It Helps To Read What Rudometkin Wrote In The S & L

coffee · January 2, 2007

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I recently listened to a discussion about the religion of Islam, and as the basic belief system was broken down to its core, to its inception, to its actual beginning, the realization was made that the very "concept" of a God named Allah, including all of the writings in The Koran, was conceived in the mind and imagination of a businessman from Mecca, named Mohammed, who proclaimed himself to be a "prophet".

As a result of the influence that he initially had on others, Mohammed still has a growing number of devout followers all over the world today, a phenomenon which is perhaps unmatched in numbers as it relates to present-day world "religions".

When students of the Bible compare the "inspired writings" of The Koran against the message of love, grace, forgiveness and eternal salvation that is written in the Holy Scriptures, as given by the Holy Spirit, it becomes evident almost immediately that Mohammed was "inspired" by a different spirit, yes an unclean spirit that gave him his many "revelations" which, up to that point in time (610-620 AD) were truly "new", and which no one else had ever heard of.

Among Muslims in Arab nations, including Muslims who live in Israel, it is common to hear the term "Allah" used interchangeably for the name of the Creator "God". However, when comparing the Allah of The Koran with the One Living God of the Bible, it is evident that "Allah" who is worshipped by the Mohammedans differs from the God of the Bible in both personality and character.

In other words, Allah, the god of Islam, is NOT the same "God" Who identifies Himself in the Bible by the name "I AM", and Who is the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ.

As has been thoroughly demonstrated, there is a similar situation that exists within our Molokan community, among the present crop of today's Rudometkinites. From numerous comments that have been made here on the internet, it is clear that the current generation of those who are followers of Rudometkin believe that the writings in the Spirit and Life book have been given to them "by the Holy Spirit".

Molokan does mean Christian the way the prestol is right now.

Taking away a book [the Spirit and Life book] that is in your eyes heresy, does not make someone a Christian.

Actually taking it off the prestol is throwing away what the Holy Spirit has given us.

(stevepiv, Post #54, what is a Molokan woman?)

A True Molokan is a Christian.

....a person that holds onto our prestol, it was given to us through the Holy Spirit and we are not to throw it away.

(stevepiv - Post #9 - Another Spirit and Life Discussion)

For those who have been born and raised in a religious environment where the Spirit and Life book has always been revered as alleged "sacred writings", most of these individuals attempt to somehow "attach" the designation of "Christian" to their belief system. Either that, or they insist on including the name of "Molokan" to their own personal religious identity.

They attempt to do this by "blending" a portion of what is written in the Bible with a portion of history about our Bible-based Molokan Christian forefathers, and mixing it together with what Rudometkin wrote in the Spirit and Life book.

I accept the writings of The Bible and The Spirit and Life.

(stevepiv - Post # 4 - New Israel, Old Israel)

The Spirit & Life has been on the prestol since 1915-1916?? confirmed by prophets to put it on each prestol.

(fivevetta - Post #29 - Bible Based Holidays)

My Saviour: JESUS CHRIST

My Scriptures: THE BIBLE AND THE SPIRIT AND LIFE

(fivevetta - Post # 14 - Jesus is God & Post # 38 - Bringing a Bible to Church)

However, in their support and defense of Rudometkin's Book of the Sun writings, as they are found in the Spirit and Life book, the Rudometkinites become silent and dumb whenever they are confronted with key questions having to do with controversial "spiritual revelations" that are foundational to their very belief system, and crucial as to why they have chosen to become followers of Rudometkin and his writings in the Spirit and Life book.

The question is asked by the devout Rudometkinites about their hero:

Why would you reject who Jesus sent?

(somebody - Post #10 - Another Spirit and Life Discussion)

In other words, the Rudometkinites continue to ask why anyone would want to reject Rudometkin, since, according to how they believe, Rudometkin was allegedly "sent?" by Jesus?

The answer is found in the Bible, where the Lord Jesus Christ Himself taught His followers about the Holy Spirit, as it is written:

....He dwells with you and will be in you. (John 14:15-18)

....He will guide you into all the truth (John 16:13-15)

....He will bear witness about me. (John 15:26)

When reading the writings of Rudometkin, we must realize the following:

1) The very "concept" of a God allegedly named "Alkhayim Fatmie, Angha Ishmaghah Shaghmas" (from Book 1, Article 3, Verse 9)

2) And the very "concept" of a Son of God supposedly named "Alfeyil Likhtamis" (from Book 1, Article 5, Verse 12)

3) And the very "concept" of a man named Rudometkin becoming the physical incarnation of the Holy Spirit, and in the process being named "Admeyil" (from Book 1, Article 35, Verse 9)

4) As well as all of the other "spiritual revelations" that are found in the Spirit and Life book

This was all conceived in the mind and imagination of Rudometkin himself, who elected himself to be a "prophet", and who "introduced" his mystical teachings to his followers with specific words that are written on the very beginning page of his "Book of the Sun":

"Here I, Admeyil (Rudometkin), entrust this book of mine to that man, who by it, can truly serve me (Rudometkin), as well as all of my spiritual community, those who everywhere confess the Spirit of my (Rudometkin's) suffering." (Book 1, Article 1, Verse 1)

When our Bible-based Molokan Christian great-grandparents and grandparents immigrated here to America, they already knew the name of our God. Our Christian Molokan families have always referred to God by the Biblical name that is pronounced "Bogh".

According to what has been handed down by our Molokan Christian forefathers, the God of the Bible identifies Himself by name in the Scriptures as "Yah Es'm, Sooh-shie", or "I AM WHO I AM, I EXIST" (Exodus 3:13-15).

What this means is that just as the name of Allah, who is Mohammed's version for the god of Islam, is NOT the same as "Yahweh", the God of the Bible....

....so also, Rudometkin's "Al-kha-yim", who is Rudometkin's version for the god of the Rudometkinites, is NOT the same as the Living "I AM" God of the Bible.

According to what is written in "The Book of the Sun", Rudometkin's extra-Biblical version of God the Father is named "Alkhayim", and Rudometkin's un-Scriptural version of Jesus Christ is named "Alfeyil", both names coming from Rudometkin's own mind and imagination, as inspired by the unclean spirit which still today, is "active" among Rudometkin's loyal and zealous "Jumpers and Leapers" New Israel followers.

From Rudometkin:

These [spirits] all together must eternally and invariably glorify the name of God their Father in songs, and together with Him His firstborn Son, Alfeyil.

He [Alfeyil] always personally before them possessed the image of the hypostasis of God His Father, Alkhayim, and therein constantly conversed with them in His [the Father's] name, like a man and not like a Spirit.

(Book 1, Article 6, Verses 7-8)

....as well as Alfeyil Himself, the firstborn Son of God, Who was always seated with Him in the person of a god and as a man.

(Book 1, Article 7, Verse 7)

In other words, "Alfeyil" is Rudometkin's un-Scriptural and extra-Biblical version of Jesus Christ.

More from Rudometkin:

In the Spirit, I am Alfeyil; but in the flesh, I am Admeyil - - Ekhvi.

(Book 1, Article 35, Verse 9)

Using Rudometkin's own un-Biblical terminology then, which he used to identify the names of his version of God the Father and his version of Jesus Christ, Rudometkin clearly stated that he was the physical embodiment of Christ himself.

Going back to Rudometkin's original statement then, he "entrusted" his collection of "spiritual inspiration" to those who with them, would truly "serve him".

As it applies to the situation within our Molokan churches today then, with Rudometkin's collection of writings known as "The Book of the Sun", as they are found within the Spirit and Life book that lies open on the "prestol", Rudometkin's readers and followers serve Rudometkin, not God.

"Here I, Admeyil, entrust this book of mine to that man, who by it, can truly serve me, as well as all of my spiritual community, those who everywhere confess the Spirit of my suffering." (Book 1, Article 1, Verse 1)

For those who are the descendants of our true original Molokans, the remnant of our Bible-based Christian forefathers who are the present day followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit leads us and guides us to the words of our Savior, our Master and our King, to the Word of God that is written in the Scriptures:

But when the Helper comes, Whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness about Me. (John 15:26)

When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you unto all the truth....He will glorify Me.... (John 16:13-15)

(To be continued....)

