited July 4, 2014 by John1717

July 4, 2014

¹⁵But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their hearts.

¹⁶Nevertheless, when they shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

¹⁷Now the Lord is Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

¹⁸But we all, with uncovered face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The veil is taken away by the Spirit. As long as one believes that the scriptures are the Word of God, he is blind.

seeking_truth_1 · July 4, 2014

Blind and deceived

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16

The veil is taken away by the Spirit. As long as one believes that the scriptures are the Word of God, he is blind.

anonymous · July 4, 2014

Why do you cite passages from the Bible if it's a "dead letter"? (Post #4)

They never answer this question....

seeking_truth_1 · July 4, 2014

yup and happy 4th

July 4, 2014

Why do you cite passages from the Bible if it's a "dead letter"? (Post #4)

They never answer this question....

If a Bible book was thrown into a fire, what would happen? It woud slowly burn depending on how many chemicals they put into the paper to preserve it, then after a while it will turn into ash. The Word of God is living, not a literal/physical book.

The scriptures are profitable/useful for - doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, but are not salvation for a spiritual person. The living Word comes forth through the prophets, the written word is simply....useful.

2 Samuel 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spoke through me; his word was on my tongue

Rom 15:4 For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

July 4, 2014

In response to prijun todays post #6 "the veil is taken away by the Spirit. As long as one believes that the scriptures are the Word of God, he is blind.

Answer me this question, why is he blind?

anonymous · July 4, 2014

It is a complete misunderstanding/twisting of scripture. This sort of thing happens when you read it with a veil over your eyes. The Bible is not the "dead letter" spoken of in scripture. (Post #5)

Absolutely correct.

Their confusion derives primarily from their predisposition to a mindset of "all is spiritual" which lenses ultimately lead them to convoluted/distorted/twisted and obviously erroneous conclusions regarding the word(s) of GOD aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES. In this case, a total misunderstanding of "the letter of the law" which Apostle Paul explains in Romans and 2 Corinthians which prijun/fourvetta has convoluted/distorted/twisted into his "dead letter" mantra.

Here is a sampling from a former forum:

Christ came to save us from the dead letter of the scriptures. All the prophets and Christ Himself died according to it. The devil is the best misinterpreter of it. (Post #40, May 8, 2006, fourvetta)

anonymous · July 4, 2014

happy 4th (Post #9)

Ditto....

anonymous · July 4, 2014

Christ came to save us from the dead letter of the scriptures. All the prophets and Christ Himself died according to it. The devil is the best misinterpreter of it. (Post #40, May 8, 2006, fourvetta)

And this was a response by a CHRISTian to the above post:

One cannot help but lament fourvetta and his twisted brethren. The only thing CHRISTians can do for them is.......pray.......pray for their release from the falsehoods which keep them in bondage from knowing, SCRIPTURALLY, thus, spiritually, THE TRUTH and HIS freedom.

JESUS did not come to save mankind from “the dead letter of the scriptures,” nor did “all the prophets died according to it.”

The phrase: “dead letter of the scriptures” is not found in THE HOLY SCRIPTURES. It is one of many of mgr's and his faithful followers' perversions of SCRIPTURE.

References to "letter," i.e., “the letter kills,” in THE HOLY SCRIPTURES are made to---the Law.

One of the reasons JESUS came from Heaven to earth is to fulfill the Law and the Prophets.

JESUS' death did not do away with the Law.

JESUS HIMSELF clarified this when HE said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, 'till Heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whosoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.” (Matthew 5:17-20)

Which commandments is JESUS referring to in the above passages?

ANSWER: The Decalogue, the Ten “Commandments” or Ten “Words” of the covenant between THE LORD.......GOD, and HIS creatures......man(kind), the first four of which describe how HIS people are to relate to GOD ("This is the first and great commandment: 'You shall love THE LORD your GOD with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'"), while the remainder describe how GOD'S people are to relate to each other (“And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'")

"On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:40)

Now, if fourvetta would simply stop and think about his statement for a moment, and ask himself:

If JESUS came to save mankind from "the dead letter of scriptures,” why would HE refer to and warn against breaking the commandments, which commandments (the Law) are found in THE HOLY SCRIPTURES?

If the “letter of the scriptures is dead,” why would JESUS, referring to THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, say to satan:

“But HE answered and said, 'It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of GOD.'” (Matthew 4:4)

“JESUS said to him, 'It is written again, 'You shall not tempt THE LORD your GOD.' (Matthew 4:7)

If the 'letter of the scriptures is dead,' why would Apostle Paul, referring to THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, say:

"As it is written, 'There is none righteous, no, not one...'" (Romans 3:10)

Apostle Paul wrote regarding the letter of the law:

“Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of CHRIST, that you may be married to another---to HIM WHO was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to GOD. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of THE SPIRIT and not in the oldness of the letter (of the law).

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law said, ?You shall not covet.? But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

“Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of GOD according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank GOD---through JESUS CHRIST our LORD!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of GOD, but with the flesh the law of sin.” (Romans 7:1-25)

Apostle John wrote regarding JESUS:

“And THE WORD became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld HIS glory, the glory as of the only begotten of THE FATHER, full of grace and truth.

John bore witness of HIM and cried out, saying, 'This was HE of WHOM I said, 'HE WHO comes after me is preferred before me, for HE was before me.'

And of HIS fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through JESUS CHRIST.” (John 1:14-17)

The Law, as well as the Prophets, pointed forward to.......JESUS.

In chapter 8 of Romans Apostle Paul explains, with GOD'S grace and truth which came through JESUS CHRIST as the centerpiece of his treatise, the “balance” between the law and THE SPIRIT which by no means are mutually exclusive.

We know from reading THE HOLY SCRIPTURES that not a one person save JESUS CHRIST was/is able to keep the law completely/perfectly. And because of HIS obedience and fulfillment of the Law (which Law is holy, spiritual, just, and good), completely/perfectly:

“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in CHRIST JESUS, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to THE SPIRIT. For the law of THE SPIRIT of life in CHRIST JESUS has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, GOD did by sending HIS OWN SON in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin. HE condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to THE SPIRIT.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to THE SPIRIT, the things of THE SPIRIT. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against GOD; for it is not subject to the law of GOD, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please GOD.

But you are not in the flesh but in THE SPIRIT, if indeed THE SPIRIT OF GOD dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is not HIS. And if CHRIST is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but THE SPIRIT is life because of righteousness*. But if THE SPIRIT of HIM WHO raised JESUS from the dead dwells in you, HE WHO raised CHRIST from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through HIS SPIRIT WHO dwells in you.” (Romans 8:1-11)

*WHOSE righteousness? JESUS' righteousness --- the robe HIS faithful bride is clothed in.

