John 1

[seeking_truth_1 0]

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:1-14 NKJV)

 

The Word is God and the Word became flesh too

 

So, who is the Word?

[anakainosis 0]

1   In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2  He was in the beginning with God.

3  All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

4  In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

5   And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6  There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7  This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.

8  He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9  That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

10  He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

11  He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.

12  But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

13  who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14  And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:1-14 NKJV)

 

The Word is God and the Word became flesh too

 

So, who is the Word?

J-E-S-U-S

 

 

 

B)

[seeking_truth_1 0]

But wait...

 

Does it say the same thing in the the King James or Septuagint versions of the Bible?

[anakainosis 0]

Yes, I would say that the King James version will clearly have the same message; but, the Septuagint being just the Old Testament would not have the gospel of John included in its text.

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

OK, but disciple (and others) call into question the King James Version of the Bible and it's accuracy because of the "ecumenical 666" influence

 

Which version of the Bible is on the front table?

 

Does it say the same thing?

[seeking_truth_1 0]

A couple other things to add to the mix

 

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24

 

"Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. Acts 20:28 NKJV

[anakainosis 0]

OK, but disciple (and others) call into question the King James Version of the Bible and it's accuracy because of the "ecumenical 666" influence

 

Which version of the Bible is on the front table?

 

Does it say the same thing?

If that is so, then they should also call into question the Russian version of the Bible. The Russian Bible was put together by the Great Whore of Babylon, the Greek/Russian Orthodox Church. You can’t get anymore 666 than that!

 

I believe the Russian version will convey the same message as our modern more ‘literal’ English translations like the ESV, NASB and probably NKJV.

 

Basically, these individuals believe that man has corrupted the church by the third century and for the most part everything that has come out of the Great Whore is not fit for consumption.

 

If these individuals would follow through and be consistent in there distorted view, then they shouldn’t even have the Bible on their tables at all. All the major versions were compiled through the Great Whore Church.

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

So the Russian Bible found on the front tables of all molokan churches was compiled by the "ecumenical 666" church they accuse everyone else of being a part of...

 

But back to the original issue regarding John 1 and the other versus I cited

 

Even the Russian Bible says the same thing regarding The Word, God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit etc...

 

So how is it that things are so far removed from the basic truths about Jesus?

[anakainosis 0]

So the Russian Bible found on the front tables of all molokan churches was compiled by the "ecumenical 666" church they accuse everyone else of being a part of...

 

But back to the original issue regarding John 1 and the other versus I cited

 

Even the Russian Bible says the same thing regarding The Word, God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit etc...

 

So how is it that things are so far removed from the basic truths about Jesus?

So how is it that things are so far removed from the basic truths about Jesus?-Seek

regarding the divinity of Christ, you and I believe the same thing as far as the Russian Orthodox Church believes, our Molokan ancestors believed in the divinity of Christ.

 

At some point during this century that belief changed because the ignorance of scripture and doctrine; because of Pax Americana most Molokans are lazy to study; they rely on what papa said. They’re no different than most secular Christian churches here in America regarding bible study and biblical Christianity.

 

There are people who are fighting to keep the Ten Commandments in place at court houses, yet most of them could not recite the ten from memory. Likewise, in a way the Molokans are full of zeal for predki, isolation and no pork eat’in, but do not know who the biblical Christ is.

 

We are lazy.

 

[Disciple 0]

OK, but disciple (and others) call into question the King James Version of the Bible and it's accuracy because of the "ecumenical 666" influence

Whoah there kiddo ... I'd like to see a quote where I called into question truth of The Authorized Version of The Bible. You had better go easy on the knee-jerking or you might pull something.

[ligonier 0]

So the Russian Bible found on the front tables of all molokan churches was compiled by the "ecumenical 666" church they accuse everyone else of being a part of...

 

But back to the original issue regarding John 1 and the other versus I cited

 

Even the Russian Bible says the same thing regarding The Word, God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit etc...

 

So how is it that things are so far removed from the basic truths about Jesus?

Because speakers (besedniki), and others, in our Molokan church take those words and spin them.

 

A speaker in one of our Molokan churches said (paraphrasing from memory) " God spoke, and the Word was created." This is how the "Word" is explained. It is not explained that in the beginning, the Word was already there. But that the Word was created first, before all other things. So how then could the Word be of the same being as God the Father.

[fountain-drink 0]

1 John 5: 7-10

 

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

 

10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son

 

 

This passage states that there are 3 in heaven, God, Jesus and the HOly Ghost. God gave us his Son. The three are seperate and not 1. They are as one, but are three.

[steadfast 0]

1 John 5: 7-10

 

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

  8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

  9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

 

  10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son

 

 

This passage states that there are 3 in heaven, God, Jesus and the HOly Ghost.  God gave us his Son.  The three are seperate and not 1.  They are as one, but are three.

TK1 you say, "They are as one" in which verse is it worded that way?

TK1 you say, "three are seperate and not one" in which verse is it worded that way?