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steadfast · January 3, 2007

New Israelites your savior "God of the Tartars" page 442, 8/22/4 contradicts himself. Are the Holy Scriptures to be understood literally or spiritually, which of his statements is a lie?

"Fourth: make certain that each of you boldly follows therein the steps of the true Spirit and not by the letters of the law which bypasses it." page 443, 8/22/5.

"For he gained the victory over the authority of the dominion of the darkness of this age, and thus placed our feet firmly upon the path of hope of the Holy Scriptures, so that each of us could follow it literally, as it is without any interpretation, Amen." page 457, 9/7/10-11.

coffee · January 5, 2007

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From Rudometkin:

These [spirits]all together must eternally and invariably glorify the name of God their Father in songs, and together with Him His firstborn Son, Alfeyil.

He [Alfeyil] always personally before them possessed the image of the hypostasis of God His Father, Alkhayim, and therein constantly conversed with them in His [the Father's] name, like a man and not like a Spirit. (Book 1, Article 6, Verses 7-8)

....as well as Alfeyil Himself, the firstborn Son of God, Who was always seated with Him in the person of a god and as a man. (Book 1, Article 7, Verse 7)

In the Spirit, I am Alfeyil; but in the flesh, I am Admeyil - - Ekhvi. (Book 1, Article 35, Verse 9)

Here I, Admeyil, entrust this book of mine to that man, who by it, can truly serve me, as well as all of my spiritual community, those who everywhere confess the Spirit of my suffering." (Book 1, Article 1, Verse 1)

Given the fact that the very purpose and intent of that which is recorded in the Bible is to encourage believers to know and worship God, as it is written in Colossians 3:24, to serve the Lord Jesus Christ, when reading Rudometkin's initial statement at the very introduction to his "spiritual revelations", it is indeed curious why Rudometkin's specific intent and purpose was that by and through the use of his very writings, his followers would be faithful in some way to serve him, to serve Rudometkin, the man, rather than to serve "Alkhayim", the name given by Rudometkin for his version of "God the Father".

In the same way, it is also curious why Rudometkin would want his followers to serve him, the man Rudometkin, instead of "Alfeyil", which is the name of Rudometkin's version of Jesus Christ.

Of course, this could be a moot point, since Rudometkin also claimed that he was Alfeyil, who was embodied in his own physical person, albeit identified by the name of "Admeyil", instead of Makcim.

However, the reason for all of this becomes evident rather quickly when reading the true context of the remainder of Rudometkin's writings, especially that which is "Khlystical" in content and nature, and virtually identical to the mystical teachings of Rudometkin's Khlysty forefathers, particularly as it pertains to the "status of christ", which Rudometkin had among his followers.

With regard to Rudometkin's "Book of the Sun" writings that are part of the Spirit and Life book:

Molokan does mean Christian the way the prestol is right now. Taking away a book [the Spirit and Life book]that is in your eyes heresy, does not make someone a Christian. Actually taking it off the prestol is throwing away what the Holy Spirit has given us.

(stevepiv, Post #54, what is a Molokan woman?)

A True Molokan is a Christian.

....a person that holds onto our prestol, it was given to us through the Holy Spirit and we are not to throw it away.

(stevepiv - Post #9 - Another Spirit and Life Discussion)

According to what is written in the Holy Scriptures, the Holy Spirit would NEVER inspire or "give" someone a book of "spiritual inspiration" that was admittedly written specifically to serve a man, or to "serve" someone other than God, or to bear witness of and give glory to someone other than the Lord Jesus Christ.

To do so contradicts what is recorded in the Bible, which is the written Word of God.

According to the recorded words of Jesus Christ, the purpose and intent of the work of the Holy Spirit is defined in the Bible as being very precise:

But when the Helper comes, Whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness about Me. (John 15:26)

When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you unto all the truth....He will glorify Me.... (John 16:13-15)

What this means is that when someone is filled with the Holy Spirit, or is led by the Holy Spirit to prophesy, the words that they speak will bear witness about the Lord Jesus Christ, and will not bring attention or "recognition" to the individual, to the person who is the "prophet". The testimony of a prophet's "spiritual revelation" will glorify the Lord Jesus Christ, and will magnify and exalt Him, and will not bring glory or honor to the one who is simply "the messenger".

According to what is written in the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ would NEVER "send" Rudometkin, or any other alleged "prophet" for that matter, to write a book with the express purpose and intent clearly stated at the very beginning, to serve him, to serve the writer of the book himself.

The "spirit" that inspired Rudometkin to create within his mind and imagination his own version of God the Father, to create within his mind and imagination his own version of the Son of God, with his own version of the Holy Spirit, gives glory to Rudometkin, with Rudometkin as the very "centerpiece". According to the Scriptures, this contradicts the very purpose and intent of the work of the Holy Spirit.

Regarding:

The Spirit & Life has been on the prestol since 1915-1916?? confirmed by prophets to put it on each prestol.

(fivevetta - Post #29 - Bible Based Holidays)

I just recently finished a discussion with somebody who is one of today's young and zealous Rudometkinites. These very vocal young men are at a great disadvantage because the majority of them are Biblically illiterate, and because of this, they have no answer when they are confronted with the contradictions and discrepancies that Rudometkin has written in the very book which they have been taught to believe is their "Scriptures".

In this case, our young Rudometkinite was making the statement that in the Bible, in Revelation 12:1-5, the description of the male child born of the woman clothed with the sun is speaking about Rudometkin, and not about the Lord Jesus Christ.

The reason this young man gave was that in Revelation 4:1, it is written that the voice heard by the Apostle John told him that the Apostle John would be shown things "which must take place after this". What was so important to this faithful young Rudometkinite, was that according to him, the Apostle John wrote the Book of Revelation in 99 AD, which he kept repeating was "many" years after Christ.

Following this reasoning then, the young man concluded that everything written from Revelation 4:1 through Chapter 22, which is the end of the book, is written about things "which must take place after this", and to say that what is written in Revelation 12:1-5 is a description of the Lord Jesus Christ would amount to a "history lesson review", and would not be describing that "which must take place after this".

In Revelation 1:19, the Apostle John is told to write the things which he was shown, those that are, meaning those things that have already taken place and are happening now, as well as those things that are to take place after this. In other words, according to the Scriptures, what was revealed to the Apostle John was a combination of the past, present and future.

To say that by the time the Apostle John got to the place in his manuscript which corresponds with Revelation 4:1, that he was writing about and describing those things which are to take place thereafter ONLY, is to disregard what the Apostle John was told earlier in Revelation 1:19.

Not only that, but the 4th Chapter of the Book of Revelation describes the very Throne of God, where the Lord Himself dwells, in heaven. If we are to accept the theory of the Rudometkinites, that everything written from Revelation 4:1 to the end of the book is a description of those things that are in the future "ONLY", then we are to also believe that prior to the time when the Apostle John wrote Revelation 4:1, there was no Throne Room in heaven, and the Lord Jesus Christ was not yet seated on the throne.

Needless to say, the discussion ended with the young man intent on believing that the male child born of the woman clothed with the sun, who is described in Revelation 12:1-5, is Rudometkin, not the Lord Jesus Christ.

It has been my experience that the Rudometkinites begin their reading of the Scriptures from the perspective that before anything is read or discussed, above and beyond everything that could possibly be considered true and right, as the absolute truth, without any required substantiation whatsoever, they MUST accept the fact that Rudometkin was a true prophet, and that his writings in the Spirit and Life book are the absolute truth, no matter what. Once that assumption and theory has been established as necessary for the very foundation of their theology and belief system, whenever they read what is written in the Bible, it is always read within those "boundaries.

My Saviour: JESUS CHRIST

My Scriptures: THE BIBLE AND THE SPIRIT AND LIFE

(fivevetta - Post # 14 - Jesus is God & Post # 38 - Bringing a Bible to Church)

I accept the writings of The Bible and The Spirit and Life.

(stevepiv - Post # 4 - New Israel, Old Israel)

Based on what Rudometkin wrote in the Spirit and Life book, he promised to "reward" his followers with eternal life, and as the sign of the seal that he would do this, he promised the Rudometkinites that he, Rudometkin, would coronate himself with a crown of gold, to be their "king" and "giver" of eternal life.

