Spiritual Marriage Discussion

anonymous · June 29, 2006

QUOTE

fourvetta

Post #25

This is what I mean that one MUST come out of the book to be led by the Spirit. The scriptures can now mean anything one wants it to.

Christ came to save us from the letter. The Jews following the letter were the murderers of the prophets and Christ Himself.

The letter kills, but it is the Spirit which gives life.

It is written in THE HOLY SCRIPTURES:

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." (Genesis 2:24)

"And HE (JESUS) answered and said to them, ˜Have you not read that HE WHO made them at the beginning made them male and female,` and said, ˜For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh`? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what GOD has joined together, let not man separate.`" (Matthew 4-6)

fourvetta,

Can you, an advocate of "coming out of the book (THE HOLY SCRIPTURES)," and presumably one who is "led by THE SPIRIT," explain to us what a "spiritual" marriage is?

fourvetta · June 29, 2006

fourvetta

Post #25

This is what I mean that one MUST come out of the book to be led by the Spirit. The scriptures can now mean anything one wants it to.

Christ came to save us from the letter. The Jews following the letter were the murderers of the prophets and Christ Himself.

The letter kills, but it is the Spirit which gives life.

It is written in THE HOLY SCRIPTURES:

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." (Genesis 2:24)

"And HE (JESUS) answered and said to them, ˜Have you not read that HE WHO made them at the beginning made them male and female,` and said, ˜For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh`? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what GOD has joined together, let not man separate.`" (Matthew 4-6)

fourvetta,

Can you, an advocate of "coming out of the book (THE HOLY SCRIPTURES)," and presumably one who is "led by THE SPIRIT," explain to us what a "spiritual" marriage is?

The soul is Adam and the flesh is Eve. They are no longer two, but one. And the Spirit, who is God walks between the two.

Have you not read in the scriptures?

But when the sons of God began to mix with the daughters of men, God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such."

In other words, such were not and are no longer in the image of God.

fourvetta · July 1, 2006

The soul is Adam and the flesh is Eve. They are no longer two, but one. And the Spirit, who is God walks between the two.

This being of course, the literal understanding of the spiritual marriage.

The first Adam and not the second.

Edited July 1, 2006 by fourvetta

coffee · July 2, 2006

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fourvetta, on the subject of "spiritual marriage":

The soul is Adam and the flesh is Eve. They are no longer two, but one.

And the Spirit, who is God walks between the two.

Have you not read in the scriptures?

This, coming from the same person who stated the following, about what is written in the Bible:

Christ came to save us from the dead letter of the scriptures.

It is the Spoken Words of God that give Life and not the written Word.

It is the Spirit which gives Life and not a dead letter. - fourvetta, Post # 40, Is Jesus God thread

According to what is written in the Bible, Christ came to save mankind from our sins (Matthew 1:21 and 1 Timothy 1:15).

More from fourvetta about the subject of "spiritual marriages":

But when the sons of God began to mix with the daughters of men, God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such."

In other words, such were not and are no longer in the image of God.

This being of course, the literal understanding of the spiritual marriage.

The first Adam and not the second.

There is nothing mentioned about where fourvetta supposedly found his source of reference, but in the Bible, there is a passage that sounds suspiciously similar. However, as is the case with most of fourvetta's strange doctrines, it is grossly misquoted, and is another excellent example of how the Rudometkinites twist what is written in the Scriptures out of context.

From the Bible:

When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,

the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.

Then the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years." (Genesis 6:1-3)

Prior to that time, the descendents of Adam, who are referred to as "the sons of God", lived a very long time, as many as 969 years. The context of this Scripture, which fourvetta has misquoted, is that as the human race began to populate the earth, becoming more evil and wicked as time went on, God reduced the number of years that man and woman would live.

Then God said, "I'm not going to breathe life into men and women endlessly. Eventually they are going to die; from now on, they can expect a lifespan of 120 years." (corresponding text of Genesis 6:3, the Message Bible)

Contrary to fourvetta's false teaching, the context of this passage that is written in the Bible has nothing to do with any alleged "spiritual marriages", or any man and woman being married "in the image of God".

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fourvetta · July 2, 2006

From the Bible:

When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,

the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.

Then the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years." (Genesis 6:1-3)

Prior to that time, the descendents of Adam, who are referred to as "the sons of God", lived a very long time, as many as 969 years. The context of this Scripture, which fourvetta has misquoted, is that as the human race began to populate the earth, becoming more evil and wicked as time went on, God reduced the number of years that man and woman would live.

Then God said, "I'm not going to breathe life into men and women endlessly. Eventually they are going to die; from now on, they can expect a lifespan of 120 years." (corresponding text of Genesis 6:3, the Message Bible)

Contrary to fourvetta's false teaching, the context of this passage that is written in the Bible has nothing to do with any alleged "spiritual marriages", or any man and woman being married "in the image of God".

From the time that God made up His mind of the fate of mankind to the time of the flood was a period of 120 years.

It was not a reference to the length of a individual mans life but of length time for mankind overall.

The sons of God continued through Seth after Abel was murdered by his brother Cain. Cain was not a son of God, but was a murderer from the beginning.

There are sons and daughters of God and there are sons and daughters of men.

In the same household there are two vessels. One a vessel of honor and a vessel of dishonor. Honorable matrimony and dishonorable matrimony.

Because of the mixture of the two, God destroyed the first world.

The battle continues today.

The sons of men continued after the flood through Ham. The seed cursed by God.

Likewise the seed blessed by God, the sons of God continued though Shem. It is through this bloodline that Christ was born. Read Luke 3

One shall persecute the other. The one born after the flesh shall persecute the one born after the spirit.

But the first shall be last and the last shall be first in the kingdom of God.

The violent attempt to take it by force, when it is a free gift.

coffee · July 2, 2006

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fourvetta, on the subject of "spiritual marriage":

The soul is Adam and the flesh is Eve. They are no longer two, but one.

And the Spirit, who is God walks between the two.

Have you not read in the scriptures?

But when the sons of God began to mix with the daughters of men, God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such."

In other words, such were not and are no longer in the image of God.

This being of course, the literal understanding of the spiritual marriage.

The first Adam and not the second.

How good of fourvetta to share his beliefs about this subject, which according to what Rudometkin wrote in the Spirit and Life book, contradicts everything that is written in the Bible about the institution of marriage, as established by God.

I am going to be repeating some of what I have already shared in a different thread. Because fourvetta did not seem interested in responding over there, I will bring portions of what I posted to this thread, and let us see where fourvetta cares to take us, with his responses.

From Rudometkin's writings, according to Danny *****************'s latest edition of his English translation of the Spirit and Life book:

As regards physical matters, marriage, although always open unto all, it must be performed by the hands of the prophet Emilian [Telegin] and my faithful church of Zion [Rudometkin's followers in the village of Nikitino], and my wife Maria Feodorevna, the queen of my court.... (Page 504, Book 10, Article 14, Verse 8)

In other words, Rudometkin was legally married to a woman named Maria. From documentation authenticated by present day descendents of Rudometkin, this woman's maiden name was Halopova (Halopoff), and her father's name was Feodor.

According to what is written in the Bible, marriage was established by God to be a monogamous relationship, and union, between one man and one woman, and was to be representative of the spiritual relationship, and union, between the Lord Jesus Christ and His followers, who are referred to in the Scriptures as His "Church".

In other words, from the very beginning, marriage was intended by the Lord to be "spiritual", as well as "physical".

From the Bible:

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.

For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.

Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,

so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church,

because we are members of his body.

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. (Ephesians 5:22-33)

According to the marriage relationship that God established in the Bible, for all of mankind, equally, Rudometkin's matrimony to his wife, Maria, should be considered by the Rudometkinites to have been not only a physical marriage, but a "spiritual" one as well.

More from Rudometkin, again from Danny *****************'s most recent English translation:

Second: you must also always marry spiritually by the love of inner harmony. (Page 443, Book 8, Article 23, Verse 3)

However, Rudometkin wrote in the Spirit and Life book that he had a "spiritual" wife, in addition to, and other than, the woman named Maria, who Rudometkin identified as "my wife".

According to Danny *****************'s newest publication:

Was it for this, that you forsook the beloved wife of my spiritual marriage....whose name is Cterafina....which signifies the love of my eternal union with her. (Page 270, Book 4, Article 2, Verse 7)

Take care my friends! Do not withhold this letter of mine....because it will gladden the hearts....of my beloved Marafina [Maria, physical wife] and Cterafina [Stenya, "spiritual" wife].... (Page 274, Book 4, Article 4, Verse 4)

On Pages 270 and 274 in both of his English translations, Danny ***************** identifies this "spiritual wife", Stenya, as an alleged "prophetess" in Rudometkin's church, who was among Rudometkin's followers in Nikitino.

According to what is written in the Scriptures, marriage between a man and a woman is representative of the relationship between the Lord Jesus Christ and His bride [His followers], and signifies the eternal union that the Lord has with His Church.

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. (Ephesians 5:31-32)

More from Rudometkin about "spiritual marriage", this time not with just one Bible based, spiritually mature woman of God, but with an unspecified number of chaste virgins:

And this is why I then first personally founded my spiritual marriage directly with all the chaste virgins [plural, as in polygamy] having the flaming holy love.... (Page 212, Book 2, Article 5, Verse 3)

In the Spirit and Life book, Rudometkin explains how he "wedded" Stenya, and even though his faithful followers would have us believe that his "holy matrimony" to her was somehow "spiritual", the reality is that the "union" of this "marriage" also included physical sex, and Rudometkin and Stenya were both promptly reported to the authorities, and punished for their sinful and shameful behavior.

As a result, Rudometkin was sent away to prison for a period of time, for the crime of unrepentant adultery and polygamy, under the guise of "spiritual marriage".

From Rudometkin:

Verily this is the selfsame Spirit-Comforter....hiding in secret like a betrothed bride and her groom until the day of their new-lawful marriage.

And that is why there suddenly and unexpectedly was revealed unto me and Cterafina a new unison....

I then, by the command of that selfsame Spirit of Truth, wedded with her personally unto eternity....

And so watching me, the enemy of God....here mercilessly attacked me and her....

They immediately....began to torture in every way my holy matrimony with her, for they knew I would never leave her of my own accord.

For in that diabolic rage....made false written reports concerning me everywhere, personally and directly to the deputy....He, following their denunciations, beat me and her unbearably with birch rods.

None of this would have separated me from her, except that this selfsame satan sent me away from her on this long period of severance with no meetings. (Page 197, Book 1, Article 29, Verses 4-10)

Questions to be considered, whether or not fourvetta, or any of the other Rudometkinites, decides to give answer:

1) If Rudometkin was already, admittedly, married to a woman named Maria Feodorovna, to whom he was already lawfully committed to, as a result of his "Holy Matrimony" to her, how do the Rudometkinites justify, Biblically or otherwise, Rudometkin's "holy matrimony" to the "other" wife, who Rudometkin identified by name, Stenya?

2) Where is it written in the Bible that a man is allowed by God to have a "spiritual wife", in addition to and other than the "one wife" he is already married to?

3) For those who are followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, who are married according to the guidelines established by God in the Bible, where is it written in the Scriptures about this concept for Rudometkin's alleged "spiritual symbolism", that a man can add unto himself, and the wife to whom he is already legally married, an additional wife, or multiple wives?

4) Which Scripture(s) explain the concept of a man adding to himself another woman, a "spiritual wife", in addition to and other than the "one wife" which, according to what the Lord has already established in the Bible, a man will leave his father and mother, and hold fast to his wife, so that the "two" will become one flesh?

5) If, as fourvetta has written, the Scriptures are the "dead letter", and are not "reliable" as supposedly "living" revelation from God, what "revelation" do the Rudometkinites use as justification and substantiation for what Rudometkin writes in the Spirit and Life book about "spiritual marriages"?

6) Is fourvetta's marriage to his wife considered to be "holy matrimony", as in a "spiritual marriage", or is fourvetta allowed to follow after the example of Rudometkin, and find / take for himself a "spiritual wife", in addition to, and other than, his current wife, Leah?

7) If today's Rudometkinite men do not believe that it is morally right to take for themselves additional "spiritual wives", in addition to, and other than, the wives to whom they are presently married, how do they justify Rudometkin doing so?

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coffee · July 2, 2006

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Wow! What "spiritual" insight! Did everyone catch that?

From the time that God made up His mind of the fate of mankind to the time of the flood was a period of 120 years.

It was not a reference to the length of a individual mans life but of length time for mankind overall.

The sons of God continued through Seth after Abel was murdered by his brother Cain. Cain was not a son of God, but was a murderer from the beginning.

There are sons and daughters of God and there are sons and daughters of men.