[seeking_truth_1 0]

OK, but disciple (and others) call into question the King James Version of the Bible and it's accuracy because of the "ecumenical 666" influence

Whoah there kiddo ... I'd like to see a quote where I called into question truth of The Authorized Version of The Bible. You had better go easy on the knee-jerking or you might pull something.

Wouldn't that be Dz. Kiddo...?

 

I do have the vest you know

[fountain-drink 0]

1 John 5: 7-10

 

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

   8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

   9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

 

   10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son

 

 

This passage states that there are 3 in heaven, God, Jesus and the HOly Ghost.  God gave us his Son.  The three are seperate and not 1.  They are as one, but are three.

TK1 you say, "They are as one" in which verse is it worded that way?

TK1 you say, "three are seperate and not one" in which verse is it worded that way?

Where does it say differently? Where does it say Jesus is God?

[Nick Shubin 0]

Where does it say differently? Where does it say Jesus is God?

1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

Tk1, you must first come to a conclusion as to who the word is, then you will know the answer.

[fountain-drink 0]

Where does it say differently?  Where does it say Jesus is God?

1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

Tk1, you must first come to a conclusion as to who the word is, then you will know the answer.

Hi Poopsqually,

I know the answer, The Word (Jesus) was with God. I believe its The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, from what I quoted from 1 John 5. There are 3. God did not send himself to earth, he sent his Son. God did not leave Heaven unmaned to come to earth to save mankind. He sent his Son. HEY...nice seeing you yesterday even though it was for a very short split second!!

[steadfast 0]

1 John 5: 7-10

 

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

   8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

   9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

 

   10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son

 

 

This passage states that there are 3 in heaven, God, Jesus and the HOly Ghost.  God gave us his Son.  The three are seperate and not 1.  They are as one, but are three.

TK1 you say, "They are as one" in which verse is it worded that way?

TK1 you say, "three are seperate and not one" in which verse is it worded that way?

Where does it say differently? Where does it say Jesus is God?

John 10:30 I and the Father are one." NIV

 

John 12:45 For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. TLB

 

John 8:23 But he (Jesus) continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins."

 

I guess the Bible just isn't good enough for you!

 

___________________________________________________

 

One Lord, One Faith, One Book. Eph. 4:5-Heb. 10.7 ;)

[anakainosis 0]

Where does it say differently?  Where does it say Jesus is God?

1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

Tk1, you must first come to a conclusion as to who the word is, then you will know the answer.

Hi Poopsqually,

I know the answer, The Word (Jesus) was with God. I believe its The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, from what I quoted from 1 John 5. There are 3. God did not send himself to earth, he sent his Son. God did not leave Heaven unmaned to come to earth to save mankind. He sent his Son. HEY...nice seeing you yesterday even though it was for a very short split second!!

Tk, the way John had written in the opening verses of his gospel he was clear that there was separateness between God the Father and the Word.

 

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." (John 1:1-2, ESV)

 

The Word was ‘with’ God= proof that they were separate.

The Word ‘was’ God= proof that what God is; the Word is, God.

He (The Word) was ‘with’ God= again proof that they were separate.

 

Conclusion:

 

Two separate ‘persons’ yet one ‘being’ that is God.

 

 

[Disciple 0]

OK, but disciple (and others) call into question the King James Version of the Bible and it's accuracy because of the "ecumenical 666" influence

Whoah there kiddo ... I'd like to see a quote where I called into question truth of The Authorized Version of The Bible. You had better go easy on the knee-jerking or you might pull something.

Wouldn't that be Dz. Kiddo...?

I do have the vest you know

No comment? Hmm...

[Prophet 0]

1 John 5: 7-10

 

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

   8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

   9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

 

   10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son

 

 

This passage states that there are 3 in heaven, God, Jesus and the HOly Ghost.  God gave us his Son.  The three are seperate and not 1.  They are as one, but are three.

TK1 you say, "They are as one" in which verse is it worded that way?

TK1 you say, "three are seperate and not one" in which verse is it worded that way?

Where does it say differently? Where does it say Jesus is God?

John 10:30 I and the Father are one." NIV

 

John 12:45 For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me. TLB

 

John 8:23 But he (Jesus) continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins."

 

I guess the Bible just isn't good enough for you!

 

___________________________________________________

 

One Lord, One Faith, One Book. Eph. 4:5-Heb. 10.7 ;)

 

 

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24

KJV

 

Who does Jesus claim to be?

[anakainosis 0]

 

Jesus said,

 

"Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple." (John 8:56-59, ESV)

 

Jesus claims to be the “I AM”.

 

 

"God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’” (Exodus 3:14, ESV)

 

But wait, God in the Old Testament claimed to be the “I AM”, hmmm…

 

Was Jesus claiming to be God? I guess so, John also said that what God was, the Word was and that’s “The Word was God” (John 1:1).

 

Wow, what simple scriptural truths that some people stubbornly reject.