The following is prefaced with words from Rudometkin, who tells his followers to "listen well" to that which Rudometkin's "new spirit" evangelizes about the promised peace, and the "secret" of Rudometkin's version of God and His Lamb.

For this you will be rewarded by me with eternal life, and the Kingdom of peace of our Lord Jesus Christ, upon this good land for a thousand years. (Verse 5)

Moreover, you will truly be given all of this from me, if only you justly fulfill my will in the Spirit. (Verse 6)

Meanwhile I, first of all, will clothe myself in garments of scarlet, and then....

I shall place a crown of gold upon my head.... (Page 352, Book 6, Article 17, Verses 1-13)

It is written in the Scriptures that there is only ONE savior Who gives eternal life, and that person is the Lord Jesus Christ:

Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on Him God the Father has set His seal. (John 6:27)

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

I and the Father are one. (John 10:27-30)

When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you,

since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.

And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." (John 17:1-3)

There is no "nice" way to say it. What Rudometkin has written about "rewarding" his followers with eternal life is one of the most openly blasphemous contradictions between what is the written Word of God, in the Bible, versus the written word of heresy in Rudometkin's "Book of the Sun" writings that are featured in the Spirit and Life book.

Obviously, Rudometkin's writings are an integral and necessary part of the belief system for those who are the followers of Makcim Rudometkin, for those who are the New Israel Jumpers and Leapers.

It is has been my experience that of the Rudometkinites who so adamantly and even arrogantly pronounce their devotion to the Spirit and Life book as having been "given" by the Holy Spirit, only a very rare few ever change their belief system, or their religious convictions, once they have been given the opportunity to do so, even after the heresy of Rudometkin's writings has been clearly proven and exposed.

From Rudometkin's "Book of the Sun" writings in the Spirit and Life book:

Alleyil-Alleyil! The God of all Gods, Alkhayim.

Al Fal Asmaragh! The God of men, Alfeyil!

Somagh-Fayil! The Spirit of truth, Admeyil

(Book 9, Article 1, Verses 1-5)

Is it any wonder why the Rudometkinites are so confused about what they believe? Way back in the beginning of his writings, Rudometkin first told his followers that he, Rudometkin, in the flesh, is known by the name of "Admeyil", and that he, Admeyil, is the writer of Rudometkin's "spiritual revelations". Now, all of a sudden, Admeyil is the "Spirit of Truth"?

In the Spirit, I am Alfeyil; but in the flesh, I am Admeyil - - Ekhvi. (Book 1, Article 35, Verse 9)

Here I, Admeyil, entrust this book of mine to that man, who by it, can truly serve me, as well as all of my spiritual community, those who everywhere confess the Spirit of my suffering." (Book 1, Article 1, Verse 1)

Somagh-Fayil! The Spirit of truth, Admeyil (Book 9, Article 1, Verses 1-5)

I guess Rudometkin really is "everything" to his followers, from being "God of the faithful", to being Jesus Christ, to being the very "Spirit of Truth", the Holy Spirit?

Could it be possible that all three persons of the trinity were wrapped up in one single, arrogant, Biblically illiterate, crude and crass bully, who was a demon possessed heretic with an overactive obsession of having sex with virgin girls, living there in the Transcaucasus of southern Russia and who is honored by his followers today, as they go about leaping and jumping to the words that are recorded in the "Book of the Sun" writings that are part of the Spirit and Life book, giving praise and exaltation to "Tsar Doo-xhovf", their very "King of Spirits"?

From the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, as they are recorded in the Bible:

But when the Helper comes, Whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness about Me. (John 15:26)

(more to come....)

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stevepiv · January 5, 2007

Go to work, your boss might get mad at all your typing and not enough working.

Go fix the american church you go to, quit messing around over here. If you don't like it in our Molokan Church's; leave!!

stevepiv · January 5, 2007

The Spirit & Life book has been on the prestol for about 90 years. What makes you the chosen one to bash the spiritual writings sent to us?

Don't you think if they were wrong that in the past 90 years it would have been corrected?

Just face it, the Spirit & Life book will remain on the Prestol of the True Molokan Christian Spiritual Jumper Church's.

If you have another way of conducting Church to Worship and give Praise to our Father, Saviour Jesus Christ with the Stregnth of The Holy Spirit why don't you drop your case here on a site named Molokan and leave.

Go start a church see if it is successful. How long did the enchilada church last????

How about the other books on the prestol, do you take those off as well and only leave the Bible?

Do you have a pesnick at home?

little koshka · January 5, 2007

I have a question for those who have their shtanishki in a bunch over this.

Are the passages quoted from the S&L in the book or not?

Are these MGR's words or not?

Is coffee correctly quoting passages from the S&L and the Bible or not?

If what coffee posted correctly quotes the S&L and the Bible, well, there it is. If not, he needs to be corrected.

anakainosis · January 6, 2007

I have a question for those who have their shtanishki in a bunch over this.

Are the passages quoted from the S&L in the book or not?

Are these MGR's words or not?

Is coffee correctly quoting passages from the S&L and the Bible or not?

If what coffee posted correctly quotes the S&L and the Bible, well, there it is. If not, he needs to be corrected.

Yes, Coffee`s quotes are accurate enough.

Nick Shubin · January 6, 2007

Go to work, your boss might get mad at all your typing and not enough working.

Go fix the american church you go to, quit messing around over here. If you don't like it in our Molokan Church's; leave!!

<begin sarcasm> Such an intelligent, well thought out post! <end sarcasm>

stevepiv · January 6, 2007

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. People shouldln't go through life unhappy or not sure or confused. If that's the way you truly feel, why keep coming, why keep questioning, why only come onto Molokan sites?

There are plenty of other faith's out there willing to change with the times and that have an open mind to modernize the church structure for more people to come. Halloween parties, Christmas events, 4th of July, etc.... (all the pagan holidays and holidays not from God.) Church's that teach tolerance and acceptance of behavior and attitudes that go against God's will.

The Molokan Church has survived here in America for 100 years+, there have been changes to the way things are done or looked at, it's common when leadership changes take place. But the actual worship services on Saturday Night, Sunday Morning, Sunday Night have not lost their core structure. And certainly will not. The prestol will remain intact until the coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

If I was working at a job and saw some things wrong and went to my boss to tell him, but everytime he kept putting me down, bashing me, tells me you need to get experience first, this is at a higher level of thinking. And, I truly had the solution, or a fix to the problem. I'd go somewhere else. Because, i'm sure if the problem is here, somewhere else they are facing the same problem or they have problems. Pack up your tools and go.

Nick Shubin · January 6, 2007

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. People shouldln't go through life unhappy or not sure or confused. If that's the way you truly feel, why keep coming, why keep questioning, why only come onto Molokan sites?

There are plenty of other faith's out there willing to change with the times and that have an open mind to modernize the church structure for more people to come. Halloween parties, Christmas events, 4th of July, etc.... (all the pagan holidays and holidays not from God.) Church's that teach tolerance and acceptance of behavior and attitudes that go against God's will.

The Molokan Church has survived here in America for 100 years+, there have been changes to the way things are done or looked at, it's common when leadership changes take place. But the actual worship services on Saturday Night, Sunday Morning, Sunday Night have not lost their core structure. And certainly will not. The prestol will remain intact until the coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

If I was working at a job and saw some things wrong and went to my boss to tell him, but everytime he kept putting me down, bashing me, tells me you need to get experience first, this is at a higher level of thinking. And, I truly had the solution, or a fix to the problem. I'd go somewhere else. Because, i'm sure if the problem is here, somewhere else they are facing the same problem or they have problems. Pack up your tools and go.

Status quo Stevepiv!

I have heard your rhetoric all of my life! On the one hand, i grew up with a postayan grandfather telling me not to touch the second book, and on the other hand i had maximist spevka/bible/s&l teachers telling me how evil the postayani were/are. How great maxim was, what a leader he was, and all the same stories/cliches/rhetoric that you expounded in your quoted post. It wasn't until i was an adult that i began to trully search Gods word, and the true documented history of our people. As hard as it was to swallow, i found out that mgr wasn't such a great guy! I found out that all the stories i had heard about postayani, and in some cases persians were all lies, and slander!