In the same household there are two vessels. One a vessel of honor and a vessel of dishonor. Honorable matrimony and dishonorable matrimony.

Because of the mixture of the two, God destroyed the first world.

The battle continues today.

The sons of men continued after the flood through Ham. The seed cursed by God.

Likewise the seed blessed by God, the sons of God continued though Shem. It is through this bloodline that Christ was born. Read Luke 3

One shall persecute the other. The one born after the flesh shall persecute the one born after the spirit.

But the first shall be last and the last shall be first in the kingdom of God.

The violent attempt to take it by force, when it is a free gift.

Did everyone notice how fourvetta avoids the issue of Scripture twisting, and fails to acknowledge that the alleged "Scripture which he supposedly "quoted" does not match up to what is written in the Bible?

Let us see what the "spirit" of the "king of spirits" has to share with us next!

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coffee · July 2, 2006

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From fourvetta:

But when the sons of God began to mix with the daughters of men, God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such."

From the written Word of God, what Bible based Molokan Christians refer to as the Holy Scriptures (using fourvetta's apparent choice for an English translation, even though fourvetta has openly stated that these are the "dead letter" of the Scriptures):

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

And the Lord said, "My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (Genesis 6:1-3, KJV)

Notice that what fourvetta claims is written in those dastardly "dead letters", according to what he presents as an alleged "quote" from the Scriptures, is not consistent with the actual Biblical text?

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fourvetta · July 2, 2006

According to what is written in the Bible, Christ came to save mankind from our sins (Matthew 1:21 and 1 Timothy 1:15).

Christ came only to those who received Him. To them He gave the right to be called the sons of God. No one can come unto Him unless the father draws him.

To those who did not, are simply weeds sown by the devil. They are to be gathered and burned at the end of the age by His harvesters. Then the wheat can be gathered into His barn.

I hate weeds.

coffee · July 2, 2006

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More from our "enlightened one":

Christ came only to those who received Him.

To them He gave the right to be called the sons of God.

No one can come unto Him unless the father draws him.

To those who did not, are simply weeds sown by the devil.

They are to be gathered and burned at the end of the age by His harvesters.

Then the wheat can be gathered into His barn.

I hate weeds.

The Lord Jesus Christ came to the entire world. Please read John 3:16.

The haughty arrogance of Rudometkin and his loyal followers, who adhere to the writings in the Spirit and Life book as if they were inspired by God Himself, is literally nauseating to all Bible based Molokan Christians, and it has been my experience throughout the years that when the most zealous of the Rudometkinites cannot give a Biblical answer for the heresy which they propagate, the above response given by fourvetta is most typical.

Thank you fourvetta for being so true to form.

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IvanTheDonut · July 2, 2006

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More from our "enlightened one":

Christ came only to those who received Him.

To them He gave the right to be called the sons of God.

No one can come unto Him unless the father draws him.

To those who did not, are simply weeds sown by the devil.

They are to be gathered and burned at the end of the age by His harvesters.

Then the wheat can be gathered into His barn.

I hate weeds.

The Lord Jesus Christ came to the entire world. Please read John 3:16.

The haughty arrogance of Rudometkin and his loyal followers, who adhere to the writings in the Spirit and Life book as if they were inspired by God Himself, is literally nauseating to all Bible based Molokan Christians, and it has been my experience throughout the years that when the most zealous of the Rudometkinites cannot give a Biblical answer for the heresy which they propagate, the above response given by fourvetta is most typical.

Thank you fourvetta for being so true to form.

.

What is so typical of "ye of little faith," is that everytime you ask in bewilderment why fourvetta cannot give a "biblical answer" to your questions, I go look at his post in question only to find that he usually quotes the bible. Isn't that biblical?

If not, I don't know what is.

fourvetta · July 2, 2006

Second: you must also always marry spiritually by the love of inner harmony. (Page 443, Book 8, Article 23, Verse 3)

Agreed. Beautiful verse.

But first, one must always sing and pray in the spirit and not according to the dead letter. After which one must divorce the matrimony where no promise is made.

Christ said, "One MUST be born again to enter the kingdom of God."

Those who are born after the flesh are flesh and those born after the Spirit are spirit. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Throughout the scripture, the literal word shows us that the first one born is supposed to be the inheritor of the fathers house. But that he takes it for granted and sells his birth right, thereby insulting his father.

This is one who born after the flesh, who is led by the book and the dead letter. It was his right to enter the kingdom of God first, but he did not.

The second one born is after the spirit, who is wed by the love of inner harmony and not by the dead letter.

This is the one who God prefers. For without faith it is impossible to please God.

Faith is the hope for things which are not visible, not in the book, but in the heart.

The heir does not differ from the servant until the appointed time by the father. They are both under tutors until the heir is weaned. At which time the voice is heard, "Cast out the bond servant and her son. They cannot be heirs together."

The heir abides in the fathers house forever.......................

God is not a book or a dead letter, but Spirit. And those who worship Him, must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

Apsotle Paul tells us in 2 Corinth.

3.You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4.Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God.

5.Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.

6.He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant”not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Such people have never accepted the Gospel or message of Christ. Without knowing that they are still in the old covenant of letters written upon stone, where all there sins remain. Even though He warned time and time again.

With no blood of the lamb on the doorposts of their heart. With no protection from the angel of death.

Comparing it to the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah perishing. Or as the time of the flood. Even comparing it to be burned in hell.

Remember the parable of rich man who had five brothers?

Abraham said,

26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

The people perishing, afterwards wishing they had listened. Pounding on the doors of the ark which Noah had built, knocking on the doors of mercy to which God Himself turns away.

"When I called you did not listen, now when you call I will not listen. Now I shall laugh when calamities overtake you."

Or the five foolish virgins wanting to enter the wedding chamber to which they were denied.

Saying, "We healed in your name, cast out demons and taught in your streets."

Christ Himself tells them, "Go away you wicked servants. I never knew you."

So let the sinisteral gentile and the apostate molokan stay absorbed in the dead letter.

seeking_truth_1 · July 2, 2006

so mgr was imprisoned, not because of the Gospel, but his own "faith" that included adultery, polygamy and pedophilia? :75:

I wonder if it is possible to get the legal docs/warrant from the Russian government?

Plus aren't there historical accounts of these events by credible sources?

More and more this guy sounds just like rasputin

QUOTE

Was it for this, that you forsook the beloved wife of my spiritual marriage....whose name is Cterafina....which signifies the love of my eternal union with her. (Page 270, Book 4, Article 2, Verse 7)

Take care my friends! Do not withhold this letter of mine....because it will gladden the hearts....of my beloved Marafina [Maria, physical wife] and Cterafina [Stenya, "spiritual" wife].... (Page 274, Book 4, Article 4, Verse 4)

On Pages 270 and 274 in both of his English translations, Danny ***************** identifies this "spiritual wife", Stenya, as an alleged "prophetess" in Rudometkin's church, who was among Rudometkin's followers in Nikitino.

More from Rudometkin about "spiritual marriage", this time not with just one Bible based, spiritually mature woman of God, but with an unspecified number of chaste virgins:

QUOTE

And this is why I then first personally founded my spiritual marriage directly with all the chaste virgins [plural, as in polygamy] having the flaming holy love.... (Page 212, Book 2, Article 5, Verse 3)

In the Spirit and Life book, Rudometkin explains how he "wedded" Stenya, and even though his faithful followers would have us believe that his "holy matrimony" to her was somehow "spiritual", the reality is that the "union" of this "marriage" also included physical sex, and Rudometkin and Stenya were both promptly reported to the authorities, and punished for their sinful and shameful behavior.

As a result, Rudometkin was sent away to prison for a period of time, for the crime of unrepentant adultery and polygamy, under the guise of "spiritual marriage".

anonymous · July 15, 2006

QUOTE

fourvetta

Post #2

The soul is Adam and the flesh is Eve. They are no longer two, but one. And the Spirit, who is God walks between the two.

fourvetta,

Keeping your explanation of a "spiritual" marriage above in view, can you tell us what mgr meant when he wrote about his spiritual marriages (plural)?

dhs' preface to the text from his 1971 work copy:

"This section from the originals of Maxim G. Rudometkim starts at the beginning of that which is called the forteenth (14) book, third (3) chapter in the 1928 edition of the Spirit and Life. And continues until the end of the bk 14 manuscript. (Contains chap 3, 4, 2:1 - XIII, 7:1 - 3 3/4, & 27)"

"This is about all of my newly acquired wives who I will write about here, in detail, about their union and separation from me.

To begin with, I'll mention how they were first joined to me and how, at that time, we were publicly joined in wedlock, by God himself and the Spirit of His Christ, together with the blessing given by laying on of hands of all their parents and also the prophetic word of the witness and activity of the spirit through Emilian, the prophet, who publicly joined me to them by the union of our willing hot love, producing an eternal, unseparable, holy new covenant, like a key and its lock, and the immortal life in both our loins, for 1000 years.

For this reason, we, in his holy union, all ate and drank together and almost all slept in the same bed together and verily, in this holy matrimony, we all kissed and thrust together, producing great joy, as the spirit inspired us to do and as is befitting any everlasting wedlock. But the key was not put into the lock, for the time had not yet come for that. God had not yet told us to do that, just as in Adam and Eve's case in the Paradise. This was done by the serpent, but not by God, so I stood strong and did not allow their will, before the proper time, to taste of the forbidden fruit and did not give them the key. But I waited for all of that as God, by the spirit, had told me to do. To this then are many witnesses, almost all of my chosen people who believe in me.

And they were all completely happy with these, my spiritual marriages, and willing to wait for intercourse with me, as I was their holy husband.

The first of these, my beloved wives, was Stenya and Varya and the rest like unto them, who now in my absence, inspired by Satan himself and without taking account of our eternal holy new marriage, almost all of them, suddenly, because of their defiled lustfulness, have lifted their adulterous tails to the dogs like a bitch in heat.

And all of them took themselves husbands who are not their lawful husbands but adulterous sons of Satan in bodily form, for which reason in these god-despised mismatches, they now indulge in adultery, like unclean beasts or defiled swine, and have become demon-possessed, by God's will. For this reason, any children born of them are cursed or like the bastard children of prostitutes and all of these unlawful children are consigned, by God, to everlasting death without chance of resurrection, as it is written, without respite.

And anyone who, today, will beat them, God will make holy for it. It would have been better for all of you, my new wives, to have never known this, my new path, which is eternal for all who walk it rightly. For it is true, not false, just like an arrow, straight to Zion, destined. But you did not desire it but chose, instead, to go the way of adultery, like cattle with bulls or you with your cursed husbands. You have forgotten me, your God-annointed husband and king.

For you all know very well what my spirit always clearly told you that you would not seek another husband besides me and not to give your virginity or holy Eve-like chastity to any deceiving serpent but only to me, your Adam. For what you had secreted in you was meant only for me, your God-given husband.

For this reason, I am filled with wrath for you, for you have all defiled yourselves and joined yourselves with cursed demons everywhere and I can have patience with you no longer. Only because of your need for salvation will I change my curse upon you but your husbands and children will eternally be cursed of me, and them, I will wipe off the face of the earth.

But you, I'll again receive eternally, as wives, so as not to gratify this evil spirit of Satan, or to say, Simon Rudakoff and Maxim Plenin and Vasili Sikitin, for I remember that you were my eternal wives and concubines, like King Solomon within his worldwide kingdom. Although it is very repugnant and defiling this, your devilish evil, in which you, in my absence, allowed demons to be delivered into you, but I will clean all of this with the sword and fire, off of your outer man, but inwardly I will apply my own salve and heal you down there. Then, in the wrath of my spirit, for your defilement of me, through your demon-possessed adultery, I'll give you all different names¦not good names but perverted and even foul ones.

First, Stenkoo, I will name Idessa, in that she, for the longest time, in my absence, was compelled to lie entirely [under the demon] for the sake of his demonic adultery.

And likewise, Varookhoo, I will name Akhvatoosya, in that she, in her own desire, because of her own adultery, stretched herself fully naked, completely for the demon.

Leksookhoo, I will name Pikhtoosya, in that she disobeyed me and found for herself, for the sake of powerful adultery, right to the very bottom, the pushy demon.

Doonookhoo, I will name Nakhmanisa, in that she, without my permission, the swine, stretched her ass willfully, right onto the demon.

Vasookhoo, I will name Akhtanisa, in that she, in carnal adultery, fell in love, willfully, directly with the demon.

Manookhoo, I will name Zhamelyoosya, in that she, willfully, adulterously, allowed [into herself] the hot demon.

Groonyookhoo, I will name Pertagoosya, in that she, not of her own initiative, with the love of her flogged ass lifted [it] up for adultery for a fat demon. All of you equally, bypassed me and strongly defiled yourselves in this eternal demonic adultery.