 

 

[Prophet 0]

And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

 

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

.....flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

John the Baptist said... And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

 

I wonder why Jesus never revealed to his disciples that He was God....maybe He wasn't?

[anakainosis 0]

And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

 

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

.....flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

John the Baptist said... And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

 

I wonder why Jesus never revealed to his disciples that He was God....maybe He wasn't?

Maybe you’re confused.

 

You should probably not worry yourself on this topic and move on to the Yahoo site. ;)

 

 

[Prophet 0]

And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

 

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

.....flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

John the Baptist said... And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

 

I wonder why Jesus never revealed to his disciples that He was God....maybe He wasn't?

Maybe you’re confused.

 

You should probably not worry yourself on this topic and move on to the Yahoo site. ;)

 

 

One Lord, One Faith, One Book...but three Gods.

 

Go figure :(

[anakainosis 0]

And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

 

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

.....flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

John the Baptist said... And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

 

I wonder why Jesus never revealed to his disciples that He was God....maybe He wasn't?

Maybe you’re confused.

 

You should probably not worry yourself on this topic and move on to the Yahoo site. ;)

 

 

One Lord, One Faith, One Book...but three Gods.

 

Go figure :(

Three gods…

 

See, here are the problems; you and Danny make assumptions that are not backed up by any proof, like usual.

 

When did Seeking or I make this statement? Why don’t you point that out to us, you have a full thread on this topic from last year. Remember?

 

Where is the proof? Or where is the beef? :blink:

 

 

[Prophet 0]

And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

 

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

.....flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

John the Baptist said... And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

 

I wonder why Jesus never revealed to his disciples that He was God....maybe He wasn't?

Maybe you’re confused.

 

You should probably not worry yourself on this topic and move on to the Yahoo site. ;)

 

 

One Lord, One Faith, One Book...but three Gods.

 

Go figure :(

Three gods…

 

See, here are the problems; you and Danny make assumptions that are not backed up by any proof, like usual.

 

When did Seeking or I make this statement? Why don’t you point that out to us, you have a full thread on this topic from last year. Remember?

 

Where is the proof? Or where is the beef? :blink:

 

 

When did Seeking or I make this statement?

 

What statement?

 

Why don’t you point that out to us, you have a full thread on this topic from last year. Remember?

Point what out to you?

 

Where is the proof?

Prove what?

 

Or where is the beef?

Lawrys is very good for prime rib.

[anakainosis 0]

And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

 

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

.....flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

John the Baptist said... And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

 

I wonder why Jesus never revealed to his disciples that He was God....maybe He wasn't?

Maybe you’re confused.

 

You should probably not worry yourself on this topic and move on to the Yahoo site. ;)

 

 

One Lord, One Faith, One Book...but three Gods.

 

Go figure :(

Three gods…

 

See, here are the problems; you and Danny make assumptions that are not backed up by any proof, like usual.

 

When did Seeking or I make this statement? Why don’t you point that out to us, you have a full thread on this topic from last year. Remember?

 

Where is the proof? Or where is the beef? :blink:

 

 

When did Seeking or I make this statement?

 

What statement?

 

Why don’t you point that out to us, you have a full thread on this topic from last year. Remember?

Point what out to you?

 

Where is the proof?

Prove what?

 

Or where is the beef?

Lawrys is very good for prime rib.

 

?

 

Who’s on first? :

 

 

[sadichka 0]

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:1-14 NKJV)

 

I would love to discuss these verses. I've noticed that the Book of John is poetic and uses symbols and contrasting imagery to explain who Christ is. (ex: The Word, The Light...light/darkness). This is a different writing style compared to Matthew and Mark. I find myself wondering what type of person, in that historical time, would have gravitated toward this book. It seems that certain books of the Bible appeal to different personalities. I read Psalms quite often, probably because I am a poet at heart! I find myself reading and re-reading this chapter of John over and over again.

 

Also, I am curious why John did not refer to himself as John, rather "the disciple whom Jesus loved." I know that they were cousins and that he was one of the 'inner circle' of disciples that were closest with Jesus.

 

Sada the Student

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Take a look at these two verses next to each other...

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

What does this mean to you?

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:1-14 NKJV)

 

I would love to discuss these verses. I've noticed that the Book of John is poetic and uses symbols and contrasting imagery to explain who Christ is. (ex: The Word, The Light...light/darkness). This is a different writing style compared to Matthew and Mark. I find myself wondering what type of person, in that historical time, would have gravitated toward this book. It seems that certain books of the Bible appeal to different personalities. I read Psalms quite often, probably because I am a poet at heart! I find myself reading and re-reading this chapter of John over and over again.

 

Also, I am curious why John did not refer to himself as John, rather "the disciple whom Jesus loved." I know that they were cousins and that he was one of the 'inner circle' of disciples that were closest with Jesus.

 

Sada the Student

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Bringing this to the top

[fountain-drink 0]

1 ? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

5 ? And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:1-14 NKJV)

 

The Word is God and the Word became flesh too

 

So, who is the Word?