And in 2 Corinthians, Apostle Paul again writes regarding the letter of the Law:

“And we have such trust through CHRIST toward GOD. Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from GOD, WHO also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter (of the Law) but of THE SPIRIT (of the Law), for the letter (of the Law) kills, but THE SPIRIT (of the Law) gives life.” (2 Corinthians 3:4-6)

Why and how does the letter of the Law --- kill?

The answer is found in Romans 3:10-20,

“As it is written: 'There is none righteous, no, not one; there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after GOD. They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no, not one. Their throat is an open tomb; with their tongues they have practiced deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips; whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; destruction and misery are in their ways; and the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of GOD before their eyes.'

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before GOD. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in HIS sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

And in Romans 7:8,

"For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it (the commandment) killed me."

And how are true believers forgiven, justified, and made righteous in the sight of GOD apart from the law (which condemned/killed them because they could not keep it completely/perfectly)?

"But now the righteousness of GOD apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of GOD, through faith in JESUS CHRIST, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD, being justified freely by HIS grace through the redemption that is in CHRIST JESUS, WHOM GOD set forth as a propitiation by HIS blood, through faith, to demonstrate HIS righteousness, because in HIS forbearance GOD had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time HIS righteousness, that HE might be just and THE JUSTIFIER of the one who has faith in JESUS." (Romans 3:21-26)

The law brought knowledge of sin and simultaneously condemned because not a one person was/is able to keep the law completely/perfectly.......except.......JESUS, THE ONE WHO came to earth from Heaven, THE WORD OF GOD WHO is.......IMMANUEL.......GOD with us.

THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, THE HOLY SPIRIT residing within those who are in CHRIST JESUS, empowers them to keep/obey the law, the greatest commandment of GOD, in THE SPIRIT in which the law was given.......LOVE.

“But when the Pharisees heard that HE had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. Then one of them, a lawyer, asked HIM a question, testing HIM, and saying, 'Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

JESUS said to him, 'You shall love THE LORD your GOD with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:34-40)

JESUS, THE LOGOS, THE WORD OF GOD WHO is GOD, WHO is LOVE, in [HIS] SPIRIT and in [HIS] TRUTH, in complete/perfect harmony with HIMSELF, was quoting HIS own words, the 'inspired' (GOD-breathed) words found in Deuteronomy 6:4 and Leviticus 19.

fourvetta,

Are JESUS' spoken words written in Matthew 22:34-40 "spirit and life"?

Where is the greatest commandment(s) found which JESUS spoke?

ANSWER: THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, the inspired (GOD-breathed) WORD(S) of GOD, WHO is SPIRIT, THE SPIRIT of TRUTH, THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE GIVER of LIFE, WHOSE WORDS are "spirit and life."

THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, the inspired (GOD-breathed) WORD(S) of GOD, WHO is SPIRIT, THE SPIRIT of TRUTH, THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE GIVER of LIFE WHO gave the law to Moses who documented/recorded/wrote it for your beloved hero, for you, for your brethren, and for all of mankind to obey in order that they may have.......life.

The law reflects GOD'S HOLY character and HIS purposes for created beings. GOD commands the behavior that pleases HIM and forbids what offends HIM. JESUS summarizes the moral law in the two great commandments, to love GOD and to love your neighbor (Matthew 22:37-40). HE says that on these two depends all the Old Testament moral instructions. The moral teaching of JESUS and HIS apostles is the law deepened and reapplied to new circumstances---life in THE KINGDOM OF GOD, where THE SAVIOR reigns, and in the post-Pentecost era of THE SPIRIT, when GOD'S people are called to live sanctified lives in the midst of a hostile world (John 17:6-19).

The fallen human heart hates GOD'S law, both because it is a law and because it comes from GOD. Those who know JESUS, however, find not only that they love the law and want to keep it, both to please GOD and out of gratitude for grace (Romans 7:18-22; 12:1, 2), but also that THE HOLY SPIRIT leads them into a degree of obedience to the law that was never theirs before (Romans 7:6; 8:4-6; Hebrews 10:16).

anonymous · July 4, 2014

The living Word comes forth through the prophets.... (Post #10)

So when a so-called “prophet” within your congregation comes out and speaks “living words,” they are the words of GOD?

July 4, 2014

And yet, Abraham obeyed God, having no scripture at that time and received the promise of God.

4"I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed;

5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."

anonymous · July 4, 2014

The scriptures are profitable/useful for - doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, but are not salvation for a spiritual person. The living Word comes forth through the prophets, the written word is simply....useful. (Post #10)

Something that is "dead" is "void of life/lifeless/not living." How can "the dead letters of the scriptures" be "useful" if they are "dead/void of life/lifeless/not living"?

anonymous · July 4, 2014

If a Bible book was thrown into a fire, what would happen? It woud slowly burn depending on how many chemicals they put into the paper to preserve it, then after a while it will turn into ash. The Word of God is living, not a literal/physical book. (Post #10)

And if prijun/fouvetta never laid eyes on or heard the word(s) of GOD aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, would he have ever known of salvation?

P.S. "Bible book" is a redundancy --- "Bible" is "book."

July 4, 2014

And if you never laid eyes on or heard words from THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, would you have ever known of salvation?

Rom 1: ²⁰For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

anonymous · July 5, 2014

And yet, Abraham obeyed God, having no scripture at that time and received the promise of God.

4"I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed;

5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws." (Post #16)

In the beginning, THE LORD GOD instructed Adam orally and it became part of the oral tradition. The progenitors (Adam and Eve) of the human race passed this knowledge to their offspring, and they, in turn, to their offspring, etc. At a point in history/time, THE LORD GOD deemed it necessary for HIS word(s) to be documented/recorded/written resulting in the codified Ten Words of GOD aka The Ten Commandments given to Moses. Moses said to the people:

“Now this is the commandment, the statutes and the judgments which THE LORD your GOD has commanded me to teach you, that you might do them in the land where you are going over to possess it, so that you and your son and your grandson might fear THE LORD your GOD, to keep all HIS statutes and HIS commandments which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged.” (Deuteronomy 6:1-2)

Although THE LORD GOD continued to speak through HIS prophets, HE instructed them to “write down” what HE had spoken to them. The writings of the prophets were to be preserved. They were placed in the tabernacle and then later in the temple. They were to be preserved for future generations.

Examples:

“Then THE LORD said to me, “Take for yourself a large tablet and write on it in ordinary letters: Swift is the booty, speedy is the prey.” (Isaiah 8:1)

In another place THE LORD said, “Go now, write it on a tablet for them, inscribe it on a scroll, that for the days to come it may be an everlasting witness.” (Isaiah 30:8)

Jeremiah was told by THE LORD GOD to write, “Take again another scroll and write on it all the former words that were on the first scroll which Jehoiakim the king of Judah burned.” (Jeremiah 36:28)

THE LORD said of Jeremiah’s writings: “I will bring upon that land all the things I have spoken against it, all that are written in this book and prophesied by Jeremiah against all the nations.” (Jeremiah 25:13)

D-a-n-i-e-l wrote down a dream that THE LORD GOD had given him: “In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, D-a-n-i-e-l had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying on his bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream.” (D-a-n-i-e-l 7:1)

We also find that the prophet Habakkuk was instructed by THE LORD GOD to write: “Then the LORD answered me and said: Write the vision; make it plain on tablets, so that a runner may read it.” (Habakkuk 2:2)

A reading of 2 Kings 22 through 2 Kings 23:1-30 gives a good picture of what happens to humanity without HIS documented/recorded/written word(s) aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES. A modern example is prijun/fourvetta and his spiritually challenged/deprived brethren.