For this reason, you are not worthy to receive, with me, the primary glory in Israel and to be called with the holy seven names, according to the count of the seven spirits of God, which had been appointed to you by me before the creation of the world.

Verily, these names will be given to my other new wives who are undefiled virgins, but you, I appoint now to only please me in physical union, or to more directly say, with such pumping of your much-used, broken women's bellies.

The children I will begat through you will be everlastingly blessed, as David did to his wife when she returned home to him. But if any of you will not submit to me or have my children, then those, right now, together with their demon-husbands, I'll kill and I'll do the same thing with all those blasphemers and adulterers against this true spirit and those who hate me, the king of the world, like Simon and Levin, because of their sister, Denya, or like King David, because of his wife, Michal, or maybe even more harshly, as in David's 100th Psalm: 'For these adulterers, with others' wives, always have judgment of death placed on them by God Himself*.' For as the holy Apostle Paul said, 'a woman is tied to her living husband, by the law, until his death and only then can she be joined to another.`

And now, because of you and what you've done, I must again, a second time, choose out seven new wives, all chosen, undefiled virgins, which, for eternity, will not know the bed of another husband but me. And so I, their new husband, Youlia, will place them over you like mistresses and queens according to the Psalm in which David sings about presenting a queen on your right, in luxurious raiment, and they will lead forth the king of virgins unto her, unto the house of the king and under the crown of the glory of all Israel....and immortality for all of us for 1000 years.

And so I, in my day, with the aid of the Holy Spirit and the will of my God, will give all seven of these, my new wives, eternal holy names according to the title of their new heavenly names, by the number of the seven spirits of God that eternally abide upon me."

*Psalm 100:

"Make a joyful noise to THE LORD, all the earth! Serve THE LORD with gladness! Come into HIS PRESENCE with singing! Know that THE LORD, HE IS GOD! It is HE WHO made us, and we are HIS; we are HIS people, and the sheep of HIS pasture. Enter HIS gates with thanksgiving, and HIS courts with praise! Give thanks to HIM; bless HIS NAME! For THE LORD is good; HIS steadfast love endures forever, and HIS faithfulness to all generations."

IvanTheDonut · July 16, 2006

All I can say about this "what is a Christian" thread is this...If you guys posing as true Christians really are true Christians, then God must have been wrong when He stated that very few people would attain their salvation. I personally feel that you are in the category of 666 false christianity (stead, espresso...I mean coffee and a few others) with all your Jesus is God gibberish. Millions if not billions of moronic nutcases...I mean people around the world believe just as you do, and they are wrong too, so I guess you'll all be outside of Noah's Ark pounding on the door to be let in, but it'll be to late. You should know the story. I learned it before I was 5.

anonymous · July 16, 2006

QUOTE

All I can say about this "what is a Christian" thread...

Please NOTE this thread is entitled Spiritual Marriage Discussion, a split from the What is a Christian thread.

And rightfully so because BINGO! mgr and his new commandments, new enlightenment, new fiery tongues, new freedom, new gospel, new kingdom, new love, new names, new spirit, and spiritual marriages (plural) are not CHRISTian.

Obviously knowing the story of Noah's ark before age five isn't a substitute for discernment nor a prequalifier for being a CHRISTian.

fourvetta has yet to respond in this Spiritual Marriage Discussion thread.

coffee · July 17, 2006

.

Or the five foolish virgins wanting to enter the wedding chamber to which they were denied. - fourvetta, # 12 above

In the original Biblical text, the Greek words are translated literally as "the wedding festivities". Other versions of the Bible translate these words as "the wedding feast", which is certainly more in context than fourvetta's own ludicrous attempt to "quote" the Scriptures.

Rudometkin's heresy in the Spirit and Life book is compounded by Rudometkin`s own Biblical illiteracy. This is clearly evident in the resulting theology of Rudometkin's followers, who continue to misquote and take out of context what is written in the Scriptures.

The blatant disrespect and irreverence for what is written in the Bible among today's Rudometkinites is most apparent when they pay homage to Rudometkin's contradictions and deviations from Scripture as "spiritual" revelations, while the written Word of God that is recorded in the Bible is categorized by the Rudometkinites as "the dead letter".

From fourvetta:

But first, one must always sing and pray in the spirit and not according to the dead letter.

This is one who [is] born after the flesh, who is led by the book and the dead letter.

The second one born is after the spirit, who is wed by the love of inner harmony and not by the dead letter.

Faith is the hope for things which are not visible, not in the book, but in the heart.

So let the sinisteral gentile and the apostate molokan stay absorbed in the dead letter.

For the Bible based Christian to pray and sing, following the pattern which has been established in the Scriptures, IS "spiritual".

It is written in the Bible that "All Scripture is breathed out by God" (1 Timothy 3:16-17). Therefore the very Word which has been recorded in the Scriptures exists as the result of inspiration from the very Holy Spirit of God.

God is alive and living, and His written Word is equally living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, which is used to discern the thoughts and intentions of a person's heart. This is the context of the Scripture in Hebrews 4:12-13.

This Godly "spiritual discernment" comes from reading the written Word of God, as it is recorded in the Holy Scriptures.

It is written in the Bible that the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good (Romans 7:12). According to this Scripture, God's written Word is NOT some dead letter.

The Apostle Paul writes that "the law is spiritual" (Romans 7:13-25), and that it is not the law and the commandment which brings death to a person, but rather it is sin.

To be led by what is written in the Bible, by what fourvetta and the Rudometkinites refer to as "the book and the dead letter", is to be led to salvation and eternal life, according to the grace of God, through the knowledge and understanding of the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, based on what is recorded in the Bible.

The very purpose of the Scriptures is to lead and direct mankind away from sin, away from those activities and lifestyles that are the result from being born of the flesh, TO a relationship with God, based on what is written in the Bible, "for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work" (1 Timothy 3:16-17).

To minimize the Scriptures as if they were supposedly nothing but a bunch of "dead letters" is to deny the work of the Holy Spirit through what is written in the Bible. Needless to say, this is the major reason why all religious cults, including Rudometkin and his faithful, each end up following a different, "new" spirit, and in the case of the Rudometkinites, one which has led them into believing the heresy that is written in the Spirit and Life book.

For a man and woman to be wed according to what fourvetta and the Rudometkinites refer to as the "dead letter", is to be wed according to the very pattern for marriage as it is intended by God, according to what is written in the Bible. It is written that "two", meaning one man, and one woman, shall become "one" (Matthew 19:4-6).

This is what it means to follow the Biblical guideline established by God, as the Lord Jesus Christ stated, "Have you not read....", meaning to read and follow what is written in the very Scriptures, which fourvetta and the Rudometkinites claim to be nothing but a bunch of "dead letters".

According to what is written in the Bible, for Rudometkin to boast about taking for himself a "spiritual wife", as well as subsequent multiple wives, in addition to and other than the woman to whom he was already married, this is defined as unrepentant adultery.

The very "concept" for the term "spiritual marriage", in the context of what Rudometkin practiced, is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures, but rather is something that Rudometkin introduced to his followers based on his own personal Khlystical influences.

When Rudometkin and his faithful agree among themselves to accept and receive Rudometkin's "new revelation" about his "new pathway" to God, including Rudometkin's practice of "spiritual wifery", as something that is supposedly deeply "spiritual", there is no conscience on the part of the Rudometkinites to follow what is written in the Bible as the final authority, since according to Rudometkin's followers, the Scriptures have been relegated to a collection of mere "dead letters".

It is written in the Bible that "faith" is the assurance of things hoped for, and the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). It is also written in the Scriptures that this same "faith" comes from hearing, through the word of Christ (Romans 10:5-17).

This "word of Christ" is the gospel, as it is recorded in the written Word of God, in the Bible, which fourvetta and today's Rudometkinites consider to be nothing more than a collection of "dead letters".

May all Bible based Molokan Christians become better students of the Bible, so that when heresy like what is written by Rudometkin in the Spirit and Life book is presented as alleged "NEW" revelation, which Rudometkin claims is inspired by a NEW "spirit", those who are knowledgeable about what is written in the Bible can then expose Rudometkin's false teachings, and in the process, continue to reveal the spirit of deception that is so prevalent among those who are the political elders and church leaders in today`s Molokan churches.

.

seeking_truth_1 · July 17, 2006

Nice rant fourvetta JR...Noahs Ark, 666 false christians, moronic nutcases...???

poops called you to put down your arrogance and pride and discuss, yet here you are again spouting off with no basis other than your opinions

You, just like fourvetta

1) mis-quote Scripture in an attempt to "prove" your point

2) attempt to redirect dialogs in an effort to avoid explaining your opinions

3) fail to use contextural scripture references to support any of your opinions

4) avoid topics completely when you cannot answer questions regarding your opinions

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1 NKJV)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14 NKJV)

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (1 Timothy 3:16 NKJV)

All of these passage appeared in the Latin Vulgate well before ANY "ecumenical 666 councils"

Try again

All I can say about this "what is a Christian" thread is this...If you guys posing as true Christians really are true Christians, then God must have been wrong when He stated that very few people would attain their salvation. I personally feel that you are in the category of 666 false christianity (stead, espresso...I mean coffee and a few others) with all your Jesus is God gibberish. Millions if not billions of moronic nutcases...I mean people around the world believe just as you do, and they are wrong too, so I guess you'll all be outside of Noah's Ark pounding on the door to be let in, but it'll be to late. You should know the story. I learned it before I was 5.

anonymous · August 4, 2006

fourvetta,

What seems to be the problem in responding to the question regarding your hero's spiritual marriages in light of your explanation of a spiritual marriage?

Too spiritual?

Why don't we try a couple of simple ones.

fourvetta
Post #2

The soul is Adam and the flesh is Eve. They are no longer two, but one. And the Spirit, who is God walks between the two.

fourvetta,

Was Adam flesh?

Was Eve a living being/soul?

fourvetta
Post #3

This being of course, the literal understanding of the spiritual marriage.

The first Adam and not the second.

And what is the allegorical, analogous, metaphorical, representative, symbolic understanding of the spiritual marriage?

The second Adam and not the first.

anonymous · August 4, 2006

QUOTE

Post #2

fourvetta

But when the sons of God began to mix with the daughters of men, God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such."

In other words, such were not and are no longer in the image of God.

fourvetta,

Are you saying that the sons of GOD were believers and the daughters of men were unbelievers, and when they married, they were no longer created in the image of GOD?

fourvetta · August 5, 2006

Post #2

fourvetta

But when the sons of God began to mix with the daughters of men, God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such."

In other words, such were not and are no longer in the image of God.

fourvetta,

Are you saying that the sons of GOD were believers and the daughters of men were unbelievers, and when they married, they were no longer created in the image of GOD?

The prosterity from such a union is not from a "spiritual" marriage.

What is the image of God, being that God is Spirit?

God said, "Let US make man in OUR image?

anonymous · August 6, 2006

QUOTE

fourvetta

The prosterity from such a union is not from a "spiritual" marriage.

What is the image of God, being that God is Spirit?

God said, "Let US make man in OUR image?

fourvetta,

You referenced Genesis 6:2 wherein the sons of GOD married the daughters of men to further illustrate your explanation of a "spiritual" marriage which you defined as:

"The soul is Adam and the flesh is Eve. They are no longer two, but one. And the Spirit, who is God walks between the two." (Spiritual Marriage Discussion, Post #2)

And your conclusion regarding these marriages:

QUOTE

"In other words, such were not and are no longer in the image of God.

Prior to discussing the "posterity" from such a union, and to avoid a misunderstanding of what you are attempting to convey, clarification must be made as to the identification of the sons of GOD and the daughters of men in Genesis 6:2 since you have chosen this passage to demonstrate an "unspiritual" marriage.

Again,

Are you saying, or implying, that the sons of GOD were believers and the daughters of men were unbelievers, and when they "mixed" or married, they were no longer created in the image of GOD?

Unfortunately, because your track record is such that an honest, truthful answer is not in keeping with your character, your testimony is inadmissible as credible, thus the question must be answered in your behalf.

Based on your conclusion regarding Genesis 6:2, there is no other option for your answer.

Another question for you, fourvetta, an exponent of "coming out of the book," i.e., THE HOLY SCRIPTURES to be "led by the spirit."

Where did you learn that GOD IS SPIRIT?

Once again, your reputation precludes you from giving an honest, truthful testimony, therefore, the question must again be answered in your behalf.