 

 

Why are we re-hashing this? How many times can we go around and around and around with this? You got your answer on the other thread.

[anakainosis 0]

Bringing this to the top

 

 

Why?

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Because it relates to another John Discussion here

[seeking_truth_1 0]

I know the answer, but sadichka wanted to discuss the Book of John and so I was "re-hashing" for her/them :64:

 

As a thought, you may understand it, but not everyone one else does.

 

It bears repeating

 

Why are we re-hashing this? How many times can we go around and around and around with this? You got your answer on the other thread.

[sadichka 0]

Thank you, Seeking!

 

The reason 'why' this is being pushed to the top is because I am trying to learn something here. A few years ago, Seeking would post different studies on the Word. It has been very helpful. Contrary to popular belief, I do not know everything!

 

I know, it is shocking.

 

Come on, FD...join in.

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

I agree that the "the Word" in this sentence represents Jesus. So if we replace the name "Jesus" for the name "the Word":

 

In the beginning was [Jesus], and [Jesus] was with God, and [Jesus] was God.

 

My problem with this 'easy' verse is the word [with], what is the Greek interpretation for [with] in this verse? How can Jesus be [with] God and 'be' [*form of was*] God?

 

What does it mean to be [with] God?

 

I guess that'll be a good start.

 

Student Sada

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Perhaps I should repost those studies too...

 

I'll need to diggum mup and we'll address the other question in a bit

[fountain-drink 0]

Perhaps I should repost those studies too...

 

I'll need to diggum mup and we'll address the other question in a bit

 

 

Ok,, Ok, I will join in....I'm ready to learn something. Sorry Seeking, been having a few bad days. Someone I love very much is very, very, very sick.

[sadichka 0]

Before we begin in John, a suggestion that very well make a difference

 

Ask your elders to do as prescribed in Scripture regarding this illness (note verse 14)

 

"12 But most of all, my brothers and sisters, never take an oath, by heaven or earth or anything else. Just say a simple yes or no, so that you will not sin and be condemned for it.

13 Are any among you suffering? They should keep on praying about it. And those who have reason to be thankful should continually sing praises to the Lord.

14 Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord.

15 And their prayer offered in faith will heal the sick, and the Lord will make them well. And anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven.

16 Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and wonderful results." (James 5:12-16 NLT)

 

More to follow

 

 

 

 

Ok,, Ok, I will join in....I'm ready to learn something. Sorry Seeking, been having a few bad days. Someone I love very much is very, very, very sick.

 

Thank you, and yes, the Elders have come to pray for her. Yesterday was not so good of a day for her. She had a set back.

 

FD, my family and I will keep her in our prayers.

 

Sada

[fountain-drink 0]

Seeking had this in his little lesson.....what comforting words to me right now!

 

4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!

5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.

6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

[sadichka 0]

I was looking at some of the old posts and found this thread. I heard that BSF is going to study this!

 

Cheryl

 

ps: Seeking, sorry that I didn't answer you. I wasn't certain if the question you posed was to begin a meaningful discussion between Christians. I am still uncertain if you view me as your sister in Christ.

[sadichka 0]

I was looking at some of the old posts and found this thread. I heard that BSF is going to study this!

 

Cheryl

 

ps: Seeking, sorry that I didn't answer you. I wasn't certain if the question you posed was to begin a meaningful discussion between Christians. I am still uncertain if you view me as your sister in Christ.

 

This question to Seeking remains unanswered, so my understanding is that he will not have a biblical discussion with me.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Which question did I miss?

 

It seems like I had originally asked a question regarding John 1:1 & 1:14

 

Three years later you decided to still not answer?

 

I was looking at some of the old posts and found this thread. I heard that BSF is going to study this!

 

Cheryl

 

ps: Seeking, sorry that I didn't answer you. I wasn't certain if the question you posed was to begin a meaningful discussion between Christians. I am still uncertain if you view me as your sister in Christ.

 

This question to Seeking remains unanswered, so my understanding is that he will not have a biblical discussion with me.

[sadichka 0]

I was looking at some of the old posts and found this thread. I heard that BSF is going to study this!

 

Cheryl

 

ps: Seeking, sorry that I didn't answer you. I wasn't certain if the question you posed was to begin a meaningful discussion between Christians. I am still uncertain if you view me as your sister in Christ.

 

This is the post that I asked the question. Here it is again:

 

I am still uncertain if you view me as your sister in Christ.

 

If you do not view me as a sister in Christ then how could we have a biblical discussion. It is your rule or boundary or limitation or whatever you want to call it. If I am wrong about this rule (my word, not yours) please let me know.

 

Yes or no.

 

Cheryl

[seeking_truth_1 0]

I've answered this quite a few times...

 

You state the following

 

If you do not view me as a sister in Christ then how could we have a biblical discussion. It is your rule or boundary or limitation or whatever you want to call it. If I am wrong about this rule (my word, not yours) please let me know.

 

Yes or no.