The problem prijun/fourvetta and his maximist brethren continue to encounter with respect to THE HOLY SCRIPTURES is that they insist on "reinventing the wheel," spiritually speaking. Like their arrogant high-minded beloved hero/leader/mentor/shepherd, they want to blaze "new" trails (aka "new" revelations), ones that have never been heard of before, blah, blah, blah....which is another reason THE HOLY SCRIPTURES are "dead/lifeless" to them. To their SCRIPTURALLY illiterate thus spiritually darkened minds, the activity of jumping, quaking, shaking (not stirred), and uttering something, is "GOD speaking"---the so-called "living words" of GOD prijun/fourvetta and his brethren have in mind, and which they perceive as "prophecy"---which is another topic altogether....

July 5, 2014

I apologize, clearly, you are much more educated then myself. A wash cloth is also dead matter, yet it is useful for drying yourself after using the wash basin. Would you have known to dry your self without the cloth? Your logic is as you say... twisted. Moses also did not have a Bible, yet spoke with God personally.

1 Pet 1:21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

July 5, 2014

Your above post exposes your ignorance to what were saying, there is no reason for me to care to explain it to you any more clearly. Maybe Jesus will explain to you more clearly in your futuristic 3rd Temple in fairy tale Jerusalem land.

anonymous · July 5, 2014

THE GOOD NEWS is that despite the “clamor” prijun/fouvetta and his brethren make, THE LORD GOD of HIS WORD, in HIS grace and mercy for HIS creatures, continues to awaken individuals within the molokan community (including some die-hard maximisti who, in turn, will prayerfully share their testimony...JESUS...with family & friends who are still in bondage) from their [spiritual] stupor, drawing them to HIMSELF and out of and away from the heretical abomination prevalent in that community.

CHRISTians continue to pray for them and rejoice in our LORD and SAVIOR'S words:

“Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in Heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.” (Luke 15:7)

July 5, 2014

Although THE LORD GOD continued to speak through HIS prophets, HE instructed them to “write down” what HE had spoken to them. The writings of the prophets were to be preserved. They were placed in the tabernacle and then later in the temple. They were to be preserved for future generations.

So they were placed in the Temple as God??

I believe it is you who believes that the last prophet was John the Baptist?? No more forth telling?

anonymous · July 5, 2014

So they were placed in the Temple as God??

I believe it is you who believes that the last prophet was John the Baptist?? No more forth telling? (Post 24)

Steel soldered to rivers equal magnitudes in shades of colorful beaches contrary to aquamarine forests....

It's all spiritual....

anonymous · July 5, 2014

I apologize, clearly, you are much more educated then myself. A wash cloth is also dead matter, yet it is useful for drying yourself after using the wash basin. Would you have known to dry your self without the cloth? Your logic is as you say... twisted. Moses also did not have a Bible, yet spoke with God personally. (Post #21)

Massive whereabouts and exploding volcanic jellyfish account for the desert's high plateaus....

It's all spiritual....

anonymous · July 5, 2014

Your above post exposes your ignorance to what were saying, there is no reason for me to care to explain it to you any more clearly. Maybe Jesus will explain to you more clearly in your futuristic 3rd Temple in fairy tale Jerusalem land. (Post #22)

Moonbeams directly join with salamanders as an expression of starry nights and glowing embers.....

It's all spiritual....

anonymous · July 5, 2014

Rom 1: ²⁰For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (Post #19)

dhs,

Did you learn of JESUS' death from observing creation?

July 5, 2014

I apologize, clearly, you are much more educated then myself. A wash cloth is also dead matter, yet it is useful for drying yourself after using the wash basin. Would you have known to dry your self without the cloth? Your logic is as you say... twisted. Moses also did not have a Bible, yet spoke with God personally.

1 Pet 1:21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Spiritual Atheists believe they are speaking to God by reading their Bible.

seeking_truth_1 · July 5, 2014

Classic... Doesn't the cult of molokanism vainly repeat the 23rd Psalm as a "prayer" when God SPECIFICALLY said DO NOT do THAT

7 "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8 "Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.

Spiritual Atheists believe they are speaking to God by reading their Bible.

anonymous · July 5, 2014

Spiritual Atheists believe they are speaking to God by reading their Bible. (Post #29)

On the Cliffs of Dover specific to incoming electronic inertia developing baggage is weightlifting and twinkles....

It's all spiritual....

July 5, 2014

Classic... Doesn't the cult of molokanism vainly repeat the 23rd Psalm as a "prayer" when God SPECIFICALLY said DO NOT do THAT

7 "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

8 "Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.

And in that same chapter,

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. ’

Albeit, our prayers are also, spiritual.

seeking_truth_1 · July 6, 2014

Wait a minute... You "pray" a "prayer" from a "dead book" and the "prayers" are "spiritual"?

Are you an idiot?

By the way, from the Greek, Raca,,, "empty headed", "lacking any sense"

Yes, I mean idiot...

John1717 · July 7, 2014

Spiritual Atheists believe they are speaking to God by reading their Bible.

Do you even realize how much the term "spiritual atheist" - makes absolutely no sense? Are you aware of what an atheist is?

Anywho, reading of God's word in the Bible is more like having Him speak to you.

What is your measuring stick to know whether someone is actually a "prophet" of God rather than a false prophet? Would God contradict Himself.....meaning would He provide a "new" revelation that would contradict what has been reaveled in the Bible? Do you accept the writings of Joseph Smith and Muhammad as the "words of God"?

seeking_truth_1 · July 7, 2014

It's all "spiritual" so you make it up as you go along

anonymous · July 7, 2014

Do you even realize how much the term "spiritual atheist" - makes absolutely no sense? Are you aware of what an atheist is? (Post #34)

It's a convoluted/distorted/perverted "maximist-style" double-entendre---which makes perfect sense to them because their "all is spiritual" mindset is convinced that everything proceeding out of the largest orifice on their face is "spiritual" (духовный)---which means the comeback will make just about as much sense as the original statement---which means reasoning with the individual becomes a lesson in futility.

With this particular individual however, there is also a mental health issue component compounding the problem. It's been suggested that he seek professional help but unfortunately for him, his arrogance precludes the man from doing so.