It is written in THE HOLY SCRIPTURES:

"JESUS said to her,.....GOD IS SPIRIT, and those who worship HIM must worship HIM in spirit and truth." (John 4:24)

THE LORD.......GOD`S identity and character is revealed in and through HIS WORD(S), written and INCARNATE, as well as in HIS material creation, including the first humans, Adam and Eve, created by THE ONE GOD, WHO IS SPIRIT, in HIS IMAGE, as it is written in THE HOLY SCRIPTURES:

"Then GOD said, ˜Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

So GOD created man in HIS own image; in the image of GOD HE created him, male and female HE created them.

Then GOD blessed them, and GOD said to them, ˜Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." (Genesis 1:26-28)

WHO is the US and OUR in the above text?

Apostle John sheds LIGHT on the subject.

"In the beginning was THE WORD, and THE WORD was with GOD, and THE WORD was GOD. All things were made through HIM, and without HIM nothing was made that was made.

In HIM was life*, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

There was a man sent from GOD, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of THE LIGHT, that all through him might believe. He was not THAT LIGHT, but was sent to bear witness of THAT LIGHT.

THAT was THE TRUE LIGHT which gives light to every man coming into the world. HE was in the world, and the world was made through HIM, and the world did not know HIM. HE came to HIS own, and HIS own did not receive HIM.

But as many as received HIM, to them HE gave the right to become children of GOD, to those who believe in HIS NAME: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.

And THE WORD became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld HIS glory, the glory as of the only begotten of THE FATHER, full of grace and truth.

John bore witness of HIM and cried out, saying, ˜This was HE of WHOM I said, ˜HE WHO comes after me is preferred before me, for HE was before me.`" (John 1:1-15)

*The same life breathed into the earthly, earthy lump of clay called Adam, as it is written in THE HOLY SCRIPTURES:

"And THE LORD GOD formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being/soul." (Genesis 2:7)

fourvetta,

WHO IS the HE, HIM, HIS, and HIS NAME in John 1:1-15?

(HINT: JESUS.)

On with life...

"And THE LORD GOD said, ˜It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.` Out of the ground THE LORD GOD formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

And THE LORD GOD caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and HE took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which THE LORD GOD had taken from [the] man HE made into a woman, and HE brought her to the man. And Adam said:

˜This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." (Genesis 2:18-23)

"And Adam called his wife`s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living." (Genesis 4:20)

Which brings us to another set of questions you will avoid giving truthful answer to so as not to compromise your "explanation" of a "spiritual" marriage.

Was Adam flesh?

Please read Genesis 2:21-24 paying particular attention to the bolded terms in verses 21 and 23.

"And THE LORD GOD caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and HE took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which THE LORD GOD had taken from [the] man HE made into a woman, and HE brought her to the man.

And Adam said: ˜This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

What does the written WORD(S) of GOD aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES tell you about Adam, fourvetta? Was Adam flesh?

ANSWER: Yes.

Was Eve a living being/soul?

Please read Genesis 2:22-23 again.

"Then the rib which THE LORD GOD had taken from [the] man HE made into a woman, and HE brought her to the man.

And Adam said: ˜This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

And Genesis 4:20.

"And Adam called his wife`s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living." (Genesis 4:20)

What does the written WORD(S) of GOD aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES tell you about Eve, fourvetta? Was Eve a living being/soul?

ANSWER: Yes.

Now, what do these truths tell you about your statement, "The soul is Adam and the flesh is Eve," and more importantly, what do these truths tell you about which spirit led you to this conclusion?

HINT: It wasn`t THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHO IS GOD, WHO inspired and instructed men to record HIS WORD(S) aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, as witnessed in light of HIS TRUTH aka HIS WORD(S) aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.

RE: Believers and unbelievers joined in holy matrimony (marriage) and their offspring or "posterity"

It is written in THE HOLY SCRIPTURES:

"....If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him.

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the [believing] wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the [believing] husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But GOD has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife? (1 Corinthians 7:12-16)

Please NOTE Apostle Paul makes no distinction between "spiritual" and "unspiritual" marriage(s) in perfect harmony with his LORD and TEACHER, JESUS, THE INCARNATE WORD OF GOD WHO IS GOD, WHO makes no distinction between "spiritual" and "unspiritual" marriages:

"And HE answered and said to them, ˜Have you not read that HE WHO made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ˜For this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh`? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what GOD has joined together, let not man separate.`" (Matthew 19:4-6)

Finally, fourvetta, what do THE WORD(S) of GOD aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES aka GOD`S TRUTH, tell you about your missing the point of Genesis chapter 6 including verse 2, and your SCRIPTURALLY illiterate statement, "The prosterity from such a union is not from a 'spiritual' marriage?"

Need assistance in answering?

Just say.......THE WORD.

fourvetta · August 6, 2006

[
Finally, fourvetta, what do THE WORD(S) of GOD aka THE HOLY SCRIPTURES aka GOD`S TRUTH, tell you about your missing the point of Genesis chapter 6 including verse 2, and your SCRIPTURALLY illiterate statement, "The prosterity from such a union is not from a "spiritual" marriage?"

Need assistance in answering?

Just say.......THE WORD.

The scriptures as we know it did not exist when Adam and Eve were created. The Spoken Word of God created them both. The true or actual Word of God is the Spoken Word.

The literal meaning of Adam and Eve is "living earth". Living flesh made from dirt.

God created man. Male and female He created them.

Each living person within oneself is a Adam and Eve. Adam is the soul and Eve is the flesh. The two were made into one flesh. God's Spirit walking between the two.

The first Adam.

When God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such as these." He was referring to His Word shall not dwell in such a union for they are but flesh. Flesh without the Spirit of God.

Made in the image of men only and not the image of God.

God is not the image of sinfull man or you would say otherwise?

anonymous · August 7, 2006

QUOTE

Each living person within oneself is a Adam and Eve. Adam is the soul and Eve is the flesh. The two were made into one flesh. God's Spirit walking between the two.

The first Adam.

So a "spiritual" marriage is each living person who within himself/herself is an Adam and Eve, soul and flesh, which were made into one flesh, and GOD`S SPIRIT walks between the two?

fourvetta,

All jesting aside and in all seriousness, you need to seek medical/psychiatric help for serious mental problems.

fourvetta · August 7, 2006

Each living person within oneself is a Adam and Eve. Adam is the soul and Eve is the flesh. The two were made into one flesh. God's Spirit walking between the two.

The first Adam.

So a spiritual marriage is each living person who within himself/herself is an Adam and Eve, soul and flesh, which were made into one flesh, and GOD`S SPIRIT walks between the two?

fourvetta,

All jesting aside and in all seriousness, you need to seek medical/psychiatric help for serious mental problems.

One must understand the fall of man, how it came to be, and how sin entered into the world.

And the purpose of why Jesus Christ had to come in order to be saved by Him.

Canned Christianity will have none of this.

Eve, the flesh said to God after she had sinned, "The serpent, he caused me to sin." Adam, the soul, said to God after he had sinned, "The wife , which You gave me caused me to sin."

The flesh causes the soul to sin and by both denying sin before God, even blaming Him, both were cast out of the Paradise of God. Without access to the Tree of Life, which is the Holy Spirit.

John tells us this of denying sin;

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Last verse, by denying sin, as Adam and Eve did, His Word or His Spirit is not in us.

Without God's Spirit, one is simply soul and flesh. Open game for the devil.

This of course, is the first Adam and not the second.

One MUST be born again in order to enter into the kingdom of God. Not after the flesh, but a second time in His Word and in His Spirit.

The literal Word kills, but it is the Spirit which gives life.

fourvetta · August 7, 2006

There are those who hold to the chauvinistic view that only men are the image of God. God created man, male and female.

Women are also made in the image of God providing that God's Spirit or His Word dwells within them.

Just as God is Triune, He also made man, male and female, in His image. Male and female alike are triune; body, soul and Spirit.

coffee · August 7, 2006

.

Now that fourvetta has clarified how the Makcimisti believe, that Rudometkin's inner Adam was spiritually married to Rudometkin's inner Eve, with God walking between the two, how does this relate to the sons of God being married to the daughters of men, according to fourvetta's beginning explanation of the term, "spiritual marriage"?

The initial question asked by Anonymous was:

fourvetta,

Can you, an advocate of "coming out of the book (THE HOLY SCRIPTURES)," and presumably one who is "led by THE SPIRIT," explain to us what a "spiritual" marriage is?

Fourvetta's answer was:

The soul is Adam and the flesh is Eve. They are no longer two, but one.

And the Spirit, who is God walks between the two.

Have you not read in the scriptures?

But when the sons of God began to mix with the daughters of men, God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such."

In other words, such were not and are no longer in the image of God.

This being of course, the literal understanding of the spiritual marriage.

The first Adam and not the second.

How does fourvetta's understanding of Rudometkin's inner Adam and Rudometkin's inner Eve being spiritually married to each other relate to Rudometkin's marriage to his wife, Maria, the woman to whom he was legally married, and who Rudometkin referred to as the "queen of my court"?

From Rudometkin's writings, according to Danny *****************'s latest edition of his English translation of the Spirit and Life book:

As regards physical matters, marriage, although always open unto all, it must be performed by the hands of the prophet Emilian [Telegin] and my faithful church of Zion [Rudometkin's followers in the village of Nikitino], and my wife Maria Feodorevna, the queen of my court.... (Page 504, Book 10, Article 14, Verse 8)

How does fourvetta`s understanding of Rudometkin's inner Adam and inner Eve being spiritually married to each other relate to Rudometkin taking for himself the girl named Stenya, who Rudometkin referred to as "the wife of my spiritual marriage", as a second wife in addition to and other than his first wife, Maria?

Was it for this, that you forsook the beloved wife of my spiritual marriage....whose name is Cterafina....which signifies the love of my eternal union with her. (Page 270, Book 4, Article 2, Verse 7)

And that is why there suddenly and unexpectedly was revealed unto me and Cterafina a new unison....

I then, by the command of that selfsame Spirit of Truth, wedded with her personally unto eternity....

They immediately....began to torture in every way my holy matrimony with her, for they knew I would never leave her of my own accord.

None of this would have separated me from her, except that this selfsame satan sent me away from her on this long period of severance with no meetings. (Page 197, Book 1, Article 29, Verses 4-10)

Does this mean that Rudometkin viewed himself to be a son of God, but that Maria was only a daughter of men? If so, does this mean that according to fourvetta and the Rudometkinites, the marriage between Rudometkin and his first wife, Maria, was no longer in the image of God, which would mean that Rudometkin was then free to take for himself someone else in "holy matrimony"?

But when the sons of God began to mix with the daughters of men, God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such."

In other words, such were not and are no longer in the image of God.

Keeping in mind fourvetta's interpretation of the internal "spiritual marriage", which would be Rudometkin's inner Adam being married to Rudometkin's inner Eve, with God walking between the two....

....what does this have to do with Rudometkin's selection of Stenya, in addition to all of the other choice, pure, chaste virgins in the village of Nikitino, to be his wives, the result of his "spiritual marriages" to them?

And this is why I then first personally founded my spiritual marriage directly with all the chaste virgins [plural, as in polygamy] having the flaming holy love.... (Page 212, Book 2, Article 5, Verse 3)

Fourvetta began his explanation of a "spiritual marriage" with an illustration of an external union, the union that exists between a physical man and a physical woman....meaning marriages involving sons of God (believers in Yahweh) together with daughters of men (unbelievers).

Now, fourvetta's interpretation has changed to where the inner person who is "born again" is now supposedly married spiritually within himself / herself, the inner Adam married to the inner Eve, with God walking between the two?!!?

How does this explain Rudometkin's Khlystical practice of taking for himself "spiritual wives", in addition to and other than his first wife, Maria, the woman to whom he was already legally married?

.

coffee · August 8, 2006

.

From fourvetta:

There are sons and daughters of God and there are sons and daughters of men.

In the same household there are two vessels. One a vessel of honor and a vessel of dishonor. Honorable matrimony and dishonorable matrimony.

Because of the mixture of the two, God destroyed the first world.

The sons of men continued after the flood through Ham. The seed cursed by God.

Likewise the seed blessed by God, the sons of God continued though Shem. It is through this bloodline that Christ was born. Read Luke 3

Anonymous asked the question:

fourvetta,

Are you saying that the sons of GOD were believers and the daughters of men were unbelievers, and when they married, they were no longer created in the image of GOD?

Fourvetta's answer:

The prosterity from such a union is not from a "spiritual" marriage.

When God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such as these." He was referring to His Word shall not dwell in such a union for they are but flesh. Flesh without the Spirit of God.

From the Bible:

The genealogy of Jesus Christ:

Abraham was the father of Isaac....and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse, and Jesse the father of David the king. (Matthew 1:2-16)

Ruth was a Maobite, one of those "daughters of men" that fourvetta mentioned. Ruth married Boaz, one of those "sons of God" that fourvetta had mentioned, and together, the posterity they left was a son named Obed, who was King David's grandfather.