 

There are three separate issues/questions that all cannot be answered with a single Yes or No

 

They are as follows

 

1. Do I view you as a sister in Christ?
2. Your assertion that I have a rule about discussing Scripture with non-Christians
3. Are you wrong about this "rule"?

I would appear you are not getting the answer you are looking for and I cannot concern myself with that

 

All I can do is answer as honestly and clearly as I can to explain my views

 

Number 1

 

Do I view you as a sister in Christ?

 

I say "I Do not know" for reasons i cited in another post related to reconciling the huge discrepancies between 21st century molokanism and Biblical Christianity

 

When you did not answer my original question regarding John 1:1 & 1:14 and it's meaning I was concerned

 

This is a core tenet to Biblical Christianity

 

Number 2

Your assertion that I have a rule about discussing Scripture with non-Christians

 

I DID NOT say I would not discuss Scripture with you nor do I have a "rule" about discussing Scripture with non-Chrsitians

 

I DID say how could I discuss finer points of Christian Doctrine with you if you apparently did not get the basics

Number 3

Are you wrong about this rule?

 

In a word, yes.

 

I DO NOT have a "rule" regarding dicsussion of Christian Doctrine with non-Christians

 

Here's an illustration

 

How can I discuss calculus if someone does not understand basic addition tables

 

Not to say you do not understand the basics, but you did not answer my question regarding John 1:1 & John 1:14

 

That leads me to believe either you do not accept Jesus and Deity or you were unwilling to answer for other reasons

 

In either case how could we have a dialog on the Book of John if we can't get past the first Chapter?

 

I was looking at some of the old posts and found this thread. I heard that BSF is going to study this!

 

Cheryl

 

ps: Seeking, sorry that I didn't answer you. I wasn't certain if the question you posed was to begin a meaningful discussion between Christians. I am still uncertain if you view me as your sister in Christ.

 

This is the post that I asked the question. Here it is again:

 

I am still uncertain if you view me as your sister in Christ.

 

If you do not view me as a sister in Christ then how could we have a biblical discussion. It is your rule or boundary or limitation or whatever you want to call it. If I am wrong about this rule (my word, not yours) please let me know.

 

Yes or no.

 

Cheryl

[LTTBT 0]

Seeking , you have put everything on the table about what and who you believe in. There are no doubts about that.

Do I get offended about the questions you ask? No. As a matter of fact some of these discussions here have shown me

that I was thinking wrong (or didn't understand) about some things, while others have re-affirmed that I am on the right path.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Thank you for that...

 

I'm not trying to offend, but call people to action

 

If someone says their are a Christian they must deal with the inconsistencies within 21st molokanism versus Biblical Christianity

 

It's very tough stuff and people get their feathers ruffled

 

That is not my end game to incite people to anger

 

Rather it is to cause them to take a hard look at their profession of faith and contrast that with the tenets the molokan "church" as it exists today

 

For the Christian, there should be some glaring issues that cannot be ignored

 

 

 

 

Seeking , you have put everything on the table about what and who you believe in. There are no doubts about that.

Do I get offended about the questions you ask? No. As a matter of fact some of these discussions here have shown me

that I was thinking wrong (or didn't understand) about some things, while others have re-affirmed that I am on the right path.

[sadichka 0]

Seeking,

 

Seeing as I am being viewed as a 'fool' by Steadfast, I will only post scripture as my answer so as not to offend.

 

Cheryl

 

Colossians 1:15-20

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

I guess that's one way to avoid answering a question...

 

What does steadfast have to do with this discussion?

 

In fact he has not posted anything in this thread

 

Why are you avoiding a simple, straight forward question?

 

It comes down to the Deity of Jesus

 

What about John 1:1 & John 1:14?

 

Steadfast is not here and you are not being forthright

 

I answered all of your questions...

 

What about equal consideration?

 

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory." (1Timothy 3:16 NKJV)

 

By the way, your attempt to deflect attention from the subject at hand by "blaming" steadfast adds more credence to my "I do not know" position

 

 

 

 

Seeking,

 

Seeing as I am being viewed as a 'fool' by Steadfast, I will only post scripture as my answer so as not to offend.

 

Cheryl

 

Colossians 1:15-20

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

[sadichka 0]

In the thread "Dealing with the basics"...post # 14, I assumed that you knew Steadfast answered for you:

 

He DIDN'T say he would not discuss a finer point of Christian doctrine with you, but he DID say it seemed futile, Scripture says the same thing about futility and Ministering the Word, Seeking is within the bounds of Scripture discipline and is correct to have those feelings. FYI, Scripture says not to argue with a fool who has not been called to understanding, and it is the arguing that Seeking is avoiding. On that subject I take it to the next level. While it's not given for all to formally minister, it is given for some to expose (like myself), and some are to rebuke as sternly as is necessary Scripture says.......SF

 

My bad.

 

I am not avoiding an answer. I posted scripture to confirm scripture. It is a simple and straightforward answer. Scripture to confirm scripture. Also, I am not ashamed to admit that there is plenty that I need to learn. Thus, the bible study.