Despite the odds, CHRISTians are hopeful and continue to pray for these [psychologically and spiritually sick] individuals....

John1717 · July 7, 2014

which means reasoning with the individual becomes a lesson in futility.

With this particular individual however, there is also a mental health issue component compounding the problem. It's been suggested that he seek professional help but unfortunately for him, his arrogance precludes the man from doing so.

Despite the odds, CHRISTians are hopeful and continue to pray for these [psychologically and spiritually sick] individuals....

Was not aware of that. You are right in regards to futility. I know that many read these threads...and this cockamamie jargon might seem right to those within the cult.

The mental issue may be because of the "spirits" he has opened himself up to. I pray he accepts the true gospel message and is cured by the Great Physician.

seeking_truth_1 · July 7, 2014

Nor was I. I'm in agreement with John1717 regarding the "spirits" having taken over causing the blindness

anonymous · July 7, 2014

....pray he accepts the true gospel message and is cured by the Great Physician. (Post #37)

That's the prayer....

July 8, 2014

And if you never laid eyes on or heard words from THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, would you have ever known of salvation?

Rom 1: ²⁰For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Of course, as this would apply to 99.44% of all human race since Adam and Eve who have not heard the gospel, because God has provided conscience in their situation, as the Apostle writes of judgment accordingly for the uneducated. One way or another God has always provided, otherwise why create people without a chance of salvation, and then judge them for their sins?

Rom 2:¹⁴(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. ¹⁵They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

John1717 · July 8, 2014

And if you never laid eyes on or heard words from THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, would you have ever known of salvation?

Rom 1: ²⁰For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Of course, as this would apply to 99.44% of all human race since Adam and Eve who have not heard the gospel, because God has provided conscience in their situation, as the Apostle writes of judgment accordingly for the uneducated. One way or another God has always provided, otherwise why create people without a chance of salvation, and then judge them for their sins?

Rom 2:¹⁴(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. ¹⁵They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

eh eh BS.

Adam and Eve knew of a promised coming Messiah. They knew that the killing of of an animal only "covered" their sins. Jesus also went down to "Abraham's bosom" to proclaim His victory.

Yes everyone has a God given conscience. But that does not mean that they have the knowledge of how to have their sins forgiven, or that Christ died fo their sins. That is why it is commanded to go unto all the earth and preach the gospel.

Edited July 8, 2014 by John1717

seeking_truth_1 · July 8, 2014

Yet God has made everything beautiful for its own time. He has planted eternity in the human heart, but even so, people cannot see the whole scope of God's work from beginning to end.

July 8, 2014

You would have to go to the deepest part of the amazon jungles to do that.

20 It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else’s foundation.

21 Rather, as it is written:“Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.”

22 This is why I have often been hindered from coming to you.

23 But now that there is no more place for me to work in these regions, and since I have been longing for many years to visit you,

John1717 · July 8, 2014

¹⁹in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. ²⁰And so I have made it my aim to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build on another man’s foundation, ²¹but as it is written: “To whom He was not announced, they shall see; And those who have not heard shall understand.”²²For this reason I also have been much hindered from coming to you. ²³But now no longer having a place in these parts, and having a great desire these many years to come to you, ²⁴whenever I journey to Spain, I shall come to you.For I hope to see you on my journey, and to be helped on my way there by you, if first I may enjoy your company for a while. ²⁵But now I am going to Jerusalem to minister to the saints. ²⁶For it pleased those from Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor among the saints who are in Jerusalem. ²⁷It pleased them indeed, and they are their debtors. For if the Gentiles have been partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister to them in material things. ²⁸Therefore, when I have performed this and have sealed to them this fruit, I shall go by way of you to Spain. ²⁹But I know that when I come to you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospelof Christ. Romans 15:19-29

Apostle Pauls ambition was to take the gospel to where it has never been heard before. He was the apostle to the gentiles.

You are taking this out of context to now mean you can only preach the gospel where no one has ever heard it before....and that must only be in the deepest part of the amazon jungles. Although people have and now continue to go to those areas....there are people just down my block who have not heard the gospel. What about you? You have been given the gospel on this site. Will you repent?

seeking_truth_1 · July 9, 2014

I still find it odd that the cult of molokanism cites a "prayer" from a "dead book"

That makes NO SENSE unless it truly is mental illness then all of the other blither has an explanation

July 9, 2014

And if you never laid eyes on or heard words from THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, would you have ever known of salvation?

Rom 1: ²⁰For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Of course, as this would apply to 99.44% of all human race since Adam and Eve who have not heard the gospel, because God has provided conscience in their situation, as the Apostle writes of judgment accordingly for the uneducated. One way or another God has always provided, otherwise why create people without a chance of salvation, and then judge them for their sins?

Rom 2:¹⁴(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. ¹⁵They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Jesus also went down to "Abraham's bosom" to proclaim His victory.

To whom did Jesus preach? Maybe to those who lived according to Rom 2:14-15, maybe before Noah, since God did conclude a covenant with Noah? So at tthat time they accepted him as Messiah.

I Pet 3:¹⁹After being made alive,he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— ²⁰to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

And maybe many others who lived after Noad according to their conscience? Yes, the judgment is according to conduct.

July 9, 2014

You are taking this out of context to now mean you can only preach the gospel where no one has ever heard it before....and that must only be in the deepest part of the amazon jungles. Although people have and now continue to go to those areas....there are people just down my block who have not heard the gospel. What about you? You have been given the gospel on this site. Will you repent?

au contraire. The origin of the Gospel that is taught, is man.

11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel.

12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

16 was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;

17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.

19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.

20 In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!

John1717 · July 9, 2014

You are taking this out of context to now mean you can only preach the gospel where no one has ever heard it before....and that must only be in the deepest part of the amazon jungles. Although people have and now continue to go to those areas....there are people just down my block who have not heard the gospel. What about you? You have been given the gospel on this site. Will you repent?

au contraire. The origin of the Gospel that is taught, is man.

11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel.

12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

16 was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;

17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.

19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.

20 In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!

This is Paul proving his apostleship. Context..... :bigemo_harabe_net-24: please.?

The only thing that saves is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not the man made gospel of the sun book and your extra twisted new age spiritual take on it all.

Since you like to mish-mosh and leave out scripture to twist it to your nonsense (like the devil)...I will post more of it for proper understanding.

Galatians 1: 5-24

⁶I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, ⁷which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. ⁸But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. ⁹As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

¹⁰For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.¹¹But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. ¹²For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

¹³For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. ¹⁴And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

¹⁵But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, ¹⁶to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, ¹⁷nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.¹⁸Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter,^[a] and remained with him fifteen days. ¹⁹But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. ²⁰(Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.)

²¹Afterward I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. ²²And I was unknown by face to the churches of Judea which were in Christ. ²³But they were hearing only, “He who formerly persecuted us now preaches the faith which he once tried to destroy.” ²⁴And they glorified God in me.