Our molokan brotherhood was around for upwards of 150 years before mgr was even born. How were our services conducted before he came around? If you do some research, you will find as i did, that mgr, and his followers were not molokans, they were known as new israel, sounds familiar doesn't it?

So, before you get on your soap box telling people to get lost, do some studying, find out who mgr really was, and what he trully gave to molokanism.

stevepiv · January 6, 2007

There is always 2 sides to every story. Even research books are written with a little of favoritism or liking to one person. Conflict, who's right and who's wrong is everywhere. But where does it stop.

11 When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.

12 Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15 "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners'

16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

17 "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not!

18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.

19 For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God.

20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

Nick Shubin · January 6, 2007

There is always 2 sides to every story. Even research books are written with a little of favoritism or liking to one person. Conflict, who's right and who's wrong is everywhere. But where does it stop.

11 When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.

12 Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15 "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners'

16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

17 "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not!

18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.

19 For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God.

20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

Awesome scripture you quoted! Do you understand what you quoted?

seeking_truth_1 · January 6, 2007

You are correct about 2 sides, but what does that have to do with the Bible and basic Christian doctrine?

There is the Bible and then there is heresy

You cited a great passage that is contrary to what your "god" mgr teaches

Scripture states

"I am not one of those who treats the grace of God as meaningless. For if we could be saved by keeping the law, then there was no need for Christ to die." (Galatians 2:21 NLT)

It also states

"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:8-10 NKJV)

"not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit," (Titus 3:5 NKJV)

mgr states

The body of the righteous soul at this time, because of its good works, will be transformed and sanctified in the image of his Creator Book 14 Article 14 Verse 20

Furthermore my brothers and sisters, it is not faith alone that will save a man, but it is necessary to show works Book 4 Article 3 Verse 1

It cannot be both ways

Which is it?

Where does your hypocrisy stop stevepiv (a.k.a. 5vetta)?

There is always 2 sides to every story. Even research books are written with a little of favoritism or liking to one person. Conflict, who's right and who's wrong is everywhere. But where does it stop.

11 When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.

12 Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15 "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners'

16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

17 "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not!

18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.

19 For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God.

20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

coffee · January 6, 2007

.

In this thread, I am attempting to encourage the readers to seriously THINK about the comment made so arrogantly, with emphatic punctuation by those who are the stereotypical Rudometkinite zealots, regarding the current "format" for worship services in our present-day Molokan churches, that it has all been allegedly "given" by the Holy Spirit, including everything that is written in the Spirit and Life book.

Molokan does mean Christian the way the prestol is right now.

Taking away a book [the Spirit and Life book] that is in your eyes heresy, does not make someone a Christian.

Actually taking it [the Spirit and Life book] off the prestol is throwing away what the Holy Spirit has given us.

(stevepiv, Post #54, what is a Molokan woman?)

The Spirit & Life has been on the prestol since 1915-1916?? confirmed by prophets to put it on each prestol.

(fivevetta - Post #29 - Bible Based Holidays)

As a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, and because I am a student of the Bible, I believe it is a requirement by God to test the "spirit" that endorses the presence and existence of Rudometkin's "Book of the Sun" writings that are featured in the Spirit and Life book which, it goes without saying, has such an intoxicating influence and effect upon Rudometkin's current crop of zealous followers.

From Rudometkin's writings that are on the prestol in our Molokan churches today, we know that among other things, Rudometkin was deceived by an unclean spirit to believe that he was the Lord Jesus Christ, personally, in the flesh.

Take care that you do everything with understanding, just as I who am a servant of the Lord have, I who am the very image of the very Lord Jesus Christ Himself, the One Who is not created with human hands, and I am the leader of all His people together in truth. (Page 521, Book 10, Article 29, Verse 8)

The primary reason for this deception is that Rudometkin not only was heavily influenced by the mystical heresies of his own Khlysty forefathers, whose religious practices included having their own "christs", as well as the practice of polygamy under the un-Biblical concept of "spiritual marriage", but Rudometkin was also Biblically illiterate.

That, combined with his own personal weaknesses in the flesh, predominantly his personality of a bully, with his intense desire to have power and domination over others, is what led to Rudometkin becoming the deceived heretic that he was.

The reason that we know Rudometkin was deceived by an unclean spirit, and the reason we know Rudomtkin was NOT inspired or "led" by the Holy Spirit, is because of how confused he was with regard to his own personal identity.

From Rudometkin:

In the Spirit, I am Alfeyil; but in the flesh, I am Admeyil - - Ekhvi. (Page 204, Book 1, Article 35, Verse 9)

......the rebuke and torment of the apostate Hebrews and false-Christians, not now with the letter of the Scriptures but with the Spirit of God and Jehovah, and His iron rod. Which will be in the hand of the Great hero named Admeyil [Rudometkin], or to say it more correctly a man of God, born of the woman clothed in the sun. (Page 203, Book 1, Article 35, Verses 1-2)

Here I, Admeyil, entrust this book of mine to that man, who by it, can truly serve me, as well as all of my spiritual community, those who everywhere confess the Spirit of my suffering." (Page 169, Book 1, Article 1, Verse 1)

Those who are the Bible-based Christians know that God the Holy Spirit does not "suffer", as in the human sense, nor does the Holy Spirit have His own "spiritual community", nor does the Holy Spirit seek to have those who will "serve" Him, the Holy Spirit as an individual, because according to what is written in the Scriptures, we know that the work of the Holy Spirit is to lead souls who are without God, to repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

So, Rudometkin began with his introduction of himself to his followers as "the man", Admeyil, who "in the spirit" was supposedly Rudometkin's version of Jesus Christ, who Rudometkin identified by name, "Alfeyil".

However, somewhere along the line, Rudometkin believed that he had become "godded", which is the term historians use to describe the "experience" after which a "christ" among the Khlysty actually believed himself to become "God Himself", in the form of "God Sabaoth", and in some cases a combination of Jesus Christ and / or the Holy Spirit, or as it appears to be in Rudometkin's case, all three at once.

From Rudometkin:

Although I, by my first birth, am a man of sinful bones, but by my second birth, I am the Lord Himself, from heaven. (Page 415, Book 7, Article 27, Verses 6-8)

Alleyil-Alleyil! The God of all Gods, Alkhayim.

Al Fal Asmaragh! The God of men, Alfeyil!

Somagh-Fayil! The Spirit of truth, Admeyil

(Page 450, Book 9, Article 1, Verses 1-5)

According to what he explained to his followers, Rudometkin believed that he went from being a man named Admeyil, to being a spirit named Admeyil, in fact the very Holy Spirit, and as the alleged "Spirit of Truth", Rudometkin believed that he had become "God Himself", as a person, in the flesh.

I am everywhere the Spirit of truth. I visibly came down from heaven from God the Father of all lights! (Page 198, Book 1, Article 30, Verse 1)

For this Spirit is in person God Himself and the King of all the New Israel. (Page 434, Book 8, Article 15, Verse 1)

The reason that Rudometkin's heresy cannot be validated as "truth" is because of what Rudometkin explained to his followers in his "Book of the Sun" writings that influence the majority of the content of the Spirit and Life book:

Here I (Rudometkin), the new Youlia-Yar, am telling you then all that was bestowed upon me to reveal to you about myself and my new spirit, which every minute teaches me that I must blaze for you a new pathway to Paradise. (Spirit and Life book, Page 326, Book 5, Article 20, Introduction)

A summons into the new Kingdom of peace of our Lord Jesus Christ, of all generations and peoples alike. Let each heed - those that have ears - and with them, listen well to that which my new Spirit evangelizes in new fiery tongues, to all of you, regarding the promised peace for a thousand years. Amen. (Page 352, Book 6, Article 17, beginning paragraph)

Be attentive to all of these new words, spoken in pronouncement here to you about what is soon everywhere coming to be, and which today, actually from the age here on earth, the eyes of the buzzard have not seen, and which, from eternity, the deaf ear of the viper has nowhere heard, and likewise, every sinistral man together with them.