 

I was happy to find the following scripture because it goes along with my search for "What makes God happy."

 

Colossians 1:19

19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him

 

Cheryl

[seeking_truth_1 0]

I forgot about this...

 

TTT (To The Top)

[sadichka 0]

Thank you, Seeking!

 

The reason 'why' this is being pushed to the top is because I am trying to learn something here. A few years ago, Seeking would post different studies on the Word. It has been very helpful. Contrary to popular belief, I do not know everything!

 

I know, it is shocking.

 

Come on, FD...join in.

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

I agree that the "the Word" in this sentence represents Jesus. So if we replace the name "Jesus" for the name "the Word":

 

In the beginning was [Jesus], and [Jesus] was with God, and [Jesus] was God.

 

My problem with this 'easy' verse is the word [with], what is the Greek interpretation for [with] in this verse? How can Jesus be [with] God and 'be' [*form of was*] God?

 

What does it mean to be [with] God?

 

I guess that'll be a good start.

 

Student Sada

 

We could start where we left off: With the word 'with'

 

Cheryl

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Sure, we could do that

 

I'm working on a reply

 

 

 

Thank you, Seeking!

 

The reason 'why' this is being pushed to the top is because I am trying to learn something here. A few years ago, Seeking would post different studies on the Word. It has been very helpful. Contrary to popular belief, I do not know everything!

 

I know, it is shocking.

 

Come on, FD...join in.

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

I agree that the "the Word" in this sentence represents Jesus. So if we replace the name "Jesus" for the name "the Word":

 

In the beginning was [Jesus], and [Jesus] was with God, and [Jesus] was God.

 

My problem with this 'easy' verse is the word [with], what is the Greek interpretation for [with] in this verse? How can Jesus be [with] God and 'be' [*form of was*] God?

 

What does it mean to be [with] God?

 

I guess that'll be a good start.

 

Student Sada

 

We could start where we left off: With the word 'with'

 

Cheryl

 

[Disciple 0]

OK, but disciple (and others) call into question the King James Version of the Bible and it's accuracy because of the "ecumenical 666" influence

 

I believe, and have for several years already that "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." (Psalm 12:6-7) I believe that the Authorised Bible is The Word of God to english speaking people, and I don't think I have ever on here called into question it's inerrancy.

 

You are pretty meticulous on people misquoting you, I am the same. I would appreciate a simple recant. Thanks.

[Disciple 0]

We could start where we left off: With the word 'with'

 

Cheryl

 

I will start off with this, if I may. The first thing I like to do when studying something is to remember God with Abraham. Romans 4:3 "

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."

 

If we start every study with this in mind, that our believing God, is what our justification is based upon, and it is pleasing to The Father for us to believe Him. Then we go on and realize that The Bible is His book, full of His Words. No matter what, all of the words are true, and we are to believe them all first, then try to 'figure them out' second. If we do this, we can remember that this is the 'wisdom of God', not the 'wisdom of man'.

 

I am not saying that we should turn off our brains, but I am saying that we need to firstly believe that "every word of God is pure", for it is pleasing to God that we believe Him, then God will open up our hearts and minds to understanding.

 

1 Corinthinas 1:18-21 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

 

Colossians 1:9 "For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;"

 

2 Timothy 2:7 "Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things."

 

Now, let's dig in.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

I think I can do that now...

 

Were my observations incorrect prior?

 

Traditional molokanists (group 2 & 3) most always called into question the veracity of Scripture

 

If not overtly, certainly by adhering to the s&l which is diametrically opposed to the Bible

 

However, I do find this an odd statement

 

" I believe that the Authorised Bible is The Word of God to english speaking people, and I don't think I have ever on here called into question it's inerrancy."

 

Isn't the Word of God the Word of God regardless of it's translation

 

Of course excluding JW, mormon & like "translations"

 

 

OK, but disciple (and others) call into question the King James Version of the Bible and it's accuracy because of the "ecumenical 666" influence

 

I believe, and have for several years already that "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." (Psalm 12:6-7) I believe that the Authorised Bible is The Word of God to english speaking people, and I don't think I have ever on here called into question it's inerrancy.

 

You are pretty meticulous on people misquoting you, I am the same. I would appreciate a simple recant. Thanks.

[Disciple 0]

I can do that now...

 

Were my observations incorrect prior?

 

Traditional molokanists (group 2 & 3) most always called into question the veracity of Scripture

 

If not overtly, certainly by adhering to the s&l which is diametrically opposed to the Bible

 

Good point, I did believe two contradictory things, and a person can only do that for so long and be sane. But nonetheless I don't think (I have to be careful for my memory is terrible) I ever overtly called into question the reliability of the Authorised Bible.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Thank you for clarifying

[steadfast 0]

I assumed that you knew Steadfast answered for you:

That is not true, I pointed out what was previously said by another, then I commented,…. read it again…."he DID say". Who is being referred to in the quotation, Sadichka who is "he"? Learn to love the truth.