Ruth was King David's great grandmother. Kind David is identified in the Bible as a man after God's own heart.

First, fourvetta states that the "posterity", or the offspring and future generations that result from a union between one of the "sons of God" and one of the "daughters of men", is not from a spiritual marriage....

But when the sons of God began to mix with the daughters of men, God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such."

In other words, such were not and are no longer in the image of God.

Then, fourvetta turns around and states that the bloodline of the Lord Jesus Christ is "blessed"....

Likewise the seed blessed by God, the sons of God continued though Shem. It is through this bloodline that Christ was born. Read Luke 3

This "bloodline" includes Ruth, the Moabite, one of those "daughters of men" who as fourvetta claims, "because of the mixture of the two", God supposedly sent the flood, during the days of Noah, to destroy the world.

According to fourvetta then, God's Spirit did not dwell with Boaz and Ruth, because according to fourvetta, God's Word shall not dwell in such a union, for they were only flesh, without the Spirit of God.

Imagine that....according to fourvetta, King David, and subsequently the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, were the posterity of a union between two people who were without the Spirit of God.

.

fourvetta · August 9, 2006

Abraham was the father of Isaac....and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse, and Jesse the father of David the king. (Matthew 1:2-16)

Ruth was a Maobite, one of those "daughters of men" that fourvetta mentioned. Ruth married Boaz, one of those "sons of God" that fourvetta had mentioned, and together, the posterity they left was a son named Obed, who was King David's grandfather.

Ruth was King David's great grandmother. Kind David is identified in the Bible as a man after God's own heart.

First, fourvetta states that the "posterity", or the offspring and future generations that result from a union between one of the "sons of God" and one of the "daughters of men", is not from a spiritual marriage....

You forgot to mention Rahab the prostitute. Also in the lineage of Jesus Christ.

When the Word of God came to her, she welcomed it into her house.

You just don't get it, do you?

A man or womam who recieves the Word of God with gladness is a son or daughter of God.

By faith it is impossible to be saved.

The ones who don't are "left Behind" to become a son or daughter of men or satan to put it better.

Again, by the spiritual union or inner harmony with the Word of God, one is saved and becomes one with Him.

Remember, the Word of God is God?

Christ said, speaking to the pharisees and the scribes, "Tax collectors and prostitutes will enter the kingdom of God before you will."

They did not recieve the Word of God with gladness. Therefore they could not become one with Him. But Christ did and He was One with God.

Christ said, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father."

All of God's elect are One with God. If one does not have the Spirit of God, also called the Word of God within him, he is not of Him.

coffee · August 9, 2006

.

Regarding:

You forgot to mention Rahab the prostitute. Also in the lineage of Jesus Christ.

There is nothing written in the Bible to confirm that the woman named Rahab, who was the wife of Salmon in the lineage of Jesus, was the same woman as Rahab the prostitute. This is a conclusion that many have made, but the Scriptures are not specific with regard to whether or not Boaz's mother was indeed Rahab the prostitute. To make the assumption that Rahab the prostitute was the only woman to have ever had that particular name during Old Testament times is absurd.

Regarding:

You just don't get it, do you?

A man or womam who recieves the Word of God with gladness is a son or daughter of God.

By faith it is impossible to be saved.

The ones who don't are "left Behind" to become a son or daughter of men or satan to put it better.

Again, by the spiritual union or inner harmony with the Word of God, one is saved and becomes one with Him.

Remember, the Word of God is God?

Christ said, speaking to the pharisees and the scribes, "Tax collectors and prostitutes will enter the kingdom of God before you will."

They did not recieve the Word of God with gladness. Therefore they could not become one with Him. But Christ did and He was One with God.

Christ said, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father."

All of God's elect are One with God. If one does not have the Spirit of God, also called the Word of God within him, he is not of Him.

All of which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the lame attempt to explain what a "spiritual marriage" is, in the context of what Rudometkin practiced among his followers in Russia.

There are sons and daughters of God and there are sons and daughters of men.

In the same household there are two vessels. One a vessel of honor and a vessel of dishonor. Honorable matrimony and dishonorable matrimony.

Because of the mixture of the two, God destroyed the first world.

Keep in mind that the question about "spiritual marriage" has been asked specifically in the context of what is written in the Spirit and Life book about what Rudometkin practiced among his followers.

Given the above understanding and explanation, we are expected to believe that supposedly because of marriages involving sons of God with daughters of men, which allegedly resulted in "dishonorable matrimony", and in marriages that were not considered "spiritual, God supposedly destroyed the first world.

But when the sons of God began to mix with the daughters of men, God said, "My Spirit shall not dwell with such."

In other words, such were not and are no longer in the image of God.

This still does not explain the Khlystical custom of what Rudometkin practiced, when he admittedly took for himself multiple "spiritual wives", in addition to his first wife named Maria.

From Rudometkin's writings, according to Danny *****************'s latest edition of his English translation of the Spirit and Life book:

As regards physical matters, marriage, although always open unto all, it must be performed by the hands of the prophet Emilian [Telegin] and my faithful church of Zion [Rudometkin's followers in the village of Nikitino], and my wife Maria Feodorevna, the queen of my court.... (Page 504, Book 10, Article 14, Verse 8)

Was it for this, that you forsook the beloved wife of my spiritual marriage....whose name is Cterafina....which signifies the love of my eternal union with her. (Page 270, Book 4, Article 2, Verse 7)

And that is why there suddenly and unexpectedly was revealed unto me and Cterafina a new unison....

I then, by the command of that selfsame Spirit of Truth, wedded with her personally unto eternity....

They immediately....began to torture in every way my holy matrimony with her, for they knew I would never leave her of my own accord.

None of this would have separated me from her except that this selfsame satan sent me away from her on this long period of severance with no meetings. (Page 197, Book 1, Article 29, Verses 4-10)

And this is why I then first personally founded my spiritual marriage directly with all the chaste virgins [plural, as in polygamy] having the flaming holy love.... (Page 212, Book 2, Article 5, Verse 3)

I am sure the readers are very entertained with hearing the fable about how Rudometkin's inner Adam was married to Rudometkin's inner Eve, thereby creating an internal "spiritual marriage", with God walking between the two....

....and I am relatively certain that the readers are intrigued as they are presented with the theory about how one is "saved" supposedly because of the spiritual union or inner harmony with the Word of God, when according to what is written in the Bible, salvation is simply given by God as a gift of grace, which culminated in Christ's sacrifice and death on the cross....

....but all of that still does not explain where the concept of a "spiritual marriage" is found written in the Scriptures....

....nor does it explain where or how the idea of a "spiritual marriage" even originated, as opposed to an "ordinary", or "traditional", or "normal" union that is considered "holy matrimony", according to what is written in the Bible....

....nor does it explain the difference between Rudometkin's marriage to Maria, versus Rudometkin's "holy matrimony" with Stenya....

....nor does it explain the reason why Rudometkin decided to take for himself a "wife" of his "spiritual marriage", in the person of Stenya, when he was already married to his first "wife", named Maria...

....nor does it explain the context of Rudometkin's "new unison" with Stenya, or his "spiritual marriage" with all of the "chaste virgins"....

....nor does it explain the context of what Rudometkin practiced among his followers, which was simply a replication of the polygamy and adultery that Rudometkin inherited from his Khlysty forefathers, under the guise of Khlystical "spiritual wifery".

.

fourvetta · August 10, 2006

To make the assumption that Rahab the prostitute was the only woman to have ever had that particular name during Old Testament times is absurd.

The same thing can be said about any other name in the lineage of Jesus Christ.

O' ye of little faith.

A sceptic cannot be saved by faith.

So you must try to obtain it by the law. Which you can't.

Rahab was considered by God righteous. She is mentioned a number of times in the bible as a heroin of faith.

It is from the lineage of faith that Christ was born.

Remember. Not by works of the law, not by lineage, but according to the manner of Melchizedek.

If one is not from the lineage of faith, then he is of the lineage of the law.

By the law, one will then persecute the one born by faith.

By the law the prophets were killed, including the Lord Jesus Christ.

To bypass this the only way is to divorce the matrimony where no promise is made.

Or, be guilty of the blood of all the prophets from the beginning.

EGK · August 10, 2006

I think we all wonder where this idea of a spiritual marriage came from. The neighboring people to the Molokans in Tambov and in the Caucusus were the Doukhobors and to take a look at their history may show us something of our own. The Doukhobor leadership was passed along from Kolesnikoff, Probirohin and to Kapoustin. After the death of Kapoustin the office of "Christ" was passed on to his son, Kapoustin assured his people that the soul of Christ had the power of uniting itself in the body of his son. This heir was Vasili Kalmikoff and his heir was Ilarion Kalmikoff. Ilarion Kalmikoff died after the Doukhobors Migrated to the Milky Waters area. "It is said that after Kapoustin's death, the Doukhobors were in such a hurry to raise up seed to inherit his divinity, that they supplied Ilarion, when he was scarcely sixteen, with a succession of six young women by whom he might have offspring." Ilarion's successor was Peter Kalmikoff and his wife was Loukeriya Kalmikoff. (Read the history of I G Samarin) Peter died when he was still a young man and his wife became the leader of the Doukhobors. Remember that the mass of people were educated in the absurd tradition of the supernatural belief in the power of the Kalmikoff's. The doukhobors needed a God-man to rule over them to replace Loukeriya when she passed on. Loukeriya provided this in the person of Peter Verigin. "Anastasya, submissively announced that her son Peter was begotten, not by her husband Vasily Verigin, but by Peter Kalmikoff, who, to the great joy of all her family, had honored her by his holy attentions at the time of his last visit to Slaviyanki; (Sound familiar) and that this great secret was well known to Loukeriya Kalmikova, who had awaited Peter's coming of age in order, during her own lifetime, to hand over to him the inheritance of his ancestors."

If one really is interested in learning the history of our people and the reasons we do as we do than you must know and study the history of our people and the times and conditions in which they lived. Starting with the Raskol in the 1700's to today, outside influences or the influences of a person with a strong personality can and do affect the beliefs of those who are not founded firmly upon the foundation of the word of God, the Bible. I cannot find much in our Molokan way of doing things that some other person or group is or has not done before. If I am wrong then show me something that is unique and totally new which MGR brought into this world.

Quotes from: A Peculiar People, by Aylmer Maude, 1904

EGK

fourvetta · August 10, 2006

I think we all wonder where this idea of a spiritual marriage came from.

If I am wrong then show me something that is unique and totally new which MGR brought into this world.

EGK

You all missed the point.

The barren woman woman will have many more children than she which has a husband.

steadfast · August 10, 2006

I think we all wonder where this idea of a spiritual marriage came from.

Russian Mormons - Historical Research on 19th Century Russian SectRussian Mormonism: Geographic and Historical Foundations. This paper incorporates the latest research on Russian Mormonism and is ... ***ttcor*er.***

EGK · August 10, 2006

I think we all wonder where this idea of a spiritual marriage came from.

If I am wrong then show me something that is unique and totally new which MGR brought into this world.

EGK

You all missed the point.

The barren woman woman will have many more children than she which has a husband.

Fourvetta:

I may have missed the point, but what I was trying to explain was what others near to our Molokan people have done in the name of "Spiritual Marriage". I am wondering if you are mixing up marriage and meaning some kind of rebirth. What I get the feeling that you are trying to describe is being, "Born Again" but calling it "Spiritual Marriage". In your statement of the "Barren Woman" it seems to me you are talking more about birth than marriage here. Can you please explain this statement more and where it is referenced from?

Thanks, EGK

fourvetta · August 12, 2006

Fourvetta:

I may have missed the point, but what I was trying to explain was what others near to our Molokan people have done in the name of "Spiritual Marriage". I am wondering if you are mixing up marriage and meaning some kind of rebirth. What I get the feeling that you are trying to describe is being, "Born Again" but calling it "Spiritual Marriage". In your statement of the "Barren Woman" it seems to me you are talking more about birth than marriage here. Can you please explain this statement more and where it is referenced from?

Thanks, EGK

I am not mixing it up. Being raised from the dead, being born again and spiritual marrage are an alegory for the same thing.

Is it not written in the scriptures, that among the witness of two or three, the truth shall be established?

So now it cannot be said, "I did not know."

steadfast · August 12, 2006

I am not mixing it up. Being raised from the dead, being born again and spiritual marrage are an alegory for the same thing.

Fourvetta, Your definitions of, being born again, being raised from the dead and spiritual marriage being the same, by nature these are all spiritual events.