John1717 · July 9, 2014

Curious also why "prijun" bothers quoting scripture from a "dead letter" book? It is as useful as a washcloth correct?

anonymous · July 9, 2014

Curious also why "prijun" bothers quoting scripture from a "dead letter" book? It is as useful as a washcloth correct? (Post #49)

Makes about as much sense as one does the other. Summed up in one word---wacky.

Which again, is one of the reasons dialoguing with these individuals becomes a lesson in futility.

And while CHRISTians are hopeful that perhaps one day these individuals will finally "get it" and come to THE LIGHT, they are not naive to the grievous fact/truth that some never will....

July 9, 2014

Amazing, I come back to find more twisting and distortion of what has been said. You all really don't have a clue do you?

Let us take for example the Petrine gospels, both of which are considered by the majority of respected Biblical scholars to be pseudepigraphical, meaning not actually written by Peter himself, but by someone else using Peters name. Scripture writes that God cannot lie, for it is not in His nature. Therefore, why would God "allow" a lie to be printed in His book as His word?

We again rely on the Spirit to lead us to every truth, if the Bible cannot even tell us who really wrote it's own books, how can you rely on it soley as the literal word of God?

July 10, 2014

You are taking this out of context to now mean you can only preach the gospel where no one has ever heard it before....and that must only be in the deepest part of the amazon jungles. Although people have and now continue to go to those areas....there are people just down my block who have not heard the gospel. What about you? You have been given the gospel on this site. Will you repent?

au contraire. The origin of the Gospel that is taught, is man.

11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel.

12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

16 was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;

17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.

19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.

20 In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!

This is Paul proving his apostleship. Context..... please.?

The only thing that saves is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not the man made gospel of the sun book and your extra twisted new age spiritual take on it all.

So if you paste a couple of verses before and after the scriptures I posted makes it "in context" ?

What was the Gospel preached to the Israelite's in the wilderness, prior to Christ?

1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.

3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger,‘They shall never enter my rest.’

And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world.

seeking_truth_1 · July 10, 2014

The thread is "the Bible is a "dead letter""

According to certain adherents to the cult, the Bible is a "dead book" but yet it's regularly quote

The cult members posts have NOTHING to do with that claim

BY the way that's EXACTLY what context means. If you cite a single verse out of context, you can make the Bible say anything

That's what the cult does to justify is wicked and unBiblical practices

July 10, 2014

BY the way that's EXACTLY what context means. If you cite a single verse out of context, you can make the Bible say anything

You are worried about a single verse. Lets zoom into every word.

A man lives by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

God loves the man who trembles at His Every Word.

July 10, 2014

The scribes and Pharasees knew every letter and every word of the scriptures. And yet Christ tells them;

37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen,

38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent.

39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

41 I do not receive glory from people.

42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you.

The Jews never had the Word of God within them. What Word was He talking about?

seeking_truth_1 · July 10, 2014

A perfect example of the cult choosing to ignore CONTEXT

From the CONTEXT of what I said, you left off "That's what the cult does to justify is wicked and unBiblical practices"

What was said is if YOU cite a SINGLE verse OUT OF CONTEXT you can make the Bible say anything AND YOU do it to "justify" your cult's wicked practices

It's clear from the context what I was saying BUT if you leave out the the second sentence, you cay try to "inject" another meaning

That's not how it works if you are trying to extract the authors meaning and intent from ANYTHING including the Bible

seeking_truth_1 · July 10, 2014

Cult playbook page 1... When you cannot address the topic at hand, attempt to change the subject OR introduce spurious rhetoric into the thread

John1717 · July 10, 2014

Cult playbook page 1... When you cannot address the topic at hand, attempt to change the subject OR introduce spurious rhetoric into the thread

Ugh. Anonymous is right. Futile

I had to laugh at this though:

So if you paste a couple of verses before and after the scriptures I posted makes it "in context" ?

Yes....yes it does. Also posting the verses you just leave out completely also helps.

Then he goes on to snippet again to explain the reason why you do that.

seeking_truth_1 · July 10, 2014

Futile, yes, to a degree

There are those who are reading this seeing the "nuttiness" of the cult revealed yet again and hopefully causing them to compare the cult nonsense to what the Bible teaches

In addition, the "nuts" will be held to account when they stand ALONE before the Lord on that day and have explain their wicked behavior apart from a Saving knowledge of Jesus.

They will be reminded of each time they denied the Truth as found in Scripture. Each and every time will be another nail in their coffin.

Handbag door knob the spiritual adulterers while the clown with a spiritual beard dances silently.

6 ¶ Seek the LORD while He may be found, Call upon Him while He is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts; Let him return to the LORD, And He will have mercy on him; And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.
8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 "For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, And do not return there, But water the earth, And make it bring forth and bud, That it may give seed to the sower And bread to the eater,
11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

anonymous · July 11, 2014

prijun,

Which "dead letters of the scriptures" are "useful" concerning the PHYSICAL "love and insemination" aka sexual intercourse and the PHYSICAL "passing of seed" aka emission of semen which occurs during sexual intercourse --- between a man and a woman who are not lawfully wedded --- as in the following:

I. dhs' preface to the text from his 1971 work copy:

“In the originals of Maxim G Rudometkin this section is found in the tenth (10) book, the fifthteenth (15) chapter, beginning at the eighth (8) verse.”

"Oh, the unspeakable messages and secrets of my God, which today, it is impossible for me to write out for I fear, least I might anger Satan incarnate, which is to say Peter and Johnny, who are both sons of Satan, and all the other many like unto them who always aid them in their evil spirit of untruth, through whom I was informed upon to the authorities of the darkness of this age and here I suffer reproach, in mockery, for the truth and now, how long I suffer and am punished because of them innocently. They think I will submit to them and their beastly faith and bow down to their idols, as Stenya and Varya, who, because of their own adultery, went down on their knees before these sons of everlasting perdition and thus they gave joy to the god of my enemies, against whom I war because of all of you, my friends, who are the New Israel, members of Mount Zion.

And, for which case I ask you, my principal friend, Emilian, that you would, with haste again, erect what is needful to be lifted up in place of the fallen, she who will serve as mother of Zion, queen to all my new home. Let the daughter of the widow Klubnikin, Anna, await me, the father of Zion and the king of all my house, as an undefiled virgin in place of her sister, the half-dead Maria, with whom I will anew, a second time, light a fire in Zion and will, through her hands, with my spirit, bless all of you. Let, upon her, the words of the Scripture be fulfilled that the last shall be first and the first last. For I also, in this generation, am last, but in Zion, I am the premier king and prophet, for which reason I suffer here in prison confinement and will, for this reason, inherit the world and she will sit on my throne in everlasting inheritance and our children, together with her, will reign for the whole 1000 years and we, as heirs of God, will never taste of death but rather be renewed every 100 years and because of our shared holy bed, our faces will shine in beauty like the light of the morning star or like the color of an apple tree against the green of the trees of the forest and even more so shall she and I shine amongst all of you, the sons and daughters of Zion.