 

….my search for "What makes God happy."

You are searching for what makes God happy then learn to love the truth, so to be saved...........Walk your talk counselor!

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

This is going to take a bit, so instead of trying to "nail" everything down, I'll share where we are at so far.

 

To begin

 

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1 NKJV)

 

This strikes at the very heart of the issue and it is why there is so much controvesy regarding who Jesus is

 

All false religions including "christian" cults have one common thread: They all advocate another way other than through the finished work of Jesus (as God in the flesh) on the Cross

 

Specifically the "christian" cults all attempt to deny the deity of Jesus and will often times substitute other practices to allegedly deal with sin and it's penalty

 

Works, ceremony, lineage, "special" knowledge etc...

 

 

The central idea is that God is One yet is comprised of three distinct persons (Father, Son & Holy Spirit)

 

There are not 3 "gods" or somehow all of the Persons of the Triunity of God are not equal

 

""Listen, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone." (Deuteronomy 6:4 NLT)

 

""But you are my witnesses, O Israel!" says the LORD. "You are my servant. You have been chosen to know me, believe in me, and understand that I alone am God. There is no other God— there never has been, and there never will be." (Isaiah 43:10 NLT)

 

To further develop a case for the Triunity

 

Each of the Persons (Father, Son & Holy Spirit) are referred to as God

 

Father is called God

"and one God and Father, who is over all and in all and living through all." (Ephesians 4:6 NLT)

"But don't be so concerned about perishable things like food. Spend your energy seeking the eternal life that the Son of Man can give you. For God the Father has given me the seal of his approval."" (John 6:27 NLT)

 

 

The Son (Jesus) is called God

 

"But to the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. You rule with a scepter of justice." (Heb 1:8 NLT)

""My Lord and my God!" Thomas exclaimed." (John 20:28 NLT)

"And we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us understanding so that we can know the true God. And now we live in fellowship with the true God because we live in fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the only true God, and he is eternal life." (1John 5:20 NLT)

 

The Holy Spirit is called God

 

"3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, why have you let Satan fill your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself.

4 The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God!"" (Acts 5:3-4 NLT)

 

Need to take a breath...

 

Are you tracking?

 

We could start where we left off: With the word 'with'

 

Cheryl

[sadichka 0]

Steadfast.....

 

This is an 'A - B' conversation sooooooo....'C' your way out of it.

 

*************************************************************

 

Seeking,

 

You are welcome!

 

Cheryl

[sadichka 0]

Now I can understand why a single verse can be so simple, yet so difficult!

 

Give me a while to read this over.

 

Thank you for being patient.

 

Cheryl

[steadfast 0]

Steadfast.....

 

This is an 'A - B' conversation sooooooo....'C' your way out of it.

 

Cheryl

Oops Cheryl.....Who brought my name into the conversation, maybe you forgot it was you. An honest oversight I'm sure…..SF

 

 

 

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Not a problem...

 

This is a central tenet of Biblical Christianity

[seeking_truth_1 0]

hello...? Even if you may not fully grasp the idea, do you receive it?

 

with should now make much more sense

 

As it has been stated, Jesus has to be who He said He is or His life, death and resurrection cannot save and mankind is without recourse

[seeking_truth_1 0]

How long should I wait so I may continue?

 

Seems that if we cannot get past this, there's no point in continuing

[coffee 0]

Seeking and Cheryl,

 

You have two different places where you are discussing this topic.

 

One is here in this thread.

 

The other is in the Anonymous section, Book of John Discussion.

 

Would it be possible for you to choose either one or the other?

 

Or maybe ask the Administrators to consolidate the discussion into one?

 

I would like to post something regarding Chery's concern about isolating the word "with", but I am not sure which thread to post it in.

 

....and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. (John 1:1-2)

 

Thank you.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

This should be the place

 

Not sure what happened to her

 

 

 

Seeking and Cheryl,

 

You have two different places where you are discussing this topic.

 

One is here in this thread.

 

The other is in the Anonymous section, Book of John Discussion.

 

Would it be possible for you to choose either one or the other?

 

Or maybe ask the Administrators to consolidate the discussion into one?

 

I would like to post something regarding Chery's concern about isolating the word "with", but I am not sure which thread to post it in.

 

....and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. (John 1:1-2)

 

Thank you.

[coffee 0]

.

 

This should be the place

 

Not sure what happened to her

 

 

pros ton Theon

 

From the Greek Interlinear Bible:

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. This one was in the beginning with God. (John 1:1-2)

 

 

That individuals would reject the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, or decline making a commitment about identifying which Jesus they believe in, based on their demand for a clarification of the word "with" in the above passage, is to isolate an individual Biblical text without considering the full counsel of the Scriptures, and in the process disregard and reject the context of what is written, specifically those passages which proclaim the truth that Jesus is God Who came down from heaven to live on earth as a human being, in the person of Jesus of Nazareth.

 

Years ago, I listened to a sermon on tape from a pastor who addressed the specific Greek text, "pros ton Theon", and I decided to do a study of this particular term, which occurs approximately twenty times in the New Testament.