Why then, did MGR become physical with his new teaching? Galatians 1.6 says there are NO NEW Gospels. Please explain using contextual scripture if you can?

seeking_truth_1 · August 12, 2006

Again fourvetta as most occultists (including Satan) twist Scripture to try and make their own un-Biblical points

Satan did it with Jesus in the wilderness and now fourvetta is doing it here on the internet

Fourvetta uses a passage from Matthew 18 to establish their views and acceptance of polygamy

The passage in Matthew 18 deals with church discipline and how Christians are to deal with other Christians

Here is the passage (in context)

15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

16 "But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ˜by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.`

17 "And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

18 "Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19 "Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven.

20 "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them." (Matthew 18:15-20 NKJV)

If you took verses 19 & 20 out of the context of the passage if would appear that God will only honor prayers when 2 or 3 are gathered, which as you well know is not the case

If that were the case then all those who were alone that cried out in Jesus` Name for Salvation during their last few seconds on earth before entering into eternity would not be heard by God

You see how dangerous it can be when you don`t study the Scripture in context and in it`s entirely.

You end up with the cult of molokanism (group 2 & group 3 style)

Your "leader" mgr, as did Rasputin, advocated polygamy as confirmed by his own pornographic writings (bumping/grinding and all)

You should be ashamed trying to deny these writings by "spinning" the "it`s spiritual, not literal` garbage

Get a grip fourvetta¦

I am not mixing it up. Being raised from the dead, being born again and spiritual marrage are an alegory for the same thing.

Is it not written in the scriptures, that among the witness of two or three, the truth shall be established?

So now it cannot be said, "I did not know."

fourvetta · August 12, 2006

Fourvetta, Your definitions of, being born again, being raised from the dead and spiritual marriage being the same, by nature these are all spiritual events.

Why then, did MGR become physical with his new teaching? Galatians 1.6 says there are NO NEW Gospels. Please explain using contextual scripture if you can?

Physical or spiritual, that is the question.

Christ said, "I go and prepare a place for you and when I have prepared a place for you, I shall come and take you with Me that where I am you may be also."

And come again Christ did. And no one recognized His Everlasting Gospel, nor the power of His Resurrection.

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants”things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

So as seeking said, satan twists scripture to serve His purpose. The final most eloquent anti-christ. All those who live in the earth shall serve him.

Edited August 12, 2006 by fourvetta

steadfast · August 13, 2006

Fourvetta, you still haven't answered my question. Why are you trying to justify MGR having two physical wives with the spiritual events of, being born again, being raised from the dead or spiritual marriage. Please stay focused on my question by not drifting off on another tangent.

steadfast · August 13, 2006

Physical or spiritual, that is the question.

Fouvetta, How can being born again and spiritual marriage be physical events? An unprincipled/reprobate mind can justify many things. Please reply with contextual scripture, not opinion.

fourvetta · August 13, 2006

Fouvetta, How can being born again and spiritual marriage be physical events? An unprincipled/reprobate mind can justify many things. Please reply with contextual scripture, not opinion.

The being that you are skilled in the word and not of a reprobate mind, what is the meaning of the two wives?

Both Abraham and Jacob had two wives.

What is the meaning of the first shall be last and the last shall be first in the kingdom of God?

Note that the scriptures tell us that those who unskilled in the Word of God are still in the milk and are in need of a teacher.

We are also told to not have any teacher who is not baptized in the Holy Spirit and Fire. Such are a waste of valuable time and precious air.

The stage is yours.

steadfast · August 13, 2006

Fouvetta, How can being born again and spiritual marriage be physical events? An unprincipled/reprobate mind can justify many things. Please reply with contextual scripture, not opinion.

The being that you are skilled in the word and not of a reprobate mind, what is the meaning of the two wives?

Both Abraham and Jacob had two wives.

What is the meaning of the first shall be last and the last shall be first in the kingdom of God?

Note that the scriptures tell us that those who unskilled in the Word of God are still in the milk and are in need of a teacher.

We are also told to not have any teacher who is not baptized in the Holy Spirit and Fire. Such are a waste of valuable time and precious air.

The stage is yours.

Obviously you have no scriptures that will prove Maxim's teachings, or you would have submitted them. You still rely on your opinion, even when asked not to. You answer with out of context scripture and answer questions with more questions, all of which are typical for group 3, whos beliefs are stinki pu...... So lets make our churches God approved by teaching only what "God the Son" taught to His Disciples read 2 John 1.9

fourvetta · August 14, 2006

Obviously you have no scriptures that will prove Maxim's teachings, or you would have submitted them. You still rely on your opinion, even when asked not to. You answer with out of context scripture and answer questions with more questions, all of which are typical for group 3, whos beliefs are stinki pu...... So lets make our churches God approved by teaching only what "God the Son" taught to His Disciples read 2 John 1.9

It is not my opinion. It is the message of the Gospel.

The Gospel is not the four books of the New Testament, but rather it is the new message of Christ which is Everlasting. In other words it continues.

The Apostles were told by Christ to dust off their shoes to the one who not accept their message or into their house.

The message of the Gospel is to leave the elementary doctrines of Christ and to continue to perfection.

You asked for contextual scriptures. Here they are.

Again not my opinion. But first, the scriptures tell us that if we are to hear Christ's voice we are not to harden our hearts.

Christ says that If one hears His voice and believes, is the one who has Eternal life.

The following scriptures are from John chapter 5

24"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

In the same chapter of John in context to coming out of the scriptures to having life in Christ.

37.And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.

39.You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,

40.yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

I suppose that the church you go to has not "heard" the message of the Gospel?

Again, the message of the Gospel through the teachings of the Apostles.

Hebrews chapter 6.

1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this we will do if God permits.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;

8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

The message of the Gospel, preached throughout the ages is to come out of the letter which kills and to come to the Spirit which gives life.

The one who did not hear the message did not cross over from death unto eternal life.

fourvetta · August 14, 2006

Again the message of the Gospel preached by the Apostles in Hebrews chapter 3

18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?

19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief

So now we can see that the one who cannot enter God's rest is the one who is disobedient to God's Word by his unbelief.

Continuing on in chapter 4

1.Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

2.For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith.

3.Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

"So I declared on oath in my anger, They shall never enter my rest.' " And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world.

4.For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work."

5.And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest."

6.It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7.Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:

"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."

So now, the unbelieving gentile is the same as the unbelieving jew. Outside of the kingdom of God.

Christ compares it to be, basically in hell.

All these things are an example to us now, to not follow in the example of the unbeliever but after the believer.

After the example of Noah, Lot, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses ect.......

Whoes God was the God of the Living and not of the dead.

9.There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

10.for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.

11.Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

Or we can follow the unbeliever, the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorah. Even Lot's wife.

Or the inhabitants during the time of Noah. Noah and Lot entered into the wedding chamber while it was called, "Today"

fourvetta · August 15, 2006

The five foolish virgins did not bring thier oil with them and went out at midnight to buy thier oil. To Late! All the stores were closed at that time.

At the time when they went out to buy their oil, is when the bridegroom came.

After the doors were closed , they wished they have entered after having beened denied entrance by the Lord.

The five wise virgins were ready when the bridegroom came having their oil with them.

Just as after Noah and his family entered, the doors were closed and then those who did not enter into the wedding chamber wished they had entered.

The Lord replies to such, "Go and buy your own oil. When it was a free gift, you despised it. Now go and earn it."

John the Baptist, said likewise to the scribes and Pharisees, "Go and learn what it means, I will have mercy and not sacrifice."

Edited August 15, 2006 by fourvetta

fourvetta · August 15, 2006

Likewise, at the time when Esau went out to seek an offering to please his father is when Jacob stole his birthright. He could not please his father because he despised his birthright.

The Lord said in His Wrath, "If they do not enter into My Rest of their own accord, I will not allow them to enter."

Out of 600,000 men that left Egypt only two entered into God's Rest.

Today, the King of Spirits is the Gate and the entrance unto the path of the land of the living. The thousand year kingdom of Christ on earth. To one can come to Christ but through him.

Outside the camp are the unbeliever, the fearfull, the murderers, fornicators and adulterers and all those who love a lie.

Edited August 15, 2006 by fourvetta

EGK · August 15, 2006

Likewise, at the time when Esau went out to seek an offering to please his father is when Jacob stole his birthright. He could not please his father because he despised his birthright.

The Lord said in His Wrath, "If they do not enter into My Rest of their own accord, I will not allow them to enter."

Out of 600,000 men that left Egypt only two entered into God's Rest.

Today, the King of Spirits is the Gate and the entrance unto the path of the land of the living. The thousand year kingdom of Christ on earth. To one can come to Christ but through him.

Outside the camp are the unbeliever, the fearfull, the murderers, fornicators and adulterers and all those who love a lie.

I hope and pray the readers of this forum read and see the true difference between the beliefs of followers of MGR and of true Christian Molokans.

"Today, the King of Spirits is the Gate and the entrance unto the path of the land of the living. The thousand year kingdom of Christ on earth. To (NO)one come to Christ but through him." (FV)

But Jesus Christ teaches: "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the father but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my father also: and henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. (John 14; 6-7)

Can you not see the difference and feel it to the bottom of your souls which is the proper and true path to follow. One leads to everlasting life the other to eternal condemnation. Choose wisely!!!!

EGK

steadfast · August 15, 2006

Natasha callink Boris Badenough, Fourvetta jumper moose is in front yard on knees praying to fire hydrant, please advise!

seeking_truth_1 · August 15, 2006

EGK:

Thank you for verbalizing my sentiments...

Group 2 & 3 "molokans" need to be corrected or removed, hence my function on this and other forums

I would love an opportunity to meet with you and discuss the retaking of the molokan Church for Jesus and boot the lie to the curb

However, it will cost you dearly in terms of familial and personal relationships

Are you ready ?

How say you?

fourvetta · August 16, 2006

I hope and pray the readers of this forum read and see the true difference between the beliefs of followers of MGR and of true Christian Molokans.

EGK

A true Christian is one who believes in the Spirit of Prophesy. One who does not believe in the Spirit of Prophesy is NOT a true Christian at all.

Christ said, "I am the Door. No one comes to the Father but through Me."

The King of Spirits is the Gate of Zion which leads to the Door, which in turn leads to the Father. Even before the Gate there are His Gate Keepers.

The thief comes in through the window to steal, but the Master of the house comes in through the Door. His sheep hear his voice and come to Him, but from a stranger they will flee.

fourvetta · August 16, 2006

A true Christian is one who is led by the Spirit and not the book. One who is wed in inner harmony with the Spirit of the Lord and not a letter.

Just as Christ is One with the Father. Such a person becomes a throne for the Spirit of Truth. Christ said, "He who loves Me is the one who keeps My Word. My Father will love him and We will come unto him and make our home with him."

This is the third face of God upon the earth. The Word of God made manifest in the flesh of men. Christ said, "Behold the Tabernacle of God is with men."

This is what God intended from the beginning.

On the opposite side of the coin.

"The one who does not keep My Word is the one who hates Me."

Such a person becomes a throne for the spirit of the abyss, the devil himself incarnate in the flesh. One who is wed in inner harmony and one in spirit with him.

Edited August 16, 2006 by fourvetta

steadfast · August 16, 2006

The King of Spirits is the Gate of Zion which leads to the Door, which in turn leads to the Father.

Fourvetta, Where did Jesus teach this to His Disciples, what spirit put this into your mind?

EGK · August 16, 2006

I hope and pray the readers of this forum read and see the true difference between the beliefs of followers of MGR and of true Christian Molokans.

EGK

A true Christian is one who believes in the Spirit of Prophesy. One who does not believe in the Spirit of Prophesy is NOT a true Christian at all.

Christ said, "I am the Door. No one comes to the Father but through Me."

The King of Spirits is the Gate of Zion which leads to the Door, which in turn leads to the Father. Even before the Gate there are His Gate Keepers.

The thief comes in through the window to steal, but the Master of the house comes in through the Door. His sheep hear his voice and come to Him, but from a stranger they will flee.

Do you not remember the story of the death and crucifiction of Jesus Christ?Was not the the veil of the temple rent when Jesus Christ was crucified? (Luke 23:24) Tell me why I need a" Gate", their is now no seperation between us and our God. We do not any longer need a high priest to pray through, for Christ death and resurection has abolished this need. You have been freed through Jesus Christ and you still do not know it!

EGK

coffee · August 16, 2006

.

In addition to the truth pointed out by EGk....

Do you not remember the story of the death and crucifiction of Jesus Christ?

Was not the the veil of the temple rent when Jesus Christ was crucified? (Luke 23:24)

Tell me why I need a" Gate", their is now no seperation between us and our God.

We do not any longer need a high priest to pray through, for Christ death and resurection has abolished this need.