Except for only me alone, your leader, by the revelation of My God, I came to know these [new words] clearly, in the spirit, in my nightly visions, as if looking at my own face in a mirror.

That is why I wish to personally reveal all of this to you, the New Israel, in these detailed lines, and show all of you the true new path of the King My God, and the eternal procession upon it. (Verse 3)

(Page 508, Book 10, Article 18, Verses 1-3)

It seems like Rudometkin's own followers do not even read what their own "King" has written to them in the very book which they claim to be their sacred "Scriptures".

Rudometkin did NOT claim to be revealing his "new pathway" to his God, by inspiration of the "Holy Spirit". According to what is written in the Spirit and Life book, Rudometkin's entire revelation about himself was by inspiration of his "new spirit".

Therefore, what exists on the prestol in the Molokan churches exists because "prophets" who were followers of Rudometkin, and who were inspired by Rudometkin's "new spirit", put those writings on the prestol, and the Bible-based Molokan Christian elders at that time, in the interest of "peace" allowed it to be done.

According to Rudometkin's own words, his alleged "sacred writings" exist by "inspiration" of Rudometkin's "new spirit", and not the Holy Spirit of the Bible.

It is curious why today's Rudometkinites are so reluctant, as if "ashamed", to admit that their theology, as well as their entire religious belief system, is founded upon "revelation" that is based on Rudometkin's "new pathway to God", with Rudometkin as the very centerpiece.

If the Rudometkinites truly believe that the Spirit and Life book is their "sacred Scriptures", and that Rudometkin is truly worthy to receive from them all recognition, exaltation, honor, glory and praise as their beloved "King of Spirits", then what is so hard for them to come out and admit what their hero wrote, that according to Rudometkin's "Book of the Sun" writings that are featured in the Spirit and Life book, the New Israel Jumpers and Leapers have been given a "new pathway" to their God, as revealed to them by their beloved Rudometkin, who has introduced his followers to a "new spirit"?

(to be continued....)

.

Pollo del Mar · January 9, 2007

coffee · April 1, 2007

.

A summons into the new Kingdom of peace of our Lord Jesus Christ, of all generations and peoples alike. Let each heed - those that have ears - and with them, listen well to that which my new Spirit evangelizes in new fiery tongues, to all of you, regarding the promised peace for a thousand years. Amen. (M. G. Rudometkin, Spirit and Life book, Page 352, Book 6, Article 17, beginning paragraph)

Here I [Rudometkin], the new Youlia-Yar, am telling you then all that was bestowed upon me to reveal to you about myself and my new spirit, which every minute teaches me that I must blaze for you a new pathway to Paradise. (Page 326, Book 5, Article 20, Introduction)

I [Rudometkin] wish to reveal all of this for you the New Israel, in these same lines, and show all of you truly the new path of the King my God, and the eternal procession of it. (Page 508, Book 10, Article 18, Verse 3)

For this you will be rewarded by me [by Rudometkin] with eternal life, and the Kingdom of peace of our Lord Jesus Christ, upon this good land for a thousand years.

Moreover, you will truly be given all of this from me, if only you justly fulfill my will in the Spirit.

Meanwhile I, first of all, will clothe myself in garments of scarlet, and then....

I shall place a crown of gold upon my head.... (Page 352, Book 6, Article 17, Verses 1-13)

There is no confusion about what Rudometkin wrote. The "spirit" of the Rudometkinites is most definitely a "NEW" spirit. Without question, Rudometkin's identified "pathway" is a "NEW" pathway, which leads to the very "spirit" that Rudometkin identifies throughout his writings by a variety of different names, as his "god".

For those who have accepted Rudometkin's new spirit, and who have elected to follow Rudometkin's new pathway, Rudometkin is undoubtedly the "star attraction", as we can observe by the arrogant religious behavior of those who are the followers, the defenders and proponents of what was written by Rudometkin in the Spirit and Life book.

This is the ultimate purpose and intent for the Spirit and Life book itself, not to mention the very reason for the "activity of the spirit" which is manifested whenever and wherever the Rudometkinites gather to proclaim the name and title of "king of spirits", so that attention is given to Rudometkin, for Rudometkin to be exalted, for Rudometkin to receive recognition, and for Rudometkin to receive honor and glory, as their "main attraction".

This is in contrast to the Bible-based Molokan Christians, those who have received and who are indwelled by the Holy Spirit sent by God, according to what is written in the Scriptures. The Holy Spirit of the Bible witnesses of the Lord Jesus Christ, and testifies that He is THE Way, the ONLY pathway to God the Father.

For the Bible-based Molokan Christian, Rudometkin's new spirit and Rudometkin's new pathway are both undeniably heresy that is inspired by an unclean spirit, the unmistakable "spirit" identified by name in the Scriptures as Satan.

For those who are the true followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, He is and always will be the "main attraction", Who is to receive ALL attention, ALL recognition, ALL honor and glory, the ONLY ONE Who is to be exalted over all, as Lord, as Master, as King, as Savior, and as God, the Only King Who is to rule over His Kingdom.

It is recorded in the Scriptures that the Jesus is the One Who created all of creation, and He will rule over His Kingdom Himself, personally, without any assistance from mankind, no matter how important, or how "spiritual" someone deceives himself into thinking he is.

The writings of the Holy Scriptures are without question "spiritual", in that they were literally "breathed out" by God Himself, as a testimony about Himself, and about His plan for the salvation of mankind.

The ultimate purpose and intent of the Scriptures is to testify of God's unimaginable gift of grace, which culminated in the Lord, Who is Spirit, becoming actual human flesh in the One and ONLY unique person of Jesus of Nazareth, in a miracle that is difficult if not impossible to comprehend, as it pertains to the limitations of human understanding.

In order to fully understand what is written in the Holy Scriptures, one must be led by the Holy Spirit to have a "spiritual mind" that is able to comprehend the "spiritual" message which has been dictated by the Lord Himself, in what those who are followers of the Lord Jesus Christ refer to as the "written Word of God".

What this means is that the Bible-based Christian becomes a "spiritual person" when indwelled by the Holy Spirit, and only then is able to grasp the message that God Himself desires for all of mankind to receive, equally, without favoritism, without prejudice, without any self-perceived "chosen elite" status, as it pertains to what some have attempted to establish as "clean" versus "unclean", supposedly requiring segregation of one "special" group of people from another.

You must have the Scriptural Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you before one can have a "spiritual mind". In other words, one must have the mind of Christ, according to what is recorded in the Holy Scriptures, before one can even begin to fully comprehend the spiritual writings of the Bible.

On the other hand, those Rudometkinites who are the zealous followers of their dead hero and "new" spiritual leader, M. G. Rudometkin, can truly also be categorized as "spiritual" individuals, but the difference is that these individuals are indwelled by a "spirit" which is NOT God, nor is it a "spirit" that has been sent by God to His children, to those who are the true believers and true followers of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is for this reason that those who are the followers of Rudometkin, and the heresies that are written in the Spirit and Life book, neither understand nor comprehend the true context of what has been recorded in the Holy Scriptures.

It is this confusion that we see in the responses of fourvetta and the other Rudometkinites here on the internet, who are not "spiritual" in the Biblical sense of the meaning, but whose "spirituality" is inspired by the new spirit that Rudometkin introduced them to.

Satan, as the great deceiver that he is, appeals to the ego of man, and in this way, he has appealed to Rudometkin and his followers to believe that Rudometkin's writings are somehow "deeper" spiritual writings, thereby elevating the high-mindedness of the Rudometkinites to believe that they are somehow "more spiritual", and therefore allegedly "favored" by God, when in fact, as we can see by the responses of fourvetta and the other Rudometkinites on this forum, the followers of Rudometkin are woefully lacking in the most basic "spiritual" understanding of what is written in the Bible.

What has become most obvious to those of us who are indwelled by the Holy Spirit is that Rudometkin, his writings, and his attempts to "explain" what is recorded in the Bible, as presented by fourvetta and the other Rudometkinites, are a patchwork of foolish nonsense inspired by Satan, in order to deceive as many people that he can.

As Rudometkin himself tells his followers in the Spirit and Life book, the "spirit" that the Rudometkinites have received, and follow, is NOT the same as the Holy Spirit dwelling within those Molokans who are the Scripture-based Christians.