And so, see that you quickly sew her a raiment of clean linen, mixed with gold around the neck and hands, but the crown of gold I'll make myself for her. And so, also, always, you must feed her with the best food and give her to drink of the water of life, from the spring of my fountain, until all her members are filled with the aroma of the paradise-like perfume and if the mother of Anna, will not allow this to be or she herself [Anna, the daughter] resists being MY ETERNAL WIFE and HOLY CONCUBINE, then I, in my day, will carry out upon them both a judgment by hot fire, changing their homes into ashes. And their seed I will cut off from under heaven like I did Stenya and Varya and both their accursed husbands and children, or as I did with Avdotsia, the widow of Zahario, who I caused to be burned alive, and also the home of Fetisif, because of her, will be totally destroyed by me. For, every blasphemy against the Spirit is never forgivable, for you all saw how her own grandfather, in the spirit, gave her right into my hands and how the prophet Emilian, in the spirit, married us publicly, to be wife and queen, and after this, she willingly followed after me as A REAL REGULAR WIFE and not just for a time or LIKE A CONCUBINE, as you all now think happened, now that I'm gone. But God is not mocked and the holy spirit will not be shamed by this marriage. What God joins, let no man put asunder. Only the enemy of man, the Devil, does those things. And it was him that separated them both from me through the caresses of hands and the KISSING about the face, at will.

And they were the first to act like a bitch with dogs, sneaking around with lifted skirts in the dark, in secret, near my own paradise, and you, Emilian and Fetice, to this day, don't see what a role the Devil played through those adulteresses accursed of God. It would appear that you both, my good friends, on that night, were sound asleep with your own wives or did you both forget how I, your Lord, on my last night, brought them both to you and lay them down beside you, right in front of me, on your beds. You did not keep my instruction to you, that they both were my wives eternally, for which cause I am continually full of wrath against you, day and night, and cry over my separation from them although I knew that without me, Satan would soon take them for wives, for himself. For even while I was there, they tried to pull them away from me but were unable to for I always held them tightly in my hands, like the fruit of the vine of my new paradise-like vineyard or like fruitful olives under the brilliant heavens, where always I shone upon them like the true light of the sun and the light of the star of my heavenly spirit, in which they always appeared with me upon my bed, in my bedroom, like holy seed for the marriage of the new paradise. But today, I see them asleep, without me, upon the bed of Satan.

Oh Fetice and Emilian, am I not your Lord who asked you not to allow any unbelievers to ever enter the gathering in my house so that, secretly, the serpent could not enter my paradise to bring them to submission and to seduce them like Eve in the garden? But you both failed! Oh, you unfortunate cattle and fornicating animals, like pigs and rats. Now you both, for the sake of this devilish THRUSTING and KISSING, agreed to exchange the Spirit of Truth for a lie, or to say, God for the Devil. Did you not yourselves prophesy that the truth did reign in us both forever and that God is within it, our kingdom on earth and in heaven?

Or did you think, for a minute, I would separate from you in a good way? Am I not your principal Lord, by this spirit, that then, in both you and me, abided? I went alone to this death-producing eternal cross of confinements, in which I ceaselessly am patient, like a fearless heavenly warrior who came down from the throne of the king with a sword of the unfeigned sayings of God, in which I'll not spare any head. Even if Satan himself gave me the whole universe in exchange for you, I, the servant of the Lord, would not be satisfied.

Or, if all the kings' daughters were given to me as wives, in exchange for you, I'd not accept, for it is better to be alone with God than with countless sons and daughters of the Devil. For I know that out of one righteous man the whole earth can be populated and that the tribes of the wicked will all perish from the earth, no matter who they are, for in my coming new day, they'll all burn like brush in the fire, but I, the jubilee king, together with all my faithful home, will reign on the earth forever and my land will include the entire earth, upon which will descent, everywhere, a visible peace and blessedness, Amen. And it will continue thus for the whole 1000 years and after that for all eternity."

II. dhs' preface to the text from his 1971 work copy:

In Russian:
В подлиных рукописах Максима Г Рудомёткина это часть находиться в десятом /10/ книжке, между семнадцатей /17/ и восемнадцатой /18/ повестей.

In English:
In the originals of M.G. Rudometkin this section is found in the tenth (10) book, between the seventeenth (17) and eighteenth (18) chapters.

"Command: A directive of the Spirit of Christ from the highest level, which is to say, THE GREAT GOD WHOSE NAME IS ENFAEL SAVAGHANA YOULYA (mgr), KING OF ALL THE EARTH (mgr) to be read and acknowledged by [all those who believe in him], first of all, Emilian (a "prophet"), and Anna, the window of Garasamitch (Klubnikin), then her daughter (egk's sister, the daughter of Garasim and Anna Klubnikin, egk's parents), MY NEWLY BETROTHED, WITH WHOM I WAS JOINED ETERNALLY IN MARRIAGE UNION, 'PHYSICALLY,' in which she is to always be called MY BELOVED WIFE, Felhelya, only be careful not to compromise or defile yourself with anyone but me, your king of the jubilee, for I AM YOUR ETERNAL HUSBAND and jealous in my wrath for any adultery amongst MY NEW WIVES. Anyone who would touch ANY OF YOU will die, no matter who he is. Amen.

And so, after reading this spirit-inspired commandment, my friend, Emilian Enfaelovich, you are visibly to give her (mgr's NEWLY BETROTHED who is egk's sister, the daughter of Garasim and Anna Klubnikin, egk's parents), from me, a verbal blessing with the laying on of your prophet hands on her head, with words of the giving of her title.

'Be this YOUNG VIRGIN, BETROTHED by name, Felhelya, with the rank of jubilee queen and always kept undefiled for your HOLY HUSBAND, named Felhiela (mgr), with the rank of jubilee king, and may you keep your HOLY BEDCHAMBER intact for the entire 1000 years, FOR YOUR SEED IS HOLY, from which shall be born all kings and priests, servants of God on high.'

Then you, Emilian, must at this time, give her a big kiss for me and lead her right to your own home, like a BRIDE FOR ME CHOSEN, where I WILL CONSUMMATE OUR MARRIAGE or, to say, BECOME MARRIED with the crown of the blessing of God from on high and then you, Emilian, ARE TO PLACE US TOGETHER IN OUR BED SO THAT WE CAN, BEFORE YOU, COMPLETE THIS SECRET, together with the joyful tunes of my songs, BEING 'UNASHAMED' BEFORE THE WHOLE CONGREGATION and THE OTHER WOMEN AND VIRGINS BELONGING TO ME will also stand there IN MY BEDCHAMBER, singing new songs about MY MARRIAGE TO HER, every day for 1000 years.