You have been freed through Jesus Christ and you still do not know it!

EGK

....from the Bible:

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)

For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:11)

The perverted teaching from the Rudometkinites, that one must in some way acknowledge Rudometkin to be the alleged "king of spirits", who is supposedly some sort of "gate ?" through which and to whom one must "submit to" in order to approach the Lord Jesus Christ, is a byproduct of the heresy that is written in the Spirit and Life book.

From the Bible:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.

But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."

So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,

just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.

And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.

No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father." (John 10:1-18)

When using the illustration of a pen of sheep, the "gate" through which one must enter the sheepfold IS "the door". There is no such thing as an "ante" gate, through which one must pass in order to eventually gain access to the real gate, before entering the sheepfold.

According to what is written in the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ does not require a person to acknowledge some other "name" in addition to and other than the name of Jesus Christ, as any kind of alleged "gateway" to Him, be it Rudometkin, "king of spirits", king "yoo-l'iyah", or any other heresy written in the Sprit and Life book, which fourvetta and his fellow Makcimisti, together with all of their Rudometkinite elders, revere as sacred writings.

.

steadfast · August 16, 2006

Sainthood, Maxim the gatekeeper wants to be considered a Saint, look at Maxim's statements, sins forgiven through him, prayers going through him etc.

More Catholic connection. Yikes!

Are these the ways of our forefathers that we are to adhere to?

We sprinkle Holy water

We still sign the pattern of the cross don't we?

sadichka · August 16, 2006

Today, the King of Spirits is the Gate and the entrance unto the path of the land of the living. The thousand year kingdom of Christ on earth. To one can come to Christ but through him.

Hola FV,

I noticed that you have edited your post. This is the first time that I have read it. Can you explain the above quoted statement because I don't understand it. The last sentence especially.

Thanks, I have been at camp.

Sada

fourvetta · August 17, 2006

...from the Bible:

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)

Again, a classic example of a ritualistic Christian, by the letter and not the Spirit.

From the same bible, The words of Jesus Christ Himself.

17 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it."`

For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:11)

Exactly what the scripture says. Christ is the author and the finisher of our faith. The beginning and the end. All things were made by Him and for Him.

The Twelve Foundation Stones of the new city Jerusalem are the Twelve Apostles. The first foundation stone is Jasper. Christ said to Peter, "You are the Rock Jasper. Upon you I shall build My Church. To Peter were given the right to the keys of the kingdom of heaven. He could open the Door to others.

From the Bible:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.

But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."

One reading the scripture above carefully will find that the sheep actually hear the voice of the Gatekeeper. It is by them, that the sheep hear the voice of the Shepherd. Who does not enter by way of them, but some other way is a thief and a robber.

When using the illustration of a pen of sheep, the "gate" through which one must enter the sheepfold IS "the door". There is no such thing as an "ante" gate, through which one must pass in order to eventually gain access to the real gate, before entering the sheepfold.

According to what is written in the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ does not require a person to acknowledge some other "name" in addition to and other than the name of Jesus Christ, as any kind of alleged "gateway" to Him, be it Rudometkin, "king of spirits", king "yoo-l'iyah", or any other heresy written in the Sprit and Life book, which fourvetta and his fellow Makcimisti, together with all of their Rudometkinite elders, revere as sacred writings.

In the new city of Jerusalem there are Twelve Gates, three gates on all fours sides of the city. These are the Twelve King Priests by which MUST enter into the city. Nothing unclean shall ever enter the city.

These are NOT the Twelve Apostles. The Apostles are the Twelve Foundation Stones.

Like Coffee said, there is no other foundation that a man can build upon other then the one laid by Christ Himself. Christ is the builder of the House of God. Any other house is built upon sand.

It is Christ Himself who said,

12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

13 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."`

seeking_truth_1 · August 17, 2006

So what fourvetta is getting at is that mgr is either Christ or as the Khlyst believed one of the "christs" who act as intercessor between man and God :ohmy:

fourvetta · August 17, 2006

So what fourvetta is getting at is that mgr is either Christ or as the Khlyst believed one of the "christs" who act as intercessor between man and God

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Word of God and the Word of God came with a new name. Ignorance of the Word of God in NOT an excuse.

steadfast · August 17, 2006

So what fourvetta is getting at is that mgr is either Christ or as the Khlyst believed one of the "christs" who act as intercessor between man and God

Do you think the corruption of MGR's spirit was done in stages? Beginning with MGR wanting to be a spiritual community leader, then graduate to a minister, then leader of a sect, then the 3rd face, then Christ and finally God of the world. MGR does make all of these proclamations. Satan just lead MGR down the bunny trail, as he will with MGR's followers, leading them to self destruction. Nothing new under the sun, the Bible warns of this many times!

little koshka · August 17, 2006

Very interesting reading over the past couple of weeks...

I have a question regarding FV's manifestos - did you learn this stuff going to mainstream Molokan Sunday school and Sunday morning church? If not, where did you learn this stuff?

The Bible repeatedly warn us of this - why (again) do you quote the Bible and MGR's teachings together? The Bible and the S&L clearly do not mesh - they contradict each other.

So, according to FV, are Molokans supposed to "follow the spirit" (again - what spirit) and totally disregard what God has said?

If someone prophesies and tells the congregation to become thieves or to become adulterers or turn to cannibalism - is everyone supposed to jump on that band wagon just 'cause the "spirit" told them to? Aren't prophecies supposed to be from God? Yes, they are, and if they are from God they should agree or align with the Bible.

Why should anyone follow someone other than Jesus Christ?

I think not - that clearly goes against what the Bible says.

Nick Shubin · August 17, 2006

I don't think anyone will get a straight answer from fourvetta! He eludes to, dances around, but will not come out and say that he believes that mgr is christ, and that his life in 1800 russia was the second coming.

It's like he's got the cup of koolaid to his lips, but is affraid to drink it down.

seeking_truth_1 · August 17, 2006

Even more horrifying is that the group 2 molokans do not know Scripture to be able to combat this and group 1 molokans may know better but remain silent

Both may or may not believe some or any of this stuff, but will remain silent so all can play "nice -nice" sit and have pishki and chi and pretend that everything is OK

steadfast · August 17, 2006

Just go along with it, and don't make any waves. You live out your life then die, they will say nice things about you, they will recite Blahee Tvarrettes for you, then burry you at the Bandini cemetery, they will go home take showers, then back to church where they will jump in commemoration of your life long loyalty to God. They will say "What a beautiful funeral. At the pomnenki they got a blessing and a message from their dead relatives.

Now what could be wrong, with going along with all of that?

fourvetta · August 18, 2006

I have a question regarding FV's manifestos - did you learn this stuff going to mainstream Molokan Sunday school and Sunday morning church? If not, where did you learn this stuff?

In all the scriptures that lay upon the prestol in every Molokan Church around the world.

The Bible repeatedly warn us of this - why (again) do you quote the Bible and MGR's teachings together? The Bible and the S&L clearly do not mesh - they contradict each other

When Christ came the jews thought that He was teaching contrary to the teachings of the OT and Moses law. When actually He was fulfilling it.

So, according to FV, are Molokans supposed to "follow the spirit" (again - what spirit) and totally disregard what God has said?

If someone prophesies and tells the congregation to become thieves or to become adulterers or turn to cannibalism - is everyone supposed to jump on that band wagon just 'cause the "spirit" told them to? Aren't prophecies supposed to be from God? Yes, they are, and if they are from God they should agree or align with the Bible.

Not at all what I meant by following the Holy Spirit, but by following the inner teachings of the Spirit. As Christ said, "All will be taught by God. You shall have no need for someone to teach one another, for each shall know Me from the greatest to the least."

This is the new covenant of Jesus Christ is it not? His blood or better said as Spirit cleanses us from sin.

Why should anyone follow someone other than Jesus Christ?

I think not - that clearly goes against what the Bible says.

Christ said,

34.Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

35.And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

36.I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

By denying who Christ sends, one in turn denies Chist personified as that person. Christ said, "All things that you have done to My lesser brethren, you have done also to Me."

Not all are Christ"s lesser brethren, but only those who pick up their cross and follow after Him.

Paul tells us in Hebrews.

3 Remember the prisoners as if chained with them”those who are mistreated”since you yourselves are in the body also.

7 Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct.

I will follow such people. Not someone whoes faith has not been tested.

These are God's rulers whom God Himself placed in charge of His flock.

Apostle Paul in Romans 13 tells us to be mindfull of those who rule over us.

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.

4 For he is God`s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God`s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience` sake.

6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God`s ministers attending continually to this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

This is not speaking of Bush or Sadaam Hussein, but of God's ministers. And not preachers as in those who pray in church, but ministers. One who ministers to others. Something we as Molokans lack nowdays.

Whoever God has placed to minister, one should honor, not disrespect. He is God's minister for good, but also an avenger of God's wrath to those who despise God's authority.

As the scripture says above in verse 4.

"If you do evil be afraid, for He does not bear the Sword of God in vain."

A false teacher is easy to recognize. They despise God's authority and continually speak evil.

A little poison from a snake is enough to kill the whole body.

fourvetta · August 18, 2006

Just go along with it, and don't make any waves. You live out your life then die, they will say nice things about you, they will recite Blahee Tvarrettes for you, then burry you at the Bandini cemetery, they will go home take showers, then back to church where they will jump in commemoration of your life long loyalty to God. They will say "What a beautiful funeral. At the pomnenki they got a blessing and a message from their dead relatives.

Now what could be wrong, with going along with all of that?

Exactly what I am trying to say.

You just described to end of the one who lives by the letter and not the Spirit. Just prepay your plot now.

But Christ proved once and for all that the resurrection exists. Likewise the translation of the body.

steadfast · August 18, 2006

You just described to end of the one who lives by the letter and not the Spirit.

How were your deceased relatives burried, your living relatives must have lived by the letter?

Fourvetta the letter that you reject was brought by the Spirit that you accept. By rejecting the written word you are doubting the integrity of the only/Holy Spirit. ...."A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

The written word does not give life....Quote Fourvetta,...."It is the Spoken Word of God that gives life and not the written Word." (Molokans Are Trinitarians According To The S&L post # 10)

little koshka · August 18, 2006

FV Sez:

A false teacher is easy to recognize. They despise God's authority and continually speak evil.

A little poison from a snake is enough to kill the whole body.

Red flag? Hello? Anyone?

:135:

I think that sums things up.

FV - you are contradicting yourself when you say that..

Obviously what you have said totally mirrors MGR, the S&L, and anyone and everyone who follows that stuff (including yourself).

That is what it is (a snake) and that is what is happening (poisoning).

fourvetta · August 19, 2006

FV Sez:

A false teacher is easy to recognize. They despise God's authority and continually speak evil.

A little poison from a snake is enough to kill the whole body.

Red flag? Hello? Anyone?

I think that sums things up.

FV - you are contradicting yourself when you say that..

Obviously what you have said totally mirrors MGR, the S&L, and anyone and everyone who follows that stuff (including yourself).

That is what it is (a snake) and that is what is happening (poisoning).

Eve thought that the serpent was a messenger of God. It was through the spiritual union with him that produced a son called Cain. Cain was not a son of God, but a son of dishonorable matrimony.

Honorable and dishonorable matrimony was from the beginning.

coffee · August 20, 2006

.

....from the Bible:

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)

From fourvetta:

Again, a classic example of a ritualistic Christian, by the letter and not the Spirit.

The above comment by fourvetta is a typical response from someone who is a follower of Rudometkin's writings in the Spirit and Life book. It demonstrates how those steeped in heresy attempt to minimize what is written in the Bible, in order to perpetuate their false teachings. It is yet another display of irreverence for the Holy Scriptures as the very spoken Word of God, which has been preserved and written down for the posterity of all mankind.

The Scripture in Acts 4:12 illustrates the contrast between Biblical truth, that the Lord Jesus Christ is the ONLY ONE by Whom, and through Whom, salvation is given....

....versus what the Rudometkinites believe, that the Lord Jesus Christ alone is not enough, but some sort of acknowledgment and "recognition" needs to be given Rudometkin for his extra-Biblical, self proclaimed "involvement" in God's overall plan for the salvation of mankind, as is evident in fourvetta's following statements:

The King of Spirits is the Gate of Zion which leads to the Door, which in turn leads to the Father. Even before the Gate there are His Gate Keepers.

Today, the King of Spirits is the Gate and the entrance unto the path of the land of the living. The thousand year kingdom of Christ on earth. To one can come to Christ but through him.

[This is a spelling error made by fourvetta....fourvetta means to say "No one can come to Christ but through Rudometkin", who the Rudometkinites refer to by the title, "king of spirits".]