The Spirit indwelling the Molokan Christians is obviously the Holy Spirit that is described in the Bible.

On the other hand, the "spirit" that was introduced by Rudometkin is clearly a different spirit, a new spirit, which is evil in the sight of God, as are the writings in the Spirit and Life book.

.

fourvetta · April 1, 2007

The Spirit indwelling the Molokan Christians is obviously the Holy Spirit that is described in the Bible.

On the other hand, the "spirit" that was introduced by Rudometkin is clearly a different spirit, a new spirit, which is evil in the sight of God, as are the writings in the Spirit and Life book.

24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Grace · April 2, 2007

The Spirit indwelling the Molokan Christians is obviously the Holy Spirit that is described in the Bible.

On the other hand, the "spirit" that was introduced by Rudometkin is clearly a different spirit, a new spirit, which is evil in the sight of God, as are the writings in the Spirit and Life book.

24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Fourvetta,

Your Biblical quote is speaking about Jesus and his disciples being accused by the Pharisees that they were operating under the power of Beelzebub. We know that Jesus and his disciples were anointed by the Holy Spirit of God.

The Holy Spirit is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Why does Rudometkin introduce a "new" spirit and a "new" pathway?

Our Christian Molokan forefathers already had the "same" Holy Spirit that was in Jesus and his disciples because they had believed the gospel ("good news") recorded in the Bible, which caused them to come away from heretical teachings and practices.

Why a "new" spirit and a "new" pathway?

Grace

fourvetta · April 2, 2007

Your Biblical quote is speaking about Jesus and his disciples being accused by the Pharisees that they were operating under the power of Beelzebub. We know that Jesus and his disciples were anointed by the Holy Spirit of God.

The Holy Spirit is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

People are the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. The grave will be the judge between the living and the dead.

The Pharisees said to the blind man who was healed;

24 So for the second time they called the man who had been blind and said to him, "Give glory to God. We know that this man is a sinner."

25 He answered, "Whether he is a sinner I do not know. One thing I do know, that though I was blind, now I see."

26 They said to him, "What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?"

27 He answered them, "I have told you already, and you would not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become his disciples?"

28 And they reviled him, saying, "You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.

29 We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this man, we do not know where he comes from."

30 The man answered, "Why, this is an amazing thing! You do not know where he comes from, and yet he opened my eyes.

31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.

32Never since the world began has it been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a man born blind.

33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing."

34 They answered him, "You were born in utter sin, and would you teach us?" And they cast him out.

Grace · April 2, 2007

Your Biblical quote is speaking about Jesus and his disciples being accused by the Pharisees that they were operating under the power of Beelzebub. We know that Jesus and his disciples were anointed by the Holy Spirit of God.

The Holy Spirit is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

People are the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. The grave will be the judge between the living and the dead.

The Pharisees said to the blind man who was healed;

24 So for the second time they called the man who had been blind and said to him, "Give glory to God. We know that this man is a sinner."

25 He answered, "Whether he is a sinner I do not know. One thing I do know, that though I was blind, now I see."

26 They said to him, "What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?"

27 He answered them, "I have told you already, and you would not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become his disciples?"

28 And they reviled him, saying, "You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.

29 We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this man, we do not know where he comes from."

30 The man answered, "Why, this is an amazing thing! You do not know where he comes from, and yet he opened my eyes.

31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.

32Never since the world began has it been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a man born blind.

33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing."

34 They answered him, "You were born in utter sin, and would you teach us?" And they cast him out.

Fourvetta,

You have highlighted the fact that the Pharisees claimed to be disciples of Moses. Yeah.....but how does that answer my question: "Why the 'new' spirit? Why the 'new' pathway?"

(It would be helpful for me if, after you quote Scripture, you explain how it pertains to our dialogue.)

Thank you.

Grace

fourvetta · April 2, 2007

You have highlighted the fact that the Pharisees claimed to be disciples of Moses. Yeah.....but how does that answer my question: "Why the 'new' spirit? Why the 'new' pathway?"

(It would be helpful for me if, after you quote Scripture, you explain how it pertains to our dialogue.)

You have basically said the same thing the scribes and the Pharisees said at that time.

"We know the the Holy Spirit was upon Moses and that he talked personally with God. But why the New Light, New Way and the New Path to the Father? The first commandment says you shall have no other God's beside Me."

They were not Moses disciples even though they claimed to be. Moses said, "A Prophet like unto myself shall the Lord raise up from your brethren. Him you shall obey in all things."

Christ said, "Let them listen to Moses and the Prophets. If they will not hear them, they will not listen to Me."

The Jews were blind to the light that shined in the face of Christ. "His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength." Just as they were blind to the light that shined in the face of Moses. Apostle Paul seen that light and was blind for three days. John in Revelation 1 seen that light and fell down as if dead.

But God is the one who reveals His light to whom He will.

Even though the evidence is there for every person. From the time we wake up to the rising of the sun in the morning , to it's setting in the evening.

Men are the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Even God Himself cannot save a unbeliever, but He is not willing that anybody should perish.

As Apostle Paul tells us, "Without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

The Lord is Spirit and those who worship God must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

Grace · April 4, 2007

You have highlighted the fact that the Pharisees claimed to be disciples of Moses. Yeah.....but how does that answer my question: "Why the 'new' spirit? Why the 'new' pathway?"

(It would be helpful for me if, after you quote Scripture, you explain how it pertains to our dialogue.)

You have basically said the same thing the scribes and the Pharisees said at that time.

"We know the the Holy Spirit was upon Moses and that he talked personally with God. But why the New Light, New Way and the New Path to the Father? The first commandment says you shall have no other God's beside Me."

They were not Moses disciples even though they claimed to be. Moses said, "A Prophet like unto myself shall the Lord raise up from your brethren. Him you shall obey in all things."

Christ said, "Let them listen to Moses and the Prophets. If they will not hear them, they will not listen to Me."

The Jews were blind to the light that shined in the face of Christ. "His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength." Just as they were blind to the light that shined in the face of Moses. Apostle Paul seen that light and was blind for three days. John in Revelation 1 seen that light and fell down as if dead.

But God is the one who reveals His light to whom He will.

Even though the evidence is there for every person. From the time we wake up to the rising of the sun in the morning , to it's setting in the evening.

Men are the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Even God Himself cannot save a unbeliever, but He is not willing that anybody should perish.

As Apostle Paul tells us, "Without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

The Lord is Spirit and those who worship God must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

Fourvetta,

Actually, my question to you is very different from the questions the Scribes and the Pharisees asked Jesus because of the time and context in which they were asking versus my question to you today in 2007.

All of the Old Testament prophecies pointed the Jews to the coming Messiah --- the One "whose sandals no one is worthy to untie." The Scribes and Pharisees in Jesus' day were taking pride in the fact that they obeyed the Mosaic laws, which in truth, were not Moses' laws but God's. The Scribes and Pharisees were so very careful to follow "Moses" that they failed to recognize the true Messiah.

Instead of fixing their eyes on God, the Pharisees focused on Moses --- a mere man --- a servant of God. In this way, "men are the same yesterday, today and tomorrow." Mankind has a propensity for sin. The natural man always seems to gravitate toward sinfulness rather than righteousness. Mankind ends up worshipping the creation rather than the Creator.

My question to you is wholly different because the "true" Messiah has come! He is not a generic prefigurement as perhaps Moses could be considered. The "true" Messiah is God in the flesh, Emanuel, Who fulfilled all Old Testament prophecies--- He is the Creator of Moses! The context of my question is entirely different because it is asked AFTER Jesus lived, died and resurrected.

So, since Jesus is the "culmination" and "end all" to every prophecy and since He is THE way, THE truth, and THE life....

"Why Rudometkin's 'new' spirit, and 'new' pathway?"

Jesus' earthly life, death, and resurrection mark the beginning of the New Covenant wherein Jesus is the only Mediator. After His ascension, He sent the Holy Spirit Who indwells believers. No need for any other covenants, no more prefigurements or for that matter, "post-figurements".