 

The context of this term, as written by the Apostle John in the above Biblical passage, indicates two persons. That God is One united and inseparable being, Who IS and has made Himself known to mankind at different times as three distinct, coequal, coeternal and coexistent Persons, is the testimony of the written Word of God. In the above mentioned text, the Word is being identified by the Apostle John as One Who is God, but Who is not God the Father.

 

Among the various attempts to translate this term most accurately from the original Greek text into English, while preserving both context and syntax, this term conveys the following:

 

The Word was face to face with God

 

The Word was facing towards in reciprocal action with God

 

The Word was turned towards God

 

The Word was in intimate relationship with God

 

The Word was in fellowship with God

 

The Word was at home with God

 

 

When the Lord Jesus Christ is described in the Scriptures as the pre-incarnate Word of God, the context is that He is the consolidated thought of God. He is the pre-manifested plan of God, in thought form. He is the desired expression of this thought, which exists in the mind of God. This is how the Word can be "with" God, yet at the same time "BE" God Himself.

 

According to what is recorded in the Bible, it is THIS Word that came down from heaven to become human flesh, to change from Spirit form into a body of skin and bones and blood, which was the historical person of Jesus of Nazareth.

 

I am always amazed at the transformation that takes place in the life of a variety of species of caterpillar, which begins in the form of a thick, usually ugly looking fat worm that crawls on its belly with tiny little feet. Then, at its appointed time, this caterpillar climbs up onto a perch somewhere, many times on the bark of a tree, and begins to encase itself inside of a cocoon. Once inside of the cocoon, it changes form, it undergoes a metamorphosis, and emerges as a butterfly, with wings and in a body and form that is completely different from how it began.

 

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us....(John 1:14)

 

In my experience, when someone from among our American "Molokans" has begun their life with a belief system in which the Lord Jesus Christ is less than God, it is rare for them to come to the point where they will admit that what they have been taught to believe all of their lives is wrong. Such individuals usually become skeptical of those passages in the Bible which proclaim the deity of Jesus, and they spend much of their time trying to find "wiggle room" with which they can still season their conversation with Christian sounding speech, attempting to include themselves and number themselves with other Jesus followers, yet deny the deity of the very person Who is the Lord, Who is Jesus, Who is God.

 

.

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Merrill C. Tenney, in his commentary on the Gospel of John, adds, "To say the absence of the article bespeaks of the non-absolute deity of the Word is sheer folly. There are many places in this Gospel where the anarthrous theos appears (e.g. 1:6,12,13,18), and not once is the implication that this is referring to just 'a god'" (p.30).

 

Tenney comments about John 1:1-2:

Literally, it could and should be rendered, 'WHEN THE BEGINNING BEGAN, THE WORD WAS ALREADY THERE.' This is the sense of en (was), which is in the imperfect tense and implies continuing existence in the past. So before the beginning began, the Word was already in existence. This is tantamount to saying THE WORD PREDATES TIME OR CREATION (p.30).

[fourvetta 0]

Literally, it could and should be rendered, 'WHEN THE BEGINNING BEGAN, THE WORD WAS ALREADY THERE.' This is the sense of en (was), which is in the imperfect tense and implies continuing existence in the past. So before the beginning began, the Word was already in existence. This is tantamount to saying THE WORD PREDATES TIME OR CREATION (p.30).

 

 

Wisdom was in the beginning with God. Wisdom is called the Omnipotent Word of God. Proverbs 8

 

 

22 “ The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.

 

23 I have been established from everlastingFrom the beginning, before there was ever an earth.

 

24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no fountains abounding with water.

 

25 Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills, I was brought forth;

 

26 While as yet He had not made the earth or the fields, Or the primal dust of the world.

 

27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,

 

28 When He established the clouds above, When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,

 

29 When He assigned to the sea its limit, So that the waters would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth,

 

30 Then I was beside Him as a master craftsman;

[seeking_truth_1 0]

What happened to sadichka?

[seeking_truth_1 0]

I have a prayer request for the all of the members of this forum (including me) and those that read it as non-members.

 

My request is that the Lord open the eyes of His followers so that they will be able to recognize each other. Please, Lord, take away the frustration and hatred; the contempt and mistrust; the judgement and the lies. Replace it with the fruit of the Spirit, abundant and pure; recognizable and true. That we may commit our lives to helping each other, physically, spiritually and emotionally. Help us to seek Your Will continually and lovingly. Teach us the boundaries of sin and continually lead us from temptation, including the temptation to tear each other down. Allow us to look at ourselves before searching for the guilt in someone else. Shower the blessings that only you can give upon those that seek You.

 

In the name of the Lord, Jesus Christ.

 

Amen.

[sadichka 0]

Thank you for posting my prayer.

 

As I stated before, give me some time and I will study what you have posted. Have patience.

 

Cheryl

[seeking_truth_1 0]

Glad to see you are still around...

 

Didn't know what happened