In other words, according to the heresy that is written in the Spirit and Life book, which the Rudometkinite elders and church leaders adhere to as their sacred "spiritual truth", in order for a person to receive the gift of salvation and eternal life from God, one must acknowledge and give recognition and honor to the name of Rudometkin, as some sort of alleged "gateway" to the Lord Jesus Christ.

From the Bible:

For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:11)

From fourvetta:

Exactly what the scripture says. Christ is the author and the finisher of our faith. The beginning and the end. All things were made by Him and for Him.

The Twelve Foundation Stones of the new city Jerusalem are the Twelve Apostles. The first foundation stone is Jasper. Christ said to Peter, "You are the Rock Jasper. Upon you I shall build My Church. To Peter were given the right to the keys of the kingdom of heaven. He could open the Door to others.

Not to be redundant, but Scripture twisting is the primary method used by heretics to perpetuate their false teaching. In this instance, the issue is further compounded by fourvetta's own Biblical illiteracy, which rivals that of Rudometkin himself.

First of all, the point being made by the Scripture in 1 Corinthians 3:11 is to proclaim the truth that Jesus Christ IS the foundation for what the Apostle Paul refers to as "God's building". In context, the Apostle Paul is addressing the subject of divisions between fellow believers within the Christian Church, and he refers to each follower of our Lord as the "temple of God"" wherein the Holy Spirit of God dwells.

Contrary to what fourvetta seems to want to believe, the Apostle Paul is NOT speaking about the heavenly, holy city of New Jerusalem. This is evident by the context of what is written in the Biblical text:

What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each.

I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth.

So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth.

He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor.

For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it.

For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? (1 Corinthians 3:5-16)

Secondly, fourvetta's attempt to supposedly "quote" the Scriptures would be laughable, if it were not so sad. Students of the Bible are able to discern the true Scriptural text by simply reading the written Word of God, without any embellishment from the heresy that is written in the Spirit and Life book, or any other additional, heretical, extra-Biblical teachings.

For instance, in reference to the Scripture in John 10:1-18....

When using the illustration of a pen of sheep, the "gate" through which one must enter the sheepfold IS "the door". There is no such thing as an "ante" gate, through which one must pass in order to eventually gain access to the real gate, before entering the sheepfold.

According to what is written in the Bible, there is no other "name", in addition to and other than the name of Jesus Christ, for the followers of the Jesus to acknowledge as some kind of alleged "gateway" to Christ, be it Rudometkin as "king of spirits", Rudometkin as king "yool'-i-yah", or any other heresy that is written in the Spirit and Life book.

The response from fourvetta:

In the new city of Jerusalem there are Twelve Gates, three gates on all fours sides of the city. These are the Twelve King Priests by which MUST enter into the city. Nothing unclean shall ever enter the city.

These are NOT the Twelve Apostles. The Apostles are the Twelve Foundation Stones.

Like Coffee said, there is no other foundation that a man can build upon other then the one laid by Christ Himself. Christ is the builder of the House of God. Any other house is built upon sand.

Again, the reference to the "gate" or "door", in context, refers to the proclamation that Jesus was making about himself, that He and the Father are One, and that He, the Lord Jesus Christ, is the literal Door to eternal salvation, the literal Gate, or Entryway, to eternal life.

Contrary to what fourvetta seems to want to believe, Jesus is NOT speaking about the heavenly, holy city, the New Jerusalem, in this Biblical text. Christ is referring to His followers as His "sheep", who come to Him as the only Door, as the only entrance and "Gate" to God's "sheepfold", for salvation and eternal life, as it is written:

I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

I and the Father are one." (John 10:9-30)

Contrary to fourvetta's response, the "sheepfold" used in Christ's illustration in the above Scripture is NOT a reference to the heavenly, holy city, the New Jerusalem. Nor is the illustration that is used by the Apostle Paul, where he proclaims to the believers in Corinth that the very foundation of their faith in God, the very foundation of their spiritual lives, as born again Christians who are saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, IS the Lord Jesus Christ.

Another example of fourvetta's confusion:

These are God's rulers whom God Himself placed in charge of His flock.

Apostle Paul in Romans 13 tells us to be mindfull of those who rule over us.

1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.

4 For he is God`s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God`s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience` sake.

6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God`s ministers attending continually to this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

This is not speaking of Bush or Sadaam Hussein, but of God's ministers.

And not preachers as in those who pray in church, but ministers. One who ministers to others. Something we as Molokans lack nowdays.

As the scripture says above in verse 4.

"If you do evil be afraid, for He does not bear the Sword of God in vain."

First of all, the Scripture in Verse 4 does NOT state "the Sword of God". This is another example of twisting Scripture out of context, which the Rudometkinites are notorious for.

Contrary to what fourvetta wants to believe, the Apostle Paul is addressing the subject of Christians submitting to the leadership of "governing authorities", and to the leadership of those who establish public policy for the society in which one lives, outside of the church environment, as it is written:

Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.

Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed. (Romans 13:5-7)

We do not pay taxes to those who "minister" in the spiritual meaning of the word. Nor do we pay revenue, or customs, to them either. The context of this passage from the Scriptures is referring to public officials, politicians, the police, the military, the Internal Revenue Service, etc.

The purpose here is not to make fun of fourvetta for his Biblical illiteracy, nor is it my intent to belittle any of today's current crop of Rudometkinites for the unBiblical and "kooky" belief system is in which they have been raised.

Rather, it is to demonstrate that when one deviates from the written Word of God, the Holy Scriptures, as the only stable, consistent and reliable source for knowing and understanding what is required by God, in order to become one of His children, to become a child of God, the end result is the confused spiritual mess that today's generation of Rudometkinites, like fourvetta and the others, have become.

The reader of the Bible, without any assistance from anyone else, eventually "gets it" that one's very existence here on earth is ALL about the Lord Jesus Christ, from creation, salvation, eternal life and the indwelling Holy Spirit, to the Kingdom of God, life, death, resurrection, heaven, etc., etc.

On the other hand, the Spirit and Life book was not published so that the readers could develop a closer relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Rudometkin makes it very clear in his writings that he is NOT an instrument of God for that purpose.

Rather, Rudometkin's intent was to teach his followers just how important he, Rudometkin, believed himself to be in the overall scheme of things.

In the meantime, like any good celebrity, Rudometkin reserved the right for himself to have the "babes" of his choosing, the chaste virgins, and he would call it "spiritual marriage", just like his Khlysty forefathers did.

The reader of the Spirit and Life book, without any assistance from anyone else, eventually "gets it" that as far as Rudometkin was concerned, everything was about himself, Rudometkin.

And, the next time that grey bearded elder stands up in church to read out of the Spirit and Life book, know ahead of time that his intent is not to teach you how to have a better relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. For that, he already has at his disposal the Bible, the Holy Scriptures, the spoken Word of God that has been written down for mankind in the Bible.

From the Bible:

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,

by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,

and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,

and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.

For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.

Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:2-8)

.

fourvetta · August 20, 2006

So, according to FV, are Molokans supposed to "follow the spirit" (again - what spirit) and totally disregard what God has said?

If someone prophesies and tells the congregation to become thieves or to become adulterers or turn to cannibalism - is everyone supposed to jump on that band wagon just 'cause the "spirit" told them to? Aren't prophecies supposed to be from God? Yes, they are, and if they are from God they should agree or align with the Bible.

God said, that we shall not drink blood for the life of the animal is in its blood. Also cannnibalism is prohibited.

However, Christ at one time had 70 disciples and when He said, "Unless one eats My flesh and drinks My blood , he shall not resurrect on the last day", 68 of those disciples left Him leaving the 12 disciples.

The name Jacob, means one who steals. Basically he was a deceiver. Jacob stole the birthright away from Esau. Major spiritual symbolism.

Adulteres or fornicators?

Read the first chapter of Hosea in the bible. This is contrary to the commandments of God. However God can change His laws if He so feels like it.

2 When the LORD began to speak by Hosea, the LORD said to Hosea:

" Go, take yourself a wife of harlotry, And children of harlotry, For the land has committed great harlotry By departing from the LORD."

3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.

4 Then the LORD said to him:" Call his name Jezreel, For in a little whileI will avenge the bloodshed of Jezreel on the house of Jehu, And bring an end to the kingdom of the house of Israel.

5 It shall come to pass in that day That I will break the bow of Israel in the Valley of Jezreel."

6 And she conceived again and bore a daughter. Then God said to him:

" Call her name Lo-Ruhamah, For I will no longer have mercy on the house of Israel, But I will utterly take them away.

I say to you today, that unless one eats of the body of Christ, which is His church and drinks His blood which is the Holy Spirit that proceeds from His church, one will not resurrect on the last day.

fourvetta · August 20, 2006

So, according to FV, are Molokans supposed to "follow the spirit" (again - what spirit) and totally disregard what God has said?

If someone prophesies and tells the congregation to become thieves or to become adulterers or turn to cannibalism - is everyone supposed to jump on that band wagon just 'cause the "spirit" told them to? Aren't prophecies supposed to be from God? Yes, they are, and if they are from God they should agree or align with the Bible.

Another instance of fornication sacntified by God.

Judah fornicated with who he thought was a prostitute. The prostitute turned out to be his own dauther in law, Tamar. Judah did not honor God by following His laws. According to Moses law, when a husband dies, the wife is to be given his brother, in order to raise offspring to him so his bloodline could continue.

Judah bore by Tamar a son named Perez, who is in the lineage of Jesus Christ.

King Solomon had a son also by the Queen of Sheba. Isaiah the prophet had offspring bore to him by a prophetess.

God is devious to those who are devious.

Why should anyone follow someone other than Jesus Christ?

I think not - that clearly goes against what the Bible says.

Christ said,

40"He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me.

41Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward.

42And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward."

fourvetta · August 20, 2006

First of all, the point being made by the Scripture in 1 Corinthians 3:11 is to proclaim the truth that Jesus Christ IS the foundation for what the Apostle Paul refers to as "God's building". In context, the Apostle Paul is addressing the subject of divisions between fellow believers within the Christian Church, and he refers to each follower of our Lord as the "temple of God"" wherein the Holy Spirit of God dwells.

Contrary to what fourvetta seems to want to believe, the Apostle Paul is NOT speaking about the heavenly, holy city of New Jerusalem. This is evident by the context of what is written in the Biblical text:

Contrary to fourvetta's response, the "sheepfold" used in Christ's illustration in the above Scripture is NOT a reference to the heavenly, holy city, the New Jerusalem. Nor is the illustration that is used by the Apostle Paul, where he proclaims to the believers in Corinth that the very foundation of their faith in God, the very foundation of their spiritual lives, as born again Christians who are saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, IS the Lord Jesus Christ.

Then it appears that coffee does not understand the illustration of the heavenly city.

Apostle Paul tells us in Hebrews 12 that the heavenly city is the general assembly of just men made perfect by the blood of Christ, members of the New Covenant, better said as Mount Zion.

18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest,

19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.

20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow."

21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I am exceedingly afraid and trembling."

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

How can someone who did not understand also be a member of such a church? How can one believe in something that he does not understand? How can he preach it to others?

So all together we have Christ being the Cornerstone or Capstone, the Twelve Apostles being the Foundation Stones. The Pillar of the Church is the King of Spirits. The Twelve King Priests, which have not yet come, being the Twelve Gates by which one must enter into the Holy City.

When Moses seen this on the Mount he was terrified.

Another illustration of Mount Zion is the Woman clothed in the Sun in Revelation 12 . Also another illustration of Christ's church is in Revelation 14.

Anyone outside of the Holy City is not a member of the New Covenant.

Contrary to what fourvetta wants to believe, the Apostle Paul is addressing the subject of Christians submitting to the leadership of "governing authorities", and to the leadership of those who establish public policy for the society in which one lives, outside of the church environment, as it is written:

Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.

Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed. (Romans 13:5-7)

We do not pay taxes to those who "minister" in the spiritual meaning of the word. Nor do we pay revenue, or customs, to them either. The context of this passage from the Scriptures is referring to public officials, politicians, the police, the military, the Internal Revenue Service, etc.

Christ said when questioned about paying taxes, "Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's."

So yes, we are supposed to Honor God's ministers.

Ananias and Sapphira did not honor Apostle Peter, by thinking they could fool him. We know what happened there.

little koshka · August 21, 2006

FV -

Twist, turn, churn, chop, shake, and blend.

There is still time for you to learn and accept what God's true message in the Bible is.

Christ's gift of eternal salvation is for those who choose to accept Him and only Him. We all have the free will to accept Him or deny Him.

Check yourself into BSF soon and study the whole Bible without any influence from MGR and the S&L.

I'll pray for you.

Spiritual Marriage Discussion

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