Contents of this new song: 'I am your NEW WIFE, Felhelya, I am the mother and queen of Zion. I AM TO REPLACE MARIA, MY SISTER (another of egk's sisters, the daughter of Garasim and Anna Klubnikin, egk's parents). I was born for you, my beloved, to be your ETERNAL WIFE of which Anna, my mother, did not know a thing about until today. THROUGH THIS MARRIAGE TO YOU, my HOLY KING (mgr), I wish to wipe away all the sins of my father, Garasimova, and gain resurrection for all my dead relatives, to the third and fourth generation, and allow my mother to live in your home, with me, who you shall personally save from wrath. For truly, she is completely at fault before you, as are my brothers who all defiled themselves in like manner. Be not wrathful with the for they are my kindred and a part of the kingdom of New Israel. Let this, my song, always be a testimony before my God whom, my KING Felhiela (mgr), always served without trespassing his NEW LAW OF LOVE and law of judgment for the approaching new age and kingdom of peace on earth for 1000 years.

And let OUR HOLY BEDLIFE eternally reign in this 'PHYSICAL' LOVE and 'INSEMINATION' (sexual intercourse) by us both, without end, in the labor of the spirit, and audible songs BEFORE ALL THOSE STANDING IN OUR BEDROOM.' Amen. Glory to our God, Amen.

Then, this song, to be sung after OUR LOVEMAKING (sexual intercourse) is finished: 'Amen.' We thank you, Lord God Almighty, that you joined us so that WE COULD ENJOY OURSELVES IN BED and FOR THE 'PHYSICAL' PASSING OF SEED (sexual intercourse) for the fulfillment, in us, of THIS GREAT DEED WHICH YOU GAVE TO ADAM AND EVE TO DO IN THE PARADISE, saying to them both, 'grow, multiply and fulfill the earth' (procreation through sexual intercourse).

And today, Lord, you are faithful in all your words and none have been changed from the beginning, neither in heaven nor on earth. And we, your servants, WILLINGLY FULFILL THIS LABOR OF OUR MARRIAGE. WE BOTH ASK YOU TO GRANT US CONCEPTION FOR THE BIRTH OF A HOLY RACE which will inherit the earth as your sons and daughters, FOR I AND MY WIFE ARE BOTH GODS OF ALL THE EARTH, Amen, verily.”

III. dhs' preface to the text from his 1971 work copy:

“This section from the originals of Maxim G. Rudometkim starts at the beginning of that which is called the forteenth (14) book, third (3) chapter in the 1928 edition of the Spirit and Life. And continues until the end of the bk 14 manuscrip. (Contains chap 3, 4, 2:I-XVII, 7:1-3 3/4, & 27)”

“This is about all of my newly acquired wives who I will write about here, in detail, about their union and separation from me. To begin with, I’ll mention how they were first joined to me and how, at that time, we were publicly joined in wedlock, by God himself and the Spirit of His Christ, together with the blessing given by laying on of hands of all their parents and also the prophetic word of the witness and activity of the spirit through Emilian, the prophet, who publicly joined me to them by the union of our willing HOT LOVE, producing an eternal, unseparable, holy new covenant, like a key and its lock, and the immortal life in both our loins, for 1000 years.

For this reason, we, in His holy union, all ate and drank together and almost all slept in the same bed together and verily, in this holy matrimony, we all KISSED AND THRUST TOGETHER, producing great joy, as the Spirit inspired us to do and as is befitting any everlasting wedlock. But the key was not put into the lock, for the time had not yet come for that. God had not yet told us to do that, just as in Adam and Eve's case in the Paradise. This was done by the serpent, but not by God, so I stood strong and did not allow their will, before the proper time, to taste of the forbidden fruit and did not give them the key. But I waited for all of that as God, by the spirit, had told me to do. To this then are many witnesses, almost all of my chosen people who believe in me.

And they were all completely happy with these, my spiritual marriages, and willing to wait for intercourse with me, as I was their holy husband. The first of these, my beloved wives, was Stenya and Varya and the rest like unto them, who now in my absence, inspired by Satan himself and without taking account of our eternal holy new marriage, almost all of them, suddenly, because of their defiled lustfulness, have lifted their adulterous tails to the dogs like a bitch in heat. And all of them took themselves husbands who are not their lawful husbands but adulterous sons of Satan in bodily form, for which reason in these god-despised mismatches, they now indulge in adultery, like unclean beasts or defiled swine, and have become demon-possessed, by God's will. For this reason, any children born of them are cursed or like the bastard children of prostitutes and all of these unlawful children are consigned, by God, to everlasting death without chance of resurrection, as it is written, without respite. And anyone who, today, will beat them, God will make holy for it.

It would have been better for all of you, my new wives, to have never known this, my new path, which is eternal for all who walk it rightly. For it is true, not false, just like an arrow, straight to Zion, destined. But you did not desire it but chose, instead, to go the way of adultery, like cattle with bulls or you with your cursed husbands. You have forgotten me, your God-annointed husband and king. For you all know very well what my spirit always clearly told you that you would not seek another husband besides me and not to give your virginity or holy Eve-like chastity to any deceiving serpent but only to me, your Adam. For WHAT YOU HAD SECRETED IN YOU WAS MEANT ONLY FOR ME, your God-given husband. For this reason, I am filled with wrath for you, for you have all defiled yourselves and joined yourselves with cursed demons everywhere and I can have patience with you no longer.

Only because of your need for salvation will I change my curse upon you but your husbands and children will eternally be cursed of me, and them, I will wipe off the face of the earth. But you, I'll again receive eternally, as wives, so as not to gratify this evil spirit of Satan, or to say, Simon Rudakoff and Maxim Plenin and Vasili Sikitin, for I remember that you were my eternal wives and concubines, like King Solomon within his worldwide kingdom.

Although it is very repugnant and defiling this, your devilish evil, in which you, in my absence, allowed demons to be delivered into you, but I will clean all of this with the sword and fire, off of your outer man, but inwardly I will apply my own salve and HEAL YOU DOWN THERE. Then, in the wrath of my spirit, for your defilement of me, through your demon-possessed adultery, I'll give you all different names…not good names but perverted and even foul ones.

First, Stenkoo, I will name Idessa, in that she, for the longest time, in my absence, was compelled to lie entirely [under the demon] for the sake of his demonic adultery. And likewise, Varookhoo, I will name Akhvatoosya, in that she, in her own desire, because of her own adultery, stretched herself fully naked, completely for the demon. Leksookhoo, I will name Pikhtoosya, in that she disobeyed me and found for herself, for the sake of powerful adultery, right to the very bottom, the pushy demon. Doonookhoo, I will name Nakhmanisa, in that she, without my permission, the swine, stretched her ass willfully, right onto the demon. Vasookhoo, I will name Akhtanisa, in that she, in carnal adultery, fell in love, willfully, directly with the demon. Manookhoo, I will name Zhamelyoosya, in that she, willfully, adulterously, allowed [into her self] the hot demon. Groonyookhoo, I will name Pertagoosya, in that she, not of her own initiative, with the love of her flogged ass lifted [it] up for adultery for a fat demon. All of you equally, bypassed me and strongly defiled yourselves in this eternal demonic adultery.