The institution of the New Covenant between God and mankind took place in approximately 33-34 A.D. The Church, made up of all Christ-followers, was born. Nowhere in the Old or New Testaments does it say that there will be any more messiahs other than Jesus Christ, nor does it say there will be any other covenants between God and mankind.

On the other hand, MGR was born, lived and died in the 1800s. That would put MGR's life and death at about seventeen hundred and fifty years after Jesus walked on earth, was crucified and resurrected. It has been approximately seventeen hundred and fifty years since the Holy Spirit was sent to indwell Christian believers. Seventeen hundred and fifty years of Christians from every nation, tribe and tongue, who have been indwelled by the Holy Spirit, having the mind of Christ and glorifying God by their Christian lives/witness/testimony.

Fourvetta, do you not recognize that MGR is only one of thousands of men [and a few women] who have "claimed" a post-Christ "messiahship" even though the true Messiah, the true Shepherd is on His Heavenly throne and indwells His believers via the Holy Spirit?

Each one of these false "messiahs" claims a dream, or a vision, or an angelic visitation, or a prophecy, or a coronation, or astral projection--- you name it --- anything "supernatural" they can use to attach to themselves an aura of mystery...a mysticism that attempts to pass itself off as a "deeper", more profound understanding than what has already been given by God (much like the Kabbalists or Illuminati).

These spiritual "gurus" use the name of Jesus freely, but their inspiring spirit is always exposed because of its rotten fruit. Typically (and predictably) it always boils down to the same mumbo jumbo rhetoric from these messianic wannabes:

1. "I'm more special than you because I have been chosen by God to restore the true faith."

2. "I have a truth that no one else has [in other words, the Bible is not enough--- Jesus is not enough]."

3. "Because I've been chosen and I'm special (like King David and King Solomon), I am also a "king" and therefore I am entitled to:

a) more than one wife

b) virgins for populating the kingdom

c) your servitude

d) your devotion/adoration/worship

e) the royal crown, designer clothes, Rolls Royce, mansion, Rolex¦etc., etc., etc.

Fourvetta, you and I can go down through the centuries of recorded history and find these religious "whackos." Most of these "whackos" really believed they were chosen by God. Frequently, because they bought into this lie with such zeal, they ended up suffering a type of martyrdom that is nothing short of tragic!

They suffered and died for "their" faith but unfortunately, it was not "the one faith in Jesus". Theirs was a "faith in the dream", "faith in the prophecy", "faith in the angelic visitation", etc., etc., etc."

In short: the "angel of light" deceived them. The "angel of light" did the same thing in the Garden of Eden. The "angel of light" appealed to the ego of mankind, puffing them up in their own minds, and poisoning them into thinking more highly of themselves than they should. (Same "snake oil", different wannabe.)

The problem with MGR today and in every previous "spiritual guru" scenario throughout history is this:

In essence and practice, deceived minds do not believe that God is enough. Somehow in their puffed up minds, God's provision for salvation is somehow inadequate. Do you recognize that this is the ultimate lie from Hell?

Do you recognize that MGR and his self-proclaimed "messiahship" is the same lie? (2 Corinthians 11:3, 4, 13, 14, 15)

In your last post to me, your last sentence is this:

"The Lord is Spirit and those who worship God must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth."

And I say to you, those people who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their only Messiah do not have the Holy Spirit. They may look and act religious and even use Jesus' name, but they do not have the Holy Spirit. Since they do not have the Holy Spirit, there can be no God-given truth in them.

So here's my question, reframed: Since the Bible teaches us that Jesus is the "true" Messiah and that he is the Way, the Truth, and the Life....that there is no other name under heaven by which man can be saved....

Why MGR's "new" spirit and "new" pathway?

Thank you.

Grace

Grace · April 12, 2007

Is there any follower of M. G. Rudometkin who is willing to answer my question: "Why MGR's 'new' spirit -- why his 'new' pathway?"

(If this is a difficult question with a complex answer, maybe one of the S&L class teachers would be willing to come on the forum to explain it.)

Thank you.

Grace

steadfast · April 12, 2007

Is there any follower of M. G. Rudometkin who is willing to answer my question: "Why MGR's 'new' spirit -- why his 'new' pathway?"

(If this is a difficult question with a complex answer, maybe one of the S&L class teachers would be willing to come on the forum to explain it.)

Thank you.

Grace

Font size is great, but wrong color. You hurt their feelings, now they won't talk. Thats it I'm sure.

fourvetta · April 12, 2007

Is there any follower of M. G. Rudometkin who is willing to answer my question: "Why MGR's 'new' spirit -- why his 'new' pathway?"

(If this is a difficult question with a complex answer, maybe one of the S&L class teachers would be willing to come on the forum to explain it.)

Thank you.

Grace

Quite simple.

For the announcement of the newly come age. The thousand year kingdom of God upon the earth.

steadfast · April 13, 2007

Is this one of the "New Paths" taught by the "New Spirit" aka "King of Spirits" aka Maxim Gavrilovich Rudometkin?

12. Just before the beginning, or at the beginning, of the age of Jacob, two steamships will leave to cross the impassable ocean: one for twenty years and the other for seventeen.

13. Then God will lift the boundaries of the ocean. Then they (the steamships) will return to their own homeland, and thereafter will travel back and forth.

14. There is much land there, and there are people. And it is the land of the living ---they do not die, but are transformed every hundred years. EGK article 5: 12-14 - Page 639 s&l D.H.S. edition 1983

Fourvetta, If this were true, why didn`t Jesus teach it this way?

coffee · April 15, 2007

.

Regarding:

Is there any follower of M. G. Rudometkin who is willing to answer my question: "Why MGR's 'new' spirit -- why his 'new' pathway?"

(If this is a difficult question with a complex answer, maybe one of the S&L class teachers would be willing to come on the forum to explain it.)

Thank you.

Grace

Whoa! Grace! What did you expect?

You asked a question that for the student of the Bible, there is only one obvious answer. However, this answer is something which in my experience, any loyal and zealous follower of Rudometkin will never admit to, and we should all know that by now.

Rudometkinites admittedly are not students of the Bible. Instead, the alternative they hold dear to is "daystviyah", the "activity of the spirit", which was the new spirit that was prevalent among the Khlysty Jumpers and Leapers in Russia, and which the current crop of Rudometkinites today mistakenly assume to be their "the spirit of prophecy".

From Rudometkin:

Now read of the judgment sentence for the blessed and the accursed, which will extend forever upon those that believe, and those who do not believe, this new Spirit, or God the Spirit and Its activity

in the form of skipping and dancing....

(Spirit and Life book, Page 542, Book 11, Article 15, Verses 1-5)

As we have witnessed from the responses made here on the internet, those who are Rudometkin's followers refer to the Bible as the "dead letter", and they often scoff at it as if it were something "shallow", as if it were mere "child's play", something "elementary", something for the "spiritually immature".

As fourvetta has stated, he is a student of Rudometkin, a student of what is written in the Spirit and Life book, a student of the one who the Rudometkinites revere as their hero and "king of spirits".

A summons into the new Kingdom of peace of our Lord Jesus Christ, of all generations and peoples alike. Let each heed - those that have ears - and with them, listen well to that which my new Spirit evangelizes in new fiery tongues, to all of you, regarding the promised peace for a thousand years. Amen. (M. G. Rudometkin, Spirit and Life book, Page 352, Book 6, Article 17, beginning paragraph)

[in context, Rudometkin is speaking about HIS, meaning Rudometkin's "new spirit", not the Holy Spirit of God.]

Here I [Rudometkin], the new Youlia-Yar, am telling you then all that was bestowed upon me to reveal to you about myself and my new spirit, which every minute teaches me that I must blaze for you a new pathway to Paradise. (Page 326, Book 5, Article 20, Introduction)

[in context, Rudometkin's testimony is about HIMSELF and HIS "new spirit", and his witness is about HIS "new pathway" to God, neither one of which testifies or bears witness about the Lord Jesus Christ.]

I [Rudometkin] wish to reveal all of this for you the New Israel, in these same lines, and show all of you truly the new path of the King my God, and the eternal procession of it. (Page 508, Book 10, Article 18, Verse 3)

[According to the Scriptures, the Lord Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. For the Bible-based Christian, Jesus is our Leader, our Lord, our Master, our King, our Savior, our Everything. His "path" is that which leads to salvation and eternal life with Him.

The "Way" to get on this "pathway" to God has been given to all of mankind, without showing favoritism of any kind, by what has been recorded in the Holy Scriptures. Jesus cannot be any more clear when He declares that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and that there is no access to God the Father except through Him.

Any attempt to introduce some kind of alleged "new path" is to deviate from what has been established by God in the Bible.]

For this you will be rewarded by me [by Rudometkin] with eternal life, and the Kingdom of peace of our Lord Jesus Christ, upon this good land for a thousand years.

Moreover, you will truly be given all of this from me, if only you justly fulfill my will in the Spirit.

Meanwhile I, first of all, will clothe myself in garments of scarlet, and then....

I shall place a crown of gold upon my head.... (Page 352, Book 6, Article 17, Verses 1-13)

[in context, more foolish Khlystical nonsense, heresy that Rudometkin brought over from his Khlysty forefathers and introduced to gullible and Biblically illiterate Molokans in Russia, who became more infatuated with "activity of the spirit" than remaining steadfast in the knowledge of what is recorded in the written Word of God.]

Grace, the answer to your question is that Rudometkin was deceived by Satan's unclean spirit to believe that he was somehow going to have an integral role in the implementation and supervision of God`s 1,000 Year Kingdom.

More foolish nonsense from Rudometkin:

For my newly-wondrous narrative has never been heard anywhere on earth by anyone throughout the ages, which I reveal to you here by a new Spirit for the welfare of your entire soul and body. (Page 494, Book 10, Article 5, Verse 4)

The Paradise of paradises, the camp of the saints, the village of Nikitino and all who are joined together with it, who today are everywhere to be found in my new Spirit,

In this Spirit I learned the great mystery of my God, in all the new languages,

And each one who refuses to remain in this new Spirit of mine, that soul will be cut off from the assembly of my holy people and the beloved city.

(Pages 574-576, Book 13, Article 1, Verses 5-7 and Book 13, Article 2, Verse 11)

The Only True Spirit, and the Only True Pathway to God, both lead to the Lord Jesus Christ, and to a direct, personal relationship with Him, without any other mediator, without any other intervention of any other priest, without any other self-proclaimed "messiah", or any other so-called latter day "king".

Rudometkin's new spirit, and Rudometkin's new pathway, both LEAD TO RUDOMETKIN as a counterfeit and fraudulent "christ", which is a perpetuation of the heretical belief system that Rudometkin's own Khlysty forefathers practiced.

Rudometkin was deceived into thinking that he was so important that he actually believed he was able to "reward" his followers with eternal life, and as so-called evidence of his purported "authority", he promised to coronate himself with a crown of gold.

How about that, a self-proclaimed "king" who was so important to himself that he even coronated HIMSELF, based on the authority that he had given himself, complete with his own new spirit, and his own new pathway to whichever unclean spirit Rudometkin claimed to be his "god" at the moment.

And Rudometkin's followers continue to follow him today, 130 years after his death. Mindboggling is it not? All because the Rudometkinites refuse to submit to the Biblical authority of the Lord Jesus Christ, all because they choose to follow Rudometkin's new spirit and Rudometkin's new pathway, instead of following the Biblical Holy Spirit, which testifies that Jesus Christ is Lord and God.

According to what is written in the Bible, in 2 Peter 1:3-4, God has granted us ALL THINGS that pertain to LIFE AND GODLINESS, through the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, the one who becomes a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ is lacking in NOTHING, as it pertains to our access to God, to our receipt of the indwelling Holy Spirit, and to our knowledge of the Lord's pathway to life and godliness.

And yet, we have those within our Molokan churches, especially elders, who defend and protect the Spirit and Life book, and the writings of some Biblically illiterate heretic who dares make the arrogant statement that what had been revealed to him had supposedly "never been heard anywhere on earth by anyone throughout the ages", and that his so-called "revelations" were revealed to his followers "which I reveal to you here by a new Spirit" for the welfare of your entire soul and body (Page 494, Book 10, Article 5, Verse 4).

Grace, if you are waiting for any other kind of answer besides the childish, foolish nonsense which fourvetta continues to respond with, you are in for a long wait.

.

seeking_truth_1 · October 31, 2009

Praise the Lord stevepiv IS NOT the same person today!

anonymous · November 1, 2009

Praise the Lord stevepiv IS NOT the same person today!

AMEN!!!

stevepiv · February 16, 2010

I Thank God for His Patience, Grace, Mercy, Love and the Double Edged Sword, The Word of God and the Blood of THE LAMB Jesus Christ to wash away the filth that covered me. The sinfulness, the pride, disobedience to God, addiction, immorality, truly I am a wretch and slave to sin without Jesus Christ.

Today, I Praise God for what he has done and is doing and will do in my life. I praise Him for opening my eyes and for these brothers and sisters on the forum that were up front and used God's Word against the strongholds that satan had me bound to.

I was deceived in thinking that the S&L has some secrets of God and that the Molokans are the Only ones, and that learning russian, ctixee, standing up for religion, is what this life is about. I was trying to sew the veil that ripped when Jesus gave up His spirit on the Cross.

Doing all the Religion rituals never brought me into a closer relationship with Jesus Christ. I never thought He was approachable.

But, Jesus showed Himself to me, by reading the Scriptures and feeling the pull from my Lord to come unto Him. The few weeks of July-August 2008 is when I was called by God.

I am set free by the Son Jesus Christ, yet I am Bondservant to His Will in my life.

Thank You Lord Jesus Christ!

Thank you coffee, seeking_truth, anaikanosis, anonymous, little koshka, steadfast, poopsqually, Grace, wall, GoodDay and the newer brothers and sisters (Kevin Naz, Disciple and others not on the forum) the Lord is leading me to fellowship with. You ALL Loved me and were stern with me and care about my soul.

Jesus Christ wants a personal relationship with each of us. Each human being was created by God for a purpose in Life. We are not called to follow a group of men or a particular group and hope they are getting it right.

Come unto The Son Jesus Christ and He will not cast you away. Come to Him knowing that I, you and all men have sinned and have fallen short of the Glory of God. Know that the wages of Sin is death. But the Gift of God is Eternal Life in Jesus Christ Our Lord. Ask for Him to forgive you of your past, present, future sins and Repent of those sins, turn away from them, put your Faith in Jesus Christ and in Him Alone. Ask Jesus Christ to be fill you with The Holy Spirit and read your Bible daily.

1st Timothy 1:12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

little koshka · February 17, 2010

How many people - church leaders, elders, almost elders, and young adults actually know what is in this book Spirit & Life (aside from the "history" and "procedure" parts)?

How many have actually opened it and have seen the questionable passages for themselves?

How many know how many of these questionable passages are actually in the book?

How many know what these questionable passages mean - the origins of the (proper) names, claims, words, and phrases?

How many actually know about the dominance of this Spirit & Life book and what is has been doing to the churches and the community?

How many people - especially the young adults are aware of this book's existence and what it means to their spiritual well being?

How many Christian parents would let their (say) jr. high or high school aged children read this book - just to read?

After discovering what is actually in that book and talking about it openly - facts only, what would the reaction be?

I wonder.

stevepiv · February 17, 2010

How many people - church leaders, elders, almost elders, and young adults actually know what is in this book Spirit & Life (aside from the "history" and "procedure" parts)?

The History is from pages 3-64

Procedures is pages 709-743

So, it's not all about history and procedures like many people think.

GoodDay · February 17, 2010

Sadly many think that when their Molokan kid marries another Molokan kids their Spiritual Well being is strong and intact.

As long as the couple goes with the flow and has no real problems than all appears good. Many couples find out what is really going on once they run into some real issues that need Christian Elder-ship help and they find out there is none.

The "elders" can help if it is about a song tune or a prayer memory question or about traditional stuff. But when it comes to real issues that arise in life, they are for the most part not able to help and then when the couple or person goes out and seeks help in another place or another church that has Christ centered help, the elders look down upon them.

"Pray harder" or "come to church more," are not the answers that many people need to hear when they fall into the world's troubles.

It Helps To Read What Rudometkin Wrote In The S & L

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