For this reason, you are not worthy to receive, with me, the primary glory in Israel and to be called with the holy seven names, according to the count of the seven spirits of God, which had been appointed to you by me before the creation of the world. Verily, these names will be given to my other new wives who are undefiled virgins, but you, I appoint now to only please me in physical union, or to more directly say, with such pumping of your much-used, broken woman's stomachs.

The children I will begat through you will be everlastingly blessed, as David did to his wife when she returned home to him. But if any of you will not submit to me or have my children, then those, right now, together with their demon-husbands, I'll kill and I'll do the same thing with all those blasphemers and adulterers against this true spirit and those who hate me, the king of the world, like Simon and Levin, because of their sister, Denya, or like King David, because of his wife, Michal, or maybe even more harshly, as in David's 100th Psalm: 'For these adulterers, with others' wives, always have judgment of death placed on them by God Himself.' For as the holy Apostle Paul said, 'a [married] woman is tied to her living husband, by the law, until his death and only then can she be joined to another' [nor is she permitted to commit adultery with other men].

And now, because of you and what you've done, I must AGAIN, a second time, choose out seven new wives, all chosen, undefiled virgins, which, for eternity, will not know the bed of another husband but me. And so I, their new husband, King [their youlia], will place them over you like mistresses and queens according to the Psalm in which David sings about presenting a queen on your right, in luxurious raiment, and they will lead forth the king of virgins unto her, unto the house of the king and under the crown of the glory of all Israel....and immortality for all of us for 1000 years. And so I, in my day, with the aid of the holy spirit and the will of my God, will [immutably, unchangeably] give all seven of these, my new wives, eternal holy names according to the title of their new heavenly names, [equally] by the number of the seven spirits of God that eternally abide upon me."

Does the "spirit" within you tell you that the above written words are from/of THE GOD of THE HOLY SCRIPTURES?

seeking_truth_1 · July 11, 2014

Chicken spindles are a sign the ecumenical toaster oven is set to boil not freeze

July 11, 2014

How did that piece of junk video get posted on this site. Has no relevance to molokans

seeking_truth_1 · July 11, 2014

I posted it.

It's a satirical look at prigun, prigun2, prigun3 et al's double talk and babble

Frankly the "priguns" almost do a better job

John1717 · July 12, 2014

"Prijun" likes to make God's word say what he thinks it should say rather than the other way around. All the "prijuns" and BS "biblestudent" have made a god in their own mind. Stop trying to push the LORD off His throne...it won't work.

seeking_truth_1 · July 12, 2014

So why do you "pray prayers" from a "dead book"?

If you are implying the Bible is flawed, why bother getting down, jumping around and repeating "prayers"?

July 13, 2014

The answer is simple, to quote from Timothy as you have done many times...

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.

The scriptures are beneficial/useful. By the way, when this letter was written, there was no New Testament... uh oh...

Therefore we use the scriptures because they are useful, our other books are also put into this same category.

seeking_truth_1 · July 13, 2014

They are "useful" AND they are "dead"

Makes no sense to me

Its like saying yes and no at the same time

July 13, 2014

I concur. The scriptures are beneficial and useful, but they are not in themselves salvation for us.

Unbelief in the Holy Spirit stems from, holding the scriptures in higher regard from the fountain of the Word of God, the Prophets themselves.

July 13, 2014

Frankly, this would not be the first time that something "does not make sense" to you. Seems to be a very common occurrence on this anti Molokan (Postoyan/Jumper) forum.

seeking_truth_1 · July 13, 2014

The Bible for the cult of molokanism is "useful" AND "dead"

How can something be good AND bad? Pure and POISON?

It's obvious you cannot see the lunacy and logical fallacy of the statement

July 13, 2014

To prijun, to say that the Bible is useful and dead is completely insane. You might as well not pray the Lords prayer anymore because it is dead words. You might as well say that God is useful to use but He is dead. Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are useful to us but according to your verbiage the Bible is dead.

Throughout the Bible all of Gods' Word is speaking about God the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. Yes they are words. God breathed words. And without the Holy Spirit of God living inside of you to make your spirit hear these words and make them ALIVE to you, you are just as DEAD as they are . YOU BETTER BE CAREFUL, BECAUSE YOU ARE DIGGING YOUR OWN GRAVE FOR ETERNITY. If you continue to believe this way you will NEVER enter the eternal Kingdom of God and enjoy His presence, because it is all dead words to you. I am praying for YOU prijun.

seeking_truth_1 · July 13, 2014

The members of the cult of molokanism posses this aire of self-righteous lunacy.

Facts do not deter them from their blind dedication and support of the cult

How can that be a SAVING faith if you haven't even compared it to the Bible?

July 13, 2014

You want to argue the facts? The facts are clear, if you were to take the Bible and place it in the fire, it would burn up into ash. Therefore the book is dead, unless of course if you believe The Lord would create a miracle and the book would magically float out of the fire and back into your hands. However I also want to be clear that this is not meant to disrespect the scriptures nor the writers therein, our faith is based on the writings of the old and new testaments. We simply do not agree with the majority of Christendom that scriptures are fully sufficient for all of our needs. We agree WITH scripture that it in itself is USEFUL. It is dead to those who solely rely on it and not continue seeking further truths.

July 13, 2014

The members of the cult of molokanism posses this aire of self-righteous lunacy.

Facts do not deter them from their blind dedication and support of the cult

How can that be a SAVING faith if you haven't even compared it to the Bible?

Which Bible?

July 13, 2014

To prijun, to say that the Bible is useful and dead is completely insane. You might as well not pray the Lords prayer anymore because it is dead words. You might as well say that God is useful to use but He is dead. Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are useful to us but according to your verbiage the Bible is dead.

Throughout the Bible all of Gods' Word is speaking about God the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. Yes they are words. God breathed words. And without the Holy Spirit of God living inside of you to make your spirit hear these words and make them ALIVE to you, you are just as DEAD as they are . YOU BETTER BE CAREFUL, BECAUSE YOU ARE DIGGING YOUR OWN GRAVE FOR ETERNITY. If you continue to believe this way you will NEVER enter the eternal Kingdom of God and enjoy His presence, because it is all dead words to you. I am praying for YOU prijun.

What troubles me is you just compared the Bible to God.

To quote your own words "You might as well say that God is useful to use but He is dead. Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are useful to us but according to your verbiage the Bible is dead."

Salvation is not in books or letters, but by the Spirit of God in new fiery toungues. God is the living word that resides in each believer, not in a book.

The Bible Is A "dead Letter"